Societal collapse predicted by MIT (in 1972)

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

You can also find out that the earth is flat and that NASA faked the moon landings.

[F250 28777]

5 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Sure, but that's a lot of words to say people can't do shit with their own 2 hands anymore.  

The point is that it's not worth the cost of learning to do things with our own hands anymore. Unless you are poor.

 

 

[F250 28777]

Borked

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by F250

[Trey3216 15346]

5 minutes ago, F250 said:

The point is that it's not worth the cost of learning to do things with our own hands anymore. Unless you are poor.

 

 

If we ever actually have societal breakdown, I'll have a nice list of people to acquire things from.  

[F250 28777]

1 hour ago, Trey3216 said:

If we ever actually have societal breakdown, I'll have a nice list of people to acquire things from.  

So I take it you are poor and looking forward to the collapse of society so that you can commence with the looting?

 

 

 

[Trey3216 15346]

7 minutes ago, F250 said:

So I take it you are poor and looking forward to the collapse of society so that you can commence with the looting?

 

 

 

Nah.  Won't be looting.  Just know how to do some shit with my hands that only poor people know how to do apparently.  It'll be easier for me to get by if shit broke down than it would be for those that don't know how to keep potatoes and chickens alive, or how to take apart and fix a weapon/fishing rod, reload ammo, etc.  But, I'll be patient and help fix your shit for a hell of an ask.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 hours ago, utee94 said:

This is all true to a certain point, but there's a flipside to it as well.  15 years ago I was looking at a Haynes manual or a Chilton's manual to figure out how to change my engine thermostat or replace a headlight.  Now I can find videos all over Youtube showing me exactly how to do it, and likely on my exact same model and year and maybe even color of my vehicle.  Same is true for all sorts of other practical hands-on manual tasks that I'd have had to do a lot of research in repair guides or building manuals, previously. That's an example of informational technological enablement that has been positive and productive.  

I don't think it balances out in total, so in general I still agree with your point, but as an electrical engineer and technologist, I had to point out at least one positive counter-argument.

 

 

 

Oh for damn sure you tube videos are a godsend.  

This is straying from one of my points though. We'd lose power as a kid and it wasn't a big deal. Today it's a national crisis with people losing their shit.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[Brisketexan 105151]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh for damn sure you tube videos are a godsend.  

This is straying from one of my points though. We'd lose power as a kid and it wasn't a big deal. Today it's a national crisis with people losing their shit.  

When I was a kid, we'd lose power......for a few hours.  Not a few days.  While the temperatures were at levels below which human life cannot be sustained.  

Hundreds of people died, and it's not because they were weak or lazy.  It's because it was 7 degrees, and human beings, particularly in Texas, do not have the mechanisms/tools/clothing etc. to survive those temperatures for extended periods of time (again, DAYS).

So, yeah, if it kills people, it's kind of a big deal.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

When I was a kid, we'd lose power......for a few hours.  Not a few days.  While the temperatures were at levels below which human life cannot be sustained.  

Hundreds of people died, and it's not because they were weak or lazy.  It's because it was 7 degrees, and human beings, particularly in Texas, do not have the mechanisms/tools/clothing etc. to survive those temperatures for extended periods of time (again, DAYS).

So, yeah, if it kills people, it's kind of a big deal.

Here in the east you could lose power for a few days if there was an ice storm or bad snow storm.  Can't remember reports of mass deaths because we lost power.    Ypu[re also Taki g it to an extreme situation.  People lose their shit now if they don't have AC.  We grew up without AC in the summer till we could afford window units.

[tbone_ 14127]

Global warming yo. Way hotter now.

[atomheartbevo 89685]

25 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

This is straying from one of my points though. We'd lose power as a kid and it wasn't a big deal. Today it's a national crisis with people losing their shit.  

I'm pretty sure it was a big deal to your parents, it's just that they didn't let on.  Your mom was probably worrying about the stuff in the fridge.  Your dad was thinking about how to keep the kids cool or warm.

But it also wasn't in the single-fucking-digits, and your dad wasn't sweating bullets over losing the plumbing, or all of the resulting damage from having a shittily-constructred house  get below freezing on the inside.  Your dad was also not having to collect snow to melt so he could flush the fucking toilets.

[F250 28777]

59 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Nah.  Won't be looting.  Just know how to do some shit with my hands that only poor people know how to do apparently.  It'll be easier for me to get by if shit broke down than it would be for those that don't know how to keep potatoes and chickens alive, or how to take apart and fix a weapon/fishing rod, reload ammo, etc.  But, I'll be patient and help fix your shit for a hell of an ask.  

Prepper mastubatory fantasy.

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89685]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Here in the east you could lose power for a few days if there was an ice storm or bad snow storm.  Can't remember reports of mass deaths because we lost power.    Ypu[re also Taki g it to an extreme situation.  People lose their shit now if they don't have AC.  We grew up without AC in the summer till we could afford window units.

Because houses and infrastructure in the east are built for it.  Their pipes are insulated and houses are built to protect the pipes, etc.  People there have the proper clothing for it.

And yes, people do lose their shit here if they don't have A/C, because the houses these days aren't meant to move air through naturally like the pre-A/C days.

What the fuck Onboard?  Are you basing your samples on one or two houses or places you've lived in?

Do you not understand the difference between houses built after A/C became a thing?  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'm pretty sure it was a big deal to your parents, it's just that they didn't let on.  Your mom was probably worrying about the stuff in the fridge.  Your dad was thinking about how to keep the kids cool or warm.

But it also wasn't in the single-fucking-digits, and your dad wasn't sweating bullets over losing the plumbing, or all of the resulting damage from having a shittily-constructred house  get below freezing on the inside.  Your dad was also not having to collect snow to melt so he could flush the fucking toilets.

I remember it as a kid they would be inconvenienced, but they weren't that worried (Don't open the fridge door !!) Ya'll are taking this to extremes. Losing power for a day or just a few days wasn't a life altering event it was inconvenient, but the reliability of our grid has made us expect it to always work. When things go south people aren't as equipped emotionally in some cases to deal with that, just as people before my generation had a little more more difficult, less technologically easy life.

[atomheartbevo 89685]

Just now, F250 said:

Prepper mastubatory fantasy.

When covid hit and places shut down and people stayed home, we discovered the preppers couldn't go a few weeks without eating at Chili's or getting a fucking haircut.  They lost their fucking minds.

As a child of the '80s, who grew up reading doomsday/World War III pulp novels, I was so fucking disappointed that people who could disassemble and reassemble their firearms blindfolded couldn't figure out how a fucking Flowbee works.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

Because houses and infrastructure in the east are built for it.  Their pipes are insulated and houses are built to protect the pipes, etc.  People there have the proper clothing for it.

And yes, people do lose their shit here if they don't have A/C, because the houses these days aren't meant to move air through naturally like the pre-A/C days.

What the fuck Onboard?  Are you basing your samples on one or two houses or places you've lived in?

Do you not understand the difference between houses built after A/C became a thing?  

They aren't built anymore different today other than better insulation, and insulated glass which don't do shit on hot days with no AC whether you;re in Virginia heat and humidity or Texas heat and Houston humidity.

[atomheartbevo 89685]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I remember it as a kid they would be inconvenienced, but they weren't that worried (Don't open the fridge door !!) Ya'll are taking this to extremes. Losing power for a day or just a few days wasn't a life altering event it was inconvenient, but the reliability of our grid has made us expect it to always work. When things go south people aren't as equipped emotionally in some cases to deal with that, just as people before my generation had a little more more difficult, less technologically easy life.

It's not about emotions or anything.

Back in February, if the snow had melted a few days earlier, people in Austin would have been shitting in their yards.  And not because they were pranking their neighbors.

[Trey3216 15346]

5 minutes ago, F250 said:

Prepper mastubatory fantasy.

 

 

Not that either.    Just find commentary like yours fucking comical.  Spending weeks at a time with my grandad when I was a kid afforded me a lot of life lessons that cannot be unlearned.  If that’s being poor and a prepper, then I’m a wealthy man for it.  Glad you learned how to sign for your cheeseburger on grandad Underhill’s tab. What a gift 

[F250 28777]

25 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Not that either.    Just find commentary like yours fucking comical.  Spending weeks at a time with my grandad when I was a kid afforded me a lot of life lessons that cannot be unlearned.  If that’s being poor and a prepper, then I’m a wealthy man for it.  Glad you learned how to sign for your cheeseburger on grandad Underhill’s tab. What a gift 

lulz I come from a family of ranchers on both sides. I spent enough summers working on a ranch to know that's not the life for me. I live on property not in a suburban neighborhood and have a well and use propane and have a generator. I survived the snowpoacalyse without an issue. Plenty of firearms to keep your looting ass away.

But please tell me how your grampa Fred taught you how to change oil and fix a flat.

 

[Rivers 80]

4 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

You can also find out that the earth is flat and that NASA faked the moon landings.

Oh ya, the Imperial Japanese Navy hooked around New Zealand, hugged the South Artic coast and sailed past Argentina on the way to Hawaii for the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Rivers

[utee94 15825]

I thought that was the Germans?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, F250 said:

The point is that it's not worth the cost of learning to do things with our own hands anymore. Unless you are poor.

 

 

People talk about mental health on here all the time.  Being incapable of doing shit for one’s self has to be a contributing factor, right?

Maybe not, but wholly furk there’s a metric shit ton of folks who can’t do shit.

[F250 28777]

19 minutes ago, slorch said:

People talk about mental health on here all the time.  Being incapable of doing shit for one’s self has to be a contributing factor, right?

Maybe not, but wholly furk there’s a metric shit ton of folks who can’t do shit.

The issue Onboard raised has more to do with the advancement of our society. A capitalist society will become more specialized as the market pushes for more efficiency. More knowledge and effort is required to master a single sub-domain leaving less time to dedicate to learning other things.  That's where the opportunity cost comes into play. If people are already working 40+ hours a week and having to commit to continuous education outside of working hours then it's likely that the opportunity cost of learning to do electrical work is probably too high. It's more efficient to pay an electrician than learn to do it yourself. 

Markets will always push efficiency and efficiency requires specialization. This is a feature of an advanced capitalist society not a bug. Due to the law of comparative advantage John can dedicate his time to becoming specialized in Bird Law while Jane focuses on making artisanal butter  and Tim focuses on figuring out what those god damn error codes mean in John's truck. John can then pay for his artisanal butter and get his truck fixed while advancing the field of Bird Law.

Basically, self sufficiency isn't meant to exist.

 

 

[Guest]

yeah. i don't dispute any of that.

I'm talking about the emotional return/ self-esteem from putting in a  ceiling fan...or a garbage disposal.  Hell i know people who would rather buy a whole new mower than sharpen the fucking blade...for no other reason than they think it's beneath them or too complicated to change it out.

At a certain point a man looks in the mirror and realizes he can't do shit...or has enough money to ease his conscience.

Edited July 20, 2021 by slorch

[Spaulding Smails 1553]

13 minutes ago, slorch said:

yeah. i don't dispute any of that.

I'm talking about the emotional return/ self-esteem from putting in a  ceiling fan...or a garbage disposal.  Hell i know people who would rather buy a whole new mower than sharpen the fucking blade...for no other reason than they think it's beneath them or too complicated to change it out.

At a certain point a man looks in the mirror and realizes he can't do shit...or has enough money to ease his conscience.

Agree completely with both you and @F250.  From a purely rational point, the push of capitalism towards specialization is absolutely correct.  But, the emotional connection is what keeps it in check to a certain degree, at least on an individual basis.  Heck, if it was purely capitalism, then we'd completely lose skills like blacksmithing, wood carving, etc.

Since a teen, I've always wanted to learn as many skills as I could.  Carpentry, welding, electrical, plumbing, cooking, gardening, working on equipment.  I sincerely enjoy the pride of completing a project well.  And, I'll admit that I like being the one that friends and family ask to help, ask to borrow tools from, and ask for advice on how to do things.  I like at least knowing that I COULD do something if I wanted to.  But, I've finally found myself reaching a point of beginning to defer to others for some of these tasks recently.  For example, I had three relatively minor plumbing issues at my house.  I brought my plumber out to take care of it.  We needed a second A-frame at the ranch.  I hired a welder to build it for me.

Five years ago, I would have absolutely done those projects myself.  But, I'm at a point in my professional and personal life where I outsource those occasionally.  I try to at least do the things that are manageable and don't snowball.  I like breaking a good sweat working outside and knocking some things off a list while having something productive to show for it at the end of the day.  I'm not sure a purely capitalistic view can account for that sentiment.  

[F250 28777]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

yeah. i don't dispute any of that.

I'm talking about the emotional return/ self-esteem from putting in a  ceiling fan...or a garbage disposal.  Hell i know people who would rather buy a whole new mower than sharpen the fucking blade...for no other reason than they think it's beneath them or too complicated to change it out.

At a certain point a man looks in the mirror and realizes he can't do shit...or has enough money to ease his conscience.

Opportunity cost, bro. Not everyone gets satisfaction from the same things. A buddy of mine says the same thing about hiking through the Rockies for a month. I feel the same way about sports and fitness, others would say similar things about playing music or collecting shit.

Everyone is different and gets satisfaction from different things. 

While installing a ceiling fan is pretty fucking basic, If I applied my own personal metrics to others I would ask you if you can do 20 chin ups, run 3 miles under 20 minutes and squat twice your body weight 5 times? If not how can you look yourself in the mirror and not be ashamed for being an out of shape slug?

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

Opportunity cost, bro. Not everyone gets satisfaction from the same things. A buddy of mine says the same thing about hiking through the Rockies for a month. I feel the same way about sports and fitness, others would say similar things about playing music or collecting shit.

Everyone is different and gets satisfaction from different things. 

While installing a ceiling fan is pretty fucking basic, If I applied my own personal metrics to others I would ask you if you can do 20 chin ups, run 3 miles under 20 minutes and squat twice your body weight 5 times? If not how can you look yourself in the mirror and not be ashamed for being an out of shape slug?

 

 

 

 

I didn't run a 3 mile in under 20 minutes when I was in the best shape of my life.  LOL Consistently scored 1st class PFT in the Marines.  Only ran a sub 18:00 3 mile run once. ever.  LOL.

 

My statement wasn't nearly as arbitrary as you make it sound.  You're being borderline pedantic/ obtuse.  I'm not the one on happy pills/ needing therapy like so many evidently do.

 

Just saying...

[F250 28777]

14 minutes ago, slorch said:

I didn't run a 3 mile in under 20 minutes when I was in the best shape of my life.  LOL Consistently scored 1st class PFT in the Marines.  Only ran a sub 18:00 3 mile run once. ever.  LOL.

 

My statement wasn't nearly as arbitrary as you make it sound.  You're being borderline pedantic/ obtuse.  I'm not the one on happy pills/ needing therapy like so many evidently do.

 

Just saying...

I am just saying something that is pretty easy to understand. Everyone gets self satisfaction from different things and there is only so much time available to accomplish those things.

What fulfills one person doesn't fulfill another.

Although I would add that your need for therapy should probably be determined by a specialist. Crazy people don't know that they are crazy. lol I am kidding. But seriously crazy people don't know that they are crazy.

 

 

[SHOOTER12 8810]

On 7/14/2021 at 10:37 PM, SA-KC_Horn said:

So...... you old bitches fuck it up for the rest of us.

That's not old... that's whippersnapper territory.