Things not going well in South Africa

[Neonmoon 38,130]

 

Quote

But they swiftly degenerated into looting and destruction, driven by widespread anger over the hardship and inequality that nearly three decades of democracy since the end of apartheid have failed to address.

Half the population lives below the poverty line, according to the latest government figures from 2015, and growing joblessness since the coronavirus pandemic began has left many desperate. Unemployment stood at a record high of 32.6% in the first three months of 2021

This is why the wealth gap is bad. This is why the crime rates goes up when people lose their jobs. This is why social programs are a good thing. 
 

 

[BrickHorn 18,447]

7 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

This is why the wealth gap is bad.

We’ll if only poor people worked 100,000,000 times harder, they’d be as wealthy as Bezos too.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,453]

Anything that might get rid of their quota system for their national sports teams would be good.  If they get A.B. de Villiers and Chris Morris on their T20i World Cup team then RSA = stackted, rest of the world = fuckted.

[Hookah Horns 3,089]

I sympathize with them being pissed off. But people looting, rioting, burning down their own community will never make any goddamn sense to me. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

4 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

I sympathize with them being pissed off. But people looting, rioting, burning down their own community will never make any goddamn sense to me. 

I've questioned this myself, but I have also questioned my own perspective. Other than having been from a low socioeconomic status in the past, my lens has been distorted by a protected class of sorts. I'm now educated, etc and am not facing  32% unemployment and access to a vaccine to stay healthy. In SA specifically, if I understand correctly, the outsiders such as myself that view it from afar miss that corruption (the leader being recently charged with contempt for not appearing on charges) is not something new and fresh with the handover to the ANC, but dates back to the founding of the colony, serving as a barrier to reform. You can't reform without access and certainly without money, and SA appears to be broke with the exception of those well connected few.

So, looting and burning doesn't make sense from my lens (other than that is a sure way to bring the military in to bust heads) but it also appears to follow what Donkey Cigars said on a different thread about having a disregard for life in general. What've I got to lose if I've got nothing? No education, no job, no food, no prospects to escape.

Again, a recipe for rising authoritarianism, nationalism, and fascism for the extremist left or right leader who promises to cure all that.

 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

On 7/16/2021 at 2:51 AM, Hookah Horns said:

I sympathize with them being pissed off. But people looting, rioting, burning down their own community will never make any goddamn sense to me. 

You are right of course. They should be attacking the Capitol instead. Much more effective. But only if they have the support of the president when they do so of course.

[UTDD 362]

I've been there, and am friends with a few people that live there.  It is hard to overstate the shocking level of wealth inequality in that country.  I've seen rich countries and poor ones, but only here have I seen extreme wealth in such close proximity to incredible poverty.  You have a completely different existence (first world versus third world at extreme levels) mere minutes away from each other with specific neighborhoods and schools, etc.  From giant estates with massive land/buildings for horses and such to barely standing tiny huts type of disparity.  

[Neonmoon 38,130]

2 hours ago, UTDD said:

I've been there, and am friends with a few people that live there.  It is hard to overstate the shocking level of wealth inequality in that country.  I've seen rich countries and poor ones, but only here have I seen extreme wealth in such close proximity to incredible poverty.  You have a completely different existence (first world versus third world at extreme levels) mere minutes away from each other with specific neighborhoods and schools, etc.  From giant estates with massive land/buildings for horses and such to barely standing tiny huts type of disparity.  

That is just kindling for riots 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

It's horrible.  The living conditions are non existent. There will be a telephone pole signed with hundreds of wires feeding  into little corrugated tin shacks with a carpet on a dirt floor.  Fleas bite you every step of the way.

The conditions are crowded, and unsanitary. The "school house" we visited in the "informal housing" was an open shipping container with at least 5 layers of carpet piled atop one another. These towns will be right across an interstate from high rises, or perched atop a million dollar view, ocean adjacent hillside.

 

You think racism is bad here....  take a trip to good 'ol SA.

[UTDD 362]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It's horrible.  The living conditions are non existent. There will be a telephone pole signed with hundreds of wires feeding  into little corrugated tin shacks with a carpet on a dirt floor.  Fleas bite you every step of the way.

The conditions are crowded, and unsanitary. The "school house" we visited in the "informal housing" was an open shipping container with at least 5 layers of carpet piled atop one another. These towns will be right across an interstate from high rises, or perched atop a million dollar view, ocean adjacent hillside.

 

You think racism is bad here....  take a trip to good 'ol SA.

Yeah, I have friends that live in Cape Town, which is kind of a nicer area in general compared to a lot of the country.  But if you visit even a large city like Johannesburg, it's shocking to see how close a "rich" area is next to a "poor" one.  Anyone can google South Africa overhead shots rich/poor neighborhoods to see this over and over.  The racism with some people I have met there is literally eye opening, and I've seen some bad stuff here locally.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19,453]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You think racism is bad here....  take a trip to good 'ol SA.

Of course it’s worse there, no one will argue with that.  But I would like to think we have a higher standard than “Hey, we’re not as bad off as South Africa.”

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

10 minutes ago, UTDD said:

Yeah, I have friends that live in Cape Town, which is kind of a nicer area in general compared to a lot of the country.  But if you visit even a large city like Johannesburg, it's shocking to see how close a "rich" area is next to a "poor" one.  Anyone can google South Africa overhead shots rich/poor neighborhoods to see this over and over.  The racism with some people I have met there is literally eye opening, and I've seen some bad stuff here locally.  

Cape Town is definitely the nicer, safer city IMO.  The racism is off the charts with those folks..

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

3 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Of course it’s worse there, no one will argue with that.  But I would like to think we have a higher standard than “Hey, we’re not as bad off as South Africa.”

......

Edited July 18, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[Fudge Nuggets 19,453]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Who even said that ?

You did

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Fudge Nuggets

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

52 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

You did.

 

 

Yeah, sure  because the things people call out as racist here are simply ridiculous at times.  But you do you, and look to disagree with anything I ever post. Hey the sky is blue, and water is wet.  Have at it.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[Fudge Nuggets 19,453]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah, sure  because the things people call out as racist here are simply ridiculous at times.  But you do you and look to agree anything I ever post. Hey the sky is blue, and water is wet.  Have at it.

Little early to be hitting the weed.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

46 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Little early to be hitting the weed.

Uh huh, sure.

[Hookah Horns 3,089]

On 7/16/2021 at 7:14 AM, Mrs Whiggins said:

I've questioned this myself, but I have also questioned my own perspective. Other than having been from a low socioeconomic status in the past, my lens has been distorted by a protected class of sorts. I'm now educated, etc and am not facing  32% unemployment and access to a vaccine to stay healthy. In SA specifically, if I understand correctly, the outsiders such as myself that view it from afar miss that corruption (the leader being recently charged with contempt for not appearing on charges) is not something new and fresh with the handover to the ANC, but dates back to the founding of the colony, serving as a barrier to reform. You can't reform without access and certainly without money, and SA appears to be broke with the exception of those well connected few.

So, looting and burning doesn't make sense from my lens (other than that is a sure way to bring the military in to bust heads) but it also appears to follow what Donkey Cigars said on a different thread about having a disregard for life in general. What've I got to lose if I've got nothing? No education, no job, no food, no prospects to escape.

Again, a recipe for rising authoritarianism, nationalism, and fascism for the extremist left or right leader who promises to cure all that.

 

What's confusing to me is not so much looting, rioting, and arson per se, but when people do it in their own communities. If the SA destruction was all done in the rich communities, I'd say, well, that makes sense. But the burning down of fellow lower class establishments is befuddling.