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Surly Political Windsock Poll 2018

bernorange

By bernorange
in Cloak Room

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Select the option which best fits (public poll)  

115 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you self identify?

    • I am a Republican
      5
    • I am a Democrat
      8
    • I am a Libertarian
      1
    • I am a conservative
      15
    • I am a liberal
      25
    • I am a libertarian (small L - classical liberal)
      17
    • I am a moderate / independent
      29
    • I don't vote
      4
    • I have no guiding ideology / belief system / framework
      4
    • None of the above (please explain with a post)
      7

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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10681

Posted
Posted

I don't know what I am. I want to identify as moderate but I do find myself voting democratic a lot. I am a social liberal, but I do get turned off by Bernie's ideas and he was labled a liberal.

The biggest concerns for me are fiscal responsiblity, anti-coruption, and electoral reform. I think both left and right can agree with these concerns being pressing just not how to implement solutions. I picked moderate since I'm willing to vote with whoever offers the best solutions. 

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

Posted
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1 hour ago, Dick Tremayne said:

I'm happy to give you my thoughts knowing full well that most won't agree and I'm ok with that. First, when someone uses Venezuela as their example of socialism without ever bringing up the Scandinavian countries, I question if they are truly curious or are just trying to score cheap shots. My idea of what our country could and should be looks much more like those countries than it does Venezuela. Second, my personal belief is that capitalism has failed the vast majority of citizens of the United States. There is massive income inequality that continues to get worse. The power and wealth in this country is concentrated with such a small number of people, but they have convinced people that the "American Dream" is real and if you continue to support them and hand over what you have to them, you can achieve it. I also believe that capitalism is morally wrong. Any system that allows on person to be worth ~$130 billion while others can't afford basic necessities is not one that I can reconcile with the idea of right and wrong. A system that requires every decision to take into account the accumulation of as little as one more dollar above any other considerations, is not good. It is not right. I'm not sure if that's what you wanted, but that is a very broad view of my feelings.

+heart reaction, summises my feelings exactly

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Mole

Mole 4320

Posted
Posted

I voted moderate/independent. I tend to value character, deep thinking, and effectiveness over ideology. I found Senator Obama's reasonableness and lack of unusual corruption appealing in '08 but found his ineffectiveness as a president unappealing in '12. Trump and Hilary were both too corrupt for my vote.  I'd love to vote for someone smart, decent, and good at their job, regardless of ideology (within reason).

If nothing major changes, I'll probably vote straight ticket D in November for the first time in my life since I see Trumpism as an existential threat to our country. I'm also a little concerned about the totalitarian bent of a small part of the left wing growing in influence.

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

Posted
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Posted
59 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

... my personal ethos and value statements are informed by a fundamental idea that no men or group of men are in control of me ...

Perhaps not directly, but we all live within constructs that inform/limit/control our lives and there are people that control those constructs.  For example, monetary policy is an extremely powerful tidal force.  Monkeying around with interest rates affects market behaviors and everyone's decision making with respect to housing, real estate, investments, retirement plans, etc.  It wasn't long ago that the Fed was floating trial balloons about implementing NIRP to force people to spend money.  They weren't going to put a gun to your head and say, "spend yo money", but they might create circumstances where you find it's in your best "interest".

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted

Been a Republican since the first Reagan Administration.  I don't always vote though.  Didn't vote for HW Bush the second time('broke read my lips').  Regret my vote for McCain.  Didn't vote for Trump, didn't vote.  

Biggest disappointment in all of this time is the lack of fiscal responsibility, spending or debt growth is now logarithmic.  No cuts of meaning will occur, evar.

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

Posted
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Posted (edited)

So this thread is fading down the page.  The poll got 68 votes as of this post.  The last poll on Shaggy (also 2018 and posted two months ago) had 105 votes.  Is it an indication that the political forum on Surly is less active overall than Shaggy was a couple of months ago?  Perhaps.  Maybe folks just didn't feel like voting/participating.

As of this moment, Surly 2018 poll shows:

~26% Dem/lib vs. ~17% Pub/conservative

Shaggy 2018 poll showed:

~28% Dem/lib vs. ~13% Pub/conservative

It would seem that the results are similar, however, there is a a large contingent of folks self identifying as independent/moderate that, based upon their post history, I would consider left of center.  So far, I would say, yes, Surly politics forum does lean left of center.

Edited by bernorange
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, bernorange said:

The objective data shows a greater balance of left leaning members even without considering the independent/moderate contingent.  Are you retarded or just really, really bad at math?

I can add real good. You somehow left the libertarians out of the right-leaning category. An oversight, I'm sure.

Right-leaning (identified): 34.29%

Left-leaning (identified): 25.72%

And also, your feeling that the moderate category leans left is silly.

Edited by bad_teammate
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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bernorange said:

The objective data shows a greater balance of left leaning members even without considering the independent/moderate contingent.  Are you retarded or just really, really bad at math?

i would argue that he independent/moderate contingent would be more right leaning than left, without doing any analysis on who voted for which. my thinking is that former republicans who are appalled at the current direction of the party are shying away from both that partisan label, and even the misappropriated "conservative" label, as it's been hijacked by the rush limbaugh crazies.

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staboner

staboner 4957

Posted
Posted (edited)

Interesting to see not many votes for "no guiding light or ideology".  I guess thats me

On my part thats not at all apathetic, but rather simply understanding that humans will eventually corrupt everything. All I see (now, and for the last 20 years) is the need for change. I am sure given my adult years are 1995 and onwards - that probably makes me a big jaded with any ideology. 

I would say the right way to have governance is to be a fiscal conservative and to be socially liberal. But I don't see that on the choices there. Maybe Libertarian-ism is teh closest, but too many bat shit crazies in that dimension for me to claim that one. 

Interesting poll. Love the history. 

Edited by staboner
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4043

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i would argue that he independent/moderate contingent would be more right leaning than left, without doing any analysis on who voted for which. my thinking is that former republicans who are appalled at the current direction of the party are shying away from both that partisan label, and even the misappropriated "conservative" label, as it's been hijacked by the rush limbaugh crazies.

While I have no doubt that those people do indeed exist, I think they have a counterpart: the liberal/socialist that's beyond terrified to embrace such a label, due primarily to the very successful propaganda campaign over the last 30-odd years by the right that's aimed to demonize and marginalize such people. It's kinda like in the 30's and 40's when non-religious people called themselves "agnostic"...because they were beyond terrified of using the "atheist" word after being told ridiculous lies by religious people, such as "atheists believe in nothing" or "atheists don't want to be accountable for their sins" or "atheists worship the devil" or "atheists can't know morality" or whatever insipid verbal effluvia they had to endure from a very early age over and over and over again in vast areas of the country. It's no different than what you said, basically. It's no secret that people tend to shy away from admitting shit about themselves out of social pressures. Why else does anyone among us think that Rock Hudson married Phyllis Gates?

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

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1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

i would argue that he independent/moderate contingent would be more right leaning than left, without doing any analysis on who voted for which. ...

I understand your logic, but get back to me after you've had a chance to see who has voted in that category.  I didn't even mention the None of the Above peeps.

I think the "embarrassed right" simply hasn't shown up at all.

 

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26249

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’d argue this forum would be way more conservative if the democrats controlled all three branches of government.

Many of the posters here aren’t really team players, they’re mostly cranky old bastards who would have just written letters to the editor pre-internet.

fif harrumph young fellow.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21098

Posted
Posted
On 5/8/2018 at 10:20 AM, Dick Tremayne said:

Listen, I will never claim to have all of the answers. I appreciate that you seem to be discussing this in good faith. I suppose my answer would be that I strive for something better. Not just for me, not just for my family, but for all Americans. I'm fully willing to admit that it would be difficult and might even be impossible, but if we don't strive for the best for EVERYONE, then what is the point of living in a society?

The entire basis of evolution is the haves and the have nots...this is what we've evolved into.  There's a reason we sit at the top of the food chain...it's not because we've evolved to be altruistic.  And I'm not saying that like it's a good thing.  I'm all for some forms of socialism but if you completely cut out capitalism we are all fucked.  And since I am the American dream that many of you are bashing as a carrot nobody can achieve, I tend to laugh at those people.  My watch I'm wearing cost twice what the house I was born in was worth.  My group sees literally hundreds of patients a day pro bono.  Socialism and capitalism can coexist.  The problem is the morons on the far left treat the word capitalism like it's rape and the shitheads on the far right do the same to the term socialism. 

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Pods

Pods 7526

Posted
Posted

I'd be a moderate/independent tending to caucus with what ever party isn't in power if the GOP hadn't embraced the anti-science/anti-privacy agenda of the religious right so hard. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

The entire basis of evolution is the haves and the have nots...this is what we've evolved into.  There's a reason we sit at the top of the food chain...it's not because we've evolved to be altruistic.  And I'm not saying that like it's a good thing.  I'm all for some forms of socialism but if you completely cut out capitalism we are all fucked.  And since I am the American dream that many of you are bashing as a carrot nobody can achieve, I tend to laugh at those people.  My watch I'm wearing cost twice what the house I was born in was worth.  My group sees literally hundreds of patients a day pro bono.  Socialism and capitalism can coexist.  The problem is the morons on the far left treat the word capitalism like it's rape and the shitheads on the far right do the same to the term socialism. 

What if you had a watch that only cost as much as the house you were born in and people didn't have to beg for their lives on a GoFundMe page?

You're right about capitalism and socialism not being entirely antithetical. There can be nuance to the idea of popular ownership of the means of production, and honestly in that nuance there are good conversations to be had.

However, at the base, we have to acknowledge that extreme wealth is profoundly destructive.

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2718

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’d argue this forum would be way more conservative if the democrats controlled all three branches of government.

Many of the posters here aren’t really team players, they’re mostly autonomous critics of those in power.

Some even get paid to post shit all day long, everyday

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2718

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i would argue that he independent/moderate contingent would be more right leaning than left, without doing any analysis on who voted for which. my thinking is that former republicans who are appalled at the current direction of the party are shying away from both that partisan label, and even the misappropriated "conservative" label, as it's been hijacked by the rush limbaugh crazies.

Hugo, Judge, and Subliminal all voted as moderate, independents.  The capacity for introspection is limited among those three, apparently.

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F250

F250 28680

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Posted
2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

The entire basis of evolution is the haves and the have nots...this is what we've evolved into.  There's a reason we sit at the top of the food chain...it's not because we've evolved to be altruistic.  And I'm not saying that like it's a good thing.  I'm all for some forms of socialism but if you completely cut out capitalism we are all fucked.  And since I am the American dream that many of you are bashing as a carrot nobody can achieve, I tend to laugh at those people.  My watch I'm wearing cost twice what the house I was born in was worth.  My group sees literally hundreds of patients a day pro bono.  Socialism and capitalism can coexist.  The problem is the morons on the far left treat the word capitalism like it's rape and the shitheads on the far right do the same to the term socialism. 

Yeah, something about a mixed economy and shit.

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26249

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

The entire basis of evolution is the haves and the have nots...this is what we've evolved into.  There's a reason we sit at the top of the food chain...it's not because we've evolved to be altruistic.  And I'm not saying that like it's a good thing.  I'm all for some forms of socialism but if you completely cut out capitalism we are all fucked.  And since I am the American dream that many of you are bashing as a carrot nobody can achieve, I tend to laugh at those people.  My watch I'm wearing cost twice what the house I was born in was worth.  My group sees literally hundreds of patients a day pro bono.  Socialism and capitalism can coexist.  The problem is the morons on the far left treat the word capitalism like it's rape and the shitheads on the far right do the same to the term socialism. 

You were born in a house?

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21098

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

What if you had a watch that only cost as much as the house you were born in and people didn't have to beg for their lives on a GoFundMe page?

You're right about capitalism and socialism not being entirely antithetical. There can be nuance to the idea of popular ownership of the means of production, and honestly in that nuance there are good conversations to be had.

However, at the base, we have to acknowledge that extreme wealth is profoundly destructive.

Huh?  I'd never end up where I was today if I wasn't able to at least strive for this watch.  I've also done work with the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and I'll guarantee you he's put his money to much better use than the fucking government would have.  Also in socialism we would work together as a country and to hell with everyone else - those are facts.  The wealthy in this country are able to serve those in third world 'shitholes' as well.   

Sorry, but your version of the world is completely unrealistic and bullshit.  No matter what we'll always have those that do better than others.  I'll agree on us limiting the discrepancy between the poor and rich however we can but pure socialism and pure capitalism are both completely unrealistic.  And as others pointed out, we already have socialist programs - they may suck and could be better but they're there...

Now excuse me while I go enjoy a few of the finer things in life - guilt free motherfuckers. 

Edited by ChiTownDoc
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SaucyJack

SaucyJack 3487

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2018 at 9:58 AM, RDCanecutter said:

I want multiple local passenger trains with machine-gun turrets on top of them. I am constantly disappointed.

You were prolly born to late.

 

landscape-1440092777-nazitrain.jpg?resiz

Edited by SaucyJack
Apologies to Chad Fuck
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Huh?  I'd never end up where I was today if I wasn't able to at least strive for this watch.

1) is that true?

2) so?

Is the choice, in your mind, (A) unlimited wealth concentration at the top and (B) no one can have anything nice?

Quote

 I've also done work with the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and I'll guarantee you he's put his money to much better use than the fucking government would have. 

That is laughable on its face.

Quote

Also in socialism we would work together as a country and to hell with everyone else - those are facts.  The wealthy in this country are able to serve those in third world 'shitholes' as well.   

That doesn't make any sense. You're talking about how paying for mosquito nets in nations whose wealth has been systematically exported to the West for centuries are being served by the extreme wealth of the West. You're babbling, my man.

 

Quote

I'll agree on us limiting the discrepancy between the poor and rich however we can but pure socialism and pure capitalism are both completely unrealistic. 

OK why are you pounding your chest angrily like a bourgeoise gorilla? lol

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21098

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Posted

BadTeammate, you crack my shit up, brother. 

I can beat up your arguments countless different ways but you acting like the government can do more good than the Bill/Melinda Gates foundation is just laughable on so many levels.  I should give all that money to you and Trump then watch the world blossom.  LOL

Newsflash: the government is corrupt (not matter your team)...dedicated private citizens can do much more good.  Let me guess, you want a dictator - as long as he's one that suits you?  LOL  Grow up, this is the real world.  

I've had half a bottle of Pappy, so I won't argue the finer points.  

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SpiralOut

SpiralOut 1809

Posted
Posted

My political philosophy is pretty simple.  Leave people the fuck alone.  Too many motherfuckers around thinking they know best and who are really just accumulating power so they can steal from and fuck over everyone else.

Government (federal) promises the moon and fails miserably in every regard.  Spend trillions on schools/education?  Kids dumber than shit.  Spend trillions on combating illegal drugs?  More people do drugs than ever before and prescription drugs are killing more people than anything else.  Spend trillions on overseas wars to "protect our freedoms?"  Terrorism is still a thing, we create more problems than we solve, etc.  Meanwhile, every year there are more and more laws where you can't do this and can't do that or we'll ruin your life. 

The executive branch has gotten so out of control that the President is now essentially a dictator.  Wanna torture some people?  Sure.  We can do that.  Want to murder Americans overseas w/o a trial?  No problem!  Want to unilaterally fuck over vast swathes of the American public?  You can do that, too!  It's just a single executive order away.  The "checks and balances" that are supposed to exist to stop this kind of shit are now basically not a thing since Congress is only concerned about lining their pockets and making sure they build up enough campaign cash to get reelected.  Every President from Reagan on has done some seriously impeachable shit and it all gets swept under the fucking rug.

Let's see, what else is the government good for?  Oh yeah, they're sweeping up every email and phone call and constantly working to increase their capacity to spy on all of us, because at the end of the day, the folks in power know that the real threat doesn't come from outside, but from the citizenry who finally get fed the fuck up.

But most Americans out there are just abso-fucking-lutely sure that everything can be fixed if they just get "their guy" into office.  Decades upon decades of corruption, bullshit wars, restricting civil rights, and just flat out wiping their ass with the Constitution and people still think it can be fixed by giving these cunts more power more money and more control.

"But Spiral!  If we don't have the government around who is gonna stop the robber barons from taking over?"  Take a look around.  They already fucking run the joint.  With the help of the government.  Fucks sake, they basically are the government at this point.  You think the people in Congress are writing those laws?  It's the fucking lobbyists handing it off to be rubber stamped.  The folks in power knowingly defrauded not only the American people, but people around the entire fucking globe in their greed to further scoop up as much money as they could leading to the 2008 economic crash.  Not a one of them went to jail.  They all got huge bonuses.  That's America for you.  Rules for thee and not for me.

Government has a place in our society.  Local government the most.  State government to a certain extent.  The Federal government?  It needs to be cut down to about as small as reasonably possible.  Letting it continue out of control is what is going to kill this country. 

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