What the fuck is wrong with you, Austin?

[Orange&White 5539]

15 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

A mental health facility would work but keeping someone in a mental health facility for life when he is "okay" on medication isn't appropriate in today's society.

You know what else is not appropriate in today's society? ATTACKING PEOPLE RANDOMLY, WITHOUT PROVOCATION, WITH FUCKING MACHETES.

I don't give a single fuck if that guy stays in a mental health facility for the rest of his life if it keeps one single other person from being attacked with a machete.

[Brisketexan 105446]

14 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

I don't get this, but I'm not sure that I have the answer. Generally, mental health patients don't like taking their medications for life. So, they aren't a risk to society when they are on their medications but are a risk when they are off of them. They just stated that the guy who took a machete to a jogger here in Austin is incompetent to stand trial. Knowing Austin, he probably will never stand trial. That might be okay if he stays on medication but the likelihood of that happening is slim to none. A mental health facility would work but keeping someone in a mental health facility for life when he is "okay" on medication isn't appropriate in today's society.

 

45 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah incompetent to stand trial means generally put in a facility and force-fed drugs until sufficiently competent to stand trial.  Not sure how that works exactly in the state system, but in federal means incarceration in one of the handful of prisons with hospital facilities indefinitely until "sane."   See, e. g. Kellye SoRelle. 

Read what Twice posted (quoted above for convenience). "Incompetent to stand trial" doesn't mean "wait till he feels better, then let him go."  It's not about being "not guilty by reason of insanity" (which is incredibly difficult to pull off as a defense - seriously, it very, very rarely works).  It's about whether he is mentally fit to participate in his own defense.  Until he is, then he will remain in custody in a treatment facility.  Once he is sane enough....then he goes to trial.

But generally speaking, nobody here is going to disagree with the notion that the dangerous insane should be allowed to walk the streets.  We just don't have a system designed to handle them very well.  And again, that's on purpose.

[Bevo 13601]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Read what Twice posted (quoted above for convenience). "Incompetent to stand trial" doesn't mean "wait till he feels better, then let him go."  It's not about being "not guilty by reason of insanity" (which is incredibly difficult to pull off as a defense - seriously, it very, very rarely works).  It's about whether he is mentally fit to participate in his own defense.  Until he is, then he will remain in custody in a treatment facility.  Once he is sane enough....then he goes to trial.

But generally speaking, nobody here is going to disagree with the notion that the dangerous insane should be allowed to walk the streets.  We just don't have a system designed to handle them very well.  And again, that's on purpose.

My only comments on the first paragraph are that I am well aware of the law but we are talking about Austin - so I have zero confidence that a trial will take place. And I have zero confidence that he would do much time behind bars if a trial were to take place. And if he were forced to take medications in prison then he would be fine in prison and wouldn't appear to be a danger to society.

The second paragraph didn't answer my concerns. A person on medication isn't dangerously insane. And we as a society aren't willing to put people in mental facilities for life if they don't want to be in one. So if a person is on the street taking their medication, society isn't at risk. As soon as an insane person gets off his medication then he is at risk. Unfortunately, insane people don't generally stay on their medications when they are away from people making them take their medications. So basically they are always at risk to society. How as a society do we address this basic flaw, a two strike rule, a three strike rule...? Don't just say that the problem is due to how we deal with mental health? Come up with a way to deal with it. Just saying allow the insane free psychology sessions or putting them in institutions for life without fully thinking out how that would work doesn't do any good.

Edited March 18 by Bevo

[Brisketexan 105446]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

A person on medication isn't dangerously insane. And we as a society aren't willing to put people in mental facilities for life if they don't want to be in one. So if a person is on the street taking their medication, society isn't at risk. As soon as an insane person gets off his medication then he is at risk. Unfortunately, insane people don't generally stay on their medications when they are away from people making them take their medications. So basically they are always at risk to society. How as a society do we address this basic flaw, a two strike rule, a three strike rule...?

That's not an Austin question, that's an America question.

And we've already decided.  Between one extreme of left libertarianism and the other extreme of "anything that helps another person at all, even if it's actually for the benefit of society as a whole, is socialismcommunism and those people should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps!", we have the exact system we want.

We can't confine them long-term.

And we sure as shit can't help them.

 

There's plenty of common-sense ways to approach the issue that balance rights and the need to protect society.  But rest assured, every one of them is DOA before we even talk about it.  We could write pages here (e.g., treat release from mental health care like probation, with blood tests to verify that a person remains on their medication, if not, probation revoked) but it's pointless.

[Bevo 13601]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

That's not an Austin question, that's an America question.

And we've already decided.  Between one extreme of left libertarianism and the other extreme of "anything that helps another person at all, even if it's actually for the benefit of society as a whole, is socialismcommunism and those people should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps!", we have the exact system we want.

We can't confine them long-term.

And we sure as shit can't help them.

 

There's plenty of common-sense ways to approach the issue that balance rights and the need to protect society.  But rest assured, every one of them is DOA before we even talk about it.  We could write pages here (e.g., treat release from mental health care like probation, with blood tests to verify that a person remains on their medication, if not, probation revoked) but it's pointless.

This is true in most political discussions. We have a system where the moderates are split between two parties and the extremes end up being the majority - So most elected officials are extreme. But in most cases you are political and have strong opinions. Why in this case do you say it is pointless? It seems to me that a solution is possible here because neither party has to worry about voting blocks.

[Brisketexan 105446]

10 minutes ago, Bevo said:

But in most cases you are political and have strong opinions. Why in this case do you say it is pointless?

Oh.  Perhaps you've missed my overall theme.  I don't think that in THIS case, common-sense solutions are pointless.  I mean in most EVERY case in modern America, common-sense solutions are pointless and will never happen.  Healthcare, mental health, guns, immigration, you name it....we are stuck because of the rhetorical extremes.  We're fucked, and there's no unfucking us.

[Samson's Wig 3194]

On 3/12/2024 at 9:49 AM, Brisketexan said:

Daughter snapped this pic this morning:
 

 

What is that?  Some dude on his Rascal-ish scooter.....in a primary traffic lane.  Is there a sidewalk in that area?  Yes.  Is there even a bike lane?  Also yes.  Does Boomer give a fuck?  NO.  He'll just hold up an entire lane of traffic using his Rascal as if it was a freaking car, except it goes about 5 mph.

I'll bet that guy ended up on the Rascal due to a cycling injury.

[crash_davis 23115]

Revolving door for criminals, if you are crazy, which basically is our homeless population. The city/county attorneys are fine with letting them back on the street, repeatedly. Fuck both Garzas. City/county services can't address the matter appropriately. So it's the fucking citizens and business owners who get fucked, repeatedly, in all of it. 

The asshole committed a crime. He needs to do the time. I don't give a shit if he's crazy or not. There are thousands of reasons why fuckheads commit crime. I don't give a fuck what the reason is. Why should crazy be the magic get out of jail card.

If you repeatedly commit crimes, you belong in prison. Put his ass in prison until a bed in the loony bin opens up. Fuck both Garzas!

 

https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/gap-in-the-system-addressing-crime-suspects-mental-health-in-travis-county/

 

AUSTIN (KXAN) — Craig Staley, the owner of Royal Blue Grocery, a local downtown grocery chain, said a man who has been in and out of jail has put him out about $20,000 in window repairs.

Staley said the man has repeatedly broken into his store, even after getting arrested for the alleged crime multiple times.

The courts have found this suspect perpetually incompetent to stand trial. We are not identifying the man because of the mental health component involved. Police told KXAN the man is experiencing homelessness.

According to court records, the charges keep getting dismissed. The Travis County District Attorney’s Office said people found incompetent and unlikely to restore cannot be prosecuted for a crime.

“It’s terribly frustrating, and to know that it’s going to happen again,” Staley said.

Smith said there’s a mental health screening for everyone who comes into the jail. From there, staff will refer people they have competency concerns about to the courts. If a person is deemed incompetent to stand trial, they’ll be put on a waitlist to go to the state hospital.

Travis County’s director of inmate mental health programs addresses what he calls a gap in the system. (KXAN photo/Brianna Hollis)

“That process is quite lengthy, it could take up to two years to get to a bed,” Smith said.

District Attorney Jose Garza’s office explained that this is different if the case involves someone who’s unlikely to restore their competence.

“Individuals found to be incompetent and unlikely to regain competence certainly need treatment and other services, but they cannot be expected to receive this support through the criminal justice process. Therefore, it is crucial for government and non-profit organizations to collaborate and enhance mental health services in our community,” Garza’s office said in a statement.

MOST READ: When, how to plant bluebonnets in your Texas yard

Smith said the challenges his staff face on this front are due in part to what he called a lack of community resources. He said he also can’t force someone to get treatment who the courts haven’t required to do so.

“Unless that person is a danger to self or others though they can decline those services and walk away and that’s often the case,” he said.

Smith added that it also be difficult to intercept inmates with mental health needs to make that initial contact before the inmates get released, contributing to the revolving door aspect.

“It’s a challenge with people coming in and out very quickly. Often, times people will come into booking overnight, then we interview first thing in the morning, and then within hours we’re getting a list that they’re being released, so providing services for them is very challenging, especially if you’re dealing with things like homelessness,” Smith said.

[Bozo_Casanova 26579]

8 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

The asshole committed a crime. He needs to do the time. I don't give a shit if he's crazy or not. There are thousands of reasons why fuckheads commit crime. I don't give a fuck what the reason is. Why should crazy be the magic get out of jail card.

This is the reactionary flip side of “we should just put them in hotels!”

Edited March 19 by Bozo_Casanova

[YGIFS 19452]

"Are you a homeless person?"

"No.  But I did stay at an abandoned Holiday Inn Express in Austin last night."  

[crash_davis 23115]

34 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is the reactionary flip side of “we should just put them in hotels!”

Why did you stab that person and maim him for life? 

Because I'm crazy. When do I get out of jail? Thanks, Garza.

[Armybrat 40920]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:15 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

Source: Austin police department 

responsibility: Austin police department 

APD’s responsibility is to draw the chalk lines and laugh at the Kia & Hyundai owners.

[Armybrat 40920]

And to shoot your dog.

[Bozo_Casanova 26579]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

Why did you stab that person and maim him for life? 

Because I'm crazy. When do I get out of jail? Thanks, Garza.

You realize that’s the way our system works, right? There’s a population of a few hundred violent mentally ill people who are known to all of the relevant agencies in Austin.
The agencies have only one legal option afforded to them in our system- intake, stabilization, discharge, repeat. Go talk to a jailer about this, don’t take my word for it. So is your preferred alternative to pretend they aren’t crazy? That’s literally the same thing as the put-them-in-hotels crowd except hotels are actually cheaper than kangaroo court followed by state prison. Imagine having a worse idea than buying hotels. 

Every big city in America has the same problem. That’s just how it is. if you don’t like it, support Mobile Loaves and Fishes and Community First Village, and talk to your state rep about reforming involuntary commitment standards. 

 

[PvilleStang 2922]

3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is the reactionary flip side of “we should just put them in hotels!”

I'll call bullshit on this.  I don't care if it's a mentally stable, premeditated mass murderer, or a crazy dude driving a vehicle into a crowd of people.  If you're capable of doing that kind of harm, you need to be incarcerated.  Claiming you were insane and should get a free pass on a murder is complete bullshit.  You're a threat to society, plain and simple.  Mental state should only play into whether you grow old in Terrell State Hospital or Huntsville.

[Deej 76957]

I think once you show you are a threat to kill when you aren't on your medications, you should spend your days in prison, being administered your medications. 

[crash_davis 23115]

Bozo is right. The system is fucked and citizens are the most fucked. Bend over and take it, no lube. Crazies have free reign to do whatever the fuck they want.

What I want is more Jail Based Competency Restoration, or just more whatever facility to get these fuckheads off the streets. 

 

Here's a long law review on Incompetent to Stand Trial.

https://texastechlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/TTLR-Vol.-55-Book-1.Mitchell-Snead.PUBLISHED.pdf

Here's an article which summarizes the issue. It's about Montana but I imagine it's the same for Texas.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/mental-illness-dropped-charges-competency-care/

[Brisketexan 105446]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

and talk to your state rep about reforming involuntary commitment standards. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Bozo is right. The system is fucked and citizens are the most fucked. Bend over and take it, no lube. Crazies have free reign to do whatever the fuck they want.

What I want is more Jail Based Competency Restoration, or just more whatever facility to get these fuckheads off the streets. 

 

Here's a long law review on Incompetent to Stand Trial.

https://texastechlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/TTLR-Vol.-55-Book-1.Mitchell-Snead.PUBLISHED.pdf

Here's an article which summarizes the issue. It's about Montana but I imagine it's the same for Texas.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/mental-illness-dropped-charges-competency-care/

Bingo.  There ARE solutions out there.  We are interested in precisely NONE of them.

Imagine pitching a revised involuntary commitment regime to the current Texas Legislature (because that's where the change would have to come from).  Yeah.  Good fucking luck.  I'm sure they'll tackle that right after the bill providing for procuring 1,000 unicorns for DPS to ride on patrol.

The current legal system only has so many tools to get dangerous mentally ill people off the streets.  That is by design.  Austin is far from alone in having its hands tied on the issue.  Fix the law.  It starts with the Legislature, clearly the most functional and well-meaning body around, so it should be easy peasy.

[Foosters 17889]

36 minutes ago, PvilleStang said:

 Claiming you were insane and should get a free pass on a murder is complete bullshit.  

Who's claiming this?

[crash_davis 23115]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Bingo.  There ARE solutions out there.  We are interested in precisely NONE of them.

Imagine pitching a revised involuntary commitment regime to the current Texas Legislature (because that's where the change would have to come from).  Yeah.  Good fucking luck.  I'm sure they'll tackle that right after the bill providing for procuring 1,000 unicorns for DPS to ride on patrol.

The current legal system only has so many tools to get dangerous mentally ill people off the streets.  That is by design.  Austin is far from alone in having its hands tied on the issue.  Fix the law.  It starts with the Legislature, clearly the most functional and well-meaning body around, so it should be easy peasy.

What I find surprising is with the big business of privatizing jails, I thought an enterprising jail building and running business owner would've donated copious amounts of money to our elected officials to build more jails for jail based competency restoration programs. That alone should grease the wheels for some sort of reform.

 

[royiv 9378]

12 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

What I find surprising is with the big business of privatizing jails, I thought an enterprising jail building and running business owner would've donated copious amounts of money to our elected officials to build more jails for jail based competency restoration programs. That alone should grease the wheels for some sort of reform.

 

Private jails are all about cutting costs and providing the very bare minimum in order to maximize shareholder returns. Jail based competency restoration requires actual mental health services so I don’t see any private operators being interested.

[bolverk 29734]

26 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Imagine pitching a revised involuntary commitment regime to the current Texas Legislature (because that's where the change would have to come from).

I can imagine how all our conspiracy nuts would react.

[Bozo_Casanova 26579]

10 minutes ago, royiv said:

Private jails are all about cutting costs and providing the very bare minimum in order to maximize shareholder returns. Jail based competency restoration requires actual mental health services so I don’t see any private operators being interested.

Funny enough- a private operator told me a few years ago that they wish the system could get them out of the mental health business, because it’s a huge drag on margins. 
 

[Foosters 17889]

Don't know how you all do it in Texas, but here's how it works where I practice:

1) Doubt is raised over the competency of a defendant 

2) Criminal Proceedings are suspended for "restoration of competency." Defendant is sent to a lockdown mental hospital and can remain there for up to 3 years.

3) If, after 3 years (or sooner if max punishment on the charges is under 3 years), it does not appear that the defendant will be restored to competency, the case can be dismissed OR the state can try for a Conservatorship in which the defendant can be sent to a lockdown mental hospital, potentially for life.

1a) If defense tries for the "not guilty by reason of insanity defense" then even if the jury/judge returns with a "NGI" verdict, the defendant is sent to a lockdown mental hospital until sanity can be restored; or until the defendant reaches the maximum exposure. In practice, an NGI defense can provide false hope for a defendant as they often spend longer in a locked facility than they would had they simply taken a plea deal for prison.

 

 

[bschoolprof 6273]

15 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Don't know how you all do it in Texas, but here's how it works where I practice:

1) Doubt is raised over the competency of a defendant 

2) Criminal Proceedings are suspended for "restoration of competency." Defendant is sent to a lockdown mental hospital and can remain there for up to 3 years.

3) If, after 3 years (or sooner if max punishment on the charges is under 3 years), it does not appear that the defendant will be restored to competency, the case can be dismissed OR the state can try for a Conservatorship in which the defendant can be sent to a lockdown mental hospital, potentially for life.

1a) If defense tries for the "not guilty by reason of insanity defense" then even if the jury/judge returns with a "NGI" verdict, the defendant is sent to a lockdown mental hospital until sanity can be restored; or until the defendant reaches the maximum exposure. In practice, an NGI defense can provide false hope for a defendant as they often spend longer in a locked facility than they would had they simply taken a plea deal for prison.

 

 

It sounds like, according to the quote in the article above, here 2 and 3 are skipped and the Travis County DA just dismisses the case immediately.  It is unclear whether the waitlist for the state hospital mentioned later in the article comes into play or not.  

Edited March 19 by bschoolprof

[Guest]

Went to Butler Park Pitch & Putt the other day. I think this is my favorite spot in this city. Absolutely love it. I was terrified when it changed management, but the new team seems objectively better at keeping it up.

It's been a while, but noticed that they put a fence along the creek on the south edge of the property. When I left, I noticed that the other side of the creek is fenced in with razor wire due to homeless. Seeing it more and more around town. Natural spaces that used to be open now fenced off with razor wire.

[Eskimohorn 5644]

I'll call bullshit on this.  I don't care if it's a mentally stable, premeditated mass murderer, or a crazy dude driving a vehicle into a crowd of people.  If you're capable of doing that kind of harm, you need to be incarcerated.  Claiming you were insane and should get a free pass on a murder is complete bullshit.  You're a threat to society, plain and simple.  Mental state should only play into whether you grow old in Terrell State Hospital or Huntsville.

So you strenuously object to our constitution and reality?

The reality is that the problem isnt that we have fake mentally ill who are truly competent to stand trial. Its that we have really mentally ill people that are incompetent.

[texasdago 7585]

36 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Went to Butler Park Pitch & Putt the other day. I think this is my favorite spot in this city. Absolutely love it. I was terrified when it changed management, but the new team seems objectively better at keeping it up.

It's been a while, but noticed that they put a fence along the creek on the south edge of the property. When I left, I noticed that the other side of the creek is fenced in with razor wire due to homeless. Seeing it more and more around town. Natural spaces that used to be open now fenced off with razor wire.

The fact that the city just ignores and allows that... especially when a certain mayor ran on it... is baffling!?

[Bozo_Casanova 26579]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

In practice, an NGI defense can provide false hope for a defendant as they often spend longer in a locked facility than they would had they simply taken a plea deal for prison

Impossible- I read on Surly that it was a get out of jail free card. 

[Samson's Wig 3194]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

I can imagine how all our conspiracy nuts would react.

So long as they're locked up and getting treatment, who cares?

[bolverk 29734]

5 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

So long as they're locked up and getting treatment, who cares?

Most conspiracy nuts aren't crazy enough to be committed.

[Samson's Wig 3194]

5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Most conspiracy nuts aren't crazy enough to be committed.

What I'm suggesting is that maybe they should be.

[bolverk 29734]

7 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

What I'm suggesting is that maybe they should be.

I don't necessarily disagree, but my voice/vote only very rarely gets its way in the Texas lege, whereas many of the conspiracy nuts do.

Edited March 19 by bolverk

[Samson's Wig 3194]

Just now, bolverk said:

I don't necessarily disagree, but my voice/vote only very rarely gets its way in the Texas lege.

I was being facetious.  Obviously, we can't lock up people for being stupid and/or gullible, or there would be very few people left running free.  Depending on where we draw the line, I might not even make the cut.  And I hear you.  I can't recall the last time my vote or voice lined up with anything the Texas lege has done. I'm sure there's an outlier or two out there that I'm forgetting or unaware of.  

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

These issues usually start well before they are running around Austin with a machete on the streets. Typically, they were public school students with a special education label that severely limited consequences for disruptive, or even violent behavior. There are some limits, such as bringing drugs or a weapon on campus but the daily insanity is legally protected. 

I talk to special education directors at major districts all day for a living. The increase they are seeing in students that fit this profile is disturbing. Districts are not funded to hire a bunch of mental health therapists, and the ones that find the money can’t fill the positions. They are able to get some kids into residential or other treatment facilities but then are on the hook for the cost. I talked to a superintendent in another state that’s paying 100k per kid in some cases.

When I was a principal, I shared 1 therapist with 5 other campuses. Regular school counselors are not equipped to deal with this level of need. Private schools aren’t taking these kids with their $10,000 voucher if we go that route.

We need a school to treatment facility pipeline instead of the current school to the streets pipeline. The teachers deal with it until it’s the cops turn. It will take funding and changing laws, but the alternative is more people getting stabbed.

[Brisketexan 105446]

3 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

It will take funding and changing laws, but the alternative is more people getting stabbed.

Sorry....best we can do is a law requiring every person to carry a gun at all times.

Seriously, you know that a bill doing just that has a 1000X better chance of getting passed in Texas than anything else you're talking about.

[ChickenSandwich 9855]

https://www.kut.org/austin/2024-03-19/austin-population-census-data-net-migration
 

For the first time in 20 years, more people are leaving Travis County than moving in

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Sorry....best we can do is a law requiring every person to carry a gun at all times.

Seriously, you know that a bill doing just that has a 1000X better chance of getting passed in Texas than anything else you're talking about.

We’ll just go to a 4 day week for students because it’s the only way we can convince people to work in these conditions. Yet another one of my customer districts just announced this today. It’s about to be extremely common.

Remember when we kept warning about how bad it was for teachers? The resounding response was to quit crying and find another job if you don’t like it. Well, here we are….

[Brisketexan 105446]

11 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

We’ll just go to a 4 day week for students because it’s the only way we can convince people to work in these conditions. Yet another one of my customer districts just announced this today. It’s about to be extremely common.

Remember when we kept warning about how bad it was for teachers? The resounding response was to quit crying and find another job if you don’t like it. Well, here we are….

Feature, not a bug.  The goal is to kill public education completely.  They're stating it quite openly.

[Orange&White 5539]

I’m really curious about the opinions and ideas of what can and should be done, in the current environment and budget constraints, for people who attack random and innocent people with machetes, and destroy a small business owner repeatedly.

Sure, you can sit and bitch and moan about mental health care and unfit to stand trial, but what do you actually propose be done with the machete guy RIGHT NOW? What do you propose should be done with the guy that repeatedly breaks the window of the exact same establishment, right now? 

Im not talking about pie in the sky perfect plan with unlimited budget that everyone magically agrees upon. I am talking about today.

Because some of you seem to be content to just keep letting these obvious dangers to society keep getting let out, knowing damn well they are going to do the same shit again and again.

Is that it? You are good with the way Garza is handling this right now? Are you fine with the collateral damage now as long as you believe it is going to eventually lead to some kind of reform? 
 

If the guy was breaking into your house once a month and threatening your family would you feel the same? Or is it because it is a business owner downtown or some rando on a hiking trail that you are fine that they keep getting set free to do shit again?

Seriously, what are y’all’s recommendation for the immediate problem, within the immediate environment of public opinion, politics and budget?

 

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

34 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

I’m really curious about the opinions and ideas of what can and should be done, in the current environment and budget constraints, for people who attack random and innocent people with machetes, and destroy a small business owner repeatedly.

Sure, you can sit and bitch and moan about mental health care and unfit to stand trial, but what do you actually propose be done with the machete guy RIGHT NOW? What do you propose should be done with the guy that repeatedly breaks the window of the exact same establishment, right now? 

Im not talking about pie in the sky perfect plan with unlimited budget that everyone magically agrees upon. I am talking about today.

Because some of you seem to be content to just keep letting these obvious dangers to society keep getting let out, knowing damn well they are going to do the same shit again and again.

Is that it? You are good with the way Garza is handling this right now? Are you fine with the collateral damage now as long as you believe it is going to eventually lead to some kind of reform? 
 

If the guy was breaking into your house once a month and threatening your family would you feel the same? Or is it because it is a business owner downtown or some rando on a hiking trail that you are fine that they keep getting set free to do shit again?

Seriously, what are y’all’s recommendation for the immediate problem, within the immediate environment of public opinion, politics and budget?

 

If there is strong evidence of a person committing a crime and they are deemed unfit to stand trial, they should go to a state run mental health facility. They stay there until they can go to trial. Every major city should have at least one. It will be expensive, but that is the cost of not having psychos roaming the streets.

There should be youth facilities as well to give these kids the around the clock care that they need. The most mentally ill child I ever worked with was completely incapable (at that time) of safely living in a home environment. She bounced around foster homes until a residential treatment facility in another city could take her in. It took a year of hell, worsening mental health, and a move to a completely new city to get help. Right now they just go to Dell children’s until they are deemed to not be a threat to themself or others then right back home.

[Brisketexan 105446]

I’m really curious about the opinions and ideas of what can and should be done, in the current environment and budget constraints, for people who attack random and innocent people with machetes, and destroy a small business owner repeatedly.
Sure, you can sit and bitch and moan about mental health care and unfit to stand trial, but what do you actually propose be done with the machete guy RIGHT NOW? What do you propose should be done with the guy that repeatedly breaks the window of the exact same establishment, right now? 
Im not talking about pie in the sky perfect plan with unlimited budget that everyone magically agrees upon. I am talking about today.
Because some of you seem to be content to just keep letting these obvious dangers to society keep getting let out, knowing damn well they are going to do the same shit again and again.
Is that it? You are good with the way Garza is handling this right now? Are you fine with the collateral damage now as long as you believe it is going to eventually lead to some kind of reform? 
 
If the guy was breaking into your house once a month and threatening your family would you feel the same? Or is it because it is a business owner downtown or some rando on a hiking trail that you are fine that they keep getting set free to do shit again?
Seriously, what are y’all’s recommendation for the immediate problem, within the immediate environment of public opinion, politics and budget?
 

It’s not necessarily about what we WANT to do. Local authorities are limited in what they CAN do. We’re not advocating for or excusing dangerous mentally ill people. We’re telling you that the toolbox is limited as hell.

[crash_davis 23115]

The troll is completed in Pease Park. How long until some deranged, repeat offender, homeless dude burns it down? I give it a year.

[YGIFS 19452]

We love the Kingsbury Commons.  We hit it up all the time during early years of Covid.  Oldest really wants to see that installation.  Youngest was terrified by the pictures we showed her.  So if a homeless guy doesn't destroy it, she probably will.  

[Orange&White 5539]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

It’s not necessarily about what we WANT to do. Local authorities are limited in what they CAN do. We’re not advocating for or excusing dangerous mentally ill people. We’re telling you that the toolbox is limited as hell.

I know the toolbox is limited, and I understand that, but there are a couple of posters here that do nothing but deride the people who are in favor of locking up the most dangerous people, and then go on to tell the same story of how the system is broke. But they never, ever offer any alternatives or solutions that can actually be achieved.

[Brisketexan 105446]

I know the toolbox is limited, and I understand that, but there are a couple of posters here that do nothing but deride the people who are in favor of locking up the most dangerous people, and then go on to tell the same story of how the system is broke. But they never, ever offer any alternatives or solutions that can actually be achieved.

Maybe that’s because there really aren’t any that can actually be achieved - that’s the rub. We have the system we have, and there is no political will or willingness at the Legislature to change it.
All kinds of possible solutions. None can be achieved. Want to change things? Change your government. But I suspect you’ll just keep voting for the same old same old.
We get the government we vote for. We keep voting for “let local law enforcement be our sole mechanism of addressing mental health dangers, and let’s not even give them any real tools to do that.” So that’s what we get.

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe that’s because there really aren’t any that can actually be achieved - that’s the rub. We have the system we have, and there is no political will or willingness at the Legislature to change it.
All kinds of possible solutions. None can be achieved. Want to change things? Change your government. But I suspect you’ll just keep voting for the same old same old.
We get the government we vote for. We keep voting for “let local law enforcement be our sole mechanism of addressing mental health dangers, and let’s not even give them any real tools to do that.” So that’s what we get.

Is the Texas GOP’s aversion to forcing them into mental health facilities purely financial? My family is almost all republicans in the Austin area and they are all for it. Now I don’t get into how we are going to pay for it with them….

[Biff Tannen 45750]

2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

The troll is completed in Pease Park. How long until some deranged, repeat offender, homeless dude burns it down? I give it a year.

That’s honestly pretty fucking great

[Orange&White 5539]

8 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe that’s because there really aren’t any that can actually be achieved - that’s the rub. We have the system we have, and there is no political will or willingness at the Legislature to change it.
All kinds of possible solutions. None can be achieved. Want to change things? Change your government. But I suspect you’ll just keep voting for the same old same old.
We get the government we vote for. We keep voting for “let local law enforcement be our sole mechanism of addressing mental health dangers, and let’s not even give them any real tools to do that.” So that’s what we get.

I still get it. There are no good options. But that is exactly why I am asking what some of y'all think should be done right now with the violent/aggressive/repeat offenders? Just keep letting them out until some magical cure that everyone agrees on and funds?

At some point, the most violent repeat offenders have to be locked up to protect society. No one wants that. No one if hoping that is the permanent fix. But RIGHT NOW, in this immediate environment, that is the only option. Repeatedly freeing them to commit progressively more dangerous and violent crimes is ridiculous.

Anytime there is discussion here of a violent/aggressive/ repeat offender, it seems that it cannot be discussed here in a vacuum of "this one particular guy is fucking crazy and needs to be locked up". It always devolves into the context of trying to solve the entire homeless/mental illness issue in one conversation that goes in endless circles.

 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26579]

@Orange&White when I say there are no good options, it’s because there are no good options. There are also no other options for “right now.” 
The system we have is working as designed within the real life limits of budget and manpower, at the bottom rung of a declining civilization and a diseased culture. 
I voted against Garza. I am actively working towards his defeat in November. But the Garza aren’t doing anything differently than their predecessors on this particular issue and people who say otherwise aren’t telling the truth. 
when you say “this one guy is crazy and should be locked up” I agree. Who should lock him up and whether they will take/have space for him is a different question. The prisons don’t want him, the jail doesn’t want to manage him,  prosecution will never be a priority, and there’s no money to be made getting him square. So it’s intake, stabilize, release, repeat, again and again. 
The only thing we can do that has any immediate direct impact is support ML&F, because they are they only ones breaking that cycle.

Edited March 20 by Bozo_Casanova