What the fuck is wrong with you, Austin?

[Foosters 18286]

2 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

I don’t disagree, but in my view there are really two issues here. Yes, homelessness, drug dealing and their attendant problems are symptoms of broader systemic issues. But they are also quality-of-life issues that result in the denial of public space to law-abiding citizens and adverse economic effects to surrounding neighborhoods. One municipality cannot single-handedly solve the opioid crisis, but it might be able to crack down on an open-air drug market through punitive measures that provide a deterrent effect.

If (if) that works, so what? Yes, the problem will just go elsewhere and that’s a shame, but ultimately a municipality is responsible for protecting the quality of life of its residents. IMO, at least - you’re certainly entitled to disagree and many folks where I live do so. (Sorry if I’m projecting too much - still boggles the Chronicle’s report on a village in Honduras with McMansions built with Tenderloin drug money paying homage to their cash cow.)

I don't have a problem with city's using their powers of enforcement - including the criminal code - to deter and stop drug dealing and other criminal activity. But as you know, we spent an entire decade going HARD after drug dealers and the accompanying crime, and it never really seemed to make a dent. It didn't drive drugs and drug use to other cities. It just created a revolving door to the jails and prisons.  Is the only difference now that because of the housing crisis these sales, use, and accompanying crime are taking place on Main street instead of flop houses on the east side of town? Honest question. 

Quote

but ultimately a municipality is responsible for protecting the quality of life of its residents

I 100% agree. It hurts to walk through Downtown LA every day and walk by people having active mental health crises. Its sad that I don't feel comfortable taking my child, my wife, and, shit, sometimes myself to various parts of the city due to the crisis. I'm moving more towards loosening the requirements for involuntary commitment, with accompanying due process safeguards, but I still don't think the criminal justice system is the answer.

If a municipality allows one of its citizens to matriculate through k-12 with untreated mental illness, when DCFS (overburdened and underfunded) overlooks years of abuse and neglect, when the education of that citizen solely consists of sticking that person in the back of a 38 person classroom with no individual instruction or attention and passes them on year to year, and when that person needs to make $50k+ a year in order to not sleep on the street; then I would argue that municipality is not serious about protecting the quality of life of its residents. And, waiting until those years of untreated abuse, neglect, and lack of medical care erupt into a violent episode is a predictable result that should surprise no one.

That said, we both know that systemic changes on multiple fronts is a pipe dream, so perhaps the only answer truly is significantly increasing the punishments so that these crimes result in years in prison as opposed to weeks or months in county jails. Obviously I don't think that's the answer, but given enough time, it will be the answer we eventually settle on, because when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. 

[demos 3041]

We need a prolific serial killer with a penchant for hobos.

[MAUFRAIS 6745]

The fuck did he do?

[Bozo_Casanova 26896]

24 minutes ago, demos said:

 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26896]

Wha happen

 

[royiv 9826]

30 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Wha happen

 

That's depressing as fuck. I don't have numbers to back it up, but I have to imagine it's cheaper to provide mental health treatment and housing support than it is to constantly churn people through the justice and prison systems.

[MAUFRAIS 6745]

It’s mcmurphys fault

[Bozo_Casanova 26896]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

That's depressing as fuck. I don't have numbers to back it up, but I have to imagine it's cheaper to provide mental health treatment and housing support than it is to constantly churn people through the justice and prison systems.

If you were a brain genius you would blame Greg Cesar and Jose Garza.

[dcar00 14985]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

That's depressing as fuck. I don't have numbers to back it up, but I have to imagine it's cheaper to provide mental health treatment and housing support than it is to constantly churn people through the justice and prison systems.

drugs are cool, man...

[royiv 9826]

13 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

drugs are cool, man...

The justice system has an amazing track record of treating mental issues, including addiction.

[Neonmoon 38130]

Mental Institutions need to return (without all the abuse and prison like social structure format). There are some people that are so mentally ill, there is no better place. Prison is a terrible solution. Shelters don’t have the resources. 

[ztejas 44259]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Wha happen

 

Meh. A lot of those mental hospitals were worse than prisons. We have too many people incarcerated in this country but we aren't lobotomizing people in insane asylums against their will anymore. I'm not even sure how big the middle section of that venn diagram is. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by ztejas

[ztejas 44259]

2 hours ago, royiv said:

That's depressing as fuck. I don't have numbers to back it up, but I have to imagine it's cheaper to provide mental health treatment and housing support than it is to constantly churn people through the justice and prison systems.

My black coworker made the somewhat conspiratorial point today that one of the reasons they don't lock up the crazy homeless criminals is because it isn't profitable for the prison industrial complex.

i.e. it's too much of a resource drain to care for them

That made a lot of sense to me. 

(and... to your point... we aren't doing a good job at providing an alternative)

Edited July 14, 2023 by ztejas

[Bozo_Casanova 26896]

10 hours ago, ztejas said:

Meh. A lot of those mental hospitals were worse than prisons. We have too many people incarcerated in this country but we aren't lobotomizing people in insane asylums against their will anymore. I'm not even sure how big the middle section of that venn diagram is. 

That's a fair point, but is it too much to think that for what we spend on prisons we could have long term residential care facilities that weren't horrible? 

[Homercles 10206]

11 hours ago, ztejas said:

Meh. A lot of those mental hospitals were worse than prisons. We have too many people incarcerated in this country but we aren't lobotomizing people in insane asylums against their will anymore. I'm not even sure how big the middle section of that venn diagram is. 

[Deej 77856]

20 hours ago, Bevo said:

One of my patients was telling me that his boss lives on Lake Austin - the boss' house was broken into while they were out of town and the alarm went off, the police came and after giving the all clear, left the premises with everything as it was. Within an hour, the criminals came back, stole all their jewelry and stole their car. The car still hasn't been found but they did leave two bicycles at the crime scene.

Fuck the people on Lake Austin. Didn't they pull their weight to get out of paying Austin property taxes? They deserve what they get. 

[Bevo 13904]

1 minute ago, Deej said:

Fuck the people on Lake Austin. Didn't they pull their weight to get out of paying Austin property taxes? They deserve what they get. 

I understand your hate for someone living on Lake Austin, but just an FYI - You are speaking about a family that you and I don't know.

[BabaYaga 15629]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

You are speaking about a family that you and I don't know.

Surly motto?

[ztejas 44259]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's a fair point, but is it too much to think that for what we spend on prisons we could have long term residential care facilities that weren't horrible? 

No - I agree. And I think state hospitals and the like have definitely gotten better. Just wanted to make the point that there's a reason the mental hospital population saw a drastic decline - they were doing a lot of fucked up shit. 

The privatization of prison and rehab/mental hospitals is pretty disgusting when you get down to it. Granted, a lot of the state-run rehabs are fucking disasters.

[gsoda3 3362]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's a fair point, but is it too much to think that for what we spend on prisons we could have long term residential care facilities that weren't horrible? 

no one would want to work there.  the job description would boil down to being a prison guard and nurse rolled into one with worse security measures.

[Deej 77856]

8 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I understand your hate for someone living on Lake Austin, but just an FYI - You are speaking about a family that you and I don't know.

Meh. People with money worming out of taxes. 

[Texas Jeff 1999]

22 minutes ago, Deej said:

Fuck the people on Lake Austin. Didn't they pull their weight to get out of paying Austin property taxes? They deserve what they get. 

They tried to get a bill passed to deannex from the city but it did not make it through the House.

[crash_davis 23470]

25 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

no one would want to work there.  the job description would boil down to being a prison guard and nurse rolled into one with worse security measures.

My first job out of college was directing worker's comp for UT - Health Houston Psych Ward. I would read the daily incident reports which basically was crazy ass motherfuckers assaulting nurses, orderlies, and staff. That place had a problem keeping people on staff. Well, no shit.

So instead of hotels, we throw all these crazy homeless motherfuckers in a psych ward. Psych ward, prison, I DGAF. Just get them out of Austin.

So then that leaves the habitual drug users and assholes who choose to be homeless. What do we do with them? For the recidivist assholes, throw them in prison. I'm indirectly paying to deal with their sorry asses anyway. Well, since I'm already paying, put them in a place that where they can't harass tax paying home and business owners.

Edited July 14, 2023 by crash_davis

[Brian Fantana 6874]

13 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

My first job out of college was directing worker's comp for UT - Health Houston Psych Ward. I would read the daily incident reports which basically was crazy ass motherfuckers assaulting nurses, orderlies, and staff. That place had a problem keeping people on staff. Well, no shit.

So instead of hotels, we throw all these crazy homeless motherfuckers in a psych ward. Psych ward, prison, I DGAF. Just get them out of Austin.

So then that leaves the habitual drug users and assholes who choose to be homeless. What do we do with them? For the recidivist assholes, throw them in prison. I'm indirectly paying to deal with their sorry asses anyway. Well, since I'm already paying, put them in a place that where they can't harass tax paying home and business owners.

Maybe you should take a lap and take a break from all the Melt Homeless People into Biomatter shit for at least a day you fucking psycho?

[crash_davis 23470]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Melt Homeless People into Biomatter

[DaysOff 8214]

I can't believe anyone would want to live outside in Texas. These people are truly mental. I also can't believe Abbott hasn't bussed them to San Diego. That's where I'd go.

[PvilleStang 3001]

53 minutes ago, Deej said:

Fuck the people on Lake Austin. Didn't they pull their weight to get out of paying Austin property taxes? They deserve what they get. 

The COA annexed all the Lake Austin lakefront, even if it was Westlake, County, Lakeway, etc.  It's crap because the homeowners are paying a premuim, and receive NO city services.  All the while people across the street pay county taxes only.  I for one agree with a good portion of those trying to de-annex.  It was the city's way of doing a money grab on all the richest properties in Travis County it could.  If they were trying to de-annex while their across-the-street neighbor was part of COA, I could see the argument they're being elitists, but the fact that Austin ONLY annexed those directly waterfront, come on...

[gofuckyourself 9090]

12 hours ago, ztejas said:

Meh. A lot of those mental hospitals were worse than prisons. We have too many people incarcerated in this country but we aren't lobotomizing people in insane asylums against their will anymore. I'm not even sure how big the middle section of that venn diagram is. 

Out of college I did some investigations of mental hospitals, both government/state run and private. I watched hundreds of hours of undercover raid footage and hidden camera reports of people being treated worse than animals, all over the country. Internationally it wasn't much better, with European hospital raid footage that stirs up pure rage and disgust. Places covered in feces and urine while hospital administrators kept the government money.

It's been a while, "way back" in the 1990s, when a lot of those raids happened and shut down the facilities. I'd like to think it's all in the past, but I wouldn't be shocked if it's only covered up better in some cases. The elderly in particular, and kids, are susceptible to an often fucked-up system.

Historically it's both fascinating and depressing. Even "bedlam" as a term came from Bethlehem Royal hospital, meaning a mental institution in general then defined as a scene of chaos and confusion, with or without Oklahoma and Ok State.

Historically and in general, people needing care the most are most often ignored and are ripe for abuse, deposited into a created and then neglected system of "more patients, for a longer time = more grants and money and tax dollars." It's not working but give us more money and time. But especially money. Legislators and most citizens agree because "just take care of it. I don't really want to know."

One solution that could work is providing a relatively isolated area, still enclosed and secured for safety of course, but give actual care. There are people "too far gone" perhaps but there are also those with acute and not chronic issues that can be restored with a combination of substance treatment if needed, good nutrition, exercise, work and activities to improve their state of mind and only using mild sedatives when absolutely necessary -- not massive doses of chemicals with their own litany of side effects and potentially addictive outcomes.

[Bevo 13904]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

Maybe you should Melt Homeless People into Biomatter?

I thought homeless people were already biomatter.

[MissingInAction 25566]

DPS was back at Cameron and 290 bulldozing the cunts. 

 

[Armybrat 41426]

4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's a fair point, but is it too much to think that for what we spend on prisons we could have long term residential care facilities that weren't horrible? 

Wish we could, but look at how many elderly are treated in some of the “budget” nursing homes. 
It would be a massive & costly undertaking and well worth the effort, IMO.

Those that are not in the mentally ill demographic and have criminal rap sheets instead should be prosecuted when arrested & put on chain gangs to keep the streets & highways clean.

[Blotto 24039]

1 hour ago, gofuckyourself said:

Out of college I did some investigations of mental hospitals, both government/state run and private. I watched hundreds of hours of undercover raid footage and hidden camera reports of people being treated worse than animals, all over the country. Internationally it wasn't much better, with European hospital raid footage that stirs up pure rage and disgust. Places covered in feces and urine while hospital administrators kept the government money.

It's been a while, "way back" in the 1990s, when a lot of those raids happened and shut down the facilities. I'd like to think it's all in the past, but I wouldn't be shocked if it's only covered up better in some cases. The elderly in particular, and kids, are susceptible to an often fucked-up system.

Historically it's both fascinating and depressing. Even "bedlam" as a term came from Bethlehem Royal hospital, meaning a mental institution in general then defined as a scene of chaos and confusion, with or without Oklahoma and Ok State.

TIL that the OU/OSU series is named bedlam, not because the game is often chaotic and confusing, but because both fanbases are frequently covered in feces and urine. 

It makes sense. 

[Pig Bellmont 8887]

5 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's a fair point, but is it too much to think that for what we spend on prisons we could have long term residential care facilities that weren't horrible? 

Are you talking about the prisons in TX without air conditioning? Or some other allegedly not horrible option?

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2692]

There's an incredible documentary you can (sometimes) find on YouTube, though the video is poor quality. It's The Cramps playing the Napa State Mental Hospital in 1978.

The narration explains the context. The place used to be self-sufficient, and it was available for anyone who just didn't have the mental/emotional fortitude to make it in society. They grew their own food, made their own clothes. There seemed to be a general respect for the people there as human beings. Then Reagan came along, saw a profit opportunity, and privatized the shit out of it with contracts for his cronies. Ultimately, he decided those places should just be defunded, and we all know that policy won the day during his presidency. It's sad shit. I get that it's only one side of the story, but never forget Reagan's assholery.

And it's really quite something to see the wards of the hospital interacting up close and personal with the band.

[Neonmoon 38130]

6 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

no one would want to work there.  the job description would boil down to being a prison guard and nurse rolled into one with worse security measures.

I said without the abuse and prison format. There is a way to separate and treat mentally ill people without resorting to the Stanford experiment. No lobotomizing. No sterilization. No white rooms and nurse ratchet. These people can’t function in society, so right now it’s either prison or homeless 

[safe sex 12036]

Gotta be willing to properly fund it and properly pay the people willing to work there

[Sawbonz 28239]

The problem with expansion of mental institutions is many/most people who truly need to be there cannot comprehend why they need to be there and absolutely do not want to be there. The meds that keep them from being frankly psychotic have horrible side effects so they refuse to take them. That means forcing the meds on them and/or physical restraints. They end up not there for treatment but rather warehousing. It is truly horrific for “patients” and staff. From a medical ethics standpoint it is a classic autonomy vs beneficence conflict. Then add what is good for society vs the individual on top of that. 

[scottsins 2047]

Fuck the Travis County DA's office. 
https://www.fox7austin.com/news/southwest-austin-texas-rami-zawaideh-felony-charges-rejected-residents-outraged
They refuse to do anything about homeless assholes. It's a revolving door to let them continue to wreck havoc on the city and county. 

A criminal prosecution under these facts is a losing proposition every time. He needs an involuntary commitment to a facility. No idea where that process has been for this guy, but it’s not usually the DA’s purview.

[scottsins 2047]

A criminal prosecution under these facts is a losing proposition every time. He needs an involuntary commitment to a facility. No idea where that process has been for this guy, but it’s not usually the DA’s purview.

To clarify;

This particular defendant would not be competent to stand trial, and the facilities that restore people to competency…so that they can actually be taken to court and punished…are full AF. Furthermore, there’s going to be a not guilty by reason of insanity defense asserted (not the same as competency). Garza SUCKS. I don’t disagree. But this particular incident speaks to this state’s ineptness and unwillingness to deal with the mental health crisis.

*. I worked as a prosecutor in mental health specialty courts, and it’s frustrating AF. No CR but no one that matters wants to spend money on fixing the problem.

[Covri 6369]

On 6/29/2023 at 3:10 PM, sasquatch69 said:

This got brought up in the Titanic submersible thread for some reason, but it seemed more apropo for this one.  My question:  Where the heck is this skate park-looking concrete ramp and stairwell structure under Mopac?  Can't recall ever seeing it and it's not easily identifiable from Google Maps.  

 

 

On 6/29/2023 at 3:36 PM, Wally Pryor said:

Yeah, same question. I drive it often and don't recall seeing this / anything close to it. 

 

On 6/29/2023 at 3:41 PM, YGIFS said:

I assume it's in those concrete pockets at that convoluted intersection at 45th under MoPac.  If somebody can explain the physics of that truck ended up like that, please enlighten us.  

 

I didn’t see if this was answered but it was just north of the mopac/290 split in south Austin, my bother got caught up in its traffic mess and saw people running to help.

 

[crash_davis 23470]

Jim Spencer is not taking retirement well.

https://www.ftvlive.com/sqsp-test/2023/7/17/cops-camp-the-cuffs-on-longtime-austin-anchor?format=amp

Longtime KXAN (Austin) Jim Spencer was arrested for DWI early in the morning yesterday.

Spencer, who has been with the station for over 3 decades, was arrested by Austin Police and taken to the Travis County Jail, and booked shortly after 1:30 AM.

[Orange&White 5573]

What kind of asshole arrests Jim Spencer? The dude is an Austin institution.

He should have called Jeff Ward, and had Jeff call Rosemary, and have Rosemary call Art, and got himself released.

[crash_davis 23470]

17 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

What kind of asshole arrests Jim Spencer? The dude is an Austin institution.

He should have called Jeff Ward, and had Jeff call Rosemary, and have Rosemary call Art, and got himself released.

I bet this asshole had something to do with it.

[PvilleStang 3001]

Not a violent enough offense, DA let's him walk.

[Deej 77856]

3 hours ago, PvilleStang said:

Not a violent enough offense, DA let's him walk.

Nope. He has money and a roof over his head. He's getting the book thrown at him.

[Js1 87223]

Personally, I find drunk drivers much more dangerous than homeless people. 

[crash_davis 23470]

Some Instagram infludouche put up this sign on 183. Lulz, he's so late to the party that he has a 737 area code. 512 for life, bro!!!!!!

[Brian Fantana 6874]

54 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Personally, I find drunk drivers much more dangerous than homeless people. 

But you don't have to LOOK at the drunk driver

[PvilleStang 3001]

55 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

But you don't have to LOOK at the drunk driver

WRONG: 

 

[CooterBrown 18289]

On 7/14/2023 at 7:43 AM, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's a fair point, but is it too much to think that for what we spend on prisons we could have long term residential care facilities that weren't horrible? 

Let the prison corporations run mental residential facilities and we'd have 100% bipartisan support for mental health at unprecedented funding levels.