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Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

LTtxfan

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It's a large Texas forum. Every thread will largely be dominated by Texas posters. This is news? Not only that, it's funny in some form? My view is that the Big 12 will be fine as the 4th of 4 la

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Nivek

Nivek 16916

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Please God no.  The Big 12 needs to die.

I am torn. I like the idea of the big 12 refs still working their games, and the big 12 falling losing its status, and I like the idea of it being blown up and hoping those fuckheads in the officiating and conference office never find work again.
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Samson's Wig

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11 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

TCU...  Maybe AAC Bound ???  

Realignment rumors should concern TCU fans

With Texas and OU apparently in talks with the SEC, teams like TCU, Baylor, and Oklahoma State have reasons to worry.

By Melissa B. Triebwasser@TheCoachMelissa  Jul 22, 2021

image.png.02fbebef16938db3cbbe1758be93cef0.png

Jealousy is a spiteful b*tch, isn’t it?

Jealousy drove Texas A&M to the SEC, where they’ve finished above .500 in conference play just three times, but have raked in the cash and the five star recruits. Just ask Ross Bjork, who said “There’s a reason Texas A&M left the Big 12 — to stand alone & have our own identity. That’s our feeling.”

Now, it appears that jealousy might be driving the Longhorns to follow their most bitter rival, as rumors began swirling (again) Wednesday that both Texas and Oklahoma are having hot and heavy conversations with the Southeastern Conference ahead of expected realignment when TV contracts come do in 2025.

It’s an interesting decision for one of the country’s wealthiest universities; with seemingly an endless supply of cash. Money doesn’t feel like the main motivating factor for the Horns, and with just one double digit win season in their last 11 tries, it can’t be because they want a raised competition level. It likely comes down to recruiting; when it comes to the battles between the Longhorns and Aggies, dangling that SEC carrot has helped A&M land the better recruiting class in each of the last two years as Jimbo Fisher has begun to pick up steam in the Lone Star State.

Chris Del Conte got TCU to the Big 12. Now CDC might be slamming the door on their future. Oh, the irony.

For Oklahoma, the SEC has always been the golden ticket. Under Lincoln Riley, the Sooners are in or at least in the conversation for the College Football Playoffs annually, and though they haven’t broken through for a win, they have no reason to be scared. They probably look around the state of the SEC as currently constructed and feel like there are really only 2-4 teams annually that they would really have to gear up for, which isn’t much different than what they’re facing in the Big 12.

As far as the SEC side? They definitely are willing to listen.

But, we will let the Longhorns and the Sooners worry about what they are going to do if/when they get there, the real question is what does this mean for the rest of us?

The first question is, can the Big 12 be saved?

Should the remaining eight programs band together and try and reconstruct the conference, their first calls would likely be to SMU, Houston, and some combination of Memphis/Cincinnati/UCF/USF. The Mustangs couldn’t be thirstier for a Power Five invite (don’t let their fanbase tell you otherwise), but there might be some hurt feelings amongst the rest, who have tried, and failed, to secure an invite to the Big 12 multiple times over the last several years. Ultimately, if the conference can go to ESPN/FOX/Bally whatever/whoever else and sell them on a deal that pays each member school upwards of the $20 million annually they’re getting, well, that’s a lot more than the $7 million AAC teams currently receive. Maybe the TV deal won’t be quite as fruitful without the carrots of Texas and OU, but it’s still going to be eight figures, and more than the AAC. And if you count in the markets that Houston, SMU, and Memphis bring? It’s attractive-ish.

They’ll take the money if it’s offered, period.

But what if the Big 12 can’t be saved?

Just a few years ago, TCU was in a great position, a university with several sports that would be attractive to other power conferences. But with a football program that’s slogged to barely .500 records the last three years and a basketball team that had more transfers this past season than they have postseason wins in the last ten, it’s hard feel super confident that someone like the Pac 12 or Big Ten is going to leap in and save the day. TCU fits in the PAC 12 in some regards — hell, half their freshmen classes seem to come from CA at this point. Geographically it’s not a terrible fit, and it would be easy to develop some natural rivalries in short order. I could see a scenario where the Horned Frogs and Baylor go west as a package deal, forming a division that features the two Arizona schools, Colorado, USC, and UCLA. That’s fun. Or maybe the conference decides to bring in the Texas version of ASU in Tech and Oklahoma State because they feel sorry for them, and become a 16 team super-ish conference that would be well positioned both fiscally and geographically.

Or maybe they tell us to eff off and let the Big 12 die on the vine so that they’re no longer the misfit of the Power Five.

Iowa State fans seem pretty confident that the Big Ten will save them — the Cyclones and Kansas boast AAU designations academically that will qualify them to land North. We don’t know, but ISU to the B10 makes sense on paper. West Virginia should have been an ACC school from the start, and could easily land there if they decide to expand. But for the schools in the middle — especially the small private universities — the fear is real.

If, as it’s rumored to be, both Texas and Oklahoma inform Bob Bowlsby next week that they have no intention of resigning with the league, we will spend the next two years — or more — in a space of suspended animation, wondering what our future as Frog fans will look like.

After so many decades in the desert and just a few short years enjoying the promised land, the thought of being nomads again is anxiety-inducing to say the least.

And to add insult to injury? Don’t forget that Gary Patterson’s current contract is set to expire after the 2024 season, something sure to factor in when the interview process for realignment begins.

It’s going to be a long four years friends. Buckle up.

(and let’s take it out on Texas, again, come football season) 

 

 

This is kind of amazing. This person doesn't get paid to cover sports, do they?  Because nothing in this write up indicates they have a clue how any of this works.  TCU was never, and will never, be in a position to be attractive to power conferences.  They back-doored into a desperate Big12 in failing last gasp to save it.  A smattering of alumni and no real fan base isn't exactly a recipe for bringing dollars to the table. 

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Xminus6

Xminus6 790

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3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

How is that?

Seems like everyone is talking about picking over the carcass of the Big 12. If the PAC wants to expand into the TX market, then they're not going to take Baylor and might not take TCU, if not because of their loose religious affiliation, just because they're too small to be useful. UH is the next best TX market school to take. They're large, they're in a major metro and they were sort of on the verge of continued relevance when we stole MENSA from them. Without UT blocking their entry into our conference, they stand to be one of the more attractive expansion candidates it seems.

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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3 minutes ago, Xminus6 said:

Seems like everyone is talking about picking over the carcass of the Big 12. If the PAC wants to expand into the TX market, then they're not going to take Baylor and might not take TCU, if not because of their loose religious affiliation, just because they're too small to be useful. UH is the next best TX market school to take. They're large, they're in a major metro and they were sort of on the verge of continued relevance when we stole MENSA from them. Without UT blocking their entry into our conference, they stand to be one of the more attractive expansion candidates it seems.

Counterpoint: UH is a commuter school. If anyone thought they could bring the Houston TV market, then they would have been asked to join a conference a long time ago. 

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Xminus6

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38 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Counterpoint: UH is a commuter school. If anyone thought they could bring the Houston TV market, then they would have been asked to join a conference a long time ago. 

Sure. I understand that. But three potential is there for UH, especially with rich motivated alum.

Maybe I’m being naive, but having a big alumni base means you only need a few years and/or flashy stars and those alumni will convert from or add to their fandom. 

Now with NIL, Fertitta can go big on a few star players to try to drum up excitement. 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49142

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2 minutes ago, HornsOverIthaca said:

And I say, "Hey, Texas & OU, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And they says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

 

 

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LTtxfan

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Super Powers: What Four 16-Team Conferences Could Look Like

Could OU-Texit™ start be the first domino to the Era of Super Conferences?

Published   16 hours ago  July 23     By:  Kyle Cox 

 

   ACC                            B10                        PAC                              SEC

  Big SixTeen Pac-16 SEC
Boston College Illinois Arizona Alabama
Clemson Indiana Arizona State Arkansas
Duke Iowa Boise State Auburn
Florida State Kansas California Florida
Georgia Tech Kansas State Colorado Georgia
Louisville Maryland Iowa State Kentucky
Miami Michigan Oklahoma State LSU
North Carolina Michigan State Oregon Mississippi
North Carolina State Minnesota Oregon State Mississippi State
Notre Dame Nebraska Southern California Missouri
Pittsburgh Northwestern Stanford Oklahoma
Syracuse Ohio State Texas Tech South Carolina
Virginia Penn State UCLA Tennessee
Virginia Tech Purdue Utah Texas
Wake Forest Rutgers Washington Texas A&M
West Virginia Wisconsin Washington State Vanderbilt

 

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/super-powers-what-four-16-team-conferences-could-look-like/

 

Edited by LTtxfan
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Dirk X West

Dirk X West 772

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10 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Super Powers: What Four 16-Team Conferences Could Look Like

Could OU-Texit™ start be the first domino to the Era of Super Conferences?

Published   16 hours ago  July 23     By:  Kyle Cox 

 

   ACC                            B10                        PAC                              SEC

  Big SixTeen Pac-16 SEC
Boston College Illinois Arizona Alabama
Clemson Indiana Arizona State Arkansas
Duke Iowa Boise State Auburn
Florida State Kansas California Florida
Georgia Tech Kansas State Colorado Georgia
Louisville Maryland Iowa State Kentucky
Miami Michigan Oklahoma State LSU
North Carolina Michigan State Oregon Mississippi
North Carolina State Minnesota Oregon State Mississippi State
Notre Dame Nebraska Southern California Missouri
Pittsburgh Northwestern Stanford Oklahoma
Syracuse Ohio State Texas Tech South Carolina
Virginia Penn State UCLA Tennessee
Virginia Tech Purdue Utah Texas
Wake Forest Rutgers Washington Texas A&M
West Virginia Wisconsin Washington State Vanderbilt

 

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/super-powers-what-four-16-team-conferences-could-look-like/

 

What people like this blog writer seem to be misunderstanding is the impetus from TV money is not to just narrow it down to four leagues with an equal number of teams.  That may be part of it, but to me, this moment is more about the start of cutting down the total number of power conference teams. I understand that fans of the usual G5 power teams (BYU, Boise, UCF, whoever) are seeing this as opportunity for them.  It is, inasmuch as they might ultimately hook up with some better football schools who have been relegated from a P5 to form a much stronger best mid major league than currently exists.  The idea, though, that one of that current G5 teams is going to get a seat at the table now, or in the next 5 years, seems very unlikely to me, and even if one someone does, that'll be because yet another current P5 team got culled.  

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Neonmoon

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35 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Super Powers: What Four 16-Team Conferences Could Look Like

Could OU-Texit™ start be the first domino to the Era of Super Conferences?

Published   16 hours ago  July 23     By:  Kyle Cox 

 

   ACC                            B10                        PAC                              SEC

  Big SixTeen Pac-16 SEC
Boston College Illinois Arizona Alabama
Clemson Indiana Arizona State Arkansas
Duke Iowa Boise State Auburn
Florida State Kansas California Florida
Georgia Tech Kansas State Colorado Georgia
Louisville Maryland Iowa State Kentucky
Miami Michigan Oklahoma State LSU
North Carolina Michigan State Oregon Mississippi
North Carolina State Minnesota Oregon State Mississippi State
Notre Dame Nebraska Southern California Missouri
Pittsburgh Northwestern Stanford Oklahoma
Syracuse Ohio State Texas Tech South Carolina
Virginia Penn State UCLA Tennessee
Virginia Tech Purdue Utah Texas
Wake Forest Rutgers Washington Texas A&M
West Virginia Wisconsin Washington State Vanderbilt

 

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/super-powers-what-four-16-team-conferences-could-look-like/

 

I think this is spot on. The only change I would make would be switching ISU with KSU. But I could see both scenarios 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49142

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Our B12 Brethren starting to show their true colors... 

Cross-posting....  Thanks for all this @ztejas 

20210724_030025.jpg

 Ztejas quote:  "Man... the Texas hate really does run deep - and not just among our rivals. It's funny getting all of this out in the open. Fuck the B12."

 

20210724_030800.jpg 

20210724_030746.jpg

Ztejas quote:  "This is all from the college basketball subreddit, btw. I don't really care what anyone there thinks but it's funny to see a thread about Kansas reaching out to the B10 devolve into random fanbases hating on Texas (the Creighton fan talking shit about Texas football is particularly hilarious... historically they don't even have a decent basketball program)"

 

Funny Note -- when I typed Ztejas,  autocorrect changes it to Syria's  

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LTtxfan

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24 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

What people like this blog writer seem to be misunderstanding is the impetus from TV money is not to just narrow it down to four leagues with an equal number of teams.  That may be part of it, but to me, this moment is more about the start of cutting down the total number of power conference teams. I understand that fans of the usual G5 power teams (BYU, Boise, UCF, whoever) are seeing this as opportunity for them.  It is, inasmuch as they might ultimately hook up with some better football schools who have been relegated from a P5 to form a much stronger best mid major league than currently exists.  The idea, though, that one of that current G5 teams is going to get a seat at the table now, or in the next 5 years, seems very unlikely to me, and even if one someone does, that'll be because yet another current P5 team got culled.  

Yeah, if the PAC-12 and ACC want to remain relevant, they better quickly get some type of agreement with the BIG 10 for a plan of 4 conferences with 16 members each.

Otherwise, all that may be left standing when the music stops are two major confernces: 

  • SEC 
  • BIG 10
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Dirk X West

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1 minute ago, LTtxfan said:

Yeah, if the PAC-12 and ACC want to remain relevant, they better quickly get some type of agreement with the BIG 10 for a plan of 4 conferences with 16 members each.

Otherwise, all that may be left standing when the music stops are two major confernces: 

  • SEC 
  • BIG 10

Yeah, I don't see how adding just anybody necessarily moves the needle much for the Pac especially.  I mean, didn't the Big 12 look at expanding and not do it because the TV people said it wouldn't make the league more valuable?  I don't see how that logic doesn't still apply.  

Again, the movement here is for leagues to collect as many big commodities as possible, and there's a finite amount of big commodities.  

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Pato del Muerto

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9 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Yeah, I don't see how adding just anybody necessarily moves the needle much for the Pac especially.  I mean, didn't the Big 12 look at expanding and not do it because the TV people said it wouldn't make the league more valuable?  I don't see how that logic doesn't still apply.  

Again, the movement here is for leagues to collect as many big commodities as possible, and there's a finite amount of big commodities.  

The addition of a promotion/relegation component would be interesting. 
 

I mean it doesn’t make sense in this context even though some universities field different sports teams in different athletic conferences when needed, but as a hypothetical football only exercise it would be interesting to see how that would work. 

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LTtxfan

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11 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

Yeah, I don't see how adding just anybody necessarily moves the needle much for the Pac especially.  I mean, didn't the Big 12 look at expanding and not do it because the TV people said it wouldn't make the league more valuable?  I don't see how that logic doesn't still apply.  

Again, the movement here is for leagues to collect as many big commodities as possible, and there's a finite amount of big commodities.  

 

Good points...  So, based on your comments, two Super Conferences is probably gonna happen.  What is the optimal number in each ??

Some teams that probably get poached...

  • Notre Dame
  • Clemson
  • USC
  • Oregon
  • Florida State
  • Miami

 

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Dirk X West

Dirk X West 772

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10 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Good points...  So, based on your comments, two Super Conferences is probably gonna happen.  What is the optimal number in each ??

Some teams that probably get poached...

  • Notre Dame
  • Clemson
  • USC
  • Oregon
  • Florida State
  • Miami

 

I'm not personally very interested debating these possibilities, but I think this question is much more relevant in terms of what might actually happen than "how do we get all current P5 teams into four leagues?". 

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petscii

petscii 1189

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1 hour ago, markstanco said:


How random. I can think of two dozen away baseball games I would attend before even thinking about attending a game just west of Detroit.

my better half is from Kalamazoo.   I try not to travel unless Texas baseball  (or Whataburger) is involved...  Having said that I've never been to Michigan.

I also suspect I've been to 70% of the college baseball places of your two dozen.  Spoiler alert, I've never been to fucking lubbock/kansas/or oklahoma games either... :)

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Nicole44

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A rising tide floats all boats

I posted in realignment also or cross posted or whatever. The other conferences will make moves and offer invites but those won’t be official IMO until the OU/TX to the SEC is done or at least the intent for both to leave is official. 

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Nicole44

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It doesn’t hurt to be aggressive. PAC 12 commish seems somewhat clueless…waiting on an invite from them could be a mistake. B1G still has that academic snobbery shit going on…if we do go to super conferences eventually I could see the AAC and some of the ACC merging. Taking all 8 schools if the AAC can pull it off is a good move for their conference. At least they are trying to be aggressive. I respect that. Gotta adapt. Things are definitely never going to be the same. Have to have some foresight. 

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DFW Horn

DFW Horn 6123

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10 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

It doesn’t hurt to be aggressive. PAC 12 commish seems somewhat clueless…waiting on an invite from them could be a mistake. B1G still has that academic snobbery shit going on…if we do go to super conferences eventually I could see the AAC and some of the ACC merging. Taking all 8 schools if the AAC can pull it off is a good move for their conference. At least they are trying to be aggressive. I respect that. Gotta adapt. Things are definitely never going to be the same. Have to have some foresight. 

As the Big 12 learned, the problem with adding teams is you're just splitting up the same size pie into smaller pieces. AAC currently has 10 football playing members. Will TV make it worth their while to add more? Do BU and TCU add value? Probably, but how much?

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The Other White Meat

The Other White Meat 39

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I think for the PAC it shouldn't be about increasing the size of the pie necessarily but about expanding into the central timezone to gain more visibility on the national stage. Add a couple of programs like Tech and  OkSt that are respectable enough to keep the pie relatively the same size but now you have kickoffs that people on the east coast might actually see.

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