Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[mdmost 43,001]

 

[LTtxfan 49,147]

TOADS... 

 

 

[Doyle Hargreaves 301]

Tech will be fine. All campuses, Medical Schools and Law School are well ahead of endowment targets. I think now that the gloves are off, we should go ahead and actively pursue amending the PUF. Of course, you all will see that as some kind of gotcha. Its not. You all can live well off your football money. The rest of the state can benefit from the PUF now. Seems like a win/win to me:) 

[TKthunder2 4,985]

2 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

TOADS... 

 

 

Can’t argue too much, still fuck the cockroaches.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,180]

9 hours ago, campcrunk said:

Quoting this because it's absolutely music to my ears. Couldn't happen to a better group. 

Wouldn't they fit in with the B1G with their track record of inappropriate touchy-feely, tho? Seems like a no-brainer 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

10 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

TOADS... 

 

 

[Had Enough 2,079]

Said it before and I'll say it again, I think Tech and oSu would do really well in the Pac 12. 
 

With some of these low $ projections and less than stellar TV ratings, would Tech be served well to negotiate an unequal revenue share for admittance to the PAC?

Something that would give them more $ than the Big 12 or AAC. It’s get them better positioned for any future realignment. It may also assist in forging a different identity. The Premier PAC school in Texas.

[Dnaguy 11,920]

2 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

With some of these low $ projections and less than stellar TV ratings, would Tech be served well to negotiate an unequal revenue share for admittance to the PAC?

Something that would give them more $ than the Big 12 or AAC. It’s get them better positioned for any future realignment. It may also assist in forging a different identity. The Premier PAC school in Texas.

Even with the PAC12's shit TV deal, it's >>> better than the $10 mil / school the Big12 will likely get w/ the orphan 8 + UH and UCF.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

7 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

With some of these low $ projections and less than stellar TV ratings, would Tech be served well to negotiate an unequal revenue share for admittance to the PAC?

Something that would give them more $ than the Big 12 or AAC. It’s get them better positioned for any future realignment. It may also assist in forging a different identity. The Premier PAC school in Texas.

Tech and OSU should whatever the fuck is necessary, including butt stuff, to get into the PAC-12. The Big 12 is dead. A new big 12 with more shitty teams and/or joining the shit AAC is like 7-9 million a school. That is down from 37 million. Imagine cutting 80% of your athletic budget. 

[mdmost 43,001]

I think if Tech and oSu go to the Pac 12, the Pac 12 will divide the divisions into East and West vs. the current North and South. If that puts Tech and oSu with Colorado, Utah, the Arizonas, and Washington State, Tech and oSu can easily win that division and do really well. You have to think the Pac 8 are going to want to somewhat stay the Pac 8 with new additions they may hold their nose and add. I remember that being a worry when the Pac 10 move was knocked around. The old Pac 8 would be snooty and try to shove us out of California. 

[Guest]

I like that scenario.

There is history with Tech and the Arizona schools predating the SWC when Tech was in the Border Conference.  For whatever the hell that’s worth.

[Dirk X West 772]

1 hour ago, HookEm said:

Lol. It doesn't matter that K-State got $40M a year from being in the Big-12 vs. $7M for Houston?  

All that money goes to coaches, facility upgrades, marketing, recruiting.... but apparently it doesn't generate wins.  Give Houston $40M a year and Big-12 association and you would see a different product on the field.

Are you operating under the assumption that every team within each league has identical athletics budgets?  

Edited July 27, 2021 by Dirk X West

[Guest Lobo]

I'm morbidly curious about which fanbase/hostile stadium/officiating crew will fuck with us the worst this season---TCU, Baylor, Iowa State, or WVU? 

By the time these games roll around, some of those schools will have made significant overtures to other conferences (Iowa State to Big 10, WVU to ACC).  TCU and Baylor might be the most fucked of anybody in our league long-term, along with K-State.  The Wildcats just don't bring eyeballs, no academic appeal, shithole town, and they picked a bad 3-year stretch to be shitty at football, hoops, and baseball.  I guess those three schools can stick around and try and attract 5 others and at least get an 8-team league going again.  

[Huckleberry 32,850]

11 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I think if Tech and oSu go to the Pac 12, the Pac 12 will divide the divisions into East and West vs. the current North and South. If that puts Tech and oSu with Colorado, Utah, the Arizonas, and Washington State, Tech and oSu can easily win that division and do really well. You have to think the Pac 8 are going to want to somewhat stay the Pac 8 with new additions they may hold their nose and add. I remember that being a worry when the Pac 10 move was knocked around. The old Pac 8 would be snooty and try to shove us out of California. 

Yes, east-west would make sense but as you note it means one of the 8 west coast schools would have to split off from the rest. That would be quite an argument because they're all paired.

Cal-Stanford
UCLA-USC
UW-WSU
UO-OSU

Somebody talk the Pac-12 into also adding two more schools.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Huckleberry

[Sbbruin 21,830]

51 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Said it before and I'll say it again, I think Tech and oSu would do really well in the Pac 12. 

 

Apparently along with Baylor and TCU

[Doyle Hargreaves 301]

I could see the other 3 conferences blowing up and forming a super league. 
 

some more pain is coming. 

[Dirk X West 772]

1 minute ago, Doyle Hargreaves said:

I could see the other 3 conferences blowing up and forming a super league. 
 

some more pain is coming. 

Yeah, I've said before, but once again, it seems to me that the trajectory of college football realignment is not going to be about moving chairs around but rather about reducing the number of chairs at the table.  The leftover 8 aren't the last schools who are going to get cut out of the top tier.

[Huckleberry 32,850]

4 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Apparently along with Baylor and TCU

66-3 is one thing, but if you fuckers give Baylor a life raft I'll finally hate you.

[Huckleberry 32,850]

1 minute ago, Dirk X West said:

Yeah, I've said before, but once again, it seems to me that the trajectory of college football realignment is not going to be about moving chairs around but rather about reducing the number of chairs at the table.  The leftover 8 aren't the last schools who are going to get cut out of the top tier.

There is more filler in other conferences. Texas Tech, Iowa State, etc. should be begging for the complete reorganization to happen very, very soon. They absolutely belong in a final 64 re-org more than Washington State, Rutgers, etc.

[Guest]

I don’t want them either.  That’s one part I REALLY liked about Mid’s scenario above.

[Dnaguy 11,920]

7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yes, east-west would make sense but as you note it means one of the 8 west coast schools would have to split off from the rest. That would be quite an argument because they're all paired.

Cal-Stanford
UCLA-USC
UW-WSU
UO-OSU

Somebody talk the Pac-12 into also adding two more schools.

 

They'd keep it North / South to guarantee Caly access to all schools.

 

Norf:

Wash

Wash St

Oregon 

Org St

Cal

Stanford

Utah

Souf:

UCLA

USC

Ariz

Ariz St

Colorado

Tech

OSU

 

[Huckleberry 32,850]

Just now, Dnaguy said:

 

They'd keep it North / South to guarantee Caly access to all schools.

 

Norf:

Wash

Wash St

Oregon 

Org St

Cal

Stanford

Utah

Souf:

UCLA

USC

Ariz

Ariz St

Colorado

Tech

OSU

 

That would definitely make more sense for that set of 14 schools.

[Dnaguy 11,920]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

That would definitely make more sense for that set of 14 schools.

East - West works if they also 2 more and get to 16.

[Doyle Hargreaves 301]

There is no 64 team thing. Its going to be decided in Bristol, Connecticut by a handful of executives. Fox can just go all in on NFL and then CFB is beholden to ESPN. Is that 30? 50? Depends on how many slices and how big the slice. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

The PAC 12 is not adding Baylor. That’s silly. Cougar high has a better shot than them. 

[Dirk X West 772]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

There is more filler in other conferences. Texas Tech, Iowa State, etc. should be begging for the complete reorganization to happen very, very soon. They absolutely belong in a final 64 re-org more than Washington State, Rutgers, etc.

It would nice if there was some rational re-examination of all the teams who could possibly play in a re-organized top tier of CFB, with clear, objective reasons given for who belongs and who doesn't (and even maybe some mechanism for promotion to give the teams who get left out some hope of being included in the future), but this shit is far too unorganized for that to happen - and there are too many schools that benefit from the current set up to allow for it.

[Huckleberry 32,850]

1 minute ago, Doyle Hargreaves said:

There is no 64 team thing. Its going to be decided in Bristol, Connecticut by a handful of executives. Fox can just go all in on NFL and then CFB is beholden to ESPN. Is that 30? 50? Depends on how many slices and how big the slice. 

There's not but there could be. 30 isn't nearly enough, 64 is about as low as you could go before alumni start rebelling against he idea. If you take the top 30 teams into a separate league then they're going to start losing donations like mad because some very good programs are going to start going 3-9 for several years in a row. That will be covered by TV/streaming contracts but will eventually damage alumni relations which would have a long-term negative effect on the programs.

I think 80 is a better number long term for all involved but think it will get squeezed below that. But there are going to be some major unforeseen consequences.

[Doyle Hargreaves 301]

Tech in Pac-12 After dark will be fun if it happens. Would love that scene. 

[Doyle Hargreaves 301]

Good point Huck. Fan bases are the forgotten entity here. 

[C-Man 27,196]

The PAC 12 is not adding Baylor. That’s silly. Cougar high has a better shot than them. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,180]

I can see Okie Lite to the PAC because their offense is good and they offer upsets and wins, but what does Tech offer? Just another average to below average school? It just doesn't make sense when they already have ASU and Oregon State. It seems like it would be a weird add. 

[tokamak 6,395]

17 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

There's not but there could be. 30 isn't nearly enough, 64 is about as low as you could go before alumni start rebelling against he idea. If you take the top 30 teams into a separate league then they're going to start losing donations like mad because some very good programs are going to start going 3-9 for several years in a row. That will be covered by TV/streaming contracts but will eventually damage alumni relations which would have a long-term negative effect on the programs.

I think 80 is a better number long term for all involved but think it will get squeezed below that. But there are going to be some major unforeseen consequences.

I’m not so sure. I’ve long thought that there were a lot of interesting parallels between college football and the structure of European soccer. I think this is the European Super League all over again, with the key difference being that it’s happening in slow motion instead of all at once. Those huge clubs had to know that they’d have some lean years in the Super League, but they must’ve recognized that that’s preferable to being in the “lower tier” with no chance to win the “top” championship. 

[alincoln 2,371]

There is no reason for the other Power 5 conferences to add any of the remaining Big 12 schools at this time. 

Baylor has no chance to ever join another Power 5 conference and KSU is likely similarly fucked.  

The Pac represents the only alternative Power 5 option for Tech, TCU and Okie State and all would dilute existing revenue.  There is no reason for the Pac to add any of them in the near term.  If circumstances develop such that the Pac needs to add schools, each would be available at the time of the Pac's choosing.

Iowa State and WVU are in the same position vis a vis the BIG and ACC, respectively.  No need to take them now but they are options when and if they are needed by those conferences.

KU basketball provides them with two possible landing spots in the BIG and ACC and perhaps they could play them off against one another to obtain an invite but basketball alone probably doesn't move the needle enough.

An expanded Big 12 including some smattering of shit strikes me as the most likely solution until the Great Shakeup occurs.  

[Dnaguy 11,920]

7 minutes ago, alincoln said:

There is no reason for the other Power 5 conferences to add any of the remaining Big 12 schools at this time. 

Baylor has no chance to ever join another Power 5 conference and KSU is likely similarly fucked.  

The Pac represents the only alternative Power 5 option for Tech, TCU and Okie State and all would dilute existing revenue.  There is no reason for the Pac to add any of them in the near term.  If circumstances develop such that the Pac needs to add schools, each would be available at the time of the Pac's choosing.

Iowa State and WVU are in the same position vis a vis the BIG and ACC, respectively.  No need to take them now but they are options when and if they are needed by those conferences.

KU basketball provides them with two possible landing spots in the BIG and ACC and perhaps they could play them off against one another to obtain an invite but basketball alone probably doesn't move the needle enough.

An expanded Big 12 including some smattering of shit strikes me as the most likely solution until the Great Shakeup occurs.  

The PAC12 only brings TCU if they've already brought UH.

UH has a better shot than TCU IMO.

Like you said earlier... and it can't be said enough..... Baylor is turbofucked.

And it couldn't happen to a more deserving school.

 

[Dirk X West 772]

14 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I’m not so sure. I’ve long thought that there were a lot of interesting parallels between college football and the structure of European soccer. I think this is the European Super League all over again, with the key difference being that it’s happening in slow motion instead of all at once. Those huge clubs had to know that they’d have some lean years in the Super League, but they must’ve recognized that that’s preferable to being in the “lower tier” with no chance to win the “top” championship. 

There are parallels, but the biggest difference, which is something goes beyond just football, is that fans all across Europe - including fans of the big clubs who would have been included in the Super League - said the super league was grossly unfair and went and against the whole spirit of competition in football (soccer) where teams that invest and try to succeed get rewarded while those that don't get punished.  While it's not been unanimous, the consensus reaction - from fans of P5 schools and from fans of G5 schools - to the "other 8" schools getting left behind has been "haha, they fucking suck and deserve to get relegated".  That's the American mentality. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Dirk X West

[Okie State 3,815]

Someone should tell us why the PAC/B1G/ACC should/should not add the Big 12 leftovers.

[clapclapclap 9,000]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

Said it before and I'll say it again, I think Tech and oSu would do really well in the Pac 12. 

 

 

That self-described journalist is...different.

 

VA Tech fans hate him and think he's a fake.

https://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2020/december/7/regarding-w-keith-friedman-and-psa-about-fake-twitter-accounts

[Js1 85,296]

22 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

I can see Okie Lite to the PAC because their offense is good and they offer upsets and wins, but what does Tech offer? Just another average to below average school? It just doesn't make sense when they already have ASU and Oregon State. It seems like it would be a weird add. 

Guaranteed games in Texas.

That's it. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,180]

Just now, Js1 said:

Guaranteed games in Texas.

That's it. 

Yeah, true. But man that's sad. It's  like the aggy to sec to get their foot in the door, but at least they're better than those imps

[Nicole44 22,059]

5 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Someone should tell us why the PAC/B1G/ACC should/should not add the Big 12 leftovers.

Based on the PAC 12’s big partnership with potato chips and incredibly dumb statements today…I wouldn’t count on them. They are probably about to lose four key members. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Who is that Keith freedman lunatic and why are his tweets on here? 

[conVINCEd 21,469]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

Based on the PAC 12’s big partnership with potato chips and incredibly dumb statements today…I wouldn’t count on them. They are probably about to lose four key members. 

Goldfish and cookies as well.  Power moves.

[Js1 85,296]

2 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Yeah, true. But man that's sad. It's  like the aggy to sec to get their foot in the door, but at least they're better than those imps

I mean, that's not *it*

Tech's allure might be a nationally relevant baseball program (lol Stanford though), a TBD basketball program that could still be solid if Adams does well without Beard, and a solid MTN program.  I guess maybe T&F is solid too.   Pac cares a lot about the non-rev/Olympics sports.

Football - sucks
Volleyball - terrible
Softball - super bad
WBB - ain't the 90s anymore and Marsha Sharp ain't walking through the door

Edited July 27, 2021 by Js1

[El Diablo 4,232]

I think somehow the Fucked 8 regroup, add a couple of schools and soldier on for a little while. FOX needs inventory and while it doesn't have a lot of value the conference could provide some of that inventory. I doubt it would keep a seat at any big boy table but with expanded playoffs looming it might do for a decade or so. No telling what the landscape will look like then. Errbody just going to have to tighten their belts and do a reality check. 

[alincoln 2,371]

4 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Someone should tell us why the PAC/B1G/ACC should/should not add the Big 12 leftovers.

Because they add very little revenue but increase costs.  Why would existing PAC schools agree to reduced distributions and increased travel costs and time?  PAC expansion into the Big 12 only made sense when Texas and OU were involved.  

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,180]

Just now, Js1 said:

I mean, that's not *it*

Tech's allure might be a nationally relevant baseball program (lol Stanford though), a TBD basketball program that could still be solid if Adams does well without Beard, and a solid MTN program.  I guess maybe T&F is solid too. 

Football - sucks
Volleyball - terrible
Softball - super bad
WBB - ain't the 90s anymore and Marsha Sharp ain't walking through the door

I do forget they have a solid baseball team, but holy shit. Maybe basketball won't be totally in the toilet without Beard. That's a huge risk for the PAC, tho. 

[Okie State 3,815]

Because they add very little revenue but increase costs.  Why would existing PAC schools agree to reduced distributions and increased travel costs and time?  PAC expansion into the Big 12 only made sense when Texas and OU were involved.  

It was a joke.

[ABSR 5,308]

24 minutes ago, alincoln said:

An expanded Big 12 including some smattering of shit strikes me as the most likely solution until the Great Shakeup occurs.  

Without Texas and Oklahoma, the Big 12, regardless of the number of members, will no longer be a "Power 5" conference.  They can add Cincinnati, Houston, UCF or whomever, but they will still be looking at $10M - $12M per school when they redo their TV deal (or whatever amount is around 25% or less than the Power 4).  Any Big 12 school that can get to a Power 4 conference can, and will, do so as quickly as possible before the music stops and there are no seats available.

[Burt Macklin 19,020]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Tech and OSU should whatever the fuck is necessary, including butt stuff, to get into the PAC-12. The Big 12 is dead. A new big 12 with more shitty teams and/or joining the shit AAC is like 7-9 million a school. That is down from 37 million. Imagine cutting 80% of your athletic budget. 

Tier 1 rights are not the same as Athletics budgets. Tech had a budget of $93 million last year, so it would be a little under 1/3. Still a very painful haircut but nowhere near 80%.  

[Js1 85,296]

Just now, Spider2YBanana said:

I do forget they have a solid baseball team, but holy shit. Maybe basketball won't be totally in the toilet without Beard. That's a huge risk for the PAC, tho. 

The Conference of Champions are going to dilute their brand with expanding via Big 12-4 programs.