Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[clapclapclap 9000]

I think it comes down to whether the B1G has the foresight to raid USC/UCLA/Oregon/Washington (and maybe 1-2 other AAU P12's) and then try to then get the best of a scared ACC to figure out how to kill the ACC GOR and split between the B1G and SEC.  Do that and we end up with 2 superconferences breaking away with 40-48 schools.

But even that game plan might not be enough to keep the B1G's elite from bolting to what I think is the SEC's preferred end game:  A single SEC-based premier league that takes 32 schools and breaks away from everyone else. 

The time for the SEC to do that is in the next 2 years.  Add USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, ASU, plus Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska.  That leaves ND with no choice but to join, and Clemson, FSU, UNC, and UVA then do what it takes to escape the ACC GOR.

New league sets their own rules.  Expanded rosters, pay for players, 14 (or even 16) regular season games, and of course their own playoffs.  Printing money.  

But of course that radical change could result in Congressional intervention.  So best to not state the end game yet.  But it probably only takes 2 of USC, Ohio St, Michigan, Wisconsin, or maybe Penn St applying to the SEC for the dam to break.  If the B1G loses two blue bloods or one plus the primary Pac grab, they know they'll be at best relegated to a permanently lower paid distant 2nd to the SEC.  Those that can get on THE gravy train quickly bail.

Some of the analysts and insiders think 4x16 will be the end game (I'm very skeptical, but what do I know?) but there's an awful lot of, 'Tip of the Iceberg' comments from those actually in the industry.  If 4x16 were the likely result it doesn't seem like it would provoke the concern filtering out on background from so many P4 administrators.  They would all (and most of the B12 left behinds) have a place at the table in the 4x16.

As to the B12 left behinds (and I hate what is happening to them, and take no joy in their angst), if 4x16 doesn't happen, perhaps the best results for them is the 32 premier league forming.  That at least leaves a lot of prominent schools (albeit secondary brands) on the outside, so a good quality next level group of conferences can reorganize and continue with plenty of TV coverage of games.  Back to a more traditional student-athlete experience.  Still better than the G5, though pulling up some of the best G5 schools to maintain critical mass.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by clapclapclap

[Slacks 6922]

7 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

This could be the fatal flaw in the ESPN consolidation move.  

On the positive side, consolidation means fewer teams, so fewer slices of the pie, and better average quality of game televised, at least theoretically, since you'll have, even just with UT/OU in the SEC and no other major changes, more games where a brand name is involved and more of two brand names matching up.

On the negative side, though, it's like, the NFL (or NBA/MLB/NHL) has a stable group of teams, which rarely changes with expansion or maybe a team moving to a different city, and they're evenly distributed across the country.  If you grow up in Texas, you can choose the Cowboys or the Oilers/Texans, or you can just follow whichever team you want, for whatever reason.  With CFB, I grew up a Tech fan and did my undergrad there, so if you cut my school out, I'll still be watching them as best I can, but I'll be watching 0 Super SEC and as little as possible of anything else on ESPN. We'll have two schools in Texas in the Super League, if it comes to that, but I'm not going to be a UT or aggy fan, like some sort Texas State Bobhorn cuck, since Tech is out of the top tier.  I'm just out.  I won't be doing the "Tech is my favorite tier 2 team, and UT is my tier 1 team". Fuck no. I know there are plenty of t-shirt fans that do follow UT/aggy - and there will be more - and there will also be big fans of the IR8 schools that still watch the SEC and whatever comes after it because they just love college football, but I think most of us will just watch our teams in our minor leagues, if that, and otherwise find some other form of entertainment. I also think, when you see more and more entire states or even regions of the country with no representatives in the top tier if it gets down to as small as 48 or less, you'll lose a lot of casual fans there too.

Tech will still be on TV... on the relegated stations (FS6 or some shit) and will get the payout related to that level of viewership.

Think about it... Tickets to U2, Michael Jackson, Madonna, George Strait, Rolling Stones, Beyonce, Beatles, Garth Brooks, etc... are going to cost more than Red Hot Chili Peppers, Earth, Wind & Fire, Jay-Z, Pink, Blake Shelton...

We'll still go... 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

11 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

This could be the fatal flaw in the ESPN consolidation move.  

On the positive side, consolidation means fewer teams, so fewer slices of the pie, and better average quality of game televised, at least theoretically, since you'll have, even just with UT/OU in the SEC and no other major changes, more games where a brand name is involved and more of two brand names matching up.

On the negative side, though, it's like, the NFL (or NBA/MLB/NHL) has a stable group of teams, which rarely changes with expansion or maybe a team moving to a different city, and they're evenly distributed across the country.  If you grow up in Texas, you can choose the Cowboys or the Oilers/Texans, or you can just follow whichever team you want, for whatever reason.  With CFB, I grew up a Tech fan and did my undergrad there, so if you cut my school out, I'll still be watching them as best I can, but I'll be watching 0 Super SEC and as little as possible of anything else on ESPN. We'll have two schools in Texas in the Super League, if it comes to that, but I'm not going to be a UT or aggy fan, like some sort Texas State Bobhorn cuck, since Tech is out of the top tier.  I'm just out.  I won't be doing the "Tech is my favorite tier 2 team, and UT is my tier 1 team". Fuck no. I know there are plenty of t-shirt fans that do follow UT/aggy - and there will be more - and there will also be big fans of the IR8 schools that still watch the SEC and whatever comes after it because they just love college football, but I think most of us will just watch our teams in our minor leagues, if that, and otherwise find some other form of entertainment. I also think, when you see more and more entire states or even regions of the country with no representatives in the top tier if it gets down to as small as 48 or less, you'll lose a lot of casual fans there too.

Well said.

I think what ESPN and the SEC and others don't really realize are the numbers behind the numbers.  I think fans of "Tier 2" schools watch their conference mates play in other games because there is a related, vested interest in how those games turnout, or in how one conference is matching up with another.

If we are relegated to a 32 team super conference/premier league and then all of the rest, there are going to be a lot of viewers who used to watch those tier 1 matchups who no longer are interested because there is no longer any connection to their team and/or region.  I don't think that manifests right away, but over a few short years it could be.  And then ESPN is going to wonder why these matchups aren't pulling in the viewership like they used to.  CFB doesn't work like the NFL, it just doesn't.  So making an NFL junior will not ultimately work.

One this is for certain:  It's going to be interesting to watch it play out.

[utee94 15901]

9 minutes ago, Snacks said:

CBS has this figured out.  CBS seems to put up the biggest games every season...  ESPN should be trying to put together a package that guarantees the biggest games - even if that means stacking the conferences.

 

 

 

But part of the CBS/SEC secret sauce has been the 4 OOC games, including plenty of cupcakes to pad the win column, plus using the two separate divisions to "hide" the best teams in each division from one another until the SEC CCG.  Right now it looks like the league is going to switch to 9 conference games which reduces the win padding, and if they do indeed go through with pods, they won't be able to perform the "division magic trick" either.

The SEC is about to start looking a little weaker by record with respect to the other conferences.  In some ways, this is actually a win for the B1G, which is already playing 9 conference games.

Edited July 30, 2021 by utee94

[Dirk X West 772]

Just now, Snacks said:

Tech will still be on TV... on the relegated stations (FS6 or some shit) and will get the payout related to that level of viewership.

Think about it... Tickets to U2, Michael Jackson, Madonna, George Strait, Rolling Stones, Beyonce, Beatles, Garth Brooks, etc... are going to cost more than Red Hot Chili Peppers, Earth, Wind & Fire, Jay-Z, Pink, Blake Shelton...

We'll still go... 

They will, but that won't be ESPN - and, more importantly, that's not what ESPN is banking on. They don't think they'll be getting the same ratings that all the SEC games got last year + the ratings UT and OU got last year.  They think they'll be getting far more than that, as they believe most casual fans will want to watch these games too.  And that's my point. The gigantic pool of casual fans has lots of different motivations for why they would watch an SEC game. I think ESPN is overestimating how many casual viewers, including fans of other leagues, fans of G5 schools, etc., want something like UT/OU in the SEC, much less something more consolidated than that.   

[SquishMitten 10466]

With OU at least verbally committing to keep Bedlam in all sports, that certainly boosts OSU in terms of finding a new home. Trying to think if we could do the same with somebody else, but I don’t really see the value in that for us. None of the IR8 are any sort of rivalry game that I’m sad to see go. I guess Kansas St. would’ve been at the top for me just because I want more retribution for the Snyder years, but since he’s gone that’s mostly lost it’s appeal. Kansas would be funny for football, but I’ll definitely miss the basketball games. I guess Tech would have the best claim for the spot since they’re the next biggest in state, but that doesn’t bring any value to us in any sport. Although it would likely be beneficial for expediting the collapse of the Big 12, paying a higher buyout is probably the better long term decision.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Well said.

I think what ESPN and the SEC and others don't really realize are the numbers behind the numbers.  I think fans of "Tier 2" schools watch their conference mates play in other games because there is a related, vested interest in how those games turnout, or in how one conference is matching up with another.

If we are relegated to a 32 team super conference/premier league and then all of the rest, there are going to be a lot of viewers who used to watch those tier 1 matchups who no longer are interested because there is no longer any connection to their team and/or region.  I don't think that manifests right away, but over a few short years it could be.  And then ESPN is going to wonder why these matchups aren't pulling in the viewership like they used to.  CFB doesn't work like the NFL, it just doesn't.  So making an NFL junior will not ultimately work.

One this is for certain:  It's going to be interesting to watch it play out.

Agree with this 100%.

[Huckleberry 33669]

3 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

With OU at least verbally committing to keep Bedlam in all sports, that certainly boosts OSU in terms of finding a new home. Trying to think if we could do the same with somebody else, but I don’t really see the value in that for us. None of the IR8 are any sort of rivalry game that I’m sad to see go. I guess Kansas St. would’ve been at the top for me just because I want more retribution for the Snyder years, but since he’s gone that’s mostly lost it’s appeal. Kansas would be funny for football, but I’ll definitely miss the basketball games. I guess Tech would have the best claim for the spot since they’re the next biggest in state, but that doesn’t bring any value to us in any sport. Although it would likely be beneficial for expediting the collapse of the Big 12, paying a higher buyout is probably the better long term decision.

We should commit to it for Tech because they're a state school and the state needs them to be a good university. You're correct that athletically it doesn't make much sense but in the bigger picture I would like us to do that. Not going to cry if we don't, but it would be a good thing to do, imo.

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

With OU at least verbally committing to keep Bedlam in all sports, that certainly boosts OSU in terms of finding a new home. Trying to think if we could do the same with somebody else, but I don’t really see the value in that for us. None of the IR8 are any sort of rivalry game that I’m sad to see go. I guess Kansas St. would’ve been at the top for me just because I want more retribution for the Snyder years, but since he’s gone that’s mostly lost it’s appeal. Kansas would be funny for football, but I’ll definitely miss the basketball games. I guess Tech would have the best claim for the spot since they’re the next biggest in state, but that doesn’t bring any value to us in any sport. Although it would likely be beneficial for expediting the collapse of the Big 12, paying a higher buyout is probably the better long term decision.

Tech is probably the only current big 12 school that UT will consider playing fairly regularly in the future. This year will likely be our last games in Waco, Fort Worth, Iowa and West Virginia for quite awhile. So buckle up. 

[mdmost 43330]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

We should commit to it for Tech because they're a state school and the state needs them to be a good university. You're correct that athletically it doesn't make much sense but in the bigger picture I would like us to do that. Not going to cry if we don't, but it would be a good thing to do, imo.

The relationship is so different though. Those school are so close together geographically. I'd imagine trips to Lubbock aren't what the administration wants to have on the table since that limits who you can schedule, assuming the SEC goes to 9 conference games. We're going to want to maximize our home schedule and home and home rotation with Tech every year is going to put a dent in that. Plus, our administration is probably tired of getting shit from Lubbock and their legislators. 

[GTX Horn 1725]

13 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Well said.

I think what ESPN and the SEC and others don't really realize are the numbers behind the numbers.  I think fans of "Tier 2" schools watch their conference mates play in other games because there is a related, vested interest in how those games turnout, or in how one conference is matching up with another.

If we are relegated to a 32 team super conference/premier league and then all of the rest, there are going to be a lot of viewers who used to watch those tier 1 matchups who no longer are interested because there is no longer any connection to their team and/or region.  I don't think that manifests right away, but over a few short years it could be.  And then ESPN is going to wonder why these matchups aren't pulling in the viewership like they used to.  CFB doesn't work like the NFL, it just doesn't.  So making an NFL junior will not ultimately work.

One this is for certain:  It's going to be interesting to watch it play out.

I have a suspicion these are the 2 most likely scenarios. I could see the B1G taking the AAU PAC schools and then the SEC picking up the best of the ACC and Notre Dame, ultimately forming 2 Mega Conferences.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

24 minutes ago, Dirk X West said:

They will, but that won't be ESPN - and, more importantly, that's not what ESPN is banking on. They don't think they'll be getting the same ratings that all the SEC games got last year + the ratings UT and OU got last year.  They think they'll be getting far more than that, as they believe most casual fans will want to watch these games too.  And that's my point. The gigantic pool of casual fans has lots of different motivations for why they would watch an SEC game. I think ESPN is overestimating how many casual viewers, including fans of other leagues, fans of G5 schools, etc., want something like UT/OU in the SEC, much less something more consolidated than that.   

Will I have interest in watching OU-Vanderbilt or Texas-Tennessee? Maybe at first out of curiosity, but that will wane. For example, I remember watching several Texas A&M games in 2012 or so, because I was curious how they would do in the SEC. But I can't recall the last A&M game I watched other than our bowl game against them a few years ago. You have to think that the fans of the rest of the conference teams (whose viewership did add incremental value to OU/Texas broadcasts) might feel the same way.

Of course, the response to that is that, well, the SEC casual fan will be interested. OK. But there are still finite broadcast slots for conference games, and those fans are already watching pretty much all SEC games right? So it's just a question of volume of games.

Not that any of this likely makes any kind of difference to the bottom line, and I know ESPN/others don't give two fucks about this, but the point I'm rambling about is I believe what they are doing with this mass consolidation is eroding OVERALL interest in college football. OF COURSE everyone in SEC land is going to be super interested and watching, but weren't they already?

What's going to happen if, say, the best programs from the PAC merges with the B1G (which every national sportswriter seems to be pushing)? So basically you get to a point where only about 35 or so teams matter because they are in the SEC, the B1G or they are Clemson, lol.

And then you have all of these next-tier programs like OSU, Tech, K-State, TCU, the Arizona schools, Colorado, Utah, etc., "relegated" no matter how much on-field success they have had... I know that if OSU gets cut out and is on the outside looking in, it will SERIOUSLY impact my overall interest in CFB.  And it would likely be the same for fans/alumni of dozens of other teams that get cut out simply because they didn't happen to be a "legacy" school in one of 2 or 3 conferences left standing or aren't lucky enough to be situated in a desirable metro area so they get to be included no matter how shitty their on-field product is. 

Again, I understand that it doesn't make a shit to ESPN or the powers that be as they print their money. It's just bad for overall interest in CFB as a whole, IMO.

Edited July 30, 2021 by oSuJeff97

[Slacks 6922]

and when sports betting expands nationally... and you can wager on the ESPN app or wherever... and put money in FF pools...

 

Dame Dollar will be droppin dimes on his teddy bear.

 

Think long and think big. The dots connect easily.

[DFW Horn 6521]

26 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

I guess Tech would have the best claim for the spot since they’re the next biggest in state, but that doesn’t bring any value to us in any sport. Although it would likely be beneficial for expediting the collapse of the Big 12, paying a higher buyout is probably the better long term decision.

UT and the XII would've scheduled Tech for Thanksgiving to replace aggy if they were interested in raising their profile. That's what I thought would happen, but didn't.

[clapclapclap 9000]

A premier league will hurt the new 'Middle Class' league of P5 leftovers + the best of G5 initially, but how much fan interest would be revived for schools that previously had almost no shot at the playoffs now regularly make it?  12 or 16 spots for about 50 schools in the NCAA Middle Class conferences.  8 to 16 spots for the 40 or so in the former G5's.  Might actually increase G5 attendance and viewership.  Creating 3 sets of playoffs instead of 1 should increase money to all FBS (sic) schools, even if the premier league grabs the lion's share.  

Those 3 playoffs replace the bowls, so ESPN still wants content.

[Slacks 6922]

2 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I believe what they are doing with this mass consolidation is eroding OVERALL interest in college football.

I agree to an extent.  I also think maybe they are getting out ahead of the overall erosion of interest in sports.  Why is Netflix getting into video gaming? Because it's going to be huge(r). 

ESPN has to compete with video games and YouTube and TikTok and who knows what else is coming.

Those Thursday night football games that people don't watch? There are going to be better games and people will watch.  There will also still be non-marquee games that get watched enough...  But why pay TCU $38M a year if you can pay them $7M and still get their games?  

They don't think it be that way, but it do. This is America. In God We Tru$t. C.R.E.A.M. get the money...

 

 

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Lol.  How’s it play well w the OU crowd?  Fuck the SEC

 

joining to fuck their shit up.  Not blow them.  

Well, doctor, you’ll find that mindless chanting of stupid shit and rabid pride in all things athletics over academics is very much an OU mindset. They’ll fall right in line.  

 

I know it irks many, but it’s going to happen, and you can bet your ass the cameras will be poised to catch it. 

[Slacks 6922]

2 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

A premier league will hurt the new 'Middle Class' league of P5 leftovers + the best of G5 initially, but how much fan interest would be revived for schools that previously had almost no shot at the playoffs now regularly make it?  12 or 16 spots for about 50 schools in the NCAA Middle Class conferences.  8 to 16 spots for the 40 or so in the former G5's.  Might actually increase G5 attendance and viewership.  Creating 3 sets of playoffs instead of 1 should increase money to all FBS (sic) schools, even if the premier league grabs the lion's share.  

Those 3 playoffs replace the bowls, so ESPN still wants content.

here we go!

Guess what, I don't know dick about North Dakota State or Sam Houston State football and their season.... except that I watched them play in the playoffs and I enjoyed it.... (ok, it was SDSU... point made.)

No, casual fans didn't watch it, but football fans did...  I know people with no college affiliation at all that watched it - because they are football affiliated.

Hell, I watched Grambling, Jackson State, and some other random-ass games when I had time and/or wasn't otherwise engaged in some activity...

Read that last part... that is the driver of what is about to take place.

[Slacks 6922]

3 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Well, doctor, you’ll find that mindless chanting of stupid shit and rabid pride in all things athletics over academics is very much an OU mindset. They’ll fall right in line.  

 

I know it irks many, but it’s going to happen, and you can bet your ass the cameras will be poised to catch it. 

Not gonna lie...  I would allow this one time (but would not participate)... especially if we win the game.

[Js1 85898]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

The relationship is so different though. Those school are so close together geographically. I'd imagine trips to Lubbock aren't what the administration wants to have on the table since that limits who you can schedule, assuming the SEC goes to 9 conference games. We're going to want to maximize our home schedule and home and home rotation with Tech every year is going to put a dent in that. Plus, our administration is probably tired of getting shit from Lubbock and their legislators. 

This. It’s different. OU and OSU are THE in-state rivals. Lots of in-state bragging rights.  There’s no other in state option for OU 

Texas and Tech aint that. It was and is the aggy game and that’s coming back. 

[bullet 1610]

16 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I have changed my opinion on this in the last few days.  I was previously in favor of doing it once, the first time we beat aTm in our new conference, but the discussion that has followed has made me realize that it would probably become a thing with the utes.

Well everyone used it on the pigs the year they announced they were leaving for the SEC.  We used it on Jawga in the Sugar Bowl in the 4th quarter.  Its acceptable when you are beating an SEC team.

[Huckleberry 33669]

14 minutes ago, Js1 said:

This. It’s different. OU and OSU are THE in-state rivals. Lots of in-state bragging rights.  There’s no other in state option for OU 

Texas and Tech aint that. It was and is the aggy game and that’s coming back. 

Well the other difference is that Oklahoma is a little piss-ant state that sucks, Texas needs more than 2 major universities. We have over 7 times as many people living here as Oklahoma does.

[bullet 1610]

5 hours ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

The B1G really isn't comparable.

In revenue they are.  Not in football.  They are Ohio St., 3 has beens and 10 drawves.

[bullet 1610]

4 hours ago, utee94 said:

The cable subscriber model is dying, and in-footprint carriers have been dropping the BTN for years.  Most B1G fans I know regretted it from Day 1, but were willing to justify it because of the money.  Now that the money is fading, they regret it even more.

Not really.  There are a ton of B$G alumni in NY and DC.  They don't need MD and Rutgers to be competitive.  They just need to play there and milk their acela corridor alums.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

5 minutes ago, bullet said:

Well everyone used it on the pigs the year they announced they were leaving for the SEC.  We used it on Jawga in the Sugar Bowl in the 4th quarter.  Its acceptable when you are beating an SEC team.

Yes. If we are coming from a place of hate and mocking, then I’m cool with it. 
 

I could see if we get beat bad by the remaining 8, the SEC chant will be used vigorously 

[bullet 1610]

3 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Something I've been wondering - if four 16-team "mega conferences" makes sense, why doesn't one GIANT "conference" of the top tier of college football make sense? You have (basically) the top 50-60 teams (or whatever number works best) that comprise the top level of college football. You align it in regional divisions that make actually sense and preserve historic rivalries. 

You have a playoff just like the NFL with division winners, wild cards, etc.  You print fucking money.

Of course it will never happen because of the greed, egos, etc., of the various leagues and university presidents/administrators, etc., but it sure would be fun.

Former ESPN president John Skipper was speculating with 4X16 you could have a basketball tournament and invite everyone.

[utee94 15901]

5 minutes ago, bullet said:

Not really.  There are a ton of B$G alumni in NY and DC.  They don't need MD and Rutgers to be competitive.  They just need to play there and milk their acela corridor alums.

Those alums aren't forcing their cable providers to carry the BTN, which was the (only) point of adding those two specific teams.  BTN carriage is dropping in-footprint, and beyond that the large numbers of cord-cutters, will eventually render the conference network cable subscriber model, obsolete.

 

[bullet 1610]

2 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I think "basketball doesn't matter" for the most part. However, I think for a handful of programs, Kansas included, you would consider basketball. Men's b-ball doesn't make the money that football makes, obviously; but it is the #2 payday behind football, and KU has one of top 3-5 programs in the country. 

I think that would add value to any conference...you just have to accept that their football (currently) brings nothing and hope they add some incremental value at some point.

Again, the former ESPN president made the comment that Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky and North Carolina had value, even though football drove most of the value.

[bullet 1610]

2 hours ago, Steelers Roll Left said:

To do the 32 to 64 team model right, conferences need to be prepared to relegate their weakest members as well as expand.  Someone should make a list of relevant schools outside the "current" Power 5 vs a list of schools that are currently in Power 5 conferences that don't bring much to the table simply because 'historically they've been part of those conferences".  Vanderbilt in the SEC, Kansas State in the Big 12, Indiana in the Big Ten (until very recently), and the ACC has a lot of these schools.   

Well if you eliminate the schools that haven't been top 4 in college football, the final 4 in basketball or the semifinals in the College World Series since 1940, well you drop Northwestern and aggy.

[bullet 1610]

2 hours ago, Dirk X West said:

This could be the fatal flaw in the ESPN consolidation move.  

On the positive side, consolidation means fewer teams, so fewer slices of the pie, and better average quality of game televised, at least theoretically, since you'll have, even just with UT/OU in the SEC and no other major changes, more games where a brand name is involved and more of two brand names matching up.

On the negative side, though, it's like, the NFL (or NBA/MLB/NHL) has a stable group of teams, which rarely changes with expansion or maybe a team moving to a different city, and they're evenly distributed across the country.  If you grow up in Texas, you can choose the Cowboys or the Oilers/Texans, or you can just follow whichever team you want, for whatever reason.  With CFB, I grew up a Tech fan and did my undergrad there, so if you cut my school out, I'll still be watching them as best I can, but I'll be watching 0 Super SEC and as little as possible of anything else on ESPN. We'll have two schools in Texas in the Super League, if it comes to that, but I'm not going to be a UT or aggy fan, like some sort Texas State Bobhorn cuck, since Tech is out of the top tier.  I'm just out.  I won't be doing the "Tech is my favorite tier 2 team, and UT is my tier 1 team". Fuck no. I know there are plenty of t-shirt fans that do follow UT/aggy - and there will be more - and there will also be big fans of the IR8 schools that still watch the SEC and whatever comes after it because they just love college football, but I think most of us will just watch our teams in our minor leagues, if that, and otherwise find some other form of entertainment. I also think, when you see more and more entire states or even regions of the country with no representatives in the top tier if it gets down to as small as 48 or less, you'll lose a lot of casual fans there too.

Think you are right.  32 to 48 is too small.

[TKthunder2 5040]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

We should commit to it for Tech because they're a state school and the state needs them to be a good university. You're correct that athletically it doesn't make much sense but in the bigger picture I would like us to do that. Not going to cry if we don't, but it would be a good thing to do, imo.

 

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Well the other difference is that Oklahoma is a little piss-ant state that sucks, Texas needs more than 2 major universities. We have over 7 times as many people living here as Oklahoma does.

Every year in football would be tough, maybe in basketball and baseball sure.

Maybe if you get aggy on board with pressure from the lege and we rotate the burden in football.

2023 - Tech @ Texas

2024 - Texas @ Tech

2025 - Tech @ aggy

2026 - aggy @ Tech

and repeat…

[bullet 1610]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

We should commit to it for Tech because they're a state school and the state needs them to be a good university. You're correct that athletically it doesn't make much sense but in the bigger picture I would like us to do that. Not going to cry if we don't, but it would be a good thing to do, imo.

I don't know that we should tie ourselves down to every year, especially if there is a 9 game SEC schedule.  But we should play them regularly like we do Rice.

[Nivek 17076]

It must be a pretty shitty feeling going from confident head of a P5 conference trying to navigate an expanded football playoff to discovering that all the power players realize you have no vision and have taken matters into their own hands. 

That is the part not talked about here. Normally people recognize their talent, try to keep them happy and bring in support for the talent.

Not run them off, blame them, try to be vindictive as possible publicly all but guaranteeing you have no shot at replacing them.

[bullet 1610]

14 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Those alums aren't forcing their cable providers to carry the BTN, which was the (only) point of adding those two specific teams.  BTN carriage is dropping in-footprint, and beyond that the large numbers of cord-cutters, will eventually render the conference network cable subscriber model, obsolete.

 

By milking, I mean they are connecting with them and getting donations.  Not so much cable carriage.

[Js1 85898]

29 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Well the other difference is that Oklahoma is a little piss-ant state that sucks, Texas needs more than 2 major universities. We have over 7 times as many people living here as Oklahoma does.

I still don't understand the logic that somehow not being a shitty football program in a shitty conference is going to somehow make the university disappear (same goes for OSU).

Texas Tech is still going to be able to pull reasonable talent as a G5 program to be a big fish in a small pond.  It's still a state school with a 36k student enrollment that serves basically all of West Texas.

Tech will survive.   We don't have to play them.  They aren't our rival. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Js1

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

 

Every year in football would be tough, maybe in basketball and baseball sure.

Maybe if you get aggy on board with pressure from the lege and we rotate the burden in football.

2023 - Tech @ Texas

2024 - Texas @ Tech

2025 - Tech @ aggy

2026 - aggy @ Tech

and repeat…

Not directed at you, but fuck scheduling anything with aggy and Tech ever. Fuck those pendejos. Everyone seems to forget what lying sacks of shit they are and what a fucking beating it is dealing with them on any level. Fuck Texas A&M. 

[Vertigo 20398]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Tech is probably the only current big 12 school that UT will consider playing fairly regularly in the future. This year will likely be our last games in Waco, Fort Worth, Iowa and West Virginia for quite awhile. So buckle up. 

I can see Baylor doing some bitch move like trying to legislate we play them every year. 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

35 minutes ago, bullet said:

Former ESPN president John Skipper was speculating with 4X16 you could have a basketball tournament and invite everyone.

I’m not worried so much about 4x16.  That would be 64 schools and encompass basically all of the major college football fan bases.

What I’m worried about is something like a 2.5 x 16 or some such… where you get the B1G taking (for argument’s sake) USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon from the PAC. Then you have a situation where really only the B1G, SEC and the ACC (err, Clemson) matter. In that situation you would have all of these leftover programs from PAC and Big 12 that have been in a “power whatever” league for decades that are “relegated” all of a sudden to a lower division of CFB.

I tend to think that is bad for CFB as a whole.

[Cardinal12 34]

3 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

You're missing my point.

CFB had a unique brand.  This will destroy that.  It's now NFL 2.0.  It's like Coke coming out with "New Coke" to compete with Pepsi by basically eschewing it's recipe for Pepsi 2.0.  The fans didn't like it.

Full disclosure: I'm an old fart in a relatively young body.  I think the jumbotrons were the beginning of CFB giving up it's unique gameday experience.  This is just the final step in the complete conversion to a minor league of the NFL.  

CFB nfl-ized years ago. I get the fears, but we crossed that rubicon long ago. 

[tonedeaf 56]

21 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

I can see Baylor doing some bitch move like trying to legislate we play them every year. 

Fuck baylor.

[Pancho 45560]

Would love to hear what our T8 friends are hearing about their universities.  I think all of the Iowa State fans got really mad and stopped posting here.  Seems like Okie state fans are still around, which I think most UT folks would agree we’ve always liked Okie State.  Tech folks? Kansas?

Don’t give 2 shits about Baylor or TCU so yall can fuck off. 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Would love to hear what our T8 friends are hearing about their universities.  I think all of the Iowa State fans got really mad and stopped posting here.  Seems like Okie state fans are still around, which I think most UT folks would agree we’ve always liked Okie State.  Tech folks? Kansas?

Don’t give 2 shits about Baylor or TCU so yall can fuck off. 

Tech checking in.

Crickets from Lubbock.  The administration either (1) has absolutely nothing going on; or (2) for legal reasons has to keep quiet.

My bet is on #1.

[Huckleberry 33669]

49 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I still don't understand the logic that somehow not being a shitty football program in a shitty conference is going to somehow make the university disappear (same goes for OSU).

Texas Tech is still going to be able to pull reasonable talent as a G5 program to be a big fish in a small pond.  It's still a state school with a 36k student enrollment that serves basically all of West Texas.

Tech will survive.   We don't have to play them.  They aren't our rival. 

It's not about their university disappearing. It's about the fact that UT actually cares about the State of Texas and tries to do things to help it. Things like a medical branch in Houston.

Meanwhile small thinking dipshits like A&M and UH block us and everyone else at every turn because they only care about their piddly institutions. Which is exactly why they're piddly institutions.

Texas Tech needs visibility. The unfortunate reality is that the #3 public university in Texas is out in Lubbock.

[Pancho 45560]

Based on their 247 site, they have 0 interest in playing UT ever again.  I can see Tech being petty and saying “no thanks” if we proposed this offer. 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

39 minutes ago, Cardinal12 said:

CFB nfl-ized years ago. I get the fears, but we crossed that rubicon long ago. 

Somewhat.  But the transfer portal, NIL,  and the "super league" are going to finish off the job.

[Uncle Nate 2097]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Based on their 247 site, they have 0 interest in playing UT ever again.  I can see Tech being petty and saying “no thanks” if we proposed this offer. 

That site is a beating.  I quit reading it years ago.  So did a lot of others, apparently.

[billfromlaketravis 11639]

28 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

It's not about their university disappearing. It's about the fact that UT actually cares about the State of Texas and tries to do things to help it. Things like a medical branch in Houston.

Meanwhile small thinking dipshits like A&M and UH block us and everyone else at every turn because they only care about their piddly institutions. Which is exactly why they're piddly institutions.

Texas Tech needs visibility. The unfortunate reality is that the #3 public university in Texas is out in Lubbock.

Good post, but I think Tech will be fine. As long as it's a fun school with some good degree/career paths they'll continue to grow. 

[Nicole44 22198]

I’m sure this has already been mentioned but in conversations with my Tech relatives they always say, “We should have added those teams in 2016 and expanded and this shit wouldn’t be happening now.” Looking back on the probable/inevitable demise of the Big 12, there was a time when I wanted to keep adding teams and expanding. Can’t have ten teams and call ourselves the Big 12. I realize that would have also meant more than likely fewer millions to the IR8. Had we more mouths to feed and unless we somehow added ND the teams we would have added would have brought more competition and more eyes BUT not the level of a contract the B1G and SEC commanded. Just fewer millions spread out. The IR8 got more by keeping it with just ten, jmo. But none of this matters because we are the Voldemort of the football universe. 
 

I have an ISU friend and was able to text a bit today and (their leadership along with Kansas has been the most quiet of the 8 ) he said that there were some rumblings heating up today about B1G again but he doesn’t want to get his hopes up. I get it. 
 

ISU has the most reason to be salty. They improved their football program in the last 4-5 years. AAU accreditation like us in 2017 and Kansas. Improved facilities and coaching across the sports etc…while I would sure like to win the last B12 trophy in football, if we cannot, I hope ISU gets it.
 

Sorry to my tech relatives. I also wouldn’t sleep on KSU or TCU this year conference wise. Last year was a fluke Covid year and injury year for KSU whereas the previous year they were 8-5. Plus, every school will be out for our heads. Gonna be one chippy fucking season. 
 

JMO as always. 

[Samson's Wig 3202]

2 hours ago, Cardinal12 said:

CFB nfl-ized years ago. I get the fears, but we crossed that rubicon long ago. 

In many ways, yes.  Any remote attempt at parity has been the exception.  And the lack of parity is a big part of why ratings have been sinking for the last decade or so.  General fans will not continue to tune in to watch the same handful of schools play the only meaningful games.  

While I'm all for this move, as we should get our money while we can, I do think it  hastens the inevitable relegation of college football to a low-tier niche entertainment product.  ESPN built the SEC into the monster it is with their bullshit.  The marketing worked.  Now it's the only show in town and it makes sense to get on board.  But their ploy has led to lower and lower ratings.  The ship is already sinking and no one wants to acknowledge it.

ESPN answers to a publicly traded company (well two I guess), and quick dollars are all they give a shit about.  As a college football fan I care more about the longevity of the sport, but the writing is on the wall.  We'll still have college football a few decades from now, but it will be lucky to draw advertising dollars at the same rate as minor league baseball does now.  We've seen the peak and it was around ten years ago or so.  Hell, by that time college football may be on par with lacrosse or some other afterthought college sport.  The people who care will all be dead.

Plenty has already been said here and elsewhere about the other contributing factors (kids not playing football, generational indifference among millennials, Gen Z), but this post is already longer than anyone will read so I'll add a bit more.  Football in general will fade with Gen X, who were children in its heyday and were adults in its big money making years.  Boomers and Gen X drive the sport.  Boomers are already becoming irrelevant from an advertising standpoint, and and advertisers know that once Gen X leaves the sweet spot in terms of age for marketing, they will move their dollars elsewhere.  You've seen the programming that AARP, Depends, and dick pill ads appear on.  That will be college football in twenty years.  ESPN is doing what it can to squeeze what the can out of the sport in its waning years, as they should.  As fans, it will be sad to see it die off.  We'll see some desperate last ditch effort to appeal to younger fans, but they already fucked that up with two generations.  It's too late.

[KaiserSoze 1000]

Would love to hear what our T8 friends are hearing about their universities.  I think all of the Iowa State fans got really mad and stopped posting here.  Seems like Okie state fans are still around, which I think most UT folks would agree we’ve always liked Okie State.  Tech folks? Kansas?
Don’t give 2 shits about Baylor or TCU so yall can fuck off. 

Tech alum checking in here. For background, I don't read any message boards beyond this one, and even here I've rarely ever viewed the football forum until this recent shake-up (I'm here for the titties and beer).

I graduated during the SWC era and don't think I even realized it had become Big XII until the early 2000s- I didn't start following Tech again sports-wise until Mike Leach took over.

I'll kinda miss the regional conference we had, but otherwise will enjoy trips back to campus to watch games and bar hop my old spots as usual. It'll be weird/different at first, but will still be fun.