Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[closetojumping 62891]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

My in-laws are Mizzou alumni. We went to that game together as well. And the bowl game. Mizzou fans are fine. The few I know understand reality just fine. One of them quotes Dodds worst season at Texas > best season at Mizzou line. And he agrees with our late AD.

Did you just murder Deloss Dodds and confess it on Surly?

[camel at sea 589]

2 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

While obviously SEC and B1G schools mostly have much bigger fanbases than B12 leftovers and replacements, most of those graphs and numbers are based on some unscientific, and frankly laughable, online and other measuring attempts by the NY Times.

They've been discussed in various threads over the years, and failed vetting each time.  The view from 10,000 feet is correct, the numbers are unverifiable and subject to (up to heavy) manipulation.

Yeah.  You can throw that whole thing in the trash once you see that it says Oregon has a larger fanbase than Alabama.  

[camel at sea 589]

18 hours ago, camel at sea said:

Yeah.  You can throw that whole thing in the trash once you see that it says Oregon has a larger fanbase than Alabama.  

Better one:  Syracuse with a Top 15 fanbase (bigger than Auburn, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Nebraska...)

If your data is producing results like that, then you need to start over.  Nobody should take any part of it seriously.  Here he is defending the idea that Cuse has more fans than Oklahoma:
 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

8 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

Better one:  Syracuse with a Top 15 fanbase (bigger than Auburn, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Nebraska...)

If your data is producing results like that, then you need to start over.  Nobody should take any part of it seriously.  Here he is defending the idea that Cuse has more fans than Oklahoma:
 

 

It goes back to my point about UConn and Rutgers.  If you forced every living American to designate a favorite college football team, more people would pick Syracuse than OU.  But 90% of those people picking Syracuse watch like 1 game every 5 years.  90% of those picking OU probably watch (at a minimum) multiple games a season.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Al_4_ISU

[camel at sea 589]

7 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It goes back to my point about UConn and Rutgers.  If you forced every living American to designate a favorite college football team, more people would pick Syracuse than OU.  But 90% of those people picking Syracuse watch like 1 game every 5 years.  90% of those picking OU probably watch (at a minimum) multiple games a season.

My guess is that a hefty number of New Yorkers, forced to choose, are going to pick a lot of squads (Notre Dame, Michigan, Penn State, Army/Navy, etc.) before they get down to Syracuse but I get your point.  

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

5 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

My guess is that a hefty number of New Yorkers, forced to choose, are going to pick a lot of squads (Notre Dame, Michigan, Penn State, Army/Navy, etc.) before they get down to Syracuse but I get your point.  

Maybe.  I don't know much about New York college football culture other than that there isn't much of one.

[DFW Horn 6242]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Maybe.  I don't know much about New York college football culture other than that there isn't much of one.

There isn't much of a college football culture, period, in the northeast USA.

[Tex Long 4456]

Seems like a better estimate of size of fanbase would be t-shirt sales.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

9 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

There isn't much of a college football culture, period, in the northeast USA.

My uncle lived in New Jersey for years and always said as much.  When he first moved out there he was really surprised by how absolutely no one gave a fuck about Rutgers compared to the fervor people in the Midwest had for college football.

[cochamps 1879]

22 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Did you just murder Deloss Dodds and confess it on Surly?

i will buy him a beer.

[Hurtlocker 2213]

ha, yeah, the concept is right, but some of those numbers are laughable.   Viewership does not agree with those under the top ten with much accuracy

[Nivek 16992]

Did you just murder Deloss Dodds and confess it on Surly?

No, the inlaws. Shhhhhhh

[Hurtlocker 2213]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:51 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

My uncle lived in New Jersey for years and always said as much.  When he first moved out there he was really surprised by how absolutely no one gave a fuck about Rutgers compared to the fervor people in the Midwest had for college football.

I can attest no one gives a fuck about Rutgers outside New Brunswick.   Most people don't even know where it is, let alone that it's a state school.  The care/no care mason dixon line for football is Pennsylvania.  That's where it starts becoming a thing and even that is hit or miss until you hit the southeast.  I went to ND@UVA last year, picked up tickets on the 50 for next to nothing, and there were maybe 40k people there.   That wouldn't happen in the Midwest or South, its just a different vibe, much like the West Coast.

[LTtxfan 49378]

Crossposting since B12 related...  

 

[Texasrocks 2149]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:10 PM, clapclapclap said:

While obviously SEC and B1G schools mostly have much bigger fanbases than B12 leftovers and replacements, most of those graphs and numbers are based on some unscientific, and frankly laughable, online and other measuring attempts by the NY Times.

They've been discussed in various threads over the years, and failed vetting each time.  The view from 10,000 feet is correct, the numbers are unverifiable and subject to (up to heavy) manipulation.

Any analysis that shows Nebraska's departure from the Big 12 had the third largest impact (out of the four teams) can't be all bad.

[LTtxfan 49378]

Big 12 eyeing Brett Yormark, executive at Jay-Z's Roc Nation, as next commissioner 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-eyeing-brett-yormark-executive-at-jay-zs-roc-nation-as-next-commissioner/ 

 

Big 12 targeting Brett Yormark to replace Bob Bowlsby as commissioner, sources say

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/34159153/big-12-targeting-brett-yormark-replace-bob-bowlsby-commissioner-sources-say

Edited June 28, 2022 by LTtxfan

[Pig Bellmont 8741]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:10 PM, camel at sea said:

Better one:  Syracuse with a Top 15 fanbase (bigger than Auburn, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Nebraska...)

If your data is producing results like that, then you need to start over.  Nobody should take any part of it seriously.  Here he is defending the idea that Cuse has more fans than Oklahoma:
 

 

Yeah the whole argument is stupid. Most people in NY and the north east generally only care about the NFL. Hardly anyone follows college football and none of them watch Syracuse for anything but basketball. Even kids that went to Syracuse. 

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Big 12 eyeing Brett Yormark, executive at Jay-Z's Roc Nation, as next commissioner 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-eyeing-brett-yormark-executive-at-jay-zs-roc-nation-as-next-commissioner/ 

 

Big 12 targeting Brett Yormark to replace Bob Bowlsby as commissioner, sources say

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/34159153/big-12-targeting-brett-yormark-replace-bob-bowlsby-commissioner-sources-say

That's the exact sort of hire the Big 12 needed.  Someone outside the box.

The Big 12's niche will be branding itself as the "fun" league.  Without the population and big fanbases of the B1G/SEC, it will have to be a more entertaining product than the Pac 12 and ACC, and I think it has a very good chance of doing that.

[LTbear 4171]

High risk/ potentially high reward type hire. 

[DFW Horn 6242]

15 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's the exact sort of hire the Big 12 needed.  Someone outside the box.

The Big 12's niche will be branding itself as the "fun" league.  Without the population and big fanbases of the B1G/SEC, it will have to be a more entertaining product than the Pac 12 and ACC, and I think it has a very good chance of doing that.

Anyone will be an upgrade from the vapid, empty suit Bowlsby.

[LTbear 4171]

Just now, DFW Horn said:

Anyone will be an upgrade from the vapid, empty suit Bowlsby.

I challenge your assertion of "anyone." Do you not remember Beebe? 

[closetohumping 17482]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's the exact sort of hire the Big 12 needed.  Someone outside the box.

The Big 12's niche will be branding itself as the "fun" league.  Without the population and big fanbases of the B1G/SEC, it will have to be a more entertaining product than the Pac 12 and ACC, and I think it has a very good chance of doing that.

IT's gonna be fun for sure.  I do look forward to some of the matchups as a) they're so new and b) there are a lot of different styles of play.

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

31 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

IT's gonna be fun for sure.  I do look forward to some of the matchups as a) they're so new and b) there are a lot of different styles of play.

I agree.  If we can find a viable place in the market (I think we can), there's a possibility that everyone is better off in terms of what they really want.  I think people who actually like college football will find a high level of entertainment value in the matchups and style of play that exist in the new Big 12, and the fanbase sizes are big enough that while they aren't like the upper half of the SEC and Big 10, they're far beyond the G5.

I think someone who's creative can turn the 3 time zones into a benefit as well.  You will have a presence in every TV window throughout a football Saturday.

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

1 hour ago, DFW Horn said:

Anyone will be an upgrade from the vapid, empty suit Bowlsby.

Beebee was worse, but Bowlsby isn't hard to improve upon.

['stache 21892]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's the exact sort of hire the Big 12 needed.  Someone outside the box.

The Big 12's niche will be branding itself as the "fun" league.  Without the population and big fanbases of the B1G/SEC, it will have to be a more entertaining product than the Pac 12 and ACC, and I think it has a very good chance of doing that.

Yup, and we have literally nothing to lose. Half the original conference is already gone or leaving. The newbs all have potential. We need someone to definitely think outside the box. We've all accepted that the SEC and Big 10 are the "winners" in conference realignment. We need to distinguish ourselves from the PAC and ACC. What that might be, who knows, that's why people get paid millions of dollars to do this type of work, so long as he actually works and doesn't just sit on ass in office as everything falls apart like the last overpaid moron.

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Yup, and we have literally nothing to lose. Half the original conference is already gone or leaving. The newbs all have potential. We need someone to definitely think outside the box. We've all accepted that the SEC and Big 10 are the "winners" in conference realignment. We need to distinguish ourselves from the PAC and ACC. What that might be, who knows, that's why people get paid millions of dollars to do this type of work, so long as he actually works and doesn't just sit on ass in office as everything falls apart like the last overpaid moron.

Exactly.  The generally higher enthusiasm of the Big 12 fanbases (compared to those leagues) will help, and a visionary leader who's willing to take some risks (particularly with streaming platforms) and can market the league aggressively is the best guy to get to that end.  The new guy seems far more likely to be that sort of character than someone already embedded in college athletics or academia.

[SimonBolivar 10961]

5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Yup, and we have literally nothing to lose.

Well some of us do. The New Big 12 is a hell of a lot better than playing in front of 13k in Tulsa on a Thursday night. I do like the hire though...

['stache 21892]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Exactly.  The generally higher enthusiasm of the Big 12 fanbases (compared to those leagues) will help, and a visionary leader who's willing to take some risks (particularly with streaming platforms) and can market the league aggressively is the best guy to get to that end.  The new guy seems far more likely to be that sort of character than someone already embedded in college athletics or academia.

That's another good point. He obviously has knowledge of modern forms of media and what the future might hold. We can't just have another dinosaur who thinks the way things have been is how its always going to be, because things are changing, and we need a path that is nothing like the SEC and Big 10. Case in point, the PAC tried to mimic the Big 10 in media tactics and it's failed miserably. It's going to need to be different. Let's see what ideas he can bring.

['stache 21892]

2 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Well some of us do. The New Big 12 is a hell of a lot better than playing in front of 13k in Tulsa on a Thursday night. I do like the hire though...

If we hired another geriatric like Bowlsby, that's where we'd be headed anyway. So, again, nothing to lose.

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

That's another good point. He obviously has knowledge of modern forms of media and what the future might hold. We can't just have another dinosaur who thinks the way things have been is how its always going to be, because things are changing, and we need a path that is nothing like the SEC and Big 10. Case in point, the PAC tried to mimic the Big 10 in media tactics and it's failed miserably. It's going to need to be different. Let's see what ideas he can bring.

The Amazon's and Netflix's of the world need a guinea pig for wider school college sports.  CBS needs more sports content.  Even the new Big 12 will blow away anything they put on TV on a Saturday that isn't the Big 10 and SEC.  It's pretty likely that the streaming tech giants will be willing to give you very good compensation for being willing to be the first to go out on that limb.

[LTtxfan 49378]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The Amazon's and Netflix's of the world need a guinea pig for wider school college sports.  CBS needs more sports content.  Even the new Big 12 will blow away anything they put on TV on a Saturday that isn't the Big 10 and SEC.  It's pretty likely that the streaming tech giants will be willing to give you very good compensation for being willing to be the first to go out on that limb.

 

Yeah Freevee might be a great place to watch B12 CFB

 

(not kidding)

[UTEX_ME 4766]

 

[ClubWhatever 12159]

Wut??

[Vertigo 20336]

26 minutes ago, UTEX_ME said:

 

That is a pretty bold hire. From the sound of it, the focus was on a forward thinking commissioner who had the balls to make moves proactively. Basically the opposite of Bowlsby in every way. I wonder how long it takes for CDC and Castiglione to start hitting him up to negotiate an earlier exit. 

[Nivek 16992]

My guess is that the exit strategy was worked out already.

[Foosters 17889]

apologies for a question that I'm sure has been addressed, but I'm in the complete dark when it comes to the SEC move.  What's the contractual language holding us up here? A&M left the conference within a year or two after the announcement. We're looking at 5+? 

[royiv 9383]

2 hours ago, UTEX_ME said:

 

That’s a damn good hire. Going to need someone bold and forward thinking to navigate the new environment. 

[UTEX_ME 4766]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

apologies for a question that I'm sure has been addressed, but I'm in the complete dark when it comes to the SEC move.  What's the contractual language holding us up here? A&M left the conference within a year or two after the announcement. We're looking at 5+? 

I believe it was aggy / corn / CU / mizzou moving so quickly last time is what prompted the stiffer penalties to get out on the next (current) TV deal... that probably is completely simplifying the situation however. 

[TrashMaster G 17632]

5 hours ago, Foosters said:

apologies for a question that I'm sure has been addressed, but I'm in the complete dark when it comes to the SEC move.  What's the contractual language holding us up here? A&M left the conference within a year or two after the announcement. We're looking at 5+? 

People not caring vs people caring

[closetohumping 17482]

4 hours ago, UTEX_ME said:

I believe it was aggy / corn / CU / mizzou moving so quickly last time is what prompted the stiffer penalties to get out on the next (current) TV deal... that probably is completely simplifying the situation however. 

I think that's certainly a part of it.  Also, we unnecessarily gave up leverage.  Where were these guys going to go without us?  I don't think we handled it well. 

[LTtxfan 49378]

11 hours ago, UTEX_ME said:

 

Looks like a good hire.  Found this in an article...

4. An innovative mind

While working with NASCAR, Yormark was named to Crain's "40 Under 40" list, an accomplishment he'd achieve again years later. Yormark also earned recognition from the Sports Business Journal, who named him to their "Forty Under 40" list three times, an award he shares with his brother.

He was instrumental in securing TV rights contracts with networks while at NASCAR and the Nets. NASCAR closed a $2.4 billion deal with Fox/NBC to televise its races with Yormark's help.

The Big 12's current media rights expire with FOX and ESPN in 2025, with negotiations for a renewal expected to begin in 2023.

"Brett is a talented and innovative executive who brings a remarkably unique perspective to the position," said Eric Shanks, the CEO and executive producer of Fox Sports in a statement. 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/five-things-know-brett-yormark-191909423.html

[Tex Long 4456]

Pulled himself up by his own bootstraps, did he?

[camel at sea 589]

14 hours ago, Vertigo said:

That is a pretty bold hire. From the sound of it, the focus was on a forward thinking commissioner who had the balls to make moves proactively. Basically the opposite of Bowlsby in every way. I wonder how long it takes for CDC and Castiglione to start hitting him up to negotiate an earlier exit. 

The Big 12 will need someone who can sell their inventory, especially if the bridge with Disney is burned.  This guy's track record is pretty positive on that front and his basketball background couldn't have hurt (given that the new Big 12 can still make a strong case for being the top conference in that sport.)

I think the branding strategy will be a big challenge and this guy seems to have a background that fits on that front, too.  

[SimonBolivar 10961]

[SimkinsMan 4421]

Yormark is having a fun orientation week.

[Al_4_ISU 12506]

He just got handed a huge gift, that’s for sure.

[SimonBolivar 10961]

For leftover specific news I figured to use this thread. 

 

 

[Ignatius 4038]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:36 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

Maybe.  I don't know much about New York college football culture other than that there isn't much of one.

I thought that before I lived there for a few years, but what I found was that a shitload of New Yorkers are really into college football but went to smaller schools in the region who don’t play big time football. They’re into the big games of the week but don’t really have an allegiance to a particular team, definitely not Syracuse which might as well be in Buffalo, and sure as fuck not New Jersey-ass Rutgers….

[dcar00 14380]

On 6/28/2022 at 7:49 AM, Pig Bellmont said:

Yeah the whole argument is stupid. Most people in NY and the north east generally only care about the NFL. Hardly anyone follows college football and none of them watch Syracuse for anything but basketball. Even kids that went to Syracuse. 

Northeast is pretty much pro sports...basically goes like this NFL, MLB, NBA, Hockey, college basketball, curling, softball, soccer, lacrosse......college football.

[DFW Horn 6242]

14 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

I thought that before I lived there for a few years, but what I found was that a shitload of New Yorkers are really into college football but went to smaller schools in the region who don’t play big time football. They’re into the big games of the week but don’t really have an allegiance to a particular team, definitely not Syracuse which might as well be in Buffalo, and sure as fuck not New Jersey-ass Rutgers….

So, they're degenerate gamblers who like to bet on CFB?