Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[TrashMaster G 17599]

20 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

So the Big 12 took them for hoops, "TV market" and "recruiting grounds", but they're a f***ing joke in football. Good to know. 

['stache 21865]

23 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Isn’t the Big 12 now just the New American Conference?

Last I read, the new Big 12 teams will be making more than $30M per year, and the last numbers I saw from AAC payout per team was like $7M per year. So no, there is no real comparison as far as interest and ratings which is what the media companies are paying for.

[DFW Horn 6207]

5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Last I read, the new Big 12 teams will be making more than $30M per year, and the last numbers I saw from AAC payout per team was like $7M per year. So no, there is no real comparison as far as interest and ratings which is what the media companies are paying for.

But, how does the AAC media deal compare to the MWC's?

SDSU may need another home soon.

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Last I read, the new Big 12 teams will be making more than $30M per year, and the last numbers I saw from AAC payout per team was like $7M per year. So no, there is no real comparison as far as interest and ratings which is what the media companies are paying for.

Not to mention, I don't think the AAC has ever been paid more than the ACC and Pac 12.

['stache 21865]

9 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

But, how does the AAC media deal compare to the MWC's?

SDSU may need another home soon.

This article says $4M per year. Of course SDSU wants a better deal, and whatever the PAC gets will be significantly more than a MWC payday.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mountain-west-schools-could-pay-033309880.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMl-hDsM0w-lTh2NwM367rMeG6mBPrN4aQ-mKgQO0lRw6fl1F_ArEArLR1lwJ3CKfmWl7JWdFXCoL1JhNzcF1rN0kTq8DqMTt1h09JgxxCrTzpYJ3n97Ij5T9kSj02SkyhoeKz54lw72GiNvksaF3sNSi-slPTKRm3Hjp6q5esVx

[DFW Horn 6207]

23 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This article says $4M per year. Of course SDSU wants a better deal, and whatever the PAC gets will be significantly more than a MWC payday.

I'm surprised the AAC teams each get $7M. Advantage, SDSU

['stache 21865]

14 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

I'm surprised the AAC teams each get $7M. Advantage, SDSU

Most AAC teams are in a region that gives a shit about football. Same reason Big XII looks like it will get significantly more than the PAC. The interest just isn't there west of the Rockies outside USC and UO and UW to a lesser degree. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by 'stache

[DFW Horn 6207]

47 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Most AAC teams are in a region that gives a shit about football. Same reason Big XII looks like it will get significantly more than the PAC. The interest just isn't there west of the Rockies outside USC and UO and UW to a lesser degree. 

Yeah, but...

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by DFW Horn

[CashMcCoy 3199]

UH Football Stadium’s New Showcase Party Deck to Be a Big 12 Game Changer

This changes everything…

[thunderlounge 7935]

Houston? Fans?

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

Houston strikes me as a dollar store Texas.  Is that wrong?  Essentially the extremely high self opinion, but lacking the historical success/clout that warrants/explains the hubris.

They were the addition I was least excited about, and feel is farthest from being a legitimate power conference kind of school/fanbase/etc.  BYU is essentially always been a power conference school that wasn't invited to the party.  Cincy has a tradition of great coaching, a kick ass stadium, pretty solid fanbase, and a lot of growth potential in a football crazy state that previously had 1 power conference school.  UCF has a fairly large and extremely engaged fanbase, with a ton of growth potential.  Houston has the geography and access to talent, but they've never struck me as a worthy fanbase or really fitting at this level.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[mdmost 43050]

Sadly, you had to have Houston for the market but yes, they are going to struggle mightily in the Big 12. Basketball will be fine but football is going to suck. I think BYU could be the Big 12's Utah, always in the mix, always f'ing up someone's perfect season. UCF will struggle being on an island. It's a good add simply for the location. Cincinnati, I feel is going to struggle but again, great location for traveling fans. I think a lot of teams will benefit from OU being removed from the mix. That was a dedicated loss on most of their schedules. I'm going to guess that TCU benefits the most and have the coaching, facilities, and talent pool to become the big dog. oSu is probably next up and Gundy's every year loss to OU will be a thing of the past. 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

The question for OSU is whether they can continue Gundy's success after he's gone.  No one else has really been that successful there.

I think they can, due to being 3-4 hours from DFW and having an engaged fan base, and Pickens' money.  But it's unproven.

I think all the OG Big 12 schools are set up to stay relevant in the new league (even KU if they play their cards right), and I don't see anyone developing the stranglehold that OU had.

[TrashMaster G 17599]

1 hour ago, CashMcCoy said:

UH Football Stadium’s New Showcase Party Deck to Be a Big 12 Game Changer

This changes everything…

Damn.

I'm off to re-think all of college football after seeing this....

[TKthunder2 4997]

As bad as the UH addition was, UCF is worse. I think the Big 12 would look far better if they had gone with Memphis over UCF.

UH was in a power conference once upon a time, same goes for Cincy who won some basketball titles back in the day as well. BYU is basically the closest you could get without being in the club.

And then there is UCF. Never been in the club. Didn’t join D1 until 1985. Had 1 good year of football but brings little else to the table. They are basically Boise State in a better market.

Memphis (who also was never in the club either) has final four basketball success and a longer history of football, just without that one undefeated season.

Let me ask it another way. If new school #12 becomes a permanent cellar dweller in football, who would be the best fit. UCF on an island next to nobody, or Memphis far closer to the geographic center of the conference that has sports other than football on its resume?

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

8 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

As bad as the UH addition was, UCF is worse. I think the Big 12 would look far better if they had gone with Memphis over UCF.

UH was in a power conference once upon a time, same goes for Cincy who won some basketball titles back in the day as well. BYU is basically the closest you could get without being in the club.

And then there is UCF. Never been in the club. Didn’t join D1 until 1985. Had 1 good year of football but brings little else to the table. They are basically Boise State in a better market.

Memphis (who also was never in the club either) has final four basketball success and a longer history of football, just without that one undefeated season.

Let me ask it another way. If new school #12 becomes a permanent cellar dweller in football, who would be the best fit. UCF on an island next to nobody, or Memphis far closer to the geographic center of the conference that has sports other than football on its resume?

UCF is a much larger school than Memphis, in an area with more recruiting talent, and a more engaged fanbase.  They've done a lot more in football in the past decade as well.

I wouldn't have hated having Memphis over UCF due to proximity and geographic fit, but I think by pretty much every raw metric UCF is ahead of them.

[locodos 5393]

1 minute ago, TKthunder2 said:

As bad as the UH addition was, UCF is worse. I think the Big 12 would look far better if they had gone with Memphis over UCF.

UH was in a power conference once upon a time, same goes for Cincy who won some basketball titles back in the day as well. BYU is basically the closest you could get without being in the club.

And then there is UCF. Never been in the club. Didn’t join D1 until 1985. Had 1 good year of football but brings little else to the table. They are basically Boise State in a better market.

Memphis (who also was never in the club either) has final four basketball success and a longer history of football, just without that one undefeated season.

Let me ask it another way. If new school #12 becomes a permanent cellar dweller in football, who would be the best fit. UCF on an island next to nobody, or Memphis far closer to the geographic center of the conference that has sports other than football on its resume?

Counter point:  UCF has a huge Alumni base and it's growing.  Largest University in the US (or second)  They have flirted with real success and claim a MNC.  Gives recruiting anchor in Fl and an easy place to get to and from for travel.

I went to a "Game" there...  Tickets were $7 and the beer was cold and delivered to your seat.  One of the rowdiest environments I've ever seen from a "party during the game" perspective.  They dropped 60 on some other directional school and people were getting carried out in stretchers.  They make SEC schools look down right puritanical.  Oh yeah, the sound system was fantastic, I didn't recognize any of the music, but from the girls dancing all around to the music, I feel confident that was a me issue.  #GenXproblems

[DFW Horn 6207]

48 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

...and I don't see anyone developing the stranglehold that OU had.

This is what will make the Big 12 competition interesting and fun.

There's no reason UH can't surprise people if Fertitta and their money supports NIL at a high level. They've won the SWC 3x before and have given UT fits at times. Errbody recruits Houston for a reason - it's one of the top HS talent producers in the nation.

If TCU can do it, so can UH with financial backing and a few breaks.

[BurntOrange&White 40008]

15 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

As bad as the UH addition was, UCF is worse. I think the Big 12 would look far better if they had gone with Memphis over UCF.

UH was in a power conference once upon a time, same goes for Cincy who won some basketball titles back in the day as well. BYU is basically the closest you could get without being in the club.

And then there is UCF. Never been in the club. Didn’t join D1 until 1985. Had 1 good year of football but brings little else to the table. They are basically Boise State in a better market.

Memphis (who also was never in the club either) has final four basketball success and a longer history of football, just without that one undefeated season.

Let me ask it another way. If new school #12 becomes a permanent cellar dweller in football, who would be the best fit. UCF on an island next to nobody, or Memphis far closer to the geographic center of the conference that has sports other than football on its resume?

You are a very short sighted thinker about this.

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

9 minutes ago, locodos said:

Counter point:  UCF has a huge Alumni base and it's growing.  Largest University in the US (or second)  They have flirted with real success and claim a MNC.  Gives recruiting anchor in Fl and an easy place to get to and from for travel.

I went to a "Game" there...  Tickets were $7 and the beer was cold and delivered to your seat.  One of the rowdiest environments I've ever seen from a "party during the game" perspective.  They dropped 60 on some other directional school and people were getting carried out in stretchers.  They make SEC schools look down right puritanical.  Oh yeah, the sound system was fantastic, I didn't recognize any of the music, but from the girls dancing all around to the music, I feel confident that was a me issue.  #GenXproblems

Definitely hoping ISU gets a late November game there some time.

[locodos 5393]

13 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Definitely hoping ISU gets a late November game there some time.

Don't go in August or even early September day game

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

3 minutes ago, locodos said:

Don't go in August or even early September day game

Those are the only other times I could possibly go.  I farm and our harvest generally runs from mid September to Thanksgiving.  It can start/end earlier some years, but 90% of football season is usually off the table.

[SimonBolivar 10959]

UCF and UH will win plenty of games in the B12 and there's no reason to think that either school will struggle (besides UH struggling to fill stadium) with their recruiting base.

[locodos 5393]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Those are the only other times I could possibly go.  I farm and our harvest generally runs from mid September to Thanksgiving.  It can start/end earlier some years, but 90% of football season is usually off the table.

Better farming than sitting in that sunblasted hell hole at noon.  I can only imagine what those metal bleachers would feel like.

Edited July 6, 2023 by locodos

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

4 minutes ago, locodos said:

Better farming than sitting in that sunblasted hell hole at noon.  I can only imagine what those metal bleachers would feel like.

I love listening to games on the radio, TBH.  

[statsman 5479]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Houston strikes me as a dollar store Texas.  Is that wrong?  Essentially the extremely high self opinion, but lacking the historical success/clout that warrants/explains the hubris.

They were the addition I was least excited about, and feel is farthest from being a legitimate power conference kind of school/fanbase/etc.  BYU is essentially always been a power conference school that wasn't invited to the party.  Cincy has a tradition of great coaching, a kick ass stadium, pretty solid fanbase, and a lot of growth potential in a football crazy state that previously had 1 power conference school.  UCF has a fairly large and extremely engaged fanbase, with a ton of growth potential.  Houston has the geography and access to talent, but they've never struck me as a worthy fanbase or really fitting at this level.

I am speechless about a Cyclone fan talking shit about UH’s football accomplishments 

['stache 21865]

UH will do fine. They have the commitment to athletics and some history of success. Memphis is a no go because their shitty stadium is a sign of a broader lack of commitment to athletics despite success in both major sports from time to time. KU is the only likely cellar dwellar for the same reasons they've been for so long. I looked into UH and I feel like they should have more AAC championships than they do, but they seem to be in the mix most years. I don't think any of the programs will be what Baylor was for the first decade of the Big XII. The draw of the new conference will be parity, nobody will dominate, and nobody (except maybe KU) will regularly be at the bottom. 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

5 minutes ago, statsman said:

I am speechless about a Cyclone fan talking shit about UH’s football accomplishments 

I'm talking shit about their fanbase and saying that their accomplishments don't merit having a Texas sized ego.  Am I wrong on either front?

I have no idea what they've done on the field other than be consistently decent for the past decade.  I'm sure they've done more on-field than ISU.  Most have.  But we'll have the second largest stadium and likely second highest attendance in the Big 12 after you guys leave.

And in the past decade Cincy's made the playoffs, UCF has won NY6 bowls, and BYU has been consistently tough my whole life.  That's who I'm comparing them to.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[locodos 5393]

6 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I love listening to games on the radio, TBH.  

same

[Texasrocks 2149]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Houston strikes me as a dollar store Texas.  Is that wrong?  Essentially the extremely high self opinion, but lacking the historical success/clout that warrants/explains the hubris.

They were the addition I was least excited about, and feel is farthest from being a legitimate power conference kind of school/fanbase/etc.  BYU is essentially always been a power conference school that wasn't invited to the party.  Cincy has a tradition of great coaching, a kick ass stadium, pretty solid fanbase, and a lot of growth potential in a football crazy state that previously had 1 power conference school.  UCF has a fairly large and extremely engaged fanbase, with a ton of growth potential.  Houston has the geography and access to talent, but they've never struck me as a worthy fanbase or really fitting at this level.

It's hard to imagine now, but the Andre Ware/David Klingler stretch was bonkers in Houston. I can't even imagine what that would have been like with social media.

[LTtxfan 49356]

Rank the "2024 Big 12 Schools" from most valuable to least

Not easy I know...  😋

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

1 minute ago, Texasrocks said:

It's hard to imagine now, but the Andre Ware/David Klingler stretch was bonkers in Houston. I can't even imagine what that would have been like with social media.

I was 4, so while I know those guys were big, I have no recollection of it and mostly know them as NFL busts

[lemonandaturd 4285]

In 1968, UH beat Tulsa 100 to 6.  Larry Gatlin replaced Elmo Wright at wide receiver when the score was 86 to 6.  Gatlin scored a TD to make it 92 to 6.  Twenty players off that team got selected in the NFL draft. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by lemonandaturd

[Park Gothic 5068]

35 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm talking shit about their fanbase and saying that their accomplishments don't merit having a Texas sized ego.  Am I wrong on either front?

I have no idea what they've done on the field other than be consistently decent for the past decade.  I'm sure they've done more on-field than ISU.  Most have.  But we'll have the second largest stadium and likely second highest attendance in the Big 12 after you guys leave.

And in the past decade Cincy's made the playoffs, UCF has won NY6 bowls, and BYU has been consistently tough my whole life.  That's who I'm comparing them to.

Yeah, you are pretty much wrong. Houston doesn't have massive success historically and the programs lows are extremely low, but the fan base isn't arrogant about football. Maybe a little about basketball, but that's more recent and more justified.

To be clear, Houston football boasts a Heisman winner and has won as many NY6 bowls as Texas has over the last 10 seasons. There is some success, but it's sporadic.

The worst thing about Houston fans (other than the usual gripes) is that they are fair-weather. When the team is down, they forget football exists. Even when the Texans suck and the Cougars are good, the Texans are 10x the draw. 

 If I had to compare UH fans to a current member of the Big 12, it would be that they are like TCU fans without all the money. 

[CashMcCoy 3199]

4 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

To be clear, Houston football boasts a Heisman winner and has won as many NY6 bowls as Texas has over the last 10 seasons.

We should hire that coach.

['stache 21865]

6 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

Yeah, you are pretty much wrong. Houston doesn't have massive success historically and the programs lows are extremely low, but the fan base isn't arrogant about football. Maybe a little about basketball, but that's more recent and more justified.

To be clear, Houston football boasts a Heisman winner and has won as many NY6 bowls as Texas has over the last 10 seasons. There is some success, but it's sporadic.

The worst thing about Houston fans (other than the usual gripes) is that they are fair-weather. When the team is down, they forget football exists. Even when the Texans suck and the Cougars are good, the Texans are 10x the draw. 

 If I had to compare UH fans to a current member of the Big 12, it would be that they are like TCU fans without all the money. 

Didn't I read somewhere (probably here) that UH is less of a commuter school than in the past? That seems to have been the line as to why their fanbase was not as loyal or rabid as most traditional big state schools where most students are young, live on campus, and form a strong connection to their alma mater.

Edited July 6, 2023 by 'stache

[Texas Wahoo 3417]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Didn't I read somewhere (probably here) that UH is less of a commuter school than in the past? That seems to have been the line as to why their fanbase was not as loyal or rabid as most traditional big state schools where most students are young, live on campus, and form a strong connection to their alma mater.

US News lists them as having 16% of students live on campus.  That does not necessarily tell the entire story, as a small percentage of UT students live on campus, but almost everyone lives in private apartments/housing near campus.  I'm not sure if UH has built up that level of private housing around the school.  Everyone I know that went to UH for undergrad lived at home and commuted across town, but that was 20 years ago or so.

[Park Gothic 5068]

24 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Didn't I read somewhere (probably here) that UH is less of a commuter school than in the past? That seems to have been the line as to why their fanbase was not as loyal or rabid as most traditional big state schools where most students are young, live on campus, and form a strong connection to their alma mater.

It's changing as the area around campus becomes less of a war zone and more students move in. But it is still a commuter school with shitty tailgating. 

That said - there has always been a "school within a school" at UH, where a core of ~10,000 students actually have a traditional college experience (live on or near campus, go greek, attend sporting events, go to the college bars, etc.) while the rest of the school is just there to get a degree and get on with their life. I went to UHLC and got in with that crowd during the Sumlin years. It was a decently fun football experience - nothing close to Austin, but not as bad as people like to say. 

I've always thought of the Big 12 (outside of UT and A&M) as being mostly small schools with rabid fanbases. UH is an odd fit in that sense. It is a relatively big school (about 40k undergrad) with a tepid fanbase. But the fans that do care aren't any better or worse than the average fanbase.  

Edited July 6, 2023 by Park Gothic
Upon further reflection, OU and NU are also small schools.

[Park Gothic 5068]

22 minutes ago, CashMcCoy said:

We should hire that coach.

[TrashMaster G 17599]

1 hour ago, locodos said:

Counter point:  UCF has a huge Alumni base and it's growing.  Largest University in the US (or second)  They have flirted with real success and claim a MNC.  Gives recruiting anchor in Fl and an easy place to get to and from for travel.

I went to a "Game" there...  Tickets were $7 and the beer was cold and delivered to your seat.  One of the rowdiest environments I've ever seen from a "party during the game" perspective.  They dropped 60 on some other directional school and people were getting carried out in stretchers.  They make SEC schools look down right puritanical.  Oh yeah, the sound system was fantastic, I didn't recognize any of the music, but from the girls dancing all around to the music, I feel confident that was a me issue.  #GenXproblems

"Game"?  Why the quotation marks?

 

1 hour ago, DFW Horn said:

This is what will make the Big 12 competition interesting and fun.

There's no reason UH can't surprise people if Fertitta and their money supports NIL at a high level. They've won the SWC 3x before and have given UT fits at times. Errbody recruits Houston for a reason - it's one of the top HS talent producers in the nation.

If TCU can do it, so can UH with financial backing and a few breaks.

No reason.  Other than the overwhelming majority of their competitive history.

 

[CashMcCoy 3199]

2 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

No reason.  Other than the overwhelming majority of their competitive history.

Party. Deck.

[locodos 5393]

3 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

"Game"?  Why the quotation marks?

 

No reason.  Other than the overwhelming majority of their competitive history.

 

I don't know, it seemed more like a party than a game.   It felt more like going to a bar that had football on.  The opponent was over matched and it seemed like the whole stadium was pounding beers (hyperbole)  The kids next to us, 2 guys and like 4-5 younger looking college girls were buying 15 whiteclaws at a crack on one guy's ID.   I left in the 3rd after the EMT crews started pulling people out of the stands and a few fights started breaking out among the UCF fans.

The school was created in the late 50's IIRC, it just seems like they are just figuring it all out, I can't imagine that they can let this carry on.  Maybe I just happened to be there on a weird night.  Fun, but a bit surreal.

Gotta be some Horns that went to the game in Orlando a few years back, Checks notes 15yrs ago.

[LTtxfan 49356]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Rank the "2024 Big 12 Schools" from most valuable to least

Not easy I know...  😋

 

 

Alright, I'll give this a try...

1. byu
2. tech
3. tcu
4. okie lite
5. kansas (basketball helps)
6. cyclones
7. k-state
8. baylor  (yuck)
9. cougar high (basketball helps)
10. wvu
11. cincy
12. ucf

[statsman 5479]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm talking shit about their fanbase and saying that their accomplishments don't merit having a Texas sized ego.  Am I wrong on either front?

I have no idea what they've done on the field other than be consistently decent for the past decade.  I'm sure they've done more on-field than ISU.  Most have.  But we'll have the second largest stadium and likely second highest attendance in the Big 12 after you guys leave.

And in the past decade Cincy's made the playoffs, UCF has won NY6 bowls, and BYU has been consistently tough my whole life.  That's who I'm comparing them to.

Look, I’m the farthest thing from a UH fan, but still…

Heismans- UH: 1, ISU: 0

All time win %- UH: 54%, ISU: 46%
 

Bowl games- UH: 30, ISU: 17

Conference titles- UH: 11, ISU: 2 (none since 1912)

I get why you look down on them. They can have good teams, but you really don’t credit for beating them and if, God forbid, they beat you, the pissants start celebrating like they have really accomplished something. I really get that. 

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

12 minutes ago, statsman said:

Look, I’m the farthest thing from a UH fan, but still…

Heismans- UH: 1, ISU: 0

All time win %- UH: 54%, ISU: 46%
 

Bowl games- UH: 30, ISU: 17

Conference titles- UH: 11, ISU: 2 (none since 1912)

I get why you look down on them. They can have good teams, but you really don’t credit for beating them and if, God forbid, they beat you, the pissants start celebrating like they have really accomplished something. I really get that. 

I never said, or even intimated, that ISU was better at football.  Whatever value ISU has is mostly based on the fervor and engagement of the fanbase, and a little bit off being consistently competitive in basketball.  Football was awful for years and has only recently been solid on a regular basis.  Only the most insane ISU fan wouldn't recognize this.

My looking down on Houston has nothing to do with their accomplishments and everything to do with their disinterest.

 

 

Random aside, this is another reminder that it's absolutely ridiculous that the Big 12 doesn't acknowledge winning the round robin after 2014.  The current Big 12 CCG is no different than the conference tournament in basketball.  The only difference is we quit giving the trophy to the team who won the round robin after the Baylor/TCU fiasco.  We won the league in 2020.  OU won the CCG.  Just like TCU and KSU last year.  I'm so sick of that stupid fucking graphic when had we done what we did in 2020 6 years prior, we'd have been given the trophy.  But TV and the playoff committee made us play a rematch.  Yes, I'm bitter.  Yes I realize it looks sour grapes.  I don't give a shit.  

Edited July 6, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[Crockett 494]

3 hours ago, locodos said:

Better farming than sitting in that sunblasted hell hole at noon.  I can only imagine what those metal bleachers would feel like.

Went to a game at Florida State in early September once and was sitting on those metal bleachers. Felt like I was sitting in one of those metallic sun cookers. 🥵

[LTbear 4171]

7 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Houston strikes me as a dollar store Texas.  Is that wrong?  Essentially the extremely high self opinion, but lacking the historical success/clout that warrants/explains the hubris.

They were the addition I was least excited about, and feel is farthest from being a legitimate power conference kind of school/fanbase/etc.  BYU is essentially always been a power conference school that wasn't invited to the party.  Cincy has a tradition of great coaching, a kick ass stadium, pretty solid fanbase, and a lot of growth potential in a football crazy state that previously had 1 power conference school.  UCF has a fairly large and extremely engaged fanbase, with a ton of growth potential.  Houston has the geography and access to talent, but they've never struck me as a worthy fanbase or really fitting at this level.

Agreed with all this, and I'm not trying to hate on UH. On the other hand, I'm not sure who a better #4 would have been.

[gernblansten 3197]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Random aside, this is another reminder that it's absolutely ridiculous that the Big 12 doesn't acknowledge winning the round robin after 2014.  The current Big 12 CCG is no different than the conference tournament in basketball.  The only difference is we quit giving the trophy to the team who won the round robin after the Baylor/TCU fiasco.  We won the league in 2020.  OU won the CCG.  Just like TCU and KSU last year.  I'm so sick of that stupid fucking graphic when had we done what we did in 2020 6 years prior, we'd have been given the trophy.  But TV and the playoff committee made us play a rematch.  Yes, I'm bitter.  Yes I realize it looks sour grapes.  I don't give a shit.  

I'm generally on board with the majority of your takes, but that take is something you'd normally see out of aggy.

[Al_4_ISU 12484]

2 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

I'm generally on board with the majority of your takes, but that take is something you'd normally see out of aggy.

That's fine, and I understand the sentiment.  I expected that reaction.

But explain to me how it's logical to acknowledge both regular season and tournament champions in basketball, have the same exact set up in football, but only recognize the winner of the rematch?

It isn't.  From 2012-2016 the Big 12 championship is the team who had the best record and tiebreakers at the end of the round robin.  The champion was determined on the field of play.  In 2017 we started a conference championship that forced the team who won the round robin to defend that title against a team it (most likely) already beat.  This was done because the playoff committee demanded a 13th data point, and the TV partners money whipped the league.  Since then, the team who won the round robin usually won the CCG.  In 2020 and 2022, they didn't.  If they want the CCG that's fine, just do what we do in basketball and recognize both.

Like I said, I'm fucking bitter about it because we did something that a couple years prior would have given us a trophy and ended that god damn 1912 graphic in every broadcast, but because the goal posts shifted arbitrarily, we're saddled with that.

I realize this is "little brother"y/whiney/aggy or whatever, but there's no logical defense to the way it's currently handled and I think anyone can see that.

 

 

15 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Agreed with all this, and I'm not trying to hate on UH. On the other hand, I'm not sure who a better #4 would have been.

I don't think there was a better #4.  Houston was that team by a pretty clear margin.

[royiv 9355]

6 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

BYU is basically the closest you could get without being in the club.

There are a lot of reasons BYU was never previously invited to a major conference. The Big XII is about to FAAFO about what a pain in the ass they are to have as a conference mate.