Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[n64ra 1,081]

50 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The idea of UCF or Houston making the Big 12 CCG in a year when it’s in Arrowhead is fucking hilarious to me

Is there any indication the Big 12 CCG is leaving Arlington in the 2030s?

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

2 minutes ago, n64ra said:

Is there any indication the Big 12 CCG is leaving Arlington in the 2030s?

No.  Just people spitballing in this thread.

[Longboard Horn 40,301]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Pretty much.  I've lived in Houston for a long time.  You wouldn't know they have a football team unless they're good (2015 Tom Herman team).  Same with basketball.  The city was all over UH's run the last 3 seasons.  Before that? Not a peep. 

2011 with Case Keenum. He was a Heisman finalist and UH finished 13-1 that year

[Longboard Horn 40,301]

1 hour ago, n64ra said:

Is there any indication the Big 12 CCG is leaving Arlington in the 2030s?

Nope they still have a contract with Jerry. Just added a few more years onto it.

[Zeus 6,018]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:10 PM, closetojumping said:

 

The gloves have already come off. The SEC and Big 10 have gone brazenly for the money grabs. That won’t be stopping in the future. They’ve allowed everyone else to be dealt into the game, for their own protection, but they’ll control the game. In the 12 team CFP era, you are living in fantasyland if you think damned good 3 loss teams from the two big conferences won’t get preference to non-conference-winning lesser brands with fewer losses. They’re not under any congressional or IRS pressure regarding the non-profit status and that isn’t going to change if 9-3 Bama, a ratings and revenue driver, gets in over  11-1 UW and all conferences and programs make more money for it. 

 

Yep

The committee is a front and the current system is pick the 4 best teams that also make the most money. I'm surprised TCU got in after losing the conference.

The 12 team era will be the same thing, just with more options and ways to make more money.

[camel at sea 589]

20 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Yep

The committee is a front and the current system is pick the 4 best teams that also make the most money. I'm surprised TCU got in after losing the conference.

The 12 team era will be the same thing, just with more options and ways to make more money.

The Frogs were helped a lot by the lack of good alternative options a year ago.  That said, Texas is home to a few great CFB media markets, so if we assume the committee cares about viewership, then the committee is going to want the state of Texas to have a rooting interest in the CFP whenever possible.  TCU-Michigan had 21.7M viewers (for comparison, UGA-tOSU was only slightly higher at 22.45M.)  TCU-KSU had 9.41M viewers (not much behind the SEC and B1G CCGs.)  Casual fans in Texas usually turn the TV on when an in-state team is good.    

The new Big 12 is going to be helped out, from time to time, by the strength of the viewership in Texas.   

Edited July 18, 2023 by camel at sea

[statsman 5,457]

I think B12 ratings will be tough, on a typical weekend when, say, Texas is playing Arkansas at noon, TAMU is playing Auburn at 3:30 and OU is playing South Carolina at 7PM. I don’t know that the rematch of the 2021 B12 CG between OSU and BU is going to pull in that many eyeballs. 
 
It’s good that the B12 is looking at playing Thursdays and Fridays. They might also try to schedule “marquee” matches for weekends that are idle for the southwest SEC teams. 

[FartingDreamer 138]

Big 12 is going to be just fine.

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

15 minutes ago, statsman said:

I think B12 ratings will be tough, on a typical weekend when, say, Texas is playing Arkansas at noon, TAMU is playing Auburn at 3:30 and OU is playing South Carolina at 7PM. I don’t know that the rematch of the 2021 B12 CG between OSU and BU is going to pull in that many eyeballs. 
 
It’s good that the B12 is looking at playing Thursdays and Fridays. They might also try to schedule “marquee” matches for weekends that are idle for the southwest SEC teams. 

How is this different than what has occurred in the Big 12 recently?  Other than Texas and OU not being Big 12 properties?

An OU/SC game isn't going to hurt OSU/Baylor any more than whatever game OU would be playing if it were still in the Big 12 would.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Al_4_ISU

[Nivek 16,923]

You know, Yormark would prolly go to Disney World... UCF is in Orlando, yeah?

12 really is a Mickey Mouse operation. Might as well bring in Steve Patterson to advise on how to add jetpack man to each conference meeting as well.

['stache 21,802]

Big XII CCG isn't getting bumped to a Friday to accommodate SEC. Like someone else said, maybe XII plays at 11:00 and SEC at 7:00. My best guess is that if the networks really want SEC at Jerryworld in a given year, XII would play in Houston, or even San Antonio. I don't think any of these games will ever get played again outside of a dome. Also, if SEC is really interested in Texas, why not Houston? Close to LSU, aggy, and UT, with a large contingent of OU fans in town and not any further of a drive than Nashville or Atlanta. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by 'stache

[Hurtlocker 2,212]

1 hour ago, statsman said:

I think B12 ratings will be tough, on a typical weekend when, say, Texas is playing Arkansas at noon, TAMU is playing Auburn at 3:30 and OU is playing South Carolina at 7PM. I don’t know that the rematch of the 2021 B12 CG between OSU and BU is going to pull in that many eyeballs. 
 
It’s good that the B12 is looking at playing Thursdays and Fridays. They might also try to schedule “marquee” matches for weekends that are idle for the southwest SEC teams. 

Tiny TCU/ISU last year drew 4.4m opposite the Iron Bowl, which drew 6.6m.   It was bigger than Texas A&M/LSU, which played in prime on the same day, and bigger than Aggies' games against Miami, Arkansas, and Florida, and only behind Aggy's game with Alabama.   Texas A&M/Auburn didn't even get off the SECN.  The B12's ceiling is no where near what the top of the SEC brings, but they still capture a lot of eyeballs in a tier below "big brands playing great".   This is the reason the big money is coming into the SEC, as there are enough big brands at 16 that someone will always be winning, allowing that only the best games will be broadcast in the top two windows per Saturday.  If you're not winning though, you'll will be swept under the rug from an exposure standpoint.

I mentioned before that this move is going to help Texas' audiences considerably.   That doesn't mean this tide rises all boats.   A LOT of games Oklahoma currently sees broadcast due to the B12's contract, where they are always choice 1a or 1b in any given week, will drop networks and many will be on the SECN as they'll fall to choice 3, 4, or 5 in any given day.  That's going to be a major change.  Over time they will likely see less marquee game times unless they continue to be 10 and 11 win world beaters vying for a title.   There will also be days when Oklahoma State has a better draw than an Oklahoma game, not because Oklahoma State is a better brand, but because the B12 is guaranteed good spots and Oklahoma has to be louder than Texas, Alabama, LSU, and A&M, to get the best SEC weekly draws, and that is just in the western half!   Oklahoma State just needs to be louder than the rest of the Big 12 on that day.

Those Thursday and Friday prime games aren't as good as ABC at noon/330/prime, but they're better than any ESPN2/U/FS1/Plus slot, so their 3rd-5th choices end up there, depending on what Fox does, which isn't a bad decision for them all things considered.   That being said, the teams doing well in the B12 should be able to hold their own in most marquee slots, though wont be able to touch the top numbers Texas draws.

[billfromlaketravis 11,456]

9 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The idea of UCF or Houston making the Big 12 CCG in a year when it’s in Arrowhead is fucking hilarious to me

This needs to happen. 

[Hook1997 5,354]

4 hours ago, 'stache said:

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Hook1997
Delete

[statsman 5,457]

(He’s talking about Houston Reliant Stadium as an option to Jerryworld, not the Houston Cougars)

Edited July 19, 2023 by statsman

[Hook1997 5,354]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

(He’s talking about Houston Reliant Stadium as an option to Jerryworld)

Ah gotcha, I wasn’t paying attention and just breezing thru.  

[TKthunder2 4,988]

5 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Tiny TCU/ISU last year drew 4.4m opposite the Iron Bowl, which drew 6.6m.   It was bigger than Texas A&M/LSU, which played in prime on the same day, and bigger than Aggies' games against Miami, Arkansas, and Florida, and only behind Aggy's game with Alabama.   Texas A&M/Auburn didn't even get off the SECN.  The B12's ceiling is no where near what the top of the SEC brings, but they still capture a lot of eyeballs in a tier below "big brands playing great".   This is the reason the big money is coming into the SEC, as there are enough big brands at 16 that someone will always be winning, allowing that only the best games will be broadcast in the top two windows per Saturday.  If you're not winning though, you'll will be swept under the rug from an exposure standpoint.

I mentioned before that this move is going to help Texas' audiences considerably.   That doesn't mean this tide rises all boats.   A LOT of games Oklahoma currently sees broadcast due to the B12's contract, where they are always choice 1a or 1b in any given week, will drop networks and many will be on the SECN as they'll fall to choice 3, 4, or 5 in any given day.  That's going to be a major change.  Over time they will likely see less marquee game times unless they continue to be 10 and 11 win world beaters vying for a title.   There will also be days when Oklahoma State has a better draw than an Oklahoma game, not because Oklahoma State is a better brand, but because the B12 is guaranteed good spots and Oklahoma has to be louder than Texas, Alabama, LSU, and A&M, to get the best SEC weekly draws, and that is just in the western half!   Oklahoma State just needs to be louder than the rest of the Big 12 on that day.

Those Thursday and Friday prime games aren't as good as ABC at noon/330/prime, but they're better than any ESPN2/U/FS1/Plus slot, so their 3rd-5th choices end up there, depending on what Fox does, which isn't a bad decision for them all things considered.   That being said, the teams doing well in the B12 should be able to hold their own in most marquee slots, though wont be able to touch the top numbers Texas draws.

No one outside of the State of Texas gave a shit about TCU until they beat UT. Once they did, people began to believe they’d make the 4 team playoff and their rating doubled from 2 million to 4 million.

The WEAK Iron Bowl this year with a horrible Auburn and basically out of the running for a playoff spot Alabama still beat them.

aggy/LSU was a joke this year too and it was opposite USC/ND which had playoff implications.

TCU’s final 2 games and the CCG is what the Big 12 can do at its peak not what it will do routinely.

Will the 12 team playoff drive more interest or less? Would anyone give a shit about TCU/Iowa State if TCU was a virtual lock? UGA/GT only pulled 2 million viewers this year so that works both ways.

I’m curious to see how it shakes out. I think the Big 12 is in as good a spot it can be right now, with only shutting out the PAC from ESPN/FOX and adding a weekly Late kick could elevate their position even more.

[Satchel 6,938]

3 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

No one outside of the State of Texas gave a shit about TCU until they beat UT. Once they did, people began to believe they’d make the 4 team playoff and their rating doubled from 2 million to 4 million.

The WEAK Iron Bowl this year with a horrible Auburn and basically out of the running for a playoff spot Alabama still beat them.

aggy/LSU was a joke this year too and it was opposite USC/ND which had playoff implications.

TCU’s final 2 games and the CCG is what the Big 12 can do at its peak not what it will do routinely.

Will the 12 team playoff drive more interest or less? Would anyone give a shit about TCU/Iowa State if TCU was a virtual lock? UGA/GT only pulled 2 million viewers this year so that works both ways.

I’m curious to see how it shakes out. I think the Big 12 is in as good a spot it can be right now, with only shutting out the PAC from ESPN/FOX and adding a weekly Late kick could elevate their position even more.

People started noticing TCU after their win against Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. Generally speaking they’ve made the most of their opportunities, unlike some other schools. I suspect they’ll continue to do the same despite not being in the big 2

[TKthunder2 4,988]

25 minutes ago, Satchel said:

People started noticing TCU after their win against Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. Generally speaking they’ve made the most of their opportunities, unlike some other schools. I suspect they’ll continue to do the same despite not being in the big 2

No one gives a shit about TCU nationally. If they are in the playoff picture they they watch, otherwise they can get some juice just because people in Texas/DFW will watch.

Take out UT/OU games and TCU had 2 regular season games pull 4 million viewers (ISU and Baylor, both late season after they beat UT and people nationally recognized them as a real playoff contender) and 2 pull 2 million (when they played Tech right before UT, and OSU in week 7).

Hitting 4 million viewers is a milestone, and it does not happen regularly. Extrapolating TCU’s playoff run as something the Big 12 can replicate year in year out with the same level of novelty is a flawed argument.

2 million sure, getting quality ranked vs ranked matchups on FOX/ABC may even pull 3, but for 4 it typically has to have national interest which is where the new Big 12 will likely struggle.

Prior to TCU this last year do you know the last 4 million viewer conference game the Big 12 has had without UT/OU?

You have to go back to 2015 for Baylor/OSU and Baylor/TCU. Games where people thought Baylor had a chance to speak into the CFP late in the season. Sound familiar?

But as I said before, without UT/OU, the remaining Big 12 schools will have more opportunities to get a heavily watch game and they’ll likely do better than a pair once every 7 years, but even the RRSO didn’t pull 4 million every year, so it’s not an automatic by any means.

[BachelorTrek 2,967]

15 hours ago, 66BUFF said:

 

 

RedditCFB

 

@RedditCFB

 

Baylor has lodged a petition to eject BYU from the Big 12

[Aqua Buddha 14,588]

 

[Satchel 6,938]

14 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

No one gives a shit about TCU nationally. If they are in the playoff picture they they watch, otherwise they can get some juice just because people in Texas/DFW will watch.

Take out UT/OU games and TCU had 2 regular season games pull 4 million viewers (ISU and Baylor, both late season after they beat UT and people nationally recognized them as a real playoff contender) and 2 pull 2 million (when they played Tech right before UT, and OSU in week 7).

Hitting 4 million viewers is a milestone, and it does not happen regularly. Extrapolating TCU’s playoff run as something the Big 12 can replicate year in year out with the same level of novelty is a flawed argument.

2 million sure, getting quality ranked vs ranked matchups on FOX/ABC may even pull 3, but for 4 it typically has to have national interest which is where the new Big 12 will likely struggle.

Prior to TCU this last year do you know the last 4 million viewer conference game the Big 12 has had without UT/OU?

You have to go back to 2015 for Baylor/OSU and Baylor/TCU. Games where people thought Baylor had a chance to speak into the CFP late in the season. Sound familiar?

But as I said before, without UT/OU, the remaining Big 12 schools will have more opportunities to get a heavily watch game and they’ll likely do better than a pair once every 7 years, but even the RRSO didn’t pull 4 million every year, so it’s not an automatic by any means.

Well, that’s certainly one way of looking at it, although it is true. When it comes to brand and viewership, TCU does not resonate nationally: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-football/ohio-state-michigan-ranked-most-popular-college-football-teams-per-study

[LTtxfan 49,170]

3 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Well, that’s certainly one way of looking at it, although it is true. When it comes to brand and viewership, TCU does not resonate nationally: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-football/ohio-state-michigan-ranked-most-popular-college-football-teams-per-study

Fuck toads for this...

[TxEx84 398]

9 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Well, that’s certainly one way of looking at it, although it is true. When it comes to brand and viewership, TCU does not resonate nationally: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-football/ohio-state-michigan-ranked-most-popular-college-football-teams-per-study

Duke FOOTBALL is the fourth most popular team?!?

 

[TrashMaster G 17,551]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:56 AM, 'stache said:

I think the Big XII football championship will always be at Jerryworld and the basketball tournament in KC. It seems to work as DFW is a big market with a big stadium that is relatively central to the teams, same with KC. I assume baseball will be in Arlington permanently too because, even though the atmosphere is dogshit and nobody in DFW seems to care, the roof keeps it cool and prevents rain delays. I'd say 50-50 that the SEC football championship ever gets played at Jerryworld, the old guard would likely be against it, just my guess (very different than media days where only a small part of the fanbase tunes in, most of us just read headlines and articles of interest, very few are live streaming the whole day on Youtube). 

 

On 7/18/2023 at 9:57 AM, Thiefery said:

I think the stadium could do both.. like if the SEC decided to rotate the CCG games between Atlanta and Dallas.. Big12 could play Friday night and the SEC play Saturday night.. who says no to that??

The new Nashville stadium makes way more sense than JerryWorld, being right in the middle of the SEC footprint.

[TrashMaster G 17,551]

On 7/17/2023 at 11:42 AM, Js1 said:

Yeah I just cannot figure why the SEC would do it’s media days next year in Dallas, halfway between its 2 newest blue blood members, who play their historic rivalry game in that city, and do media days at a stadium owned by one their members’ biggest benefactors 

Must be Texas controlling everything! 

*its

 

On 7/18/2023 at 10:09 AM, BurntOrange&White said:

That would be hilarious that the SEC forces big 12 to have it's conference title game on Friday lol.

*its

['stache 21,802]

58 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Fuck toads for this...

No lies detected, but this is an image not a link. How did TCU convey this message to survivors? If they brought sports rivalry into it, I can agree its kinda shitty. The athletic department in Waco should've been shut down after that, only a few years after the basketball murder scandal. 

[Texas Wahoo 3,391]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

No lies detected, but this is an image not a link. How did TCU convey this message to survivors? If they brought sports rivalry into it, I can agree its kinda shitty. The athletic department in Waco should've been shut down after that, only a few years after the basketball murder scandal. 

By hiring Baby Briles as OC.

['stache 21,802]

10 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

By hiring Baby Briles as OC.

Ah, I forgot about that, and misinterpreted the headline. Yeah, fuck them, same with Arky.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,547]

17 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

TCU’s final 2 games and the CCG is what the Big 12 can do at its peak not what it will do routinely.

Will the 12 team playoff drive more interest or less? Would anyone give a shit about TCU/Iowa State if TCU was a virtual lock? UGA/GT only pulled 2 million viewers this year so that works both ways.

I wonder about this too. I'm thinking that maybe the CCG will get big numbers because it's for an automatic bid, but maybe the lead up games aren't as big of a deal. Maybe the fact that 12 teams get in diminishes the interest in those lead up games vs more of a win or go home scenario. 

[Uncle Nate 2,097]

1 hour ago, TrashMaster G said:

 

The new Nashville stadium makes way more sense than JerryWorld, being right in the middle of the SEC footprint.

Titans got a new stadium?  Did not know that. 

[Texas Wahoo 3,391]

26 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Titans got a new stadium?  Did not know that. 

In 2027. 

[closetohumping 17,438]

On 7/18/2023 at 1:14 PM, 'stache said:

Big XII CCG isn't getting bumped to a Friday to accommodate SEC. Like someone else said, maybe XII plays at 11:00 and SEC at 7:00. My best guess is that if the networks really want SEC at Jerryworld in a given year, XII would play in Houston, or even San Antonio. I don't think any of these games will ever get played again outside of a dome. Also, if SEC is really interested in Texas, why not Houston? Close to LSU, aggy, and UT, with a large contingent of OU fans in town and not any further of a drive than Nashville or Atlanta. 

Don’t need houston to deliver the houston market.  Don’t need Smi to deliver Dallas.  Texas delivers both. 

[closetohumping 17,438]

15 hours ago, TxEx84 said:

Duke FOOTBALL is the fourth most popular team?!?

 

In North Carolina. 
 

UNC

NCSU

WFU

Duke

['stache 21,802]

2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Don’t need houston to deliver the houston market.  Don’t need Smi to deliver Dallas.  Texas delivers both. 

Not about markets just location. Houston feels more sec sec sec than Dallas.

[statsman 5,457]

What the B12 will need is a plan for intersectional play. Which teams will be able to reach agreements for home-and-homes with blue bloods from other conferences. If they are only playing each other, G5 and FCS schools, and P5 schools of similar size, how will any attract national recognition?

If one is undefeated, it will probably be ok. How about others?

Edited July 20, 2023 by statsman

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Not about markets just location. Houston feels more sec sec sec than Dallas.

Yeah, Houston felt like the deep South when I was there, as opposed to the rest of Texas.  Dallas has almost as much of a plains Midwest vibe/crossed with opulent Cowboy culture thing as it feels like the traditional South.

['stache 21,802]

Just now, statsman said:

What the B12 will need is a plan for intersectional play. Which teams will be able to reach agreements for home-and-homes with blue bloods from other conferences. If they are only playing each other, G5 and FCS schools, and P5 schools of similar size, how will any attract national

recognition?

These were obviously scheduled before the last round of realignment, but OKST has home and home series scheduled for the next several years with Alabama, Oregon, Nebraska, Arkansas, and Colorado. 

[Earl Haffler 590]

15 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

Titans got a new stadium?  Did not know that. 

 

[MisterP 127]

24 minutes ago, Earl Haffler said:

 

I like how the screens show #25 on the bills getting trucked, but yet the people on the field haven't snapped the ball.

[LW Goatman 1,121]

I believe they have instant replay, even in Tennessee. 

[Earl Haffler 590]

4 minutes ago, LW Goatman said:

I believe they have instant replay, even in Tennessee. 

I live in Nashville and I can replay, but after about 30 minutes.

[David Dennison 18,854]

Wow.

 

[TKthunder2 4,988]

Only 60k seats? That’s cute.

[Deej 76,759]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

These were obviously scheduled before the last round of realignment, but OKST has home and home series scheduled for the next several years with Alabama, Oregon, Nebraska, Arkansas, and Colorado. 

So one blue blood?

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Not about markets just location. Houston feels more sec sec sec than Dallas.

For now....

 

Dallas is huge Texas/OU base there. Plenty of Arkansas and Aggie fans as well. Once SEC marketing starts happening in Dallas with Texas/OU and A&M/Arkansas having neutral site games there and more often the SEC media days being there it's going to shift. 

[LTtxfan 49,170]

12 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

For now.... Dallas is huge Texas/OU base there. Plenty of Arkansas and Aggie fans as well. Once SEC marketing starts happening in Dallas with Texas/OU and A&M/Arkansas having neutral site games there and more often the SEC media days being there it's going to shift. 

Yeah, I met a lot of tech and blOU fans when I lived in the DFW area... the local sports radio there has always seemed to dislike the Longhorns. 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12,457]

37 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

For now....

 

Dallas is huge Texas/OU base there. Plenty of Arkansas and Aggie fans as well. Once SEC marketing starts happening in Dallas with Texas/OU and A&M/Arkansas having neutral site games there and more often the SEC media days being there it's going to shift. 

I think he meant that Houston feels more like a Southern city than Dallas.

Dallas has more in common with Kansas City than it does Atlanta.  Houston has in more in common with Atlanta than KC.  JMO, of course.

[nbmishoid 949]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Yeah, Houston felt like the deep South when I was there, as opposed to the rest of Texas.  Dallas has almost as much of a plains Midwest vibe/crossed with opulent Cowboy culture thing as it feels like the traditional South.

ISU

Dallas is the LA of Texas.  Houston is gulf coast, a bit Cajun, historically, but now just uniquely Houston.

[tejas60 3,533]

Dallas is the cocaine and boob job crowd.