Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[TKthunder2 4989]

3 minutes ago, tejas60 said:

Dallas is the cocaine and boob job crowd.

Home to the $30,000 millionaires 

[DFW Horn 6123]

49 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Yeah, I met a lot of tech and blOU fans when I lived in the DFW area... the local sports radio there has always seemed to dislike the Longhorns. 

Sure, if you're listening to The Ticket with their slapdick, UNT grads who double as BlOU fan-boys. Fuck those guys, especially The Musers.

['stache 21802]

42 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think he meant that Houston feels more like a Southern city than Dallas.

Dallas has more in common with Kansas City than it does Atlanta.  Houston has in more in common with Atlanta than KC.  JMO, of course.

This. The media in Dallas also doesn’t give a shit about college sports in general (outside the RRR) . I lived in Dallas when the Big XII basketball tournament was at the AAC and literally no radio station had people there or even talked about it, I was shocked. When it was in OKC it was basically the Super Bowl. 

[DFW Horn 6123]

13 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This. The media in Dallas also doesn’t give a shit about college sports in general (outside the RRR) . I lived in Dallas when the Big XII basketball tournament was at the AAC and literally no radio station had people there or even talked about it, I was shocked. When it was in OKC it was basically the Super Bowl. 

The media in Houston doesn't give a shit about college sports, either, unless UH makes it to the Final Four.

['stache 21802]

I figured they at least cover aggy pretty well for the hoards of aggy living the good life in their Katy and Sugarland McMansions.

Edited July 20, 2023 by 'stache

[fattyflattie 4639]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I figured they at least cover aggy pretty well for the hoards of aggy living the good life in their Katy and Sugarland McMansions.

They do.  Aggy seemed to get a bunch of slots on the local ESPN around '14-15 or so.   They've got the Buzz show, the jimbo at Rudy's call in show, etc.  

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

29 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This. The media in Dallas also doesn’t give a shit about college sports in general (outside the RRR) . I lived in Dallas when the Big XII basketball tournament was at the AAC and literally no radio station had people there or even talked about it, I was shocked. When it was in OKC it was basically the Super Bowl. 

Complete sidebar, but those Big 12 tournaments in Dallas sucked.  If they ever occasionally rotate the basketball tournament in the future, I could see OKC and Des Moines being a lot of fun.  It's a pretty good time of year for me and my cousin lives in Tulsa (and is a huge Cyclone fan), so I could totally see making an OKC tourney.

[Magus Ossis 2798]

$20,000 taxpayer dollars per seat. I hope they like them a lot.

 

edit was replying to the 1.2B contribution to the 60k seat Titans stadium plan

Edited July 20, 2023 by Magus Ossis

[camel at sea 589]

11 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Complete sidebar, but those Big 12 tournaments in Dallas sucked.  If they ever occasionally rotate the basketball tournament in the future, I could see OKC and Des Moines being a lot of fun.  It's a pretty good time of year for me and my cousin lives in Tulsa (and is a huge Cyclone fan), so I could totally see making an OKC tourney.

OKC is a Thunder town now, and didn't do a great job with the men's tourney the last time it hosted (hence it hasn't been back.)  Local interest was lacking.  It doesn't help that the two Oklahoma schools have steadily shown less interest in men's basketball since the early 2000s and now one of them is gone.  If the Big 12 tourney had to be in Oklahoma, the BOK Center in Tulsa would be a better host site than OKC.

The best answer by far is to leave the tourney in KC.  

['stache 21802]

I think it's permanent now. KC for basketball, Arlington for football and baseball. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by 'stache

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

I’m not advocating for moving the tourney. I love KC and it’s an easy drive. I’m just saying if they did go down that road, I could enjoy one in OKC (or Tulsa).

[Hagbard Celine 10853]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Dallas has more in common with Kansas City than it does Atlanta.  Houston has in more in common with Atlanta than KC.  JMO, of course.

kc is monolithic midwest

2m metro, 70% white, no carpetbaggers

dallas, houston, orlando, phoenix, rdu - pin the tail on a strip mall - same chains, same architecture - same same same

all are southern-tier cities with 90% of their current size increase happening post-war, 50% of their pop union-born carpetbaggers

nortex: 8m metro, 43% anglo, 30% hispanic, 16% african american, and giant populations from countries around the werld

e.g.: there are 50000 ethiopians living in nortex

the one thing kc shares with atlanta is a delusion regarding their 'que methodology

houston and dallas share one thing for sure: the proper, Texas way to smoke meat

 

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

5 hours ago, statsman said:

What the B12 will need is a plan for intersectional play. Which teams will be able to reach agreements for home-and-homes with blue bloods from other conferences. If they are only playing each other, G5 and FCS schools, and P5 schools of similar size, how will any attract national recognition?

If one is undefeated, it will probably be ok. How about others?

Yeah... the Big12 should form an alliance with some other conferences. Look how well that worked out for the Pac12 when they made an alliance with the Big10 and ACC.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

20 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

houston and dallas share one thing for sure: the proper, Texas way to smoke meat

Is that the thing where they tell everyone they do it one "pure" way but are actually not doing it that way?  

[Mr. Drummond 2198]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I figured they at least cover aggy pretty well for the hoards of aggy living the good life in their Katy and Sugarland McMansions.

Hey, don't lump SL in with Katy.      Katy and Cypress are aggy.    We are better than that, plus we have our indian/asians to keep the UT numbers up.

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

46 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

kc is monolithic midwest

2m metro, 70% white, no carpetbaggers

dallas, houston, orlando, phoenix, rdu - pin the tail on a strip mall - same chains, same architecture - same same same

all are southern-tier cities with 90% of their current size increase happening post-war, 50% of their pop union-born carpetbaggers

nortex: 8m metro, 43% anglo, 30% hispanic, 16% african american, and giant populations from countries around the werld

e.g.: there are 50000 ethiopians living in nortex

the one thing kc shares with atlanta is a delusion regarding their 'que methodology

houston and dallas share one thing for sure: the proper, Texas way to smoke meat

 

 

When I've been to Houston it felt like a completely different planet compared to home.  Dallas was something I recognized and can wrap my head around.  The two of them seemed worlds apart to me, but that's just a visitor's observation.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3276]

8 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

When I've been to Houston it felt like a completely different planet compared to home.  Dallas was something I recognized and can wrap my head around.  The two of them seemed worlds apart to me, but that's just a visitor's observation.

Houston is home for me, and different parts of Houston even feel like they are on completely different planets from one another. Joke about "portaling" all the time with my signifiant other as we drive around all the damn time.

Maybe we can let the Pac12 borrow Houston's portals to find a place where their media deal is already done? Sunnyside maybe?
 

[thunderlounge 7816]

1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the one thing kc shares with atlanta is a delusion regarding their 'que methodology

Truth. 

[gmr548 16576]

1 hour ago, Mr. Drummond said:

Hey, don't lump SL in with Katy.      Katy and Cypress are aggy.    We are better than that, plus we have our indian/asians to keep the UT numbers up.

It's true. The aggy belt is pretty much centered on the Grand Parkway and runs through the outside-the-beltway burbs of Fulshear, Katy, Waller, Cypress, Tomball, Magnolia, The Woodlands, and Conroe. Then it hooks southward into Humble. But really the core of it is from Magnolia to Katy. Aggy everywhere up there.

[Okie State 3818]

In my experience the Indian/Asian population is pushing the Aggy contingent further West into Fulshear and beyond. Off the top of my head my neighborhood has UT, Rice, Notre Dame, random SEC schools and of course a few of the Tech/Aggy/Baylors as expected. It's actually a pretty nice mix.

[Sandman 3403]

6 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

When I've been to Houston it felt like a completely different planet compared to home.  Dallas was something I recognized and can wrap my head around.  The two of them seemed worlds apart to me, but that's just a visitor's observation.

It's the palm trees. They always catch me off guard when I drive into Houston. "Wait...what?"

[billfromlaketravis 11458]

13 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Yeah, Houston felt like the deep South when I was there, as opposed to the rest of Texas.  Dallas has almost as much of a plains Midwest vibe/crossed with opulent Cowboy culture thing as it feels like the traditional South.

Not entirely wrong on Houston. I don’t know when you lived here, what neighborhood, and yes I’ve heard the east of Dallas is the South stuff before. 
 

Houston in my mind is a jobs city. People come here for work. Some stay. Some leave. It’s a weird culture. I’ll concede there are a ton of recent SEC grads here. 

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

6 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Not entirely wrong on Houston. I don’t know when you lived here, what neighborhood, and yes I’ve heard the east of Dallas is the South stuff before. 
 

Houston in my mind is a jobs city. People come here for work. Some stay. Some leave. It’s a weird culture. I’ll concede there are a ton of recent SEC grads here. 

I’ve only ever visited Texas.  I’m not claiming a deep learned knowledge, just giving my impressions as a visitor.

The area between Dallas and Austin has always surprised me at how Midwestern it looked.  It’s the cornfields and grain elevator skylines on the small towns.

[BachelorTrek 2967]

7 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I’ve only ever visited Texas.  I’m not claiming a deep learned knowledge, just giving my impressions as a visitor.

The area between Dallas and Austin has always surprised me at how Midwestern it looked.  It’s the cornfields and grain elevator skylines on the small towns.

Those things are also found between Austin and Houston.

[Frank Drebin 5663]

On 7/15/2023 at 5:44 AM, TexArcher said:

I think people are underestimating how much every 4-star and 5-star prospect is going to want to play in the Big 10 or SEC.  And if they want to play early, or if they'd rather be a star on a lesser team than a role player at Bama, there are going to be about two dozen schools in the Big 10 and SEC where they can do that.

The point being, I don't think there's going to be any solid #3 conference.  I think it'll take 5 or so years, but we're gonna end up with 2 super-conferences and a bunch of Conference USA's.

And yes, a certain amount, probably a lot, of the viewership of Big 12 also-ran games was Texas and OU fans watching a game that had implications for their own standings, or just to take a look at the team they were gonna play next week, etc.  I used to watch several non-Texas B12 games a year.  I will watch exactly zero after we leave.  And I'm pretty sure there are an awful lot of Texas and OU fans who feel the same.

Bottom line, this is worse for the left-behinds than they realize and/or want to admit.  

The Big 12 got a decent TV deal basically as a payout to the left behind schools so Texas and OU could leave without litigation.  Next time they are up for a tv deal, they won't be getting that bump.  The disparity will only increase

[Vertigo 20276]

10 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

The Big 12 got a decent TV deal basically as a payout to the left behind schools so Texas and OU could leave without litigation.  Next time they are up for a tv deal, they won't be getting that bump.  The disparity will only increase

The B12 mouthpieces are convinced that their next TV deal is going to be around $45-50 million per school. But to get that, they are going to have to have a level of sustained success over the next few years and I am just not convinced that is going to happen. Texas and OU going to the SEC is going to put a squeeze on the level of talent that B12 schools get. Not only will TX/OU feast on the top guys in state, but A&M will also be right there getting their share of dudes, and LSU, Arkansas, Bama, Georgia, and a few others will also be making pushes into the state now that they will be seen on primetime TV every week.

That essentially means that the level of talent left over for the likes of TCU, Tech, Ok State, etc is going to continue to fall. Whereas TCU could get an occasional highly ranked 4 star or even a 5 star under the right circumstances, they will be fishing in the low four star and three star pool from now on. It would not surprise me to see BYU rise to power since they have a niche pipeline of high quality talent and access to the west coast regions with far less competition there.  

[Crockett 490]

31 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

Texas and OU going to the SEC is going to put a squeeze on the level of talent that B12 schools get. Not only will TX/OU feast on the top guys in state, but A&M will also be right there getting their share of dudes, and LSU, Arkansas, Bama, Georgia, and a few others will also be making pushes into the state now that they will be seen on primetime TV every week.

Other than Tier 2 schools losing developed talent to Tier 1 schools via the portal, I'm not convinced that much will change in terms of talent going to the top programs. Don't think high school recruiting will dramatically change. Texas and OU and the SEC got the best recruits, generally, before and they will continue to do so. The haves still gonna have.

31 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

It would not surprise me to see BYU rise to power since they have a niche pipeline of high quality talent and access to the west coast regions with far less competition there.  

You are wise. With that niche pipeline, west coast talent access (especially if the P12 withers), better access to the playoff and better bowls, more money, playing for conference titles (not out of the CFB picture after the first loss in the season), etc., we should be able to expand our recruiting net and do better. Might make some noise in the B12. Probably take some time, though. Bout to find out. 

[FartingDreamer 138]

1 hour ago, Frank Drebin said:

The Big 12 got a decent TV deal basically as a payout to the left behind schools so Texas and OU could leave without litigation.  Next time they are up for a tv deal, they won't be getting that bump.  The disparity will only increase

Depends on how competitive the conference turns out to be.  If it is competitive, it will draw the ratings needed for a bump.  And I doubt there will be this great disparity that will occur.  When the novelty of playing in the SEC wears off, recruits will want to weight playing time vs sitting on the bench and things will generally slant towards evening out.  

['stache 21802]

1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

The B12 mouthpieces are convinced that their next TV deal is going to be around $45-50 million per school. But to get that, they are going to have to have a level of sustained success over the next few years and I am just not convinced that is going to happen. Texas and OU going to the SEC is going to put a squeeze on the level of talent that B12 schools get. Not only will TX/OU feast on the top guys in state, but A&M will also be right there getting their share of dudes, and LSU, Arkansas, Bama, Georgia, and a few others will also be making pushes into the state now that they will be seen on primetime TV every week.

That essentially means that the level of talent left over for the likes of TCU, Tech, Ok State, etc is going to continue to fall. Whereas TCU could get an occasional highly ranked 4 star or even a 5 star under the right circumstances, they will be fishing in the low four star and three star pool from now on. It would not surprise me to see BYU rise to power since they have a niche pipeline of high quality talent and access to the west coast regions with far less competition there.  

That's literally the status quo now. OSU, etc., thrive off developing mostly three star talent, with a few four and five stars here and there. Our last two five star players were complete busts, so I honestly don't care that much about it anymore. The biggest difference will be the loss of ratings when we play OU and Texas, which the media deal accounts for, otherwise, ratings will be strong enough, and one of the teams will be good enough most years to be competitive and even possibly make a playoff run ala TCU last year.

[LTtxfan 49170]

9 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I’m not claiming a deep learned knowledge... The area between Dallas and Austin has always surprised me at how Midwestern it looked.  It’s the cornfields and grain elevator skylines on the small towns.

 

2 hours ago, BachelorTrek said:

Those things are also found between Austin and Houston.

Texas is a melting pot of several different regions coming together...

How Many Regions Are There in Texas?

Generally, there are seven main natural regions in Texas:

• Hill Country
• Gulf Coast
• Panhandle
• Big Bend Country
• Piney Woods
• South Texas Plains
• Prairies and Lakes

 

https://texasview.org/regions-in-texas/

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

2 hours ago, BachelorTrek said:

Those things are also found between Austin and Houston.

Never made that drive, but I don't doubt it.

The drive I made to Houston was from Dallas, and I remember that being a whole lot of thick ass piney woods and swamps.

[Magus Ossis 2798]

A useful proxy might be average non-Texas and non-aggy UH and Rice football audience numbers in the SWC and post-SWC. I know the TV landscape has changed quite a bit, but it might help illuminate the degree to which the audience reflects interest in a league that includes Texas. It would take some work to control for network and time slot. I have trouble believing that Toledo’s playing ULL in a close game with CCG implications that goes down to the wire Saturday on ABC at 7p Central will be a big draw. There is in my opinion a minimum program relevance factor for people to watch sports on TV in big numbers, even if the other usual variables look favorable. Being in a league or otherwise being even moderately associated with brand names helps lend that relevance. That relevance problem to a degree may well start significantly to affect future B12 games and hence the next contract, even past the loss of the sweeteners put in to help grease the skids on our exit.

 

TLDR I agree the next B12 contract is likely to fall further behind the P2.

[Frank Drebin 5663]

1 hour ago, FartingDreamer said:

Depends on how competitive the conference turns out to be.  If it is competitive, it will draw the ratings needed for a bump.  And I doubt there will be this great disparity that will occur.  When the novelty of playing in the SEC wears off, recruits will want to weight playing time vs sitting on the bench and things will generally slant towards evening out.  

If they want playing time, they can get it at bottom half SEC programs.  I don’t see the Big 12 teams getting much in their next tv deal.   Maybe I’m wrong.  I’m not rooting against the Big 12.  I’m just not sure many Texans who are college football fans are going to be tuning in to see former conference mates. 

[tejas60 3533]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Never made that drive, but I don't doubt it.

The drive I made to Houston was from Dallas, and I remember that being a whole lot of thick ass piney woods and swamps.

you got the piney woods part right, but swamps between Dallas and Houston???

[Grande Mart 511]

Cultural and physical geography talk not going away

 

Dallas is a woman who will walk on you when you're down, but when you are up, she's the kind you want to take around

[Hank_Hill 18803]

Dallas sucks no matter your place in life. 

[tejas60 3533]

25 minutes ago, Grande Mart said:

Cultural and physical geography talk not going away

 

Dallas is a woman who will walk on you when you're down, but when you are up, she's the kind you want to take around

yeah, but have you ever seen dallas from a dc-9 at night?

[Satchel 6938]

It looks like there will 3 conferences whose members will be able to fund the ongoing, never ending facility upgrades. There are only so  much bling you can cram into a building.

[BachelorTrek 2967]

8 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Texas is a melting pot of several different regions coming together...

How Many Regions Are There in Texas?

Generally, there are seven main natural regions in Texas:

• Hill Country
• Gulf Coast
• Panhandle
• Big Bend Country
• Piney Woods
• South Texas Plains
• Prairies and Lakes

 

https://texasview.org/regions-in-texas/

 

Your map omits the "Post Oak Belt".

[Grande Mart 511]

3 hours ago, tejas60 said:

yeah, but have you ever seen dallas from a dc-9 at night?

Dallas is a rich man with a death wish in his eye

[Satchel 6938]

Dallas at night from a 737:

 

[DalTxHornFan 3101]

Obligatory:

 

[Zepol87 9185]

Dallas is the shit fuck y’all 

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

8 hours ago, tejas60 said:

you got the piney woods part right, but swamps between Dallas and Houston???

Just NW of Houston seemed swampy 

[closetohumping 17439]

18 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

Depends on how competitive the conference turns out to be.  If it is competitive, it will draw the ratings needed for a bump.  And I doubt there will be this great disparity that will occur.  When the novelty of playing in the SEC wears off, recruits will want to weight playing time vs sitting on the bench and things will generally slant towards evening out.  

Novelty?  Nah it’s a thing.  You have a much better chance of making the nfl if you play in the sec

[Had Enough 2081]

Novelty?  Nah it’s a thing.  You have a much better chance of making the nfl if you play in the sec

It’s no novelty. But your best chance at the NFL is playing time. Lots of quality playing time. And with the portal and NIL, transferring to the SEC from any conference is easier. It’ll be interesting to see how trading up in college football goes.

[billfromlaketravis 11458]

Northwestern won 1 game last year and had 4 players drafted. Dismissing the conference thing is unwise. 

Yes if you're good enough, the NFL will find you, but the same scouts value strength of competition. 

[Dirk X West 772]

9 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Obligatory:

 

Some proud sons of the Panhandle Plains there

[camel at sea 589]

On 7/21/2023 at 12:52 PM, Frank Drebin said:

The Big 12 got a decent TV deal basically as a payout to the left behind schools so Texas and OU could leave without litigation.  Next time they are up for a tv deal, they won't be getting that bump.  The disparity will only increase

The Big 12 might have received a small bump for letting UT/OU leave a year early, but it wasn't much of a bump.  The concessions were probably more along the lines of marketing and exposure than payout.  

The new Big 12 deal's per-team payout is $31M+ per (before NCAA and CFP money bumps that up close to around $50M per).  If you assume that everyone got an extra $2M per for letting UT/OU go, that adds up to $24M per year x the 6 years of the contract.  That's a LOT of money to get the Longhorns and Sooners in the SEC one year early when waiting was an option.  But even if you assume that's true, it still means the Big 12 was *actually* worth just shy of $30M per before NCAA tourney and CFP money get factored in.  At that number, they'd still have a good deal and be ahead of the PAC and ACC.      

[billfromlaketravis 11458]

On 7/21/2023 at 4:12 PM, Frank Drebin said:

If they want playing time, they can get it at bottom half SEC programs.  I don’t see the Big 12 teams getting much in their next tv deal.   Maybe I’m wrong.  I’m not rooting against the Big 12.  I’m just not sure many Texans who are college football fans are going to be tuning in to see former conference mates. 

Yeah Paul Waddington is convinced the Big 12 will get less money on their next deal, and ESPN paid a little extra to get Texas and OU out early. 
 

Reading the tea leaves, maybe on the ESPN inducement. Every projection was in the low 20s and they landed the plane at 31. Also the Irate8 shut the f*** up after the deal was announced. 
 

I think the conference will get a small bump in 2032. I don’t think the conference’s future will be as rosy as some in this thread think it will be. That said live sports is the one of the few platforms to sell ads. 
 

Everybody’s streaming business is in really trouble with the exception of Netflix. Disney especially. Their checkbook is closed until ESPN is spun off or sold. The Mouse has to buy Comcast out of Hulu next year.‘it’ll cost billions.