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Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

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Uncle Nate

Uncle Nate 2097

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Deej said:

The remaining Big 12 teams, in general, are averse to scheduling decent OOC games. I doubt very many of them want to start their season 0-1 by starting conference play in the first week. 

I disagree completely with that premise.  This year alone:

Tech vs. Oregon (with a return trip next year)

Baylor vs. Utah

WVU vs. Penn St. and Pitt

TCU vs. Colorado 

Okie St. vs. Ariz St.

ISU vs. Iowa

Kansas vs. Illinois

 

 

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Sbbruin
Sbbruin

Yeah, undefeated every year no doubt.  

The Hot Dog Buffet
The Hot Dog Buffet

Colorado BuffaLowes Kansas State Wild Wings Kansas JayKochs (at least until Koch gets tired of hearing Jaycocks) Oklahoma State Stetson Cowboys Iowa State Pioneer Seed Clones

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closetojumping

It's a large Texas forum. Every thread will largely be dominated by Texas posters. This is news? Not only that, it's funny in some form? My view is that the Big 12 will be fine as the 4th of 4 la

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'stache

'stache 21818

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

I disagree completely with that premise.  This year alone:

Tech vs. Oregon (with a return trip next year)

Baylor vs. Utah

WVU vs. Penn St. and Pitt

TCU vs. Colorado 

Okie St. vs. Ariz St.

ISU vs. Iowa

Kansas vs. Illinois

 

 

OKST has Alabama, Oregon, Arkansas, and Nebraska scheduled for future non-con home and homes. And despite all the chatter, I've said before I'll bet a years salary that Bedlam gets played as a home and home in 2030-31, or sometime later in the 2030s (we had Colorado scheduled as a non-con in 2036-37 which will likely be cancelled with them rejoining the conference).  

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12464

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Deej said:

The remaining Big 12 teams, in general, are averse to scheduling decent OOC games. I doubt very many of them want to start their season 0-1 by starting conference play in the first week. 

That's a repeated trope on this board, but in general it only applies to Baylor.

And you'd still have 3 OOC games.

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The Hot Dog Buffet

The Hot Dog Buffet 1291

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Uncle Nate said:

I disagree completely with that premise.  This year alone:

Tech vs. Oregon (with a return trip next year)

Baylor vs. Utah

WVU vs. Penn St. and Pitt

TCU vs. Colorado 

Okie St. vs. Ariz St.

ISU vs. Iowa

Kansas vs. Illinois

 

 

Kansas State vs. Missouri

Cincinnati vs. Pitt

BYU vs. Arkansas

Houston and UCF need to do better, but it's also their first year. At least UCF is playing Boise.

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Deej

Deej 76818

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's a repeated trope on this board, but in general it only applies to Baylor.

And you'd still have 3 OOC games.

Nobody wants anything but an opening win. 0-1 after week one, no matter who you play, is not where you want to start in the polls, particularly when voters will hold it against you for being a Big 12 team. 

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12464

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Deej said:

Nobody wants anything but an opening win. 0-1 after week one, no matter who you play, is not where you want to start in the polls, particularly when voters will hold it against you for being a Big 12 team. 

And half of the Big 12 opens with a conference win.  I don't see this being an issue.  Getting that increased exposure outweighs seeing "1-0" on the record for everyone.  And any more, a lot of the OOC P5 games the Big 12 is playing are being played opening week.

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Frank Drebin

Frank Drebin 5643

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

And half of the Big 12 opens with a conference win.  I don't see this being an issue.  Getting that increased exposure outweighs seeing "1-0" on the record for everyone.  And any more, a lot of the OOC P5 games the Big 12 is playing are being played opening week.

Yep.  Game is going to be played regardless.  Probably better to lose early on the resume anyway.

Conferences would be smart to have conference matchups every week.  Better for tv and fans.  Better exposure.  A conference game in weeks 0 and 1 will get a great tv slot regardless of who is playing.

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The Hot Dog Buffet

The Hot Dog Buffet 1291

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Frank Drebin said:

Yep.  Game is going to be played regardless.  Probably better to lose early on the resume anyway.

Conferences would be smart to have conference matchups every week.  Better for tv and fans.  Better exposure.  A conference game in weeks 0 and 1 will get a great tv slot regardless of who is playing.

Yeah, and then have a late season tune-up/rest game against an FCS program like the SEC does.

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Samson's Wig

Samson's Wig 3192

Posted
Posted

Slamming any conference for scheduling is a weird thing to do for any fan of an SEC school.  The SEC is notorious for playing non-con schools that don't actually exist to pad their win column, and it's been the most top-heavy conference outside of the ACC for at least twenty years so it's not like they have a tough row to hoe all season.  Follow all that with its insistence on picking the bowl matchups when no other conference does, and there isn't a more candy corn/powder puff conference in existence when it comes to working schedules to pad numbers.  It's smart and helped build the mythology that eventually became a reality in terms of the SEC, but it's some seriously candy-assed bullshit and leaves no one with a leg to stand on if we're going to be pointing fingers about scheduling.

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'stache

'stache 21818

Posted
Posted (edited)

OSU has been thought of as having weak non-cons, but part of it goes back to the days when 6 wins wasn't a given, and Gundy still seems to like at least one FCS warmup game. But looking back, we've still almost always had a P5 noncon. Not always the crème of the crop, but P5 nonetheless.

2002; 2004-UCLA

2007; 2009 - Georgia

2008; 2010 - Washington State

2011; 2012 - Arizona

2013 - Mississippi State (@ Texans stadium)

2014 - Florida State (@Jerryworld vs. Jameis as defending National Champs)

2016; 2017 - Pitt

2018; 2021 - Boise State (the Big XII allowed BSU as part of its one P5 opponent rule)

2019 - Oregon State

2022 - Arizona State

 

 

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Vertigo

Vertigo 20290

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

OSU has been thought of as having weak non-cons, but part of it goes back to the days when 6 wins wasn't a given, and Gundy still seems to like at least one FCS warmup game. But looking back, we've still almost always had a P5 noncon. Not always the crème of the crop, but P5 nonetheless.

2002; 2004-UCLA

2007; 2009 - Georgia

2008; 2010 - Washington State

2011; 2012 - Arizona

2013 - Mississippi State (@ Texans stadium)

2014 - Florida State (@Jerryworld vs. Jameis as defending National Champs)

2016; 2017 - Pitt

2018; 2021 - Boise State (the Big XII allowed BSU as part of its one P5 opponent rule)

2019 - Oregon State

2022 - Arizona State

 

 

Now do K-State

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10958

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's a repeated trope on this board, but in general it only applies to Baylor.

And you'd still have 3 OOC games.

Baylor's has

2023: Utah

2024: @ Utah

2025: Auburn

2026: @ Auburn

2027: Oregon & @ Air Force

2028: @ Oregon

 

I don't think we need it any tougher than that.

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Deej

Deej 76818

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

Yep.  Game is going to be played regardless.  Probably better to lose early on the resume anyway.

Conferences would be smart to have conference matchups every week.  Better for tv and fans.  Better exposure.  A conference game in weeks 0 and 1 will get a great tv slot regardless of who is playing.

Big 12 ain't getting the respect for an early loss like the SEC or Big 10. Moose out front should have told you. 

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Had Enough said:

If you want more eyes on your games, conference games starting the season is a good thought.

It doesn’t create more losses. Pretty even playing field.

Big 12 ought to do it.

Yeah I mean SECSECSEC has been doing this now for, what, 20+ years?

It's one of the key factors that led to the perception of it being the greatest conference in the land.

I mean, when preseason unranked Mississippi State beats preseason #8 Tennessee -- WOW! Look how good SEC is! An unranked team beat the #8 team in the country! Now in week 2 Mississippi State comes in at #12 or so but then after a few weeks of awful non-conference teams they are ranked #8 but they lose to unranked Arkansas and WOW! Yet again it's proven how tough SECSECSEC is because these unranked SEC teams are beating top 10 SEC teams!!  So basically every talking head can blather on for the first two months of the season how great SECSECSEC it.

Fast-forward 10 weeks and both Mississippi State and Tennessee are 5-7 and unranked but who cares?

We'll do it all over again next year and it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy because all of the talking heads will just talk over and over and over again how great SEC is so now that's where all of the elite prospects want to go. Huzzah!

(Yes I'm fully aware that SEC has become objectively the best conference overall, but for many many years it wasn't - but there was the often-repeated perception that was absolutely bolstered and reinforced by them playing conference games in September that reinforced narratives even though those narratives ended up being B.S. a lot of the time.)

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redswingline

redswingline 1057

Posted
Posted

 

7 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

(Yes I'm fully aware that SEC has become objectively the best conference overall, but for many many years it wasn't - but there was the often-repeated perception that was absolutely bolstered and reinforced by them playing conference games in September that reinforced narratives even though those narratives ended up being B.S. a lot of the time.)

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

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Welshy

Welshy 907

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, 'stache said:

The ASU-Tech game should be called the Clap Classic.

Claptastic?

5 hours ago, Hank_Hill said:

Is Ames still doomed to experience a crumbling economy  because Texas won’t be coming to town once every other year?

Yes. You will never have an almost sell-out again. 

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3446

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/3/2023 at 3:53 PM, 'stache said:

OSU has been thought of as having weak non-cons, but part of it goes back to the days when 6 wins wasn't a given, and Gundy still seems to like at least one FCS warmup game. But looking back, we've still almost always had a P5 noncon. Not always the crème of the crop, but P5 nonetheless.

2002; 2004-UCLA

2007; 2009 - Georgia

2008; 2010 - Washington State

2011; 2012 - Arizona

2013 - Mississippi State (@ Texans stadium)

2014 - Florida State (@Jerryworld vs. Jameis as defending National Champs)

2016; 2017 - Pitt

2018; 2021 - Boise State (the Big XII allowed BSU as part of its one P5 opponent rule)

2019 - Oregon State

2022 - Arizona State

 

 

That 2009 Georgia game was the first time I realized how much brand management work ESPN was set on doing for the SEC. Oklahoma St beat Georgia by 2 touchdowns yet the entire game all I heard was how Oklahoma St was playing SEC defense and demonstrating SEC speed in route to beating the breaks off an SEC team.  Back then the difference in talent between conferences wasn't that vast,  but every 13 year old watching games on ESPN got drummed into their heads how the SEC was the best and had the best of everything even though only 2 schools in the conference at the time deserved that level of intrigue. Now after 15 years of kids hearing that nonsense Kentucky routinely sends first rounders to the NFL. 

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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Welshy

Welshy 907

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

That 2009 Georgia game was the first time I realized how much brand management work ESPN was set on doing for the SEC. Oklahoma St beat Georgia by 2 touchdowns yet the entire game all I heard was how Oklahoma St was playing SEC defense and demonstrating SEC speed in route to beating the breaks off an SEC team.  Back then the difference in talent between conferences wasn't that vast,  but every 13 year old watching games on ESPN got drummed into their heads how the SEC was the best and had the best of everything even though only 2 schools in the conference at the time deserved that level of intrigue. Now after 15 years of kids hearing that nonsense Kentucky routinely sends first rounders to the NFL. 

Yes. And there are still only two schools at the top. Like the former big12 (despite UT or OU being at the top for several years). Or The BIG with OHSt. and Michigan. Or the former PAC with UU and UO and once upon a time, USC. 

 

None of this is about Equity or "Leveling the Field." It's about viewers. Evidenced completely by Ut's value vs its results on the field. No one cares if you are good. They care if people watch. 

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12464

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

That 2009 Georgia game was the first time I realized how much brand management work ESPN was set on doing for the SEC. Oklahoma St beat Georgia by 2 touchdowns yet the entire game all I heard was how Oklahoma St was playing SEC defense and demonstrating SEC speed in route to beating the breaks off an SEC team.  Back then the difference in talent between conferences wasn't that vast,  but every 13 year old watching games on ESPN got drummed into their heads how the SEC was the best and had the best of everything even though only 2 schools in the conference at the time deserved that level of intrigue. Now after 15 years of kids hearing that nonsense Kentucky routinely sends first rounders to the NFL. 

This is precisely what I’m referring to when I said ESPN negged UT and OU out of the Big 12.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Tech invented STDs.

No argument.  I got the joke.  Also stands if Tech has it, Okie Lite wants it too. Thus, my retort.

It’s ok to laugh, for crisakes. 

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Hank_Hill

Hank_Hill 18868

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:


No
847789003007876929f10842e90a223e.jpg
No
847789003007876929f10842e90a223e.jpg

Right. This was in reference to an ISU fan (maybe you?) in the beginning of all this crying that Texas and OU causing the potential dissolving of the Big 12 would put Ames small businesses at risk and destroy the town as we know it.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12464

Posted
Posted
Right. This was in reference to an ISU fan (maybe you?) in the beginning of all this crying that Texas and OU causing the potential dissolving of the Big 12 would put Ames small businesses at risk and destroy the town as we know it.

Some kind of true relegation would have that effect. UT and OU aren’t bigger draws at Jack Trice than anyone else. ISU’s attendance is more linked to weather and team performance than opponent.

At this point I think it’s arguable that UT and OU did the rest of the Big 12 a favor, and even if they didn’t, they aren’t the ones driving the car here. TV execs are.
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The Hot Dog Buffet

The Hot Dog Buffet 1291

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:


Some kind of true relegation would have that effect. UT and OU aren’t bigger draws at Jack Trice than anyone else. ISU’s attendance is more linked to weather and team performance than opponent.

At this point I think it’s arguable that UT and OU did the rest of the Big 12 a favor, and even if they didn’t, they aren’t the ones driving the car here. TV execs are.

It's not at all arguable that OU and UT are doing anyone a favor by leaving. It's probably true that Nebraska and A&M did everyone a favor, though. The have nots have used equal revenue sharing to make big strides with facilities, and it really shows when you look at competitiveness on the field.

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