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Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

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Yeah, undefeated every year no doubt.  

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It's a large Texas forum. Every thread will largely be dominated by Texas posters. This is news? Not only that, it's funny in some form? My view is that the Big 12 will be fine as the 4th of 4 la

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royiv

royiv 9429

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Haha I'm good, actually but thanks.  Going to be out of town Saturday.  But good luck getting 45k to that shitshow, Yormark you fucking choad

 

 

 

 

Screenshot_20241202-111628_Yahoo Mail.jpg

Jerry World is too big of a stadium for that game moving forward. Putting it on campus makes a lot more sense and gives teams an extra incentive to be the #1 team in the conference standings, but that won’t happen because TV rules the world now.

Edited by royiv
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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12549

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Malzahn leaving UCF was like when Greg McDermott left ISU for Creighton when they were still in the MVC.  It wasn't working, everyone knew it, and he was getting out before anyone else had to make an uncomfortable decision.

In no world is this a referendum on the UCF HC job vs the FSU OC job.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12549

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15 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't know much about ASU's fanbase but you can be damn sure the Cyclone fans will be driving to Dallas in droves. I can't imagine the stadium won't be full. If not technically a sellout it's gonna be close.

I'm flying in early Saturday AM (have an obligation I can't skip Friday night) and that flight went from $150 on Saturday afternoon to $400 when BYU's score went final (which is when I booked lest I jinxed it).  And that's out of Minneapolis.  I can't imagine what it is out of Des Moines, or the caravan that will be headed down I-35.

Plane leaves Minneapolis at 6AM, and you're got damn right I'm going to be drinking the little traveler bottles.

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Dennis Taylor

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1 hour ago, royiv said:

Jerry World is too big of a stadium for that game moving forward. Putting it on campus makes a lot more sense and gives teams an extra incentive to be the #1 team in the conference standings, but that won’t happen because TV rules the world now.

I thought you were going to say play it in The Star in Frisco 

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royiv

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34 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't know much about ASU's fanbase but you can be damn sure the Cyclone fans will be driving to Dallas in droves. I can't imagine the stadium won't be full. If not technically a sellout it's gonna be close.

I love me some Big 12 football, but I’m not seeing it for this game. I don’t think ASU is going to travel well. ASU has an enrollment of 145k, with half being online, and struggles to fill their own stadium of 50k-ish seats. It’s a diploma mill that doesn’t lend itself to big time support of their athletic programs. ISU, on the other hand, I think will have a huge crowd advantage, but that doesn’t negate the fact that Jerry World is nearly twice the size of Jack Trice. The Cylclone faithful can’t fill Jerry World on their own.

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12549

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We'll bring 35-40K would be my guess.  If ASU matched us (they won't) and you pick up 20K randos (I think that's normal for CCGs) you'd be close to full.

I expect it to be about 75% full.  I think you'd need both participants to be within a 10-12 hour drive to realistically sell it out.  Arrowhead would make more sense from a capacity standpoint, but less sense from a weather stand point.

Edited by Al_4_ISU
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RoyalBevo21

RoyalBevo21 830

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22 hours ago, 'stache said:

I don't know much about ASU's fanbase but you can be damn sure the Cyclone fans will be driving to Dallas in droves. I can't imagine the stadium won't be full. If not technically a sellout it's gonna be close.

Tickets have already dropped from $133 to $74. I guarantee you, day of you can find tickets in the $30s.

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'stache

'stache 21928

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26 minutes ago, RoyalBevo21 said:

Tickets have already dropped from $133 to $74. I guarantee you, day of you can find tickets in the $30s.

Big 10 tickets are going for $15 right now, maybe because Oregon is so far away (fucking realignment). ACC tickets are going for $50. SEC tickets are close to $200, not unexpected considering UGA is down the road and UT is in its first champ game for the conference.

The Big XII game might not officially sellout but it will be filled enough that you won’t see empty seats unless maybe if they show the Jumbotron viewing seats at the upper levels of that stupid fucking stadium.

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mdmost

mdmost 43332

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43 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

confused-math.gif

 

What is the point he is actually trying to make here? That the B12 should be one of the 4 byes? What a buffoon. 

That the Big 12 Champion shouldn't be behind Boise. He's not wrong. I also think if Clemson upsets SMU that both the Big 12 and Boise should be above them. An on the playoff cusp team already knocked off Clemson in South Carolina. 

All that said, I guess we're all still waiting for the Big 12 to run through Lubbock. Did ASU or Iowa State do that?

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RoyalBevo21

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18 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Big 10 tickets are going for $15 right now, maybe because Oregon is so far away (fucking realignment). ACC tickets are going for $50. SEC tickets are close to $200, not unexpected considering UGA is down the road and UT is in its first champ game for the conference.

The Big XII game might not officially sellout but it will be filled enough that you won’t see empty seats unless maybe if they show the Jumbotron viewing seats at the upper levels of that stupid fucking stadium.

It’s Buckeyes dumping tickets.

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TKthunder2

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5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

There’s plenty of extra money from the expanded playoff. Conference championship games just don’t feel the same anymore. I’d be fine with just using the regular season records and tiebreakers to award the trophy. The uneven schedules are already a problem so who cares.

I agree with this but that would lose money for the conferences and TV partners. An easy solution is to decouple home playoff game from the playoff TV contracts and roll those into the conferences normal TV deal. SEC home games on ABC, B1G on FOX/CBS.NBC, B12 on ABC/FOX, ACC on ABC…

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12549

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The massive conferences/realignment have given us what appears to be a slate of compelling and even matchups across the board.  I heard yesterday that every CCG is a 4.5 point or less spread.  When you don't play every one in the league, the game is an entertaining way to determine a winner.  I guess it was an entertaining way to determine a winner when everyone DID play each other, it was just utterly pointless.

It's sports.  Sports are fun.  Why have less?  The amount of "meaning" a game has is ultimately a somewhat arbitrary decision that we as fans collectively arrive upon.  Bowl games have ALWAYS been exhibition games that don't really matter in the context of determining who the best of anything is.  They didn't just become meaningless - they never really meant anything.  Talking heads have been crying about meaningless bowls for 20 years and then one day players woke up and agreed.  As soon as that happened, fans followed suit.  I doesn't mean I'm not entertained by watching a bunch of backups try and kill each other in Mobile at 4:30 PM Central on a Tuesday.

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royiv

royiv 9429

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1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

az is full of cowboy fans 

As someone who had Cardinals season tickets for more than a decade, I can testify that the Cowboys fans in AZ aren’t exactly the types to travel for a college football game. 

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Upgrayedd

Upgrayedd 5829

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1 hour ago, royiv said:

As someone who had Cardinals season tickets for more than a decade, I can testify that the Cowboys fans in AZ aren’t exactly the types to travel for a college football game. 

They travel when it involves extradition.

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statsman

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https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article296175184.html

Quote

SMU’s first season as a power football program is not a disaster for “friend” TCU, but it is a cross-town salvo that should rattle the frog pads all over Fort Worth.

Under third-year coach Sonny Dykes, TCU will finish with a respectable record and positive momentum for 2025, but this year they were buried by SMU.

SMU will play for the ACC title with a chance to make the college football invitational. Cash can’t buy the Ponies a national title, but it puts them in a conversation TCU is familiar with since the “playoff” was created in 2014.

SMU (10-1) ended its regular season at home on Saturday against California, and next week will play for the ACC title. SMU is currently ninth in the latest playoff rankings, and would be in the 12-team postseason bracket.

TCU of the BIg 12 and SMU of the ACC are in the same spot, in leagues begging to be taken seriously as they lobby against linear television’s modern prometheus, TheBigSEC10.

Outsiders may think that SMU’s rise to its current spot is a result of an overnight cash drop, when in reality this process was a decades long investment with the hope of return it currently enjoys. This includes the construction of a football stadium that, unintentionally, is the venue that is now perfect for this generation.

A stadium that is tailored for its school, with a capacity that would be ideal for TCU whose own venue now is a bit too big.

How SMU built its ‘packed house’

Justifiably missed in SMU’s near flawless season is that while every game “is a sellout” there are more than a few times when those crowd shots show otherwise. With limited exception, these scenes litter college sports.

When planners designed Gerald J. Ford Stadium, it was done with the idea that it could expand to 45,000. The 32,000-seat venue opened in 2000, long before the internet, smart phones and streaming remade entertainment, and reduced our attention spans to seconds.

Even in the ACC, SMU has no need to follow its expansion possibility. All of the new stadiums designed, and built, today are for smaller crowds. SMU’s home is quaint, allows for fans to be close, and “on top” of the games. It creates for a packed visual that plays well on TV, and creates at least some demand for a ticket.

SMU planners may take credit for their vision, but they had no idea how the internet was going to change the world, and alter sports. What matters is that it works.

TCU’s stadium “challenge”

The NCAA’s attendance report says TCU averages about 8,000 fans more per home game than SMU, but the issue is how it looks.

When TCU defeated Arizona in its regular-season home finale on Nov. 23, the number of empty seats at Amon G. Carter Stadium was alarming. Some of it will be blamed on the fact that TCU’s Thanksgiving break began the day before, but it was a bad photo op.

The announced crowd of 42,977 was not the visual of a packed, crazy college atmosphere that is the desire of administrators, coaches trying to win recruits, and broadcast partners.

TCU’s announced average home attendance this season is 44,605, which is as accurate as your local 10-day weather forecast. These bloated figures follow the standard reporting practices of colleges that use fuzzy math for its home attendance. 

For a school the size of TCU, it draws pretty well even if the numbers aren’t entirely accurate. 

This trend for TCU started long before that game against Arizona. It was noticeable when TCU hosted future Heisman Trophy winner Kyler Murray and No. 9 Oklahoma in a Big 12 game on Oct. 20, 2018. The box score read a crowd of 45,055, but the eyeballs said that was about 8,000 to 10,000 too high.

It was a bright yellow warning sign of the challenges ahead when TCU could not fill the place up for a good Oklahoma team.

For this era of in-person sports entertainment, TCU’s stadium is big for a private school with an undergraduate enrollment of 11,049. The venue is a gem, but with a capacity of 47,000 it’s roughly 7,000 seats too many for this generation.

When TCU contemplated to re-do its football stadium, in 2010, there were discussions to potentially go to a capacity 70,000. At the time, TCU was in the midst of a run where the football team was going to the Fiesta Bowl and Rose Bowl, and had dreams of joining the Big 12 where it hosted both Texas and OU. Smarter, and cooler, heads prevailed to keep the capacity down.

In TCU’s 2022 season, when it went to the national title game, crowds were good but not once was the home stadium full, despite what the attendance reports said. That included home games against Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Texas Tech.

The team was great. The stadium was great. The games were exciting. This all illustrates the challenges for schools the size of a TCU to draw people away from their living rooms, and their phones, to watch games in person.

In this era, event organizers have learned fans want a premium, or “club” seats, akin to a first class or business class airline ticket. If those are unavailable, they want to watch the game from their couch, a sports bar, or a tailgate. 

The exception is if the game is Godzilla vs. King Kong, which is one of the reasons why the SEC and Big 10’s respective expansions have little to do with results and everything to do about “power” matchups. 

Where do and SMU and TCU ‘rank?’

Schools such as TCU don’t use big state universities as comps as much as they do those that fit their description: Private in major metro areas that play in the NCAA’s power conferences; Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Stanford, and now SMU.

When Stanford demolished its 85,000 football stadium after the 2004 season, the Stanford Magazine wrote, “What was once a source of pride — an arena large enough to attract a Super Bowl (as it did in 1985) — has become a liability, if not an embarrassment.

“As football crowds dwindled over the past two decades, athletics officials took measures to disguise the vast expanse of empty seats, installing a large tarp over entire sections. Last season, attendance at home games averaged about 36,000 and no game drew more than 40,000.”

That was published in July of 2005. Reduce the attendance figures mentioned above by about 10,000 or so and not much has changed here in 2024.

Below are the schools like TCU in the power conferences, with their undergraduate enrollment figures and home football stadium seating capacities.

USC: L.A. Memorial Coliseum, 77,500. Undergrad enrollment, 21,000.

University of Miami: Hard Rock Stadium, 65,326. Undergrad enrollment, 12,883

(Miami and USC’s respective home venues are, or were, home to NFL teams. Miami’s home stadium is 21 miles from its campus.)

Stanford: Stanford Stadium, 50,424. Undergrad enrollment, 8,054

TCU: Amon G. Carter Stadium, 47,000. Undergrad enrollment, 11,049

Boston College: Alumni Stadium, 44,500.Undergrad enrollment, 9,575

Vanderbilt: FirstBank Stadium, 41,000. Undergrad enrollment, 7,152

Northwestern: Ryan Field, 35,000*. Undergrad enrollment, 8,846 (* Ryan Field is slated to open in 2026)

SMU: Gerald J. Ford Stadium, 32,000. Undergrad enrollment, 7,285

Of the schools that are “alike” in the power conferences, SMU embraced “quaint” long before it was the industry trend. For most of Ford Stadium’s first 20 years, it was far too big whereas now, with the Ponies both in a power league and winning, it looks perfect.

So what does all of this mean for the SMUs and TCUs of the current college football landscape? Recognize that there are conference titles to be won and national playoff berths to be captured. 

But also realize that a bulk of your fanbase will watch the games in front of their ‘75-inch wide screens on their LazyBoy recliners in their mancaves.

 

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Crockett

Crockett 504

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On 12/2/2024 at 12:18 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm flying in early Saturday AM (have an obligation I can't skip Friday night) and that flight went from $150 on Saturday afternoon to $400 when BYU's score went final (which is when I booked lest I jinxed it).  And that's out of Minneapolis.  I can't imagine what it is out of Des Moines, or the caravan that will be headed down I-35.

Plane leaves Minneapolis at 6AM, and you're got damn right I'm going to be drinking the little traveler bottles.

You did it the right way. I booked my flight (refundable) before the Kansas game. I fear I may have jinxed it for us. 

BTW, BYU would have packed that stadium. Tons of BYU fans in DFW. Lots that would have travelled. 

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Crockett

Crockett 504

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22 hours ago, 'stache said:

There’s plenty of extra money from the expanded playoff. Conference championship games just don’t feel the same anymore. I’d be fine with just using the regular season records and tiebreakers to award the trophy. The uneven schedules are already a problem so who cares.

The Big 12 ended up with 4 teams tied at the top of the conference standings. And since it looks like only one B12 team is going to get a playoff shot, I'd rather it be settled on the field who gets to go. 

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dec3169

dec3169 525

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On 12/2/2024 at 1:05 PM, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I think the Malzahn hire is a good get for FSU. I think it's a win for both parties. Malzahn can be a great OC without having to worry about the rest of things as a HC. 

How long will it take for a John Deere to make the trip?

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dec3169

dec3169 525

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Posted (edited)
On 12/2/2024 at 1:47 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

We'll bring 35-40K would be my guess.  If ASU matched us (they won't) and you pick up 20K randos (I think that's normal for CCGs) you'd be close to full.

I expect it to be about 75% full.  I think you'd need both participants to be within a 10-12 hour drive to realistically sell it out.  Arrowhead would make more sense from a capacity standpoint, but less sense from a weather stand point.

How long will it take for a John Deere to make the trip?

8 minutes ago, dec3169 said:

How long will it take for a John Deere to make the trip?

duplicate

Edited by dec3169
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