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Posted
Surprised SMU is behind TCU and teams like Arkansas. Very very surpised that ASU is down at 49. I really hope they get it going, I like Dillingham.

Smu typically picks up a few really good homesick players each year, or ones buried in the depth chart at blueblood schools that are from there. They have a good thing going.
Posted

Meh, once you get past the first 10-15 teams in those rankings I’ve never thought it matters that much. They get all the 4 and 5 star athletes who can produce right away and create depth, that’s why they usually win more. After that, the difference between 20 and 50 is a crap shoot. It’s mostly 3 stars some of whom will excel with time and development and some who won’t. Whoever develops them better and hits on those guys out of high school will do better. It’s how OSU has been good for so long (last year excluded) while still behind the bluebloods. We’ve developed a ton of 3 star athletes into really good players but can rarely compete with the depth of the bluebloods and blueblood adjacent teams.

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Posted
46 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Well, the fields are empty as is the weekend football schedule... so what's your point?

 

Full transparency Tech hoops at UH last weekend and @ Arizona this weekend is pretty damned fun.

Already giving up on football fella? 😂

8 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Meh, once you get past the first 10-15 teams in those rankings I’ve never thought it matters that much. They get all the 4 and 5 star athletes who can produce right away and create depth, that’s why they usually win more. After that, the difference between 20 and 50 is a crap shoot. It’s mostly 3 stars some of whom will excel with time and development and some who won’t. Whoever develops them better and hits on those guys out of high school will do better. It’s how OSU has been good for so long (last year excluded) while still behind the bluebloods. We’ve developed a ton of 3 star athletes into really good players but can rarely compete with the depth of the bluebloods and blueblood adjacent teams.

I was just shocked that one of the big three conferences was only able to place one team in the top 30 in recruiting.    Yes yes, you’re very relevant.  Power 3 ftw!!!

Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Already giving up on football fella? 😂

 

I haven't been "in" on Tech football in over 15 years.  They're throwing a shit-ton of cash at it right now, but Hoops and baseball are entirely more competitive.

Edited by Iceman
Posted
1 minute ago, closetohumping said:

Yes. Congrats on the ucf dt and getting Hudson back

fatboy slim and one of the worst basket cases in anyone's football memory...

Posted
2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Already giving up on football fella? 😂

I was just shocked that one of the big three conferences was only able to place one team in the top 30 in recruiting.    Yes yes, you’re very relevant.  Power 3 ftw!!!

Holy strawman, Batman, ftw!

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Posted (edited)
On 2/6/2025 at 11:33 AM, Vertigo said:

Surprised SMU is behind TCU and teams like Arkansas. Very very surpised that ASU is down at 49. I really hope they get it going, I like Dillingham.

Recruiting classes are influenced pretty heavily by what came before, not what happened during their senior year.

ASU had its worst season in program history in 2022.  Then it had the same season in 2023.  It'll take a bit to get rolling again, though they're starting to look better for this upcoming class.

Also skeptical they have the NIL to compete with the Joneses yet.  They spent a ton on retention as they kept 36 back from their 2 deep.  Of the people that were eligible to return, only a backup WR and TE left.  Those guys probably weren't gonna play much unless they had a great spring.  Basically, they're running it back without Skattebo and Shamari Simmons and that's where their limited NIL went.

They also took a ton of low-rated offensive linemen.

Also took some tiny school RB from Texas named Grayson Rigdon a few days ago, which could either mean he'll never see the depth chart or be the endless talking point.

Edited by wablty
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Posted

Grayson did it all for a tiny 6-man school prior to moving to Columbus for this past season. Hell of an athlete for those levels and shined above most on those fields.

Will that translate to success early at ASU? I’d definitely try to get his hands on the ball as a Freshman in STs, like punt/KO returns.

Hook’em!!!

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Posted
14 hours ago, wablty said:

Also took some tiny school RB from Texas named Grayson Rigdon a few days ago, which could either mean he'll never see the depth chart or be the endless talking point.

He's just a 4 time State Champion and 4 time State Championship Game MVP.  No chance at all he could be a Welker type player at the college level.  Zero.
 

 Dave Campbell's Texas Basketball Player of the Year finalist as a junior. Averaged 45.1 points, 8.0 rebounds, 4.2 assist, and 6.0 steals.

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Posted (edited)

3-time State game MVP.  He only ran for 119 yards and scored 4 TDs his Senior year in the State game for Columbus, with QB Adam Schoebel getting the MVP nod.

Edited by Iceman
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Posted
1 hour ago, Iceman said:

3-time State game MVP.  He only ran for 119 yards and scored 4 TDs his Senior year in the State game for Columbus, with QB Adam Schoebel getting the MVP nod.

Six-man football 1st 3yrs...

Rigdon, who is listed at 5-foot-11 and 185 pounds, was named a MaxPreps All-American at the small schools level after he helped lead Columbus (Texas) High School to a 15-1 record and 3A Division I state champion last season by rushing for 2,071 yards and 39 touchdowns. He rushed for four touchdowns in a blowout win in the state championship game.

Rigdon won a state championship in each of his four high school seasons as he earlier won three championships while playing six-man football at the 1A level (the lowest classification in Texas). 

https://247sports.com/college/arizona-state/article/asu-football-grayson-rigdon-all-american-sun-devils-nc-state-columbus-245273745/

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Posted

I was looking at TV ratings from the past few years, and noticed something a little surprising. In 2021, 2022, games between B12 rivals like, for example, TCU and OSU would be on Fox or ESPN and draw good ratings (around 2M). Now, they are on FS1 and draw about 450K. 
 
Significance? The B12 has a nice media contract, through 2031, even without Texas and OU. The ratings for non-OUT games from a few years ago support that valuation. The ratings from 2024 do not. 
 
Reasons?

1. B12 doesn’t have nearly as many games on the major channels as before? Has conference realignment allowed the SEC and B1G to schedule more premium games (I believe the conferences absolutely schedule with an eye to rival conference schedules), leaving fewer premium. Channel openings to the B12? Or, do the networks just believe the B12 games won’t draw as well?

2. Did Texas and OU have a “halo” effect, where fans of those schools would watch non-OUT games just to keep up with the conference they were interested in? And now they watch SEC games instead?

Future-

If new media contracts come out in 2031, and the SEC and B1G are making twice or three times what the B12 and ACC get, will the AD payments to players be affected? Aren’t they based on revenue?

Posted

ESPN is sub-licensing B12 football and basketball. 
 
Why do you pay a nice price for a product, and then sub-license it to a competitor? Because you realize that you paid too much and have to extract value, now, where you can. 
 
Again, it is not looking good for the next B12 media contract 

Posted

B12 Basketball is the saving grace, I thought!?  I mean, you've got Kansas, Cinci, and a few other big basketball names.  Hell, the conference is so competitive, the Big 12 in-conference record is .500!   But yeah, I can definitely see fire-selling the football TV contracts.

Posted
1 hour ago, statsman said:

I was looking at TV ratings from the past few years, and noticed something a little surprising. In 2021, 2022, games between B12 rivals like, for example, TCU and OSU would be on Fox or ESPN and draw good ratings (around 2M). Now, they are on FS1 and draw about 450K. 
 
Significance? The B12 has a nice media contract, through 2031, even without Texas and OU. The ratings for non-OUT games from a few years ago support that valuation. The ratings from 2024 do not. 
 
Reasons?

1. B12 doesn’t have nearly as many games on the major channels as before? Has conference realignment allowed the SEC and B1G to schedule more premium games (I believe the conferences absolutely schedule with an eye to rival conference schedules), leaving fewer premium. Channel openings to the B12? Or, do the networks just believe the B12 games won’t draw as well?

2. Did Texas and OU have a “halo” effect, where fans of those schools would watch non-OUT games just to keep up with the conference they were interested in? And now they watch SEC games instead?

Future-

If new media contracts come out in 2031, and the SEC and B1G are making twice or three times what the B12 and ACC get, will the AD payments to players be affected? Aren’t they based on revenue?

2021: OSU was 9-1 and ranked No. 9 in the country, TCU was 4-6.

2022: OSU was 5-1 and TCU was 6-0 and ranked No. 3 in the country.

2024: OSU was 3-7 and TCU was 6-4, also in the same time slot as Bama-LSU.

You don't think that might have had something to do with the difference? Plenty of Big 12 games made it to decent timeslots and did fine (including some not involving CU). Nowhere near a UT or tOSU game, but in line with the contract. Before our season went to complete shit OSU-Arky drew 2.8M even though it was up against UT-UM (it certainly helped that your game was a blowout and ours went to double overtime). The biggest problem the Big 12 will likely have going forward is cannibalism where it will be difficult for one program to win out and make it into the Top 10 with any regularity. It is what it is, the games are still fun, and there's plenty of timeslots available. I doubt it helps to say it for the 40th time, but I and most other Big 12 fans (on this board especially) undertand the difference in ratings and TV contracts. It seems about right to me, I just always will push back against "nobody watches" or the notion that the Big 12 contract should be zero'd out in 2031, that type of hyperbole is just asinine.

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Posted
1 hour ago, 'stache said:

2021: OSU was 9-1 and ranked No. 9 in the country, TCU was 4-6.

2022: OSU was 5-1 and TCU was 6-0 and ranked No. 3 in the country.

2024: OSU was 3-7 and TCU was 6-4, also in the same time slot as Bama-LSU.

You don't think that might have had something to do with the difference? Plenty of Big 12 games made it to decent timeslots and did fine (including some not involving CU). Nowhere near a UT or tOSU game, but in line with the contract. Before our season went to complete shit OSU-Arky drew 2.8M even though it was up against UT-UM (it certainly helped that your game was a blowout and ours went to double overtime). The biggest problem the Big 12 will likely have going forward is cannibalism where it will be difficult for one program to win out and make it into the Top 10 with any regularity. It is what it is, the games are still fun, and there's plenty of timeslots available. I doubt it helps to say it for the 40th time, but I and most other Big 12 fans (on this board especially) undertand the difference in ratings and TV contracts. It seems about right to me, I just always will push back against "nobody watches" or the notion that the Big 12 contract should be zero'd out in 2031, that type of hyperbole is just asinine.

That OSU-Arky game was a function of an early week with few good games freeing up a nice major channel and time slot. 
 
Next season, KSU and ISU start their seasons with a special game in Dublin. I’m sure the coaches hate it, and Yormark loves it. 
 
The B12’s problem, and you hint at it, is that it doesn’t have popular “programs”. 
 
I bet if you asked Yormark whether OSU should play OU in football, he’d say, “Hell, yes”. In just a couple of years, the OSU AD will come around on that. 

Posted
1 hour ago, 'stache said:

2021: OSU was 9-1 and ranked No. 9 in the country, TCU was 4-6.

2022: OSU was 5-1 and TCU was 6-0 and ranked No. 3 in the country.

2024: OSU was 3-7 and TCU was 6-4, also in the same time slot as Bama-LSU.

You don't think that might have had something to do with the difference? Plenty of Big 12 games made it to decent timeslots and did fine (including some not involving CU). Nowhere near a UT or tOSU game, but in line with the contract. Before our season went to complete shit OSU-Arky drew 2.8M even though it was up against UT-UM (it certainly helped that your game was a blowout and ours went to double overtime). The biggest problem the Big 12 will likely have going forward is cannibalism where it will be difficult for one program to win out and make it into the Top 10 with any regularity. It is what it is, the games are still fun, and there's plenty of timeslots available. I doubt it helps to say it for the 40th time, but I and most other Big 12 fans (on this board especially) undertand the difference in ratings and TV contracts. It seems about right to me, I just always will push back against "nobody watches" or the notion that the Big 12 contract should be zero'd out in 2031, that type of hyperbole is just asinine.

Statsman jerks off to this idea.  Just let him.

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Posted (edited)

This thread is just an attempted burial site.  The comic relief is appreciated.

They just won't give us the nod we are not seeking...

Edited by Iceman
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Posted
2 hours ago, statsman said:

That OSU-Arky game was a function of an early week with few good games freeing up a nice major channel and time slot. 
 
Next season, KSU and ISU start their seasons with a special game in Dublin. I’m sure the coaches hate it, and Yormark loves it. 
 
The B12’s problem, and you hint at it, is that it doesn’t have popular “programs”. 
 
I bet if you asked Yormark whether OSU should play OU in football, he’d say, “Hell, yes”. In just a couple of years, the OSU AD will come around on that. 

Ugh, there is no open invitation from OU, both sides have discussed, specifically 2031 as a possibility as it's the first year neither has a P5 noncon currently scheduled. We've scheduled bedlam in pretty much every other sport where it's easier. OU's football noncon opened up far more than ours with the move because they had some SEC programs scheduled as noncons that were made part of the conference schedule and they went from 9 conference games to 8. The AD's get along just fine. It'll happen. If the networks made a proposal for something earlier my guess is it would happen sooner. 

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Posted

It’ll happen once the Big 12 is able to lock in 2 autobids and not punish them for playing and losing to OU every year…then they’ll find a way to free up their schedule before 2031.

Posted
17 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

It’ll happen once the Big 12 is able to lock in 2 autobids and not punish them for playing and losing to OU every year…then they’ll find a way to free up their schedule before 2031.

I just hope Vegetables gets a lifetime contract, lol.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/28/2021 at 12:21 PM, TKthunder2 said:

For reference 

image.png.edac5aee08f21283895264c6119c1744.png

Again, this is amazing (2020 numbers). Two factors, to explain the big ratings drop in B12 non-OU and non-UT games, and they may be inter-related…

1. When Texas and OU were in the conference, the conference (including games without Texas or OU) got more favorable time slots and channels, leading to better ratings. 
2. A lot of Texas and OU fans would tune into other B12 games, out of interest in the competition. Now, they’re tuning into SEC games, instead. 

Edited by statsman
Posted
20 minutes ago, statsman said:

Again, this is amazing (2020 numbers). Two factors, to explain the big ratings drop in B12 non-OU and non-UT games, and they may be inter-related…

1. When Texas and OU were in the conference, the conference (including games without Texas or OU) got more favorable time slots and channels, leading to better ratings. 
2. A lot of Texas and OU fans would tune into other B12 games, out of interest in the competition. Now, they’re tuning into SEC games, instead. 

3. TX and OU made the conference better overall, and a better Big 12 gets more eyeballs than a middle of the pack conference lacking blueblood anchor programs.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, PvilleStang said:

3. TX and OU made the conference better overall, and a better Big 12 gets more eyeballs than a middle of the pack conference lacking blueblood anchor programs.

Of course, this was an era when Texas was typically an eight win team. Texas offered the “prestige” of being a “name” program that was very beatable by the others. 
 
Also, I have to note that in 2020, the PAC and B1G freed up a lot of better time slots and premium channels for non-prime B12 games. I’m sure the networks understood that. 

Edited by statsman
Posted

Reviewing the first pages of this thread, it’s remarkable the B12 is doing as well as it is. When OUT was announced, most thought the B12 was dead- any teams that could would move on- ISU and KU to the B1G, OSU and TT (maybe TCU) to the PAC- and that would be that. 
 
Instead, the PAC went away. The B1G took the kill shot, by nabbing USC and UCLA (and the rich S. California recruiting grounds). 
 
I think a lot of the final winnowing was affected by the COVID year. As I remember, the PAC and B1G were ready to call off the season, until Ohio State and (primarily) intervened. It highlighted the PAC as a place that wasn’t really serious about football (you could say the same about the B1G, but it has just so much money). 
 
I also remember (correct me if I’m wrong), the B12 was the second conference to say they would not be canceling football. So, here we are: the B12 is still here, because it was serious about the game, the commissioner was a wizard at signing a media deal, and perhaps most importantly, the B1G and SEC didn’t want any of the programs left. 

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, statsman said:

Again, this is amazing (2020 numbers). Two factors, to explain the big ratings drop in B12 non-OU and non-UT games, and they may be inter-related…

1. When Texas and OU were in the conference, the conference (including games without Texas or OU) got more favorable time slots and channels, leading to better ratings. 
2. A lot of Texas and OU fans would tune into other B12 games, out of interest in the competition. Now, they’re tuning into SEC games, instead. 

1. I don't think there will be a long term difference in favorable networks and timeslots compared to non OU/TX conference games before the move. I couldn't find any easy stats but if it was less in 2024 its probably because there wasn't any breakout team that spent any meaningful time in the top 10. OSU and Utah were supposed to do that then shit the bed and it was hard to take ASU and ISU seriously until later in the season. 

2. There is probably some of this, offset somewhat by adding four new teams that will tune in more to Big 12 games not featuring their team, I don't think it is a big change, but that's just a feeling.

A number from that chart that I find interesting and gives me hope is that in 2020 OSU v. ISU drew 2.81M viewers, not much less than OU v. ISU at 2.99M. We also broke 2M twice in non OU/TX games (v. ISU and v. Tech). In 2024 before we shit the bed we drew 2.8M v. Arky and 2.1M vs Utah. If that's the high end for the XII from week to week it'll be okay. There won't be any 4M or 5M games once Prime leaves but the contract was signed before he took the job (I think) and no way a network is paying a premium because of one coach who could leave at any moment. 

Bottom line, ratings will never compete on the high end with BIG and SEC, but will do good enough to justify the TV contract. The TNT deal sounds like a good thing, linear is always better than streaming, but it feels like it might take some time for people to realize that TNT is in the CFB game now. Better than CW though, lol.

 

Edited by 'stache
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