Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[YGIFS 19445]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Cincy is just a bad add. It’s a recruiting grounds reach. Sure Ohio is a good football state, but Big 12 teams are going to be the 15th choice after the old Big Ten and Cincy. 

What are you talking about, a lot of high 3-star/low 4-star Ohio athletes grow up thinking of Lubbock or Lawrence, KS as a proving ground one day.  I get the BYU and Houston invites, but the Cincy and UCF thing as "recruiting" plays just baffles me.  Good thing we can quit giving a shit about any of it in about 8 months.  I'm not happy about moving to the SEC, but can't wait to get the fuck outta this train wreck.  

I don't know I went down the rabbit hole, obviously we just need to win out.  But suddenly KSU and ISU are looking a bit saltier as of late.  But looking at the tie-breaker scenarios for the Big XII championship game.  We all knew them cold when it was just Top 2 teams from 10 and we all played each other for a decade+.  But this thing's a flow chart of diarrhea.  We have one slip-up game to KSU or ISU (or worse, TCU)...it gets ugly in a hurry.  Because we also don't play OSU or WVU who could, for some bizarre reason possibly be in the mix with an upset or two on their own.  Early to think about, but this season is flying by so thought I'd have a look.  I think Oklahoma drops one between @OSU & @ BYU, but they're not losing 2 games.  So this gets jammed up with all of us missing different sets of 4 opponents.  /rant

[oSuJeff97 3435]

14 hours ago, YGIFS said:

What are you talking about, a lot of high 3-star/low 4-star Ohio athletes grow up thinking of Lubbock or Lawrence, KS as a proving ground one day.  I get the BYU and Houston invites, but the Cincy and UCF thing as "recruiting" plays just baffles me.  Good thing we can quit giving a shit about any of it in about 8 months.  I'm not happy about moving to the SEC, but can't wait to get the fuck outta this train wreck.  

I don't know I went down the rabbit hole, obviously we just need to win out.  But suddenly KSU and ISU are looking a bit saltier as of late.  But looking at the tie-breaker scenarios for the Big XII championship game.  We all knew them cold when it was just Top 2 teams from 10 and we all played each other for a decade+.  But this thing's a flow chart of diarrhea.  We have one slip-up game to KSU or ISU (or worse, TCU)...it gets ugly in a hurry.  Because we also don't play OSU or WVU who could, for some bizarre reason possibly be in the mix with an upset or two on their own.  Early to think about, but this season is flying by so thought I'd have a look.  I think Oklahoma drops one between @OSU & @ BYU, but they're not losing 2 games.  So this gets jammed up with all of us missing different sets of 4 opponents.  /rant

I'm almost certain that Cincy and UCF weren't added as "recruiting" plays, they were added as "market" plays. TV is driving the bus on this whole thing, after all.

As wild as this seems given our horrid start, OSU will be sitting in a very nice position if we win in Morgantown this weekend. After that, Bedlam at home is our only game against the top half of the conference - all the rest are against the new guys.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Cincy and UCF were added because they’ve been competent programs for awhile and they have some fans who actually engage. No one is under the delusion that XII schools are going to ravage Ohio and Florida on the recruiting trail.

[SimkinsMan 4255]

15 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I'm almost certain that Cincy and UCF weren't added as "recruiting" plays, they were added as "market" plays. TV is driving the bus on this whole thing, after all.

Yep. Ostensibly you're adding the TV markets of the large, populous states of Ohio and Florida to the Big XII footprint with these schools. 

[BurntOrange&White 38890]

Cincy, BYU, and UCF were good adds. Of the adds Houston was the worst from that group. 


All 4 PAC additions are better than all but BYU original 4 additions. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

['stache 21591]

I think UH was probably a recruiting add. More games in Texas. They’ve had some memorable thooos teams over the years but looking more closely I’m surprised how many bad seasons they’ve had.

Edited October 16, 2023 by 'stache

[BurntOrange&White 38890]

Just now, 'stache said:

I think UH was probably a recruiting add. More games in Texas.

The conference features multiple schools from the state already. It was a stupid add.

Edited October 16, 2023 by BurntOrange&White

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Houston is my least favorite add by a mile but I’m not sure who was a better option at the time.

I think at the end of the day, the networks believe if they ever sustain success they will get ratings.

[Nicole44 21969]

Still not understanding why Big 12 didn’t add Washington State and Oregon State. Potential for some Big10 matchups etc…more bodies in the Big12. Neither are bad schools. Certainly both are a better value add than U of H? Or even Cincy? 

[South Austin 51681]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

Still not understanding why Big 12 didn’t add Washington State and Oregon State. Potential for some Big10 matchups etc…more bodies in the Big12. Neither are bad schools. Certainly both are a better value add than U of H? Or even Cincy? 

Agree.  If the implosion of the PAC 12 had happened sooner, the Big XII should have just added Oregon State, Washington State, Arizona, and Arizona State, and called it a day.  Instead, it jumped on BYU, Cincy, Houston, and UCF, which all add a huge dose of "meh" to the conference.  

['stache 21591]

I thought we all understood that it’s not really up to us the networks get to decide. They felt UH made sense then and ORSU and WSU don’t make sense now. Their reasoning is in some complicated spreadsheet somewhere. I want those two schools but not if the networks devalue the tv contract.

[Deej 76220]

18 minutes ago, South Austin said:

the Big XII should have just added Oregon State, Washington State, Arizona, and Arizona State, and called it a day.  Instead, it jumped on BYU, Cincy, Houston, and UCF

If they hadn't added those four when they did, the situation may not have been the same. 

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I thought we all understood that it’s not really up to us the networks get to decide. They felt UH made sense then and ORSU and WSU don’t make sense now. Their reasoning is in some complicated spreadsheet somewhere. I want those two schools but not if the networks devalue the tv contract.

This.

The Pac 12 implosion doesn’t happen without a stable Big 12.  A stable Big 12 doesn’t happen without those additions in the wake of the UT/OU exit.  The whole “Big 12 should’ve waited” argument just doesn’t hold up, IMO.

[JBJ 3598]

Agreed.  The Big12 would have ended up waiting for more teams to leave, not more teams to get added.

I think we were heading into a scenario where only one of the Pac/Big XII were going to survive.

Edited October 16, 2023 by JBJ

['stache 21591]

When the ACC loses its top programs it would make sense for the XII and ACC to get together with the networks and divide geographically east and west. The valuations should be similar enough. Of course Stanford and Cal would probably be the squeaky wheel preferring to play east coast teams because heaven forbid they ever play anyone from the plains.

[TKthunder2 4959]

12 hours ago, 'stache said:

When the ACC loses its top programs it would make sense for the XII and ACC to get together with the networks and divide geographically east and west. The valuations should be similar enough. Of course Stanford and Cal would probably be the squeaky wheel preferring to play east coast teams because heaven forbid they ever play anyone from the plains.

Yep it looks like the best option for all involved.

If you assume FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC, UVA, and Notre Dame all get poached then you’d have a real easy scenario for the ACC/Big12 to functionally merge under an umbrella while remaining separate conferences that negotiate media deals together and simplify travel and scheduling with the outliers in their memberships (UCF, WVU, Cincy / SMU, Cal, Stanford)

New ACC: UCF, USF, GT, NCSU, Duke, WF, Memphis, VT, Pitt, WVU, Cincy, Louisville, Syracuse, UConn, BC, and maybe Temple or Tulane

New Big 12: ISU, KU, KSU, OSU, UH, BU, SMU, TCU, Tech, CU, Utah, BYU, AZ, ASU, Cal, Stanford

[CashMcCoy 3199]

6 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

New ACC: UCF, USF, GT, NCSU, Duke, WF, Memphis, VT, Pitt, WVU, Cincy, Louisville, Syracuse, UConn, BC, and maybe Temple or Tulane

[Evil Bill Obrien 3024]

8 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

New ACC: UCF, USF, GT, NCSU, Duke, WF, Memphis, VT, Pitt, WVU, Cincy, Louisville, Syracuse, UConn, BC, and maybe Temple or Tulane

Outside of Pitt and WVU in the same conference for backyard brawl…

[BurntOrange&White 38890]

21 hours ago, South Austin said:

Agree.  If the implosion of the PAC 12 had happened sooner, the Big XII should have just added Oregon State, Washington State, Arizona, and Arizona State, and called it a day.  Instead, it jumped on BYU, Cincy, Houston, and UCF, which all add a huge dose of "meh" to the conference.  

But them jumping on those 4 did allow them to be in a position of "strength" 

[mdmost 42502]

Incredible ratings when Texas and OU aren’t involved! A future of FS1 isn’t going to work

 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

38 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Incredible ratings when Texas and OU aren’t involved! A future of FS1 isn’t going to work

 

That's an FS1 issue, not a Big 12 issue.

OSU-Kansas State drew like 2.3mm on ESPN on a Friday night two weeks ago. 

The legacy Big 12 schools draw fine when they are on ESPN/ABC or regular FOX.

 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3024]

3 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

That's an FS1 issue, not a Big 12 issue.

OSU-Kansas State drew like 2.3mm on ESPN on a Friday night two weeks ago. 

The legacy Big 12 schools draw fine when they are on ESPN/ABC or regular FOX.

 

But the fact that they are getting shuffled off to FS1 pretty frequently without a matchup with UT/OU...

['stache 21591]

5 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

That's an FS1 issue, not a Big 12 issue.

OSU-Kansas State drew like 2.3mm on ESPN on a Friday night two weeks ago. 

The legacy Big 12 schools draw fine when they are on ESPN/ABC or regular FOX.

 

It's more a function of the non UT/OU Big XII teams this year having a pretty crappy non-conference results leading to lower expectations and hence the FS1 placements. The last few years when neither OU nor UT played for a conference championship, we got better slots and had better ratings, because we were playing better football.  

[oSuJeff97 3435]

7 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

But the fact that they are getting shuffled off to FS1 pretty frequently without a matchup with UT/OU...

That's simply a function fewer of the legacy teams being ranked this year. It ebbs and flows. Last year multiple were ranked and they were on the primary networks pulling good numbers.

It's also a function of how the schedule has broken out... there honestly hasn't been a ton of compelling match-ups between legacy schools yet... when there has been (OSU/K-State, e.g.) they have pulled good numbers. I expect OSU-WVU will pull a good number on ESPN this weekend too.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

It's more a function of the non UT/OU Big XII teams this year having a pretty crappy non-conference results leading to lower expectations and hence the FS1 placements. The last few years when neither OU nor UT played for a conference championship, we got better slots and had better ratings, because we were playing better football.  

ISU/OSU had over 3M viewers a couple years back when you were top 10 and we had Purdy and Hall.

Good, competitive games draw. Bad games only draw their respective fanbases.

Fox and ESPN have decades of data on the non-UT/OU Big 12 schools. They made an informed decision.

[Vertigo 20208]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:45 AM, oSuJeff97 said:

I'm almost certain that Cincy and UCF weren't added as "recruiting" plays, they were added as "market" plays. TV is driving the bus on this whole thing, after all.

As wild as this seems given our horrid start, OSU will be sitting in a very nice position if we win in Morgantown this weekend. After that, Bedlam at home is our only game against the top half of the conference - all the rest are against the new guys.

Yeah, you guys are poised to have a big second half. How Gundy does this with what he is working with I will never know, but that Bedlam game may get away from you. 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 minute ago, Vertigo said:

Yeah, you guys are poised to have a big second half. How Gundy does this with what he is working with I will never know, but that Bedlam game may get away from you. 

Gundy does some madding things sometimes (the stupid fucking QB rotation this year) but he certainly has proven time and again that he absolutely squeezes every bit of performance out of the talent he has on the team.

Yeah we'll see on Bedlam - I put this in another thread, but I'm still waiting to see OU put together a really good performance in a true road game before I write that game off. So far they have looked pretty mediocre in their only two true road games (@ Cincy and @ SMU). Of course, as it typically happens, I'm sure they'll put it all together in Stillwater, lol. 

['stache 21591]

I think OU is very beatable but there's too much emotional baggage involved. I'll never predict us to win that game or to even play well. The rest of the schedule should be winnable if we can take care of WVU on the road this week. 

[jdhorn92 1534]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:16 PM, YGIFS said:

What are you talking about, a lot of high 3-star/low 4-star Ohio athletes grow up thinking of Lubbock or Lawrence, KS as a proving ground one day.  I get the BYU and Houston invites, but the Cincy and UCF thing as "recruiting" plays just baffles me.  Good thing we can quit giving a shit about any of it in about 8 months.  I'm not happy about moving to the SEC, but can't wait to get the fuck outta this train wreck.  

I don't know I went down the rabbit hole, obviously we just need to win out.  But suddenly KSU and ISU are looking a bit saltier as of late.  But looking at the tie-breaker scenarios for the Big XII championship game.  We all knew them cold when it was just Top 2 teams from 10 and we all played each other for a decade+.  But this thing's a flow chart of diarrhea.  We have one slip-up game to KSU or ISU (or worse, TCU)...it gets ugly in a hurry.  Because we also don't play OSU or WVU who could, for some bizarre reason possibly be in the mix with an upset or two on their own.  Early to think about, but this season is flying by so thought I'd have a look.  I think Oklahoma drops one between @OSU & @ BYU, but they're not losing 2 games.  So this gets jammed up with all of us missing different sets of 4 opponents.  /rant

Ageee with all of that. But I’m here for the run.  If we lose, which is entirely possible as you noted, we have no business being in the CCG. This squad needs to exercise all the demons of the last decade and do things none of those teams accomplished and that’s finish inferior teams on the road. Period. We lose one more and we deserve all the tie break misery due us 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by jdhorn92

[Mitch Cumsteen 18413]

1 hour ago, oSuJeff97 said:

That's an FS1 issue, not a Big 12 issue.

OSU-Kansas State drew like 2.3mm on ESPN on a Friday night two weeks ago. 

The legacy Big 12 schools draw fine when they are on ESPN/ABC or regular FOX.

 

It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Are the games on FS1 because nobody is watching them, or is nobody watching because the games are on FS1?

[Pimphand 5524]

3 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Are the games on FS1 because nobody is watching them, or is nobody watching because the games are on FS1?

['stache 21591]

2 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Are the games on FS1 because nobody is watching them, or is nobody watching because the games are on FS1?

That's the wrong question. The early season results means there was less interest in our games and less likely to draw ratings, hence FS1. When we're good people watch, not at the levels of Ohio State or UT, but like Al mentioned, OSU-ISU a few years ago drew 3.5M on a Saturday afternoon, which is pretty strong. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18413]

15 minutes ago, 'stache said:

That's the wrong question. The early season results means there was less interest in our games and less likely to draw ratings, hence FS1. When we're good people watch, not at the levels of Ohio State or UT, but like Al mentioned, OSU-ISU a few years ago drew 3.5M on a Saturday afternoon, which is pretty strong. 

I guess we will see starting next year. I think it's going to be a little tougher to gauge what "good" means in the Big 12 going forward without the on field comparison to OU and Texas. You beat either of those, even with how shitty Texas has been over the past 10+ years, it gives you instant credibility. I'm too lazy to look up what the future non-conference schedules are going forward, but nobody is going to take any team in the Big 12 conference seriously if their only wins are against each other and some bullshit directional schools. I mean, what did TCU's ratings look like when they went to the Rose Bowl? When Boise State was regularly ripping off 9-12 wins per game, were people tuning in? 

['stache 21591]

4 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I guess we will see starting next year. I think it's going to be a little tougher to gauge what "good" means in the Big 12 going forward without the on field comparison to OU and Texas. You beat either of those, even with how shitty Texas has been over the past 10+ years, it gives you instant credibility. I'm too lazy to look up what the future non-conference schedules are going forward, but nobody is going to take any team in the Big 12 conference seriously if their only wins are against each other and some bullshit directional schools. I mean, what did TCU's ratings look like when they went to the Rose Bowl? When Boise State was regularly ripping off 9-12 wins per game, were people tuning in? 

Nope, nobody will watch. Ratings?

[LTtxfan 48727]

1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

Yeah, you guys are poised to have a big second half. How Gundy does this with what he is working with I will never know, but that Bedlam game may get away from you. 

Gundy fucked up, and took responsibility

MIKE GUNDY’S OKLAHOMA STATE MEA CULPA

Uncharacteristically, Oklahoma State had slumped through the back half of its 2022 campaign and closed the first month of this season as a middling, 2-2 football team.

The Cowboys had lost seven of their last 10 games, dating to those ’22 struggles, and then had been blown out at home by Group of Five program South Alabama in September.

But the Cowboys responded in dramatic fashion in their upset-win against nationally-ranked Kansas on Saturday.

Veteran OSU coach Mike Gundy revealed his coaching staff had self-reflected and also apologized.

“In South Alabama, we coached poorly and we played poorly,” said Gundy, one of college football’s longest-tenured head coaches alongside the likes of Utah’s Kyle Whittingham and Iowa’s Kirk Ferentz. “You have to be able to look in the mirror and say, ‘Our coaching was awful in that game,’ which didn’t allow our players to play good because we didn’t give them a chance.

“We couldn’t even get them in the starting gate. We have to identify that and say, ‘OK, we were bad,’ and then tell the players we were bad.”

It wasn’t enough for Gundy & Co. to simply acknowledge their coaching shortcomings to the Cowboys; he also wanted their atonement.

“We apologized,” Gundy said he told the team after its win against Lance Leipold’s Kansas Jayhawks. “Let’s start over. Give us a chance, and then we’ll start to migrate in the direction we need to be in both sides of the ball scheme-wise, and that’s what we’ve done. …

“I think it’s just a matter of not pointing the finger and just saying, ‘Hey, we were awful.’ Didn’t give the players a chance. Let’s figure out a way to give them a chance and move forward.'”

 

[mdmost 42502]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I guess we will see starting next year. I think it's going to be a little tougher to gauge what "good" means in the Big 12 going forward without the on field comparison to OU and Texas. You beat either of those, even with how shitty Texas has been over the past 10+ years, it gives you instant credibility. I'm too lazy to look up what the future non-conference schedules are going forward, but nobody is going to take any team in the Big 12 conference seriously if their only wins are against each other and some bullshit directional schools. I mean, what did TCU's ratings look like when they went to the Rose Bowl? When Boise State was regularly ripping off 9-12 wins per game, were people tuning in? 

I think CU will carry the conference, ratings wise. Even their dogshit game against Stanford got 3.2 million watching on a Friday night. People will still tune in to watch Deion. And sure, if the Big 12 teams do well, people will watch. I just wonder what slots they'll get since the SEC will get most of the ABC/ESPN slots and Fox will be all Big 10, all the time, even more so with the West Coast additions. ACC will get some slots. I feel ESPN+ and FS1 are going to be the big beneficiaries of the Big 12's additions to survive. 

[Richard Kimball 1491]

2 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

Ageee with all of that. But I’m here for the run.  If we lose, which is entirely possible as you noted, we have no business being in the CCG. This squad needs to exercise all the demons of the last decade and do things none of those teams accomplished and that’s finish inferior teams on the road. Period. We lose one more and we deserve all the tie break misery due us 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Richard Kimball

[closetojumping 62010]

3 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

That's an FS1 issue, not a Big 12 issue.

OSU-Kansas State drew like 2.3mm on ESPN on a Friday night two weeks ago. 

The legacy Big 12 schools draw fine when they are on ESPN/ABC or regular FOX.

 

Serious question on this, since I know some of you guys have analyzed this and I haven't - is there more inventory or less inventory to compete with on ESPN/ABC/Fox in 2024 for the Big 12? I know there's a netting up of 2 more teams for the 2024 season, but just wondering if the new tv deals for the expanded SEC/Big 10 and the expanded ACC have any bearing on the amount of FS1/ESPNU type of visits for Big 12 teams.

2 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Gundy does some madding things sometimes (the stupid fucking QB rotation this year) but he certainly has proven time and again that he absolutely squeezes every bit of performance out of the talent he has on the team.

Yeah we'll see on Bedlam - I put this in another thread, but I'm still waiting to see OU put together a really good performance in a true road game before I write that game off. So far they have looked pretty mediocre in their only two true road games (@ Cincy and @ SMU). Of course, as it typically happens, I'm sure they'll put it all together in Stillwater, lol. 

Be honest. You know Gundy is going to do his annual thing against OU and just shit all over himself and the OSU program.

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

That's the wrong question. The early season results means there was less interest in our games and less likely to draw ratings, hence FS1. When we're good people watch, not at the levels of Ohio State or UT, but like Al mentioned, OSU-ISU a few years ago drew 3.5M on a Saturday afternoon, which is pretty strong. 

 

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I guess we will see starting next year. I think it's going to be a little tougher to gauge what "good" means in the Big 12 going forward without the on field comparison to OU and Texas. You beat either of those, even with how shitty Texas has been over the past 10+ years, it gives you instant credibility. I'm too lazy to look up what the future non-conference schedules are going forward, but nobody is going to take any team in the Big 12 conference seriously if their only wins are against each other and some bullshit directional schools. I mean, what did TCU's ratings look like when they went to the Rose Bowl? When Boise State was regularly ripping off 9-12 wins per game, were people tuning in? 

One of the things that I think the Big 12 is going to have to change looking forward is the OOC scheduling. Most of the teams have a marquee OOC game, or at least a respectable one, for 2024. That's well and good, but they're not the hot chicks that the Big 10 and SEC are. They are going to have to work harder to get the eyeball counts that keep future contracts going up and that means a second dud of an OOC game isn't tenable. No one wants to watch Okie State play Tulsa or South Dakota State, and it doesn't matter how good Okie State is. 

That's not isolated, really. Damned near all 16 teams play two terrible OOC games. TCU plays Stanford and SMU, so they're excused. West Virginia has Pitt and PSU again next year, to their credit. Unless I missed one, the rest have trash 2nd and 3rd games.

Only football masochists will tune in to see the brutal buttfucking of the concept of an offense in next year's ISU/Iowa game, but someone will watch. I doubt ISU draws more than 100k for Arkansas State and I am skeptical the North Dakota game will even be televised. It's like that over and over. People are crazy if they don't think that has to change.

Frankly, the ACC has been making this mistake in real time for years and they are paying for it. They decided they'd go the chickenshit SEC route and play 8 conference games while also ensuring the scheduling of 1, and sometimes 2, FCS games for each team. Turns out, no one watches those games, even for Clemson and FSU. Trade the FCS games out for another conference match-up and they look way sexier. Trade the FCS game for a second P5 match-up across the board and they might even look sexier than adding the 9th conference game. 

[statsman 5355]

I think the biggest problem for the B12 teams, in getti mg those nice ABC, Fox and ESPN slots is the competition with the expanded SEC and B10. 
 
Say OSU beats Arkansas next year and ISU beats Iowa, and they meet up mid season with one or two losses, and ranked. That same weekend, the SEC, for example, might have Texas and Tennessee, LSU and S Carolina, OU and Auburn, and TAMU and Arkansas. Ok, so much for ABC and ESPN. 
 
How about Fox? Well, the B10 hasUSC,  UCLA, Washington and Oregon to match up with blue bloods, too

I think there will be a whole lot of FS1, ESPN2 and Friday night games for theB12. 

['stache 21591]

OSU-WVU is on ESPN this week at 2:30. It's up against Bama-Tennessee (CBS), UT-UH (FOX), and WSU-UO (ABC). I think if one or both of WVU or OSU was undefeated they'd get the ABC spot. Yes, each Big 12 team will average fewer ABC/FOX spots without UT/OU on the schedule, but they'll get a few, and that's good enough to justify the TV contract. It's also why each team will likely play one Thurs/Fri game and one Saturday late kickoff each season when there's less competition. OSU has already had one of each and prior to the KU game they were the only games I was able to watch in full. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by 'stache

[PvilleStang 2811]

On 10/16/2023 at 9:27 AM, Nicole44 said:

Still not understanding why Big 12 didn’t add Washington State and Oregon State. Potential for some Big10 matchups etc…more bodies in the Big12. Neither are bad schools. Certainly both are a better value add than U of H? Or even Cincy? 

I'm thinking it's more to do with regionality.  Keep it closer to home, and try to steal more of the Houston market share from aggy and Texas.  With us bouncing to the SEC, the Houston market is toast for the Big 12 if not for the UH grab.

 

The WSU / Oregon argument brings me back to why I hated the WVU snag.  Most of our teams were pretty well centered in the mid-west / Southwest area.  Now you throw in a team way out there on the East Coast, makes for shitty away game experiences for every team.  Now Big 12 deals with WVU, Cinci, BYU, UCF, and the time slot debacles to get their fan-bases engaged.  Luckily BYU is Mountain Time, so between them and the east coasters, you're only looking at a 2 hour difference.

[TKthunder2 4959]

2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Serious question on this, since I know some of you guys have analyzed this and I haven't - is there more inventory or less inventory to compete with on ESPN/ABC/Fox in 2024 for the Big 12? I know there's a netting up of 2 more teams for the 2024 season, but just wondering if the new tv deals for the expanded SEC/Big 10 and the expanded ACC have any bearing on the amount of FS1/ESPNU type of visits for Big 12 teams.

Starting 2024 the Big Ten has exclusive time slots on FOX at noon, CBS afternoon, and NBC prime. All other games will be on BTN, FS1, or Peacock.

The SEC and ACC (minus 1 ACC game a week now on the CW) are full ABC/ESPN with an agreement that ABC afternoon slot will be reserved for the SEC (but not exclusive meaning they could have another game on ESPN at the same time).

The Big 12 is split, however as the Big Ten has an exclusive slot with CBS in that afternoon slot that basically means the Big 12 will own that afternoon window with FOX save for the odd/occasional MWC game.

While it’s hard to predict exactly how the inventory situation will flush out. This seems most likely.

Noon: FOX=B1G, ABC=B12/ACC, ESPN=SEC

Afternoon: CBS=B1G, ABC=SEC, FOX=B12, ESPN=ACC, NBC=ND

Prime: NBC=B1G, ABC=SEC, FOX(after MLB)=B12 (maybe B1G if they can work out a deal with NBC to break the exclusive window), ESPN=SEC

Late: ESPN=B12, FS1=B1G

The Big win here for the Big 12 is FOX. With FOX being locked out of the SEC/ACC and not bidding on the PAC12 and with the Big Ten granting exclusive over the air broadcasting windows to CBS/NBC to get them to play ball the remaining Big 12 programs are going to get a lot air time in that afternoon FOX slot. True it will be opposite of the SEC and Big Ten games of the week plus Notre Dame but that more than the ACC has going for it. Both will have plenty of games on ESPN2/ESPN+ but the Big 12 could theoretically have 3 games OTA while the ACC at most could only have 2 (not including ND home games) which is why I think the Big 12 will be (or already is) clearly the #3 conference.

[TKthunder2 4959]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

OSU-WVU is on ESPN this week at 2:30. It's up against Bama-Tennessee (CBS), UT-UH (FOX), and WSU-UO (ABC). I think if one or both of WVU or OSU was undefeated they'd get the ABC spot. Yes, each Big 12 team will average fewer ABC/FOX spots without UT/OU on the schedule, but they'll get a few, and that's good enough to justify the TV contract. It's also why each team will likely play one Thurs/Fri game and one Saturday late kickoff each season when there's less competition. OSU has already had one of each and prior to the KU game they were the only games I was able to watch in full. 

Once the SEC can be on ABC the Big 12 won’t be on there nearly as much, but with UT leaving that FOX spot would have been a likely landing spot for a game like that.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

9 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Starting 2024 the Big Ten has exclusive time slots on FOX at noon, CBS afternoon, and NBC prime. All other games will be on BTN, FS1, or Peacock.

The SEC and ACC (minus 1 ACC game a week now on the CW) are full ABC/ESPN with an agreement that ABC afternoon slot will be reserved for the SEC (but not exclusive meaning they could have another game on ESPN at the same time).

The Big 12 is split, however as the Big Ten has an exclusive slot with CBS in that afternoon slot that basically means the Big 12 will own that afternoon window with FOX save for the odd/occasional MWC game.

While it’s hard to predict exactly how the inventory situation will flush out. This seems most likely.

Noon: FOX=B1G, ABC=B12/ACC, ESPN=SEC

Afternoon: CBS=B1G, ABC=SEC, FOX=B12, ESPN=ACC, NBC=ND

Prime: NBC=B1G, ABC=SEC, FOX(after MLB)=B12 (maybe B1G if they can work out a deal with NBC to break the exclusive window), ESPN=SEC

Late: ESPN=B12, FS1=B1G

The Big win here for the Big 12 is FOX. With FOX being locked out of the SEC/ACC and not bidding on the PAC12 and with the Big Ten granting exclusive over the air broadcasting windows to CBS/NBC to get them to play ball the remaining Big 12 programs are going to get a lot air time in that afternoon FOX slot. True it will be opposite of the SEC and Big Ten games of the week plus Notre Dame but that more than the ACC has going for it. Both will have plenty of games on ESPN2/ESPN+ but the Big 12 could theoretically have 3 games OTA while the ACC at most could only have 2 (not including ND home games) which is why I think the Big 12 will be (or already is) clearly the #3 conference.

Awesome summary here. Nice job.

[Texas Wahoo 3378]

18 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Starting 2024 the Big Ten has exclusive time slots on FOX at noon, CBS afternoon, and NBC prime. All other games will be on BTN, FS1, or Peacock.

The SEC and ACC (minus 1 ACC game a week now on the CW) are full ABC/ESPN with an agreement that ABC afternoon slot will be reserved for the SEC (but not exclusive meaning they could have another game on ESPN at the same time).

The Big 12 is split, however as the Big Ten has an exclusive slot with CBS in that afternoon slot that basically means the Big 12 will own that afternoon window with FOX save for the odd/occasional MWC game.

While it’s hard to predict exactly how the inventory situation will flush out. This seems most likely.

Noon: FOX=B1G, ABC=B12/ACC, ESPN=SEC

Afternoon: CBS=B1G, ABC=SEC, FOX=B12, ESPN=ACC, NBC=ND

Prime: NBC=B1G, ABC=SEC, FOX(after MLB)=B12 (maybe B1G if they can work out a deal with NBC to break the exclusive window), ESPN=SEC

Late: ESPN=B12, FS1=B1G

The Big win here for the Big 12 is FOX. With FOX being locked out of the SEC/ACC and not bidding on the PAC12 and with the Big Ten granting exclusive over the air broadcasting windows to CBS/NBC to get them to play ball the remaining Big 12 programs are going to get a lot air time in that afternoon FOX slot. True it will be opposite of the SEC and Big Ten games of the week plus Notre Dame but that more than the ACC has going for it. Both will have plenty of games on ESPN2/ESPN+ but the Big 12 could theoretically have 3 games OTA while the ACC at most could only have 2 (not including ND home games) which is why I think the Big 12 will be (or already is) clearly the #3 conference.

All of that makes sense, but ESPN is getting most of the top Big 12 games, so is Fox really going to be showing two Big 12 games most weeks?

 

Quote

ESPN's uptick in investment in the league will give it access to both the most inventory and the league's top games. According to reporting from the SBJ, ESPN's so-called "A" package includes the top four football picks each season and 12 of the top 20. That gives Fox a sizable portion of strong inventory among the 26 football games it has each year. According to the SBJ, ESPN gets the Big 12 football championship and the men's and women's basketball championships.

 

[z009 65]

4 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I guess we will see starting next year. I think it's going to be a little tougher to gauge what "good" means in the Big 12 going forward without the on field comparison to OU and Texas. You beat either of those, even with how shitty Texas has been over the past 10+ years, it gives you instant credibility. I'm too lazy to look up what the future non-conference schedules are going forward, but nobody is going to take any team in the Big 12 conference seriously if their only wins are against each other and some bullshit directional schools. I mean, what did TCU's ratings look like when they went to the Rose Bowl? When Boise State was regularly ripping off 9-12 wins per game, were people tuning in? 

Yep, they wont have their annual super bowls anymore. The other Big 12 teams have based their entire existences off of beating OU or UT. Look no further than Tech fans rushing the field for beating a 6-7 OU team last year. Tech fans also rushed the field against us. Not to mention the SEC chants that get thrown our players' way anytime we lose a road game. I guess they can get hyped for BYU and Central Florida now. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by z009

[oSuJeff97 3435]

2 minutes ago, Texas Wahoo said:

All of that makes sense, but ESPN is getting most of the top Big 12 games, so is Fox really going to be showing two Big 12 games most weeks?

If you're talking about FOX OTA then I think the answer is yes: the 2:30 slot and the prime time slot. Obviously they can farm out other games to various slots on FS1.

I'm not sure how the game selection goes, in terms of whether ESPN/ABC of FOX gets first "dibs" on games, but it seem like, in a given week, if ESPN gets first pick then the Big 12 game will go in the noon slot on either ABC or ESPN and if FOX gets first pick it's going in the 230 or 700 slot, depending on if baseball is going on.

But I don't know for sure - just guessing. 

[Hurtlocker 2208]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:18 AM, BurntOrange&White said:

The conference features multiple schools from the state already. It was a stupid add.

With 4 Texas schools. playing 4.5 home conference home games a year, you can get all sixteen either playing in Texas every year, or every other year, that's why they did it.   

[Texas Wahoo 3378]

7 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

If you're talking about FOX OTA then I think the answer is yes: the 2:30 slot and the prime time slot. Obviously they can farm out other games to various slots on FS1.

I'm not sure how the game selection goes, in terms of whether ESPN/ABC of FOX gets first "dibs" on games, but it seem like, in a given week, if ESPN gets first pick then the Big 12 game will go in the noon slot on either ABC or ESPN and if FOX gets first pick it's going in the 230 or 700 slot, depending on if baseball is going on.

But I don't know for sure - just guessing. 

Based on the article I quoted, it appears that ESPN will select the top four games at the beginning of the season and then the two networks will each start picking the next 16 one at a time (8 each).  My guess is that the rest of the games will be selected by the two networks during the season.

Thunder's analysis suggested that Big Fox would have two Big 12 games on most weeks (afternoon and night), and if so, a chunk of those games are going to be outside of the top 20 Big 12 games that season.

[BachelorTrek 2903]

14 minutes ago, z009 said:

Yep, they wont have their annual super bowls anymore. The other Big 12 teams have based their entire existences off of beating OU or UT. Look no further than Tech fans rushing the field for beating a 6-7 OU team last year. Tech fans also rushed the field against us. Not to mention the SEC chants that get thrown our players' way anytime we lose a road game. I guess they can get hyped for BYU and Central Florida now. 

Irate8/Hateful8 corches will be forced to actually corch for more than *one game against Texas* next year going forward, and ratings pie will shrink more than has been wishcasted.

Look for the Irate8/Hateful8 corching-carousel to go BRRRR after (and/or during) the 2024 season when the shit-corches can't save their hides by beating Texas and face the music.  Lulz.