Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[TheBryMan81 2,633]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Honestly surprised the Big 12 did this before the SEC or even the Big 10.  To be fair, most of the demographics of all three conferences fan bases line up with pro wrestling.

 

 

 

 

https://www.pwmania.com/wwe-signs-new-deal-with-sec-conference-for-series-of-championship-belts

 

SEC had a deal with WWE announced last year

[thunderlounge 8,418]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

KSU is a much bigger game to our fanbase.  It's an actual rivalry.

It’s a shame the b12 doesn’t think so. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6,597]

3 hours ago, Blotto said:

WWE, Lulz. Imagine being over the age of 12 and still giving a shit about professional wrestling. 

 

[Zeus 6,864]

This is real?

So they admit it's fixed?

[Horn Dog 10,158]

oh great.  Can we have some of this?

[Welshy 914]

4 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

oh great.  Can we have some of this?

Refs routinely get beat up, Tech is the drunk skinny guy who drinks too much, UT is the Rock, OU is the TheSasquashahoe. Baylor has a huge 20 inch hardo and always "pins" a little too romantically.... It could work. For about 2 months. 

[BachelorTrek 3,321]

On 11/15/2023 at 8:39 AM, LTtxfan said:

Hilarious... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

The Big 12 could be about to change its tiebreakers in the middle of the season

What's worse: leaving a poorly-written, illogical tiebreaker rule in place, or changing it with two weeks left in the season?

ZACH BARNETT       15 HOURS AGO

Here are the Big 12 standings, as of today:

Texas -- 6-1
Oklahoma State -- 5-2
Oklahoma -- 5-2
Iowa State -- 5-2
Kansas State -- 5-2

If the favorites win out over the season's final two weeks, the final standings would look like this:

Texas -- 8-1
Oklahoma State -- 7-2
Oklahoma -- 7-2
Kansas State -- 7-2

Here are two related items to the standings above:

Since Oklahoma State owns head-to-head over both of the other tied teams, this seems easy: Oklahoma State advances to the Big 12 Championship. Right? Not necessarily.

Oklahoma and Kansas State did not play each other, which, as currently written, means Oklahoma State's head-to-head wins over OU and K-State would be thrown out as the conference moves to its next tiebreaker scenario.

Here are the Big 12 tiebreaker procedures, direct from the conference website:

In No. 1, I believe the comma after "If not" is a typo that has somehow gone unnoticed over the years. Or maybe it's supposed to be there? But if it is, what does that even mean? Who can make sense of this?

I reached out to the Big 12 today to try to make sense of this and have yet to hear back as of this writing.

However, Sellout Crowd reported Tuesday that the conference expects to "clarify" to conference ADs its 3-way tiebreaker procedures on Wednesday. What's more, it seems the "clarification" was sparked by a conversation between a conference official and the reporter.  😂

 

I'll let the great Berry Tramel take it from here:

Last week, I corresponded with a Big 12 source to get clarification on what that tiebreaker meant.

Our exchange kept confusing me, but I eventually was told that because OU and K-State did not play each other, OSU’s sweep of the Sooners and Wildcats was nullified. OK. Seemed silly. But at least I had confirmation.

Then Monday, I was told by the Big 12 source that our Saturday night communication caused further discussion in the conference office, leading to the clarification, which is scheduled to be presented to the Big 12 athletic directors in a conference call Wednesday.

What's worse: not changing your rules to reward the team that obviously should be rewarded, or recognizing your mistake and changing your rules mid-season? 

This is the first season the Big 12 has had to deal with such a problem. As a 12-team conference from 1996-2010, the conference split into two 6-team divisions where all divisional bunk mates played each other (and that still didn't stop Big 12 rules from lifting Oklahoma over Texas in 2008, when most other conference's rules would've named Texas the South champion). From 2011 through last season, the 10-team Big 12 played a 9-game round-robin.

Life as a 14-team conference where not everyone plays each other is new to the Big 12... but it's not new to other leagues. As pointed out by Sellout Crowd, here's how the Mountain West adjudicates the exact scenario the Big 12 could face: “Winning percentage of the tied teams are compared in a mini round-robin format. If, within the mini round-robin, any of the tied teams did not play each other, the group of teams shall remain tied, unless one team defeated all other tied teams.”

The Big 12 botched its first go-round at that same problem. That is beyond dispute. You can't leave a poorly-written, illogical rule in place... but you also can't change your rules mid-season. 

The question now: In whose direction did they botch it? 

 

"But, if, it is, what, does, that, even, mean?"
 

Edited November 17, 2023 by BachelorTrek

[LonghornSean 4,104]

[statsman 5,693]

It’s really funny seeing the article from the Lubbock newspaper calling for a continuation of games with Texas. (My memory is that the Lubbock state rep did not participate in the Austin bitchfest at the Capitol, because they thought there was a deal in the works to continue the TT series. That deal was contingent upon TT helping UT exit the Big XII at a reduced cost, and Tech was unable or unwilling to come through). The disconnect is two-fold:

1. Myopia to the reality that Baylor, TCU, UH, ISU (this shocked me) and others all want to continue playing these games. Baylor had a sold out stadium and night time ABC broadcast when they hosted Texas; they have had streaming for at least five of their other games. 
2. The way they (TT) treat Longhorn fans- the cussing out, the harassment. It’s like they’re satisfied that it doesn’t matter how shitty of hosts they are when the conference requires Texas to play there, and they never worried about what would happen if Texas weren’t required to play there. 
 
Here are the TV ratings so far-

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/
 
It’s clear what they will be looking at, ratings-wise, going forward, except- it will be worse. ESPN paid the Big XII twice what Fox did, to get first choice on a few games, and to pick up the championship games. It looks to me like ESPN paid a premium to help Texas and OU get into the SEC earlier, and is ready to start broadcasting those Texas SEC games, and they will be scheduled to suit ESPN, not the Big XII. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by statsman

[Okie State 3,889]

Holy shit you literally just post the same dumb bullshit over and over again. Go have a beer and enjoy the holiday.

[Al_4_ISU 12,634]

12 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Holy shit you literally just post the same dumb bullshit over and over again. Go have a beer and enjoy the holiday.

It's an absolute obsession.

[LonghornBreeder 550]

16 minutes ago, statsman said:

It’s really funny seeing the article from the Lubbock newspaper calling for a continuation of games with Texas. The disconnect is two-fold:

1. Myopia to the reality that Baylor, TCU, UH, ISU (this shocked me) and others all want to continue playing these games. Baylor had a sold out stadium and night time ABC broadcast when they hosted Texas; they have had streaming for at least five of their other games. 
2. The way they (TT) treat Longhorn fans- the cussing out, the harassment. It’s like they’re satisfied that it doesn’t matter how shitty of hosts they are when the conference requires Texas to play there, and they never worried about what would happen if Texas weren’t required to play there. 
 
Here are the TV ratings so far-

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/
 
It’s clear what they will be looking at, ratings-wise, going forward, except- it will be worse. ESPN paid the Big XII twice what Fox did, to get first choice on a few games, and to pick up the championship games. It looks to me like ESPN paid a premium to help Texas and OU get into the SEC earlier, and is ready to start broadcasting those Texas SEC games, and they will be scheduled to suit ESPN, not the Big XII. 

According to that link Texas and OU games have been the 1 and 2 ranked B12 games every week (no surprise). But in almost all cases, the #2 game has had more than twice as many eyeballs as the #3. In week 9 the #3 game (Cincy v OSU) pulled just over 400k viewers: about 1/6th of the viewership of our game with BYU that week.

In case you think it's because of time slots... When Texas and OU had a by in week 7 the B12's top 2 games only pulled 1M and 800K views, that's 1/3 or less than an average Texas game this year.

I know this whole thread is pointing it already, but the B12 is so fucked.

[statsman 5,693]

19 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's an absolute obsession.

I am fascinated by it. Just like, 60 years later, Georgia Tech fans wonder, “Now, why in the hell did we ever leave the SEC?”, future fans of Big XII schools will wonder, “How in the hell did we let them get away?”

[WBT 20,985]

5 minutes ago, statsman said:

I am fascinated by it. Just like, 60 years later, Georgia Tech fans wonder, “Now, why in the hell did we ever leave the SEC?”, future fans of Big XII schools will wonder, “How in the hell did we let them get away?”

Our leadership decided they'd rather subsidize a bunch of dixie yokels than our former regional rivals.  What were they supposed to do to change it?

Edited November 22, 2023 by WBT

[Al_4_ISU 12,634]

2 minutes ago, statsman said:

I am fascinated by it. Just like, 60 years later, Georgia Tech fans wonder, “Now, why in the hell did we ever leave the SEC?”, future fans of Big XII schools will wonder, “How in the hell did we let them get away?”

Georgia Tech had a choice to leave the ACC.  There was nothing the Big 12 could do in 2021 to keep Texas and Oklahoma.  The only thing the Big 12 schools could have done was go back in time 80 years and ensure they became powerhouses, and done some kind of crazy shit to dramatically change the demographics of the states they were in so they had the brand name cache to satisfy fans, and more importantly, have the viewers and fanbases to keep the TV networks happy.

 

That you see these situations as even remotely similar is bizarre.  We all know the Big 12 will have lower ratings than the SEC and Big 10.  The networks know this.  That's why they're paying them less.  The Big 12 will still outdraw the rest of college football.  This has been hashed, and rehashed, over and over and over.  You aren't cracking any kind of code, and no one is really arguing against this greater point.

[statsman 5,693]

5 minutes ago, WBT said:

Our leadership decided they'd rather subsidize a bunch of dixie yokels than our former regional rivals.  What were they supposed to do to change it?

A lot of the B12 resentment of Texas (which has been very real for years, in the Irving office) resulted from the LHN. They couldn’t stand that we weren’t rolling our tier 3 into a conference network and sharing the loot. 
 
What could they have done differently? They could have realized that if a down Texas makes them a lot of money, a resurgent Texas makes them even more. They could have not freaked out about the initial plans for the LHN, which were to weaponize it to support UT recruiting. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,634]

The schools that were the most upset about the LHN left the Big 12 over a decade ago. 

[statsman 5,693]

I think there has been resentment in the league office, for a while. 
 
A dozen years ago, or so, the Oklahoma Thunder lost a playoff game, and the OKC newspaper had a big photo of KD, calling him out as non-clutch. LeBron James commented, “It’s like they don’t realize he can be a free agent.”

What could the Big 12 do in 2021? Nothing. There sure were things they could have done in 2008, though. Of course, that was three commissioners ago, and every university has probably gone through the same number of presidents and ADs. All these programs are locked into paths that they were put on years ago, by people that are long gone. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,634]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

I think there has been resentment in the league office, for a while. 
 
A dozen years ago, or so, the Oklahoma Thunder lost a playoff game, and the OKC newspaper had a big photo of KD, calling him out as non-clutch. LeBron James commented, “It’s like they don’t realize he can be a free agent.”

What could the Big 12 do in 2021? Nothing. There sure were things they could have done in 2008, though. Of course, that was three commissioners ago, and every university has probably gone through the same number of presidents and ADs. All these programs are locked into paths that they were put on years ago, by people that are long gone. 

Correct.

And much of this is driven by things that the universities themselves have absolutely 0 control over.

[Deej 77,846]

The landscape of college football changing as it has been ensured UT and OU had to grab a seat at the adult table. No good being the adults in folding chairs at the card table the kids eat at. 

[Nivek 17,415]

Correct.
And much of this is driven by things that the universities themselves have absolutely 0 control over.

Yormark may not have started it, but he has continued on the same stupid path. In other words new boss is same as the old boss who was the same as the old boss. That is why we are where we are.

[Al_4_ISU 12,634]

7 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Yormark may not have started it, but he has continued on the same stupid path. In other words new boss is same as the old boss who was the same as the old boss. That is why we are where we are.

Yormark is nothing like previous Big 12 leadership.  Other than he pissed off Texas fans.  Prior to his comments about the UT/TTU game, people on this board were constantly posting shit like "where was this guy when we were still in the league?".

It is not possible for the Big 12 to achieve the same financial ends as the SEC and the Big 10.  It is a complete and utter waste of time for the new Big 12 to think that way and try to position themselves as such.  He's aggressively positioning the league to be the best of what's left, and has the schools within rowing together in that direction.  A lot of the shit he does looks ridiculous, but his job is to maximize value and keep the league afloat and he's crushing it on that end.  I don't like his demeanor, or some of the things he's done, but it's a necessary evil in the current landscape of college sports.

I understand why people here don't like him, but he's nothing like Dan Beebe or Bob Bowlsby in any way, shape, or form.

[Wally Fairway 5,677]

9 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Correct.

And much of this is driven by things that the universities themselves have absolutely 0 control over.

 

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

The landscape of college football changing as it has been ensured UT and OU had to grab a seat at the adult table. No good being the adults in folding chairs at the card table the kids eat at. 

The existence of conferences that have all-sports is an antique dinosaur; football and to a much lesser extent drive the eonomics of college sports. The quicker schools break the revenue sports from the non-revenue sports will allow football to have 4 12 team super conferences that will become division 1-A$$. And the monies will flow, without worrying about the 12-17 other sports. 
The migration of teams has been all about money, which conferences have the revenues from TV rights, and now can pay the most for players and coaches. Based on my thesis (4-12 team football conferences) there is still another round or more of realignments)

 

[CoTex 1,177]

32 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Yormark is nothing like previous Big 12 leadership.  Other than he pissed off Texas fans.  Prior to his comments about the UT/TTU game, people on this board were constantly posting shit like "where was this guy when we were still in the league?".

It is not possible for the Big 12 to achieve the same financial ends as the SEC and the Big 10.  It is a complete and utter waste of time for the new Big 12 to think that way and try to position themselves as such.  He's aggressively positioning the league to be the best of what's left, and has the schools within rowing together in that direction.  A lot of the shit he does looks ridiculous, but his job is to maximize value and keep the league afloat and he's crushing it on that end.  I don't like his demeanor, or some of the things he's done, but it's a necessary evil in the current landscape of college sports.

I understand why people here don't like him, but he's nothing like Dan Beebe or Bob Bowlsby in any way, shape, or form.

Catchy slogan - "Big 12, we're the best of what's left."

[Nivek 17,415]

Yormark is nothing like previous Big 12 leadership.  Other than he pissed off Texas fans.  Prior to his comments about the UT/TTU game, people on this board were constantly posting shit like "where was this guy when we were still in the league?".
It is not possible for the Big 12 to achieve the same financial ends as the SEC and the Big 10.  It is a complete and utter waste of time for the new Big 12 to think that way and try to position themselves as such.  He's aggressively positioning the league to be the best of what's left, and has the schools within rowing together in that direction.  A lot of the shit he does looks ridiculous, but his job is to maximize value and keep the league afloat and he's crushing it on that end.  I don't like his demeanor, or some of the things he's done, but it's a necessary evil in the current landscape of college sports.
I understand why people here don't like him, but he's nothing like Dan Beebe or Bob Bowlsby in any way, shape, or form.

I think people on here were hopeful for Yormark and his decision to expand was the correct one for the conference. But with respect to OU/TX it was too little too late. The conference preferred to be run by petty people and they brought in another petty person.

Had he done his job, I don’t think there would be an issue with Texas playing former conference teams. But instead he doubled down on the officiating fuckery, picked sides, and promoted predictable lies.

So yeah, I guess he looks great to you, but you are looking at shadows and elected these shackles.

['stache 22,145]

[cochamps 1,886]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:46 AM, Al_4_ISU said:

ISU fans don’t consider Texas a rivalry. They just want to win the last game badly. Don’t confuse the two. But sure, one dumb lineman is an ambassador for the whole fanbase.

You can tell me how little you care about the Big 12, yet all you do is post about it.

You can tell me ISU didn't consider it a rivalry, but I saw jugulars sticking out of 60,000 hayseed necks Saturday. 

And though you ween't addressing me, I do care about the Big XII.  At least to the extent I would like to see it die in a fire:  Commissioner, fraudulent deputy commish, crooked refs, and Irate 8.  Fuck all of them.

 

And though you weren't addressing me, I care about the Big XII.  I want to see it die in a fire: commissioner, criminal deputy commish, crooked refs, and Irate 8.  

Edited November 22, 2023 by cochamps

[closetohumping 17,818]

2 hours ago, CoTex said:

Catchy slogan - "Big 12, we're the best of what's left."

Big 12 - We got Deion.  Oh shit, nevermind.  

 

Will be interesting to see how the next tv contract lines up.  Hey, but y'all killed the Pac 12, congrats.

[Tex Long 4,665]

25 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

  Hey, but y'all killed the Pac 12, congrats.

I am probably not the only one who thinks it is more accurate to say that the Pac12 killed itself, using nothing more than the skill and daring of moronic commissioners.

[closetohumping 17,818]

20 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

I am probably not the only one who thinks it is more accurate to say that the Pac12 killed itself, using nothing more than the skill and daring of moronic commissioners.

IMO USC killed the Pac 12

[WelfareBuysMyWeed 5,662]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Prior to his comments about the UT/TTU game, people on this board were constantly posting shit like "where was this guy when we were still in the league?".

 

you stupid son of a bitch. nobody was begging for garbage like UH or BYU to join this conference, you fucking liar.

Edited November 23, 2023 by WelfareBuysMyWeed

[statsman 5,693]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

I’m sorry, but I’m going to keep replying to this thread. I’m enjoying the result of the Big 12 standing up to Texas and its underperforming self. 

[Okie State 3,889]

The landscape of college football changing as it has been ensured UT and OU had to grab a seat at the adult table. No good being the adults in folding chairs at the card table the kids eat at. 

No fucking shit. How many ways can the same thing be said?

[Austin 39]

31 minutes ago, Okie State said:

No fucking shit. How many ways can the same thing be said?

To be fair, you're complaining that it's being discussed on surly in a thread meant to discuss it...

[Al_4_ISU 12,634]

You can tell me ISU didn't consider it a rivalry, but I saw jugulars sticking out of 60,000 hayseed necks Saturday. 
And though you ween't addressing me, I do care about the Big XII.  At least to the extent I would like to see it die in a fire:  Commissioner, fraudulent deputy commish, crooked refs, and Irate 8.  Fuck all of them.
 
And though you weren't addressing me, I care about the Big XII.  I want to see it die in a fire: commissioner, criminal deputy commish, crooked refs, and Irate 8.  

You seem like a pussy.

ISU routinely puts 60K in Jack Trice. You think it’s about you?

[statsman 5,693]

7 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You seem like a pussy.

ISU routinely puts 60K in Jack Trice. You think it’s about you?

Honestly, none of us suspected that we were such a big deal to the Cyclones program until Jarrod revealed it. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,634]

Honestly, none of us suspected that we were such a big deal to the Cyclones program until Jarrod revealed it. 

Jarrod is a moron. If selling out means ISU considers you a rival, than the whole conference is our rival. And UNI. And South Dakota State

[statsman 5,693]

I’m talking about when he said that Texas and Iowa were the two big games. If he doesn’t get that from the coach, where does he get that from?

Edited November 23, 2023 by statsman

[Nivek 17,415]

46 minutes ago, statsman said:

Honestly, none of us suspected that we were such a big deal to the Cyclones program until Jarrod revealed it. 

You hit capacity 3 times this season.  Iowa, Kansas, and Texas.    Jarrod might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I think that sentiment was shared by another player as well but not quite as bulletin board material.   So from what I can see, that attitude permeates your team (we remember that 5 star culture crack).    From what I could see, your fans were really engaged, but there was a lot of anti-Texas stuff for fans who are just passionate about ISU.  We all have paint chip eating fans, and I was limited to what perspective the TV showed so that might not be representative.  But hearing it from coaches and multiple players,  it is fair for us to draw that conclusion.    

Example  1, 2, 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Nivek

[statsman 5,693]

If you’re Matt Campbell, taking the ISU job in 2016, you look at a big name like Texas that went 6-7 and 5-7 the prior two years, and you see vulnerability. There are deep flaws in the Texas program, so of course you draw a bullseye on them. For whatever reasons (there were many), the UT program wasn’t performing, so you take advantage of it. 
 
The problem for Texas was that every pissant program in the B12 saw the same thing, the same opportunity. 

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,599]

Let's be real here. We are every team in the Big 12's super bowl. Why, because we think we are better than all of you and you are lucky to have us around, and we also draw the biggest audience and most of the media attention. The truth is, everyone wants a shot at the big dog, especially when the big dog has been down. Coaches livelihoods and contract extension are made off of beating Texas. Hell, a bad year turns into a good one if you just win that one game on your schedule. Ask ole Dennis Franchione about that. 

Texas will be missed, but we wont miss you. Bye bye little 12. 

[cochamps 1,886]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Jarrod is a moron. If selling out means ISU considers you a rival, than the whole conference is our rival. And UNI. And South Dakota State

There’s a difference between a sellout and a jihad.  I’ve been to that stadium when it was full, but not with the exuberance of aTm - everyone standing & yelling the entire game.  Maybe that happens for Iowa or KSt, but not on regular.  
 

BTW, your coach is a pussy.

Edited November 23, 2023 by cochamps

[MisterP 127]

I still just love checking this thread, seeing the same people being defensive and obsessed with our website, and knowing we will leave this group of loser schools behind in the dust....welll that is my Thanksgiving gift. Enjoy your midwest lives with fat, ugly women, in terrible fly over city states, with your Cheddars and Chilis and school spirit.

[Alien Octopus 665]

When watching last week I saw two old hags holding up an Iowa st colored throw that said horns down. I at first thought they were aggy but remembered they were just Tornado Aggy.
 

Wonder what they are going to do with their throw now?

ISU has heart, they are a less successful version of TCU without the boot wearing hotties.  See you guys in hell.

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 3,647]

14 hours ago, Okie State said:

Holy shit you literally just post the same dumb bullshit over and over again. Go have a beer and enjoy the holiday.

 

14 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's an absolute obsession.

 

10 hours ago, 'stache said:

 

7 hours ago, Okie State said:

No fucking shit. How many ways can the same thing be said?

 

7 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You seem like a pussy.

ISU routinely puts 60K in Jack Trice. You think it’s about you?

['stache 22,145]

Lol. Happy Thanksgiving guys. Go Cowboys (Dallas).

[closetohumping 17,818]

11 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You seem like a pussy.

 

[Guest]

Texas fans in this thread continue the big brother act, as if aggy is here.

"Y'all just hate us because we're good."

"Nope, it's mainly because you're entitled pricks who have every advantage and think the world is against you."

 

Just fucking go.  Really.  Have a nice life.

Edited November 23, 2023 by slorch

[Gidnik 3,496]

14 minutes ago, slorch said:

Texas fans in this thread continue the big brother act, as if aggy is here.

"Y'all just hate us because we're good."

"Nope, it's mainly because you're entitled pricks who have every advantage and think the world is against you."

 

Just fucking go.  Really.  Have a nice life.

[Guest]

Indeed.  Texas thinks a lifetime of bullshit on their part is going to miraculously change.