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Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

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ATXhorn17

ATXhorn17 1677

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Florida as a program has like 200 wins less than Texas. No, they are not "almost identical."

Hooray for us, I guess. Florida has won 2 titles in the 2000s (‘06 and ‘08). Texas has won 1 and played for another (‘05 and ‘09). Both programs have churned through coaches since then… I know you’d like to believe we’re special, but in the modern era, UF has achieved a similar level of success…
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It's a large Texas forum. Every thread will largely be dominated by Texas posters. This is news? Not only that, it's funny in some form? My view is that the Big 12 will be fine as the 4th of 4 la

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WelfareBuysMyWeed

WelfareBuysMyWeed 5662

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2 minutes ago, ATXhorn17 said:


Hooray for us, I guess. Florida has won 2 titles in the 2000s (‘06 and ‘08). Texas has won 1 and played for another (‘05 and ‘09). Both programs have churned through coaches since then… I know you’d like to believe we’re special, but in the modern era, UF has achieved a similar level of success…

Only pussies without the wins have to use qualifiers like "the modern era."

See: Aggy, OU

Edited by WelfareBuysMyWeed
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Paul Wesley

Paul Wesley 3313

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8 hours ago, royiv said:

TCU has already proven it can do just fine in a conference without Texas and OU.

No doubt.  They have maximized their potential, and I rooted for them when they did.  I also rooted pretty hard for Okie State in 2011 (and since), and I have rooted for Iowa State any time they're out of conference.  That, in spite of Patterson being a chode, Campbell being an uber-douche, and OSU having two wins vs Texas absolutely handed to them via comically one-sided officiating.  

Meanwhile, my friends from all three of those fanbases (okay, I don't actually know anyone from Iowa State) tell me at all opportunities how arrogant Texas is, how we hold way too much power in the league, etc... yet, when I ask them to tell me EXACTLY how that's true outside of refusing to play against a Nebraska team full of partial qualifiers who would have been academically ineligible in Austin, they can't name a single grievance.  (side note:  refusing play against those partial qualifiers was 1) right, 2) just, 3) fair, and 4) almost THIRTY fucking years ago. 

(edit:  dammit, computer just glitched and posted before I was finished this rant)

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Paul Wesley

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19 minutes ago, WelfareBuysMyWeed said:

Only pussies without the wins have to use qualifiers like "the modern era."

See: Aggy, OU

OU has been crazy successful by any historic metric.  They have bounced back from their down years (Schnellenberger, Blake) with 25 years of excellence.

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WelfareBuysMyWeed

WelfareBuysMyWeed 5662

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3 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

OU has been crazy successful by any historic metric.  They have bounced back from their down years (Schnellenberger, Blake) with 25 years of excellence.

Sooner losers loves to use the term "modern era" to talk about the red river shootout precisely because they don't have the wins before their arbitrary cut off point, because they're pussies.

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WelfareBuysMyWeed

WelfareBuysMyWeed 5662

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3 minutes ago, Lone Star Horn said:

Ser Davos Jon Snow GIF by BuzzFeed

When speaking about non-individual quantity, "less than" is grammatically correct. Saying one team has a group of wins less than another team is the correct term. You would only say "fewer than" if you are talking about individual quantities. You don't say "christmas is fewer than 6 weeks away," you say "christmas is less than 6 weeks away" because "6 weeks" in this case constitutes a singular quantity, not 6 individual weeks. I am not talking about 200 wins individually, I am talking about a group of 200 wins, hence the grammatically correct term is "less than." Internet pendants always get this wrong when trying to flex.

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Paul Wesley

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33 minutes ago, WelfareBuysMyWeed said:

When speaking about non-individual quantity, "less than" is grammatically correct. Saying one team has a group of wins less than another team is the correct term. You would only say "fewer than" if you are talking about individual quantities. You don't say "christmas is fewer than 6 weeks away," you say "christmas is less than 6 weeks away" because "6 weeks" in this case constitutes a singular quantity, not 6 individual weeks. I am not talking about 200 wins individually, I am talking about a group of 200 wins, hence the grammatically correct term is "less than." Internet pendants always get this wrong when trying to flex.

*pedants

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LateAughtsHorn

LateAughtsHorn 588

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On 11/24/2023 at 4:48 PM, WelfareBuysMyWeed said:

Florida as a program has like 200 wins less than Texas. No, they are not "almost identical."

Florida has less wins all time than Nebraka, too. Your point? The whole blueblood thing is cool, but us Texas fans put way too much stock into that. Do you think Georgia fans give a damn that our overall history is better than their's? 

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statsman

statsman 5693

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Good news for IR8. The ISU-KSU game actually had really good ratings. Two good teams, major network, exciting and competitive play, in a compelling environment- 3.29 M viewers. 
 
BYU at OSU had 2.39 M. 
 
Baylor finally got off streaming and nearly drew 700K on FS1. 
 
UH at UCF drew less than 200 K viewers. I suspect the last four adds to the B12 will be the engines of popularity. The four added for this year- UH, UCF, BYU, Cincy- will be a drag (except BYU)

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12627

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I had unsubscribed this thread, but figured I'd poke my head in after I saw that Farmageddon had the best ratings of any Fox night game this year.

You're right that the 3 of those 4 will likely be a drag, but the Big 12 never helps tear the Pac apart if they don't make those adds for stability.  BYU belongs at this tier for sure.  UCF might do ok if they get their shit together - they have a decent sized fanbase for a former G5.  Cincy and Houston are always going to be in really tough spots.  Cincy at least has a history of people giving a shit when they're good.  Houston doesn't even have that.

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bolverk

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21 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I had unsubscribed this thread, but figured I'd poke my head in after I saw that Farmageddon had the best ratings of any Fox night game this year.

You're right that the 3 of those 4 will likely be a drag, but the Big 12 never helps tear the Pac apart if they don't make those adds for stability.  BYU belongs at this tier for sure.  UCF might do ok if they get their shit together - they have a decent sized fanbase for a former G5.  Cincy and Houston are always going to be in really tough spots.  Cincy at least has a history of people giving a shit when they're good.  Houston doesn't even have that.

Because I got my undergrad at Tech (even though I've always been a Texas fan - it's just my parents didn't want me to move to hedonist Austin, but I did get my master's at UT), I'm still a supporter of Tech and want to see the new Big XII succeed.

So, I've been following the viewership for games and have compiled the figures for the season sans UT/OU to see how the conference is doing. BYU has been good for TV, appearing on ABC/ESPN/FOX several times. But UC/UH/UCF have certainly been drags, and their games have had the lowest viewership for multiple teams.

My team, Tech, has been a disappointment, but aside from UT, didn't get a single game on ABC/ESPN/FOX but have only been relegated to ESPN2/FS1/FS2. So, I'm going to tell myself that's why they averaged so low. They didn't get that one bump they needed. You can see where UCF's average is a little higher, but their median is much lower.

Here are the numbers for the regular season game numbers not involving Texas or Oklahoma. Hopefully, the new additions can bump this up some, but it's hard to tell from this site since so many of their games were on the Pac Network, which isn't tracked by this site.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

image.thumb.png.dbd58c4b3096dfa163d9857b0893331f.png

 

image.thumb.png.55c34f53744731c8f1c36e5b8982d230.png

 

 

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LTtxfan

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15 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Kliff would get people tuning in out of curiosity for sure.  It would have a limited appeal if he didn't win.

I guess long-term I expected that Traylor might have more fan appeal for UH... Kliff just seems boring and old news as a Head Coach.

Kliff needs to go back to being just an OC on a staff with a good defensive head coach if he's serious about reviving his career.  

 

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Al_4_ISU

Al_4_ISU 12627

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2 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

UH/UCF 185k viewers…woof

Snowmageddon pulled good numbers but with games more spread out on Fri/Sat they had less direct competition. Crazy that the Big 12 isn’t going to protect the game as a rivalry…

IMG_6394.thumb.webp.d3b6b3bf26f775ed9e7c9ab2917a929a.webp

 

What's crazier than the Big 12 not protecting it, is that both schools' ADs act like it isn't a big deal in spite of the screaming protests from both fanbases.

It really is ISU and KSU's respective faults as institutions for not formally embracing it.  Which is just completely asinine.

I suspect it's driven by some academic snobbery bullshit of not wanting to embrace a goofy nickname that owns the schools' Midwest ag roots.  Because they're afraid we'll look like hayseeds.  Newsflash - we're fucking hayseeds.  Own it.

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PvilleStang

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34 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

UH/UCF 185k viewers…woof

Snowmageddon pulled good numbers but with games more spread out on Fri/Sat they had less direct competition. Crazy that the Big 12 isn’t going to protect the game as a rivalry…

IMG_6394.thumb.webp.d3b6b3bf26f775ed9e7c9ab2917a929a.webp

 

I think the biggest draw for KSU / ISU was the snow itself.  I watched merely to see the teams battle it out in the snow.  It could have been Grambling State vs Harvard, I would have watched given the same weather.

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Valmy77

Valmy77 13626

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On 11/24/2023 at 1:50 PM, royiv said:

17 year old seniors in high school give no fucks about wins 50 or even 20 years ago.

To me there are two acceptable numbers: All-time and 21st Century.

Don't give me "since 1968" or whatever. At this point 1980 might as well by 1930 for how relevant it is.

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Vertigo

Vertigo 20498

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46 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

What's crazier than the Big 12 not protecting it, is that both schools' ADs act like it isn't a big deal in spite of the screaming protests from both fanbases.

It really is ISU and KSU's respective faults as institutions for not formally embracing it.  Which is just completely asinine.

I suspect it's driven by some academic snobbery bullshit of not wanting to embrace a goofy nickname that owns the schools' Midwest ag roots.  Because they're afraid we'll look like hayseeds.  Newsflash - we're fucking hayseeds.  Own it.

It can/should be a marquee game for the conference. You are losing Red River and Bedlam, but you are gaining the holy war. Beyond that there isn't shit for established rivalry games outside of TCU/Baylor which nobody gives a shit about even when they were both winning. Kansas/K State is out there, but has never really been a marquee game. I think it would be interesting if Utah and Ok State struck up some bad blood, same with Colorado and Tech.

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bolverk

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Here are the attendance figures from the regular season for the new Big XII. Given stadium sizes, they look pretty good, except for West Virginia (which was a big surprise) and, of course, fucking Houston. The highest attended game was Cincinnati at BYU; the lowest was West Virginia at Houston.

Since the numbers were available for the new additions (unlike TV), I decided to throw in their numbers for games that involved only conference mates they're going with. I also threw in future conference games for everyone.

image.thumb.png.75a8b3856316d3bde598fb89d2006260.png

Arizona State only seemed to have an attendance problem with out-of-conference September hot weather games. Attendance at the rest of their games was spotty, depending on opponents (and ASU sucked this year). 

It's going to be interesting to see if Colorado and Arizona can sustain momentum, especially if Prime or Fisch leave anytime soon.

 

Edited by bolverk
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Slacks

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On 11/24/2023 at 1:50 PM, royiv said:

17 year old seniors in high school give no fucks about wins 50 or even 20 years ago.

i'm damn near a senior in life, and I give no fucks about the 1969 national championship...  i've met some of those guys. happy for them. great job. i was not alive (among other things.)

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9046

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17 minutes ago, Slacks said:

i'm damn near a senior in life, and I give no fucks about the 1969 national championship...  i've met some of those guys. happy for them. great job. i was not alive (among other things.)

I entered UT a decade after the ‘69 MNC, so the VY Rose Bowl to HS Srs is more ancient than the ‘63 MNC was to me. The ‘63 season seemed like long forgotten times to my stupid ass in ‘79. 

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Slacks

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14 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I entered UT a decade after the ‘69 MNC, so the VY Rose Bowl to HS Srs is more ancient than the ‘63 MNC was to me. The ‘63 season seemed like long forgotten times to my stupid ass in ‘79. 

i'm a decade behind you... so the highlight of my (Longhorn) life was Shock the Nation... 

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statsman

statsman 5693

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2 hours ago, bolverk said:

Here are the attendance figures from the regular season for the new Big XII. Given stadium sizes, they look pretty good, except for West Virginia (which was a big surprise) and, of course, fucking Houston. The highest attended game was Cincinnati at BYU; the lowest was West Virginia at Houston.

Since the numbers were available for the new additions (unlike TV), I decided to throw in their numbers for games that involved only conference mates they're going with. I also threw in future conference games for everyone.

image.thumb.png.75a8b3856316d3bde598fb89d2006260.png

Arizona State only seemed to have an attendance problem with out-of-conference September hot weather games. Attendance at the rest of their games was spotty, depending on opponents (and ASU sucked this year). 

It's going to be interesting to see if Colorado and Arizona can sustain momentum, especially if Prime or Fisch leave anytime soon.

 

That’s interesting, but attendance is based on ticket sales, not butts in seats. Let’s see if those numbers hold with the sexier games off the schedule. 

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bolverk

bolverk 30332

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4 minutes ago, statsman said:

That’s interesting, but attendance is based on ticket sales, not butts in seats. Let’s see if those numbers hold with the sexier games off the schedule. 

Two points:

  1. You'll note with the yellow cells (lousy weather games), I specifically mentioned that those were ticket sales - not attendance - for Okie Lite's and K State's last home game. Seeing the stands on TV this past weekend, it was obvious.
  2. These are all the in-conference games, sexy and not sexy alike. Out-of-conference is another story. Regardless, without UT/OU, they'll do "okay" in the conference on attendance. Most of these schools have passionate football fan bases who'll show up for home games. They'll still mostly fill up their 50,000-seat stadiums.

But I think the TV stuff *is* absolutely a problem.

If these programs are smart, they'd recognize that with their not-so-great TV numbers, they're going to have to schedule more sexy games to get on TV in September to make up for any potential attendance loss over the season. OOC FCS cupcakes do neither.

Plus, with the perception of the conference already suffering from the losses of UT/OU (even though I'd still put them alongside ACC for most years in conference strength) and USC/UW/UO (from the Pac), they'll need sexy OOC for exposure and recruits. It goes without saying that they need to win a lot of those games.

As others have said, they also really need to lean into rivalries (which they've so far failed on the scheduling. Huge fail.). Everyone on this board knows rivalries are the lifeblood of college football, stirring up the passions of their schools' fans and gaining eyeballs from those who are just fans of the game.

Otherwise, they'll risk a further degradation in perception as G5-type conference, but I think getting the big state schools from out west will greatly help over the short term.

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statsman

statsman 5693

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I was driving past Baylor Stadium, returning from UT’s KSU game. Baylor was going into OT against UH. From the freeway, you could see the upper deck was near empty (the broadcast was in ESPN+). Per your chart, listed attendance was 41,180, about 93% capacity, when in actuality the stadium was maybe 70% full. Maybe. 
 
In other words, attendance for a Baylor-UH game in 2023 was about what it would have been in 1995 or 1975. That killed the SWC. 

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9046

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4 hours ago, Slacks said:

i'm a decade behind you... so the highlight of my (Longhorn) life was Shock the Nation... 

Remember the game against eventual MNC Colorado?  The Buffs were obviously ranked, and Texas had the lead in the late 3Q. The CU D looked gassed, but instead of using Butch Hadnot to step on their throat when we got the ball back, McWilliams subbed out most of our OL to give them a rest. We went 3 and out, and CU went on an extended drive, giving their D a much needed break. We ended up losing a close one.

The funny thing is, if we win that game, we probably end up playing Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl for the MNC instead of just a New Years bowl game against the Hurricanes. Texas actually matched up pretty well with ND, much better than we did with Miami. That team could’ve won it all instead of getting pantsed.

Edited by ImissWallyPryor
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StrippersAndNobelPrizes

StrippersAndNobelPrizes 855

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12 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Remember the game against eventual MNC Colorado?  The Buffs were obviously ranked, and Texas had the lead in the late 3Q. The CU D looked gassed, but instead of using Butch Hadnot to step on their throat when we got the ball back, McWilliams subbed out most of our OL to give them a rest. We went 3 and out, and mCU went on an extended drive, giving their D a much needed break. We ended up losing a close one.

The funny thing is, if we win that game, we probably end up playing Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl for the MNC instead of just a New Years bowl game against the Hurricanes. Texas actually matched up pretty well with ND, much better than we did with Miami. That team could’ve won it all instead of getting pantsed.

I was at both 😡🤬😠

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9046

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20 hours ago, CTC2 said:

Was the Colorado loss the one where Bill Cunningham was quoted in the paper as saying how great it was that we kept it close?

My recollection is of the Syracuse tie in 1993 - the week after losing in Boulder - when Bill declared, “It doesn’t get any better than this!” I was hanging out near Big Tex after we lost to OU, and Cunningham was working his was through the crowd. I yelled at him, “Does it get any better than this, Bill?”

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