Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[Al_4_ISU 12,376]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

You have nothing to base that off of.  

 

Also, regarding the 08 screw job, I believe a few of the big 12 coaches votes us outside of their top 5.

I have 20 years of media narratives to base that off. 

The most obvious example is how when you guys announced you were leaving, the Stewart Mandels of the world were popping champagne and dancing on the Big 12's grave and then they spent all last summer bemoaning the end of the Pac 12 and painting the Big 12 as some kind of lecherous villain intent on ruining the sport.

The constant PR assault on the league has been cited by many on this board as one of the main reasons to leave.  When Texas was in the Big 12 and seemingly stuck 5-6 years ago, people were constantly pointing out how the narrative surrounding the league was basically complete bullshit.

[statsman 5,355]

Quote

Eh, no.   Leaving early, contractually with the media partners, actually had to be settled out by giving Fox more.    The Big 12 teams did not get a premium for six years to allow a one-year early exit, that's crazy talk.   If there was movement the Big12 would have been looking at a $60m average over 6-8 years, due to how their T1 contract was severely undervalued from being so old, now they're looking at a $40m over 6, that's a sizable decrease with the big brand exits.   Additionally, they likely got 10-15% less for signing fast.  However, after watching what happened to the Pac, resigning at stable rates was the exact right decision.     I don't think anyone in whatever the new 16 is going to be called, is going to be complaining about media revenues.

The only increase that occurred here that isn't market dependent is the boosts they gave to the schools coming in, but that was completely paid for by Texas and OU's buy out fees.     They basically invested it to lure in more schools, like Colorado and Arizona. 

 

We will see when the next B12 media contract is signed. 

Edited February 2 by statsman

[statsman 5,355]

15 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I'm not disagreeing on that specific point.  Those tie breakers were horrific, and the Big 12 has made plenty of other mistakes over the years.

However, my general point is still true.  If the Big 12 cured cancer, the national narrative would be about how the conference fucked all these researchers out of a job.  Whatever decision the Big 12 makes on anything is going to get shit on in the court of public opinion, regardless of the merits (or lack thereof) of said decision as a result of who is making it.

I don’t think the Big XII conference doings draw the national attention you think they do. 
 
They didn’t when Texas and OU were members and they won’t after they’re out. 

['stache 21,591]

[closetohumping 17,302]

12 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I have 20 years of media narratives to base that off. 

The most obvious example is how when you guys announced you were leaving, the Stewart Mandels of the world were popping champagne and dancing on the Big 12's grave and then they spent all last summer bemoaning the end of the Pac 12 and painting the Big 12 as some kind of lecherous villain intent on ruining the sport.

The constant PR assault on the league has been cited by many on this board as one of the main reasons to leave.  When Texas was in the Big 12 and seemingly stuck 5-6 years ago, people were constantly pointing out how the narrative surrounding the league was basically complete bullshit.

This will play out over time.  You may not be as hot as you think you are in five years, especially if Deion is gone.  But yes congrats on punking the PAC 12

[Al_4_ISU 12,376]

Neither of you actually read anything in the posts you quoted.

[statsman 5,355]

Thoughts:

An SEC school’s message board is an odd place to advocate for the Big XII. 
 
The last five Big 8 schools, four of the six smallest SWC programs, the last four PAC adds, commuter schools in Ohio and Florida, BYU and WVU are a curious formation of a conference that believes itself to be the third strongest. 
 
Thise ex-PAC schools- they absolutely believe they should be in a top conference, and have no institutional ties to the Big XII nor any of its members. 
 
The Big XII schools did well in understanding that, with the exit of UT and OU, they need to all drop the Bill Snyder scheduling model. 
 
 

[Al_4_ISU 12,376]

Thoughts:

-It's a thread about the Big 12.  No one is spamming UT or SEC threads with these conversations.  Ban non UT posters and get it over with if that's what y'all want, or just stop replying to this thread if you're tired of it.

-Well, it's the current reality.  What's your vote for #3?  An ACC who's 2 best schools are trying to sue their way out and actually makes less money than the Big 12?

-Sounds like the other conferences at this point.

-Yes.  The Big 12 has survived because the remaining schools understand what they are.  Long time power conferences schools that have never sniffed blue blood status, have smallish but generally fanatical fanbases, and has to market themselves in a completely different fashion because they lack the monster fanbases, media markets, and historical cache of the upper half of the SEC and Big 10.

[alincoln 2,350]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

If the Big 12 cured cancer, the national narrative would be about how the conference fucked all these researchers out of a job. 

You don't have to worry about the national narrative anymore.

[closetohumping 17,302]

29 minutes ago, statsman said:

Thoughts:

An SEC school’s message board is an odd place to advocate for the Big XII. 
 
The last five Big 8 schools, four of the six smallest SWC programs, the last four PAC adds, commuter schools in Ohio and Florida, BYU and WVU are a curious formation of a conference that believes itself to be the third strongest. 
 
Thise ex-PAC schools- they absolutely believe they should be in a top conference, and have no institutional ties to the Big XII nor any of its members. 
 
The Big XII schools did well in understanding that, with the exit of UT and OU, they need to all drop the Bill Snyder scheduling model. 
 
 

They may very well be the third strongest, but it's the Big 2 and everyone else now.  There is no Power 5 anymore.

[TrashMaster G 17,301]

So, to summarize this thread....

 

[mdmost 42,500]

Yeah, the Power 2 era has arrived.

 

[Guest]

Anyone with the Big XII attaching any value to Deion's cache will have the chair pulled out from under them in about 2 years, or whenever the last Sanders young man is done at CU.

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,024]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

Yeah, the Power 2 era has arrived.

 

Think this one probably sticks around longer than the last alliance, not great if you thought ACC and Big 12 were “power” conferences 

 

[closetohumping 17,302]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

Yeah, the Power 2 era has arrived.

 

Wait are we sure the bug 12 isn’t sending a rep?  They’re the third best conference.  
 

im sure yormark has a proposal that will explain the benefits of the power 3!

Edited February 2 by closetohumping

[Crockett 455]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

-It's a thread about the Big 12.  No one is spamming UT or SEC threads with these conversations.  Ban non UT posters and get it over with if that's what y'all want, or just stop replying to this thread if you're tired of it.

Seriously.

"No one cares about the Big 12..." But here they are following the thread and commenting on it.

[MissingInAction 24,431]

7 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Wait are we sure the bug 12 isn’t sending a rep?  They’re the third best conference.  
 

im sure yormark has a proposal that will explain the benefits of the power 3!

They're sending the Undertaker.

We will see WWE matches during Big12 halftime. Mark it down.

[closetohumping 17,302]

20 minutes ago, Crockett said:

Seriously.

"No one cares about the Big 12..." But here they are following the thread and commenting on it.

Sweet burn Farva

[thunderlounge 7,642]

[Vertigo 20,208]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

Wait are we sure the bug 12 isn’t sending a rep?  They’re the third best conference.  
 

im sure yormark has a proposal that will explain the benefits of the power 3!

Blacktop basketball tournaments in Rucker Park, international games, and a promise to expand to 50 teams. What wouldn't you want in that equation?

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1,262]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:12 AM, statsman said:

The better Big 12 games will involve Utah, CU and the Arizona schools. 

This is completely insane. The better games will include Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Utah, and Kansas.

[statsman 5,355]

18 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

This is completely insane. The better games will include Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Utah, and Kansas.

Why? What makes you think KSU, OSU and KU are positioned to be better than CU, ASU and Arizona in future years?

Edited February 3 by statsman

[mdmost 42,500]

 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1,262]

24 minutes ago, statsman said:

Why? What makes you think KSU, OSU and KU are positioned to be better than CU, ASU and Arizona in future years?

Fan support and recent history of success. Kansas is a stretch if we are talking more than the next couple of years. I would probably swap them for TCU.

[General Specific 3,155]

 

[Okie State 3,708]

Why? What makes you think KSU, OSU and KU are positioned to be better than CU, ASU and Arizona in future years?

Arizona State has won six games over the past two years. Arizona had a nice season and then their coach jumped ship. CU has potential, but to this point has been all hype. They draw lots of eyeballs, but were honestly shit last year.

[Deej 76,219]

36 minutes ago, Okie State said:

They draw lots of eyeballs

The Big 12 better hope they continue to do so. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3,024]

4 minutes ago, Deej said:

The Big 12 better hope they continue to do so. 

If they don't Big 12 gonna have to put games in all kinds of exotic locations to try and keep drawing them eyeballs. Maybe Yormark can partner with Elon and figure out a way to host the first football game on the moon...

[Okie State 3,708]

The Big 12 better hope they continue to do so. 

Okay.

[Deej 76,219]

Getting more eyes than any other remaining Big 12 team.

[Hookem10 584]

This thread is very aggyish….big 12 will be fine- I mean it’s still football. Texas will also be fine. It can be true at the same time but the bitching to each other keeps me coming back. 

[statsman 5,355]

1 hour ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Fan support and recent history of success. Kansas is a stretch if we are talking more than the next couple of years. I would probably swap them for TCU.

Fan support- do you base that on attendance? Because those PAC schools do better than you might think. 
 
As for recent performance, this is a new world. Those PAC schools will recruit their states (all growing), Cali (because that’s who they’ve always recruited) and Texas. 
 
In today’s FWST, there is an interview with TCU’s fired DC. He talks about how tough NIL is, how all the players are asking, how they have agents, how it’s a huge distraction. Point is- TCU was in the NC game two years ago and is not up to the new era. Old tropes don’t apply any more. 

[Deej 76,219]

27 minutes ago, Hookem10 said:

This thread is very aggyish….big 12 will be fine- I mean it’s still football. Texas will also be fine. It can be true at the same time but the bitching to each other keeps me coming back. 

How many Surly posters are on the Irate 8 boards talking about this?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Deej said:

How many Surly posters are on the Irate 8 boards talking about this?

That's a function of this board/ community being awesome.  That's also a greatness in which we (mostly) all contribute.

It has not a fucking thing to do with conference alignment.

i don't post on B1G or SEC boards.  I joined Wazzu's board while Leach was there.  Never thought about joining MSU's.

Tech's board flat out sucks.

Edited February 4 by slorch

[Deej 76,219]

4 minutes ago, slorch said:

Tech's board flat out sucks

That tells you all you need to know about Tech.

Edited February 4 by Deej

[Hookem10 584]

I can’t wait to see who the jihad games are gonna be now that UT and sooner trash are gone. Interesting to watch the big 12 next year do horns down in every sport forgetting we gone. 

[Deej 76,219]

Just now, Hookem10 said:

I can’t wait to see who the jihad games are gonna be now that UT and sooner trash are gone. Interesting to watch the big 12 next year do horns down in every sport forgetting we gone. 

Rent free

[Hookem10 584]

Texas tech should start war with Arizona schools and try to make it a thing. DIRT BOWL TROPHY AND SHIT. might be a good start of a rivalry. And they can do forks down and all that bullshit 

[59 Burst 434]

8 hours ago, slorch said:

That's a function of this board/ community being awesome.  That's also a greatness in which we (mostly) all contribute.

It has not a fucking thing to do with conference alignment.

i don't post on B1G or SEC boards.  I joined Wazzu's board while Leach was there.  Never thought about joining MSU's.

Tech's board flat out sucks.

and that SECrant is a fucking beating.

[DFW Horn 6,039]

12 hours ago, Hookem10 said:

Texas tech should start war with Arizona schools and try to make it a thing. DIRT BOWL TROPHY AND SHIT. might be a good start of a rivalry. And they can do forks down and all that bullshit 

It's almost like you've forgotten what it was like in the Border Conference back in the day.

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

I just hope the Big12 finally gets its marketing act together.  Morphing coaches, cryptic ad reads over seizure-inducing strobed pictures, I don’t even think the logo was designed well.  I would watch the SECSECSEC ads, the BiG map ad or the ad with babies and old people and  think “Those look professional.  Big 12 ads look like a student media team did an ad for a third-tier sports drink.”  Hell, even the Pac12 “Conference of Champions” ads were better.  

WWE is not the answer.  

[DFW Horn 6,039]

2 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

I just hope the Big12 finally gets its marketing act together.  Morphing coaches, cryptic ad reads over seizure-inducing strobed pictures, I don’t even think the logo was designed well.  I would watch the SECSECSEC ads, the BiG map ad or the ad with babies and old people and  think “Those look professional.  Big 12 ads look like a student media team did an ad for a third-tier sports drink.”  Hell, even the Pac12 “Conference of Champions” ads were better.  

WWE is not the answer.  

I thought the Big12 had copyrighted Big14, 16, 18, etc. Now would be the time for a re-branding.

But, I don't think the current logo is any worse than others.

[GhostOfTomJoad 9,252]

14 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

WWE is not the answer.  

Does this guy looks like he has a Plan B?

[DFW Horn 6,039]

1 minute ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Does this guy looks like he has a Plan B?

Yormark knows how to promote the hell out of basketball from his days in Brooklyn.

Football, not so much.

[Liquor and Poker 3,659]

22 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

I thought the Big12 had copyrighted Big14, 16, 18, etc. Now would be the time for a re-branding.

But, I don't think the current logo is any worse than others.

I never liked the “wide at both ends and thin in the middle” curved design over the original that just used plain romans. But you have a point that the logos all suck.  SEC has the benefit of being an improvement over the old one.  

[GhostOfTomJoad 9,252]

No one doubts his basketball bona fides. Playing at Rucker Park is a sign of that. And going forward his best chance at success is developing and touting the BXII as a basketball conference. And it could be no worse than the #2 b'ball conference going forward. But branding football w/ the WWE reeks of gimmick and desperation. I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to find a way to invite UNLV to the BXII as an opportunity to move the conference championship game to Vegas. 

[Lidig8r 1,840]

14 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Does this guy looks like he has a Plan B?

Nice suit. John, Phillips, London. Rumor has it that Arafat buys his there.

Or not. (you can tell by the sleeve buttons on the suit coat.  A quality suit has buttons that actually operate like buttons. A real dandy leaves one unbuttoned.)

[Hank Chinaski 6,308]

55 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

It's almost like you've forgotten what it was like in the Border Conference back in the day.

In 1957, the University of Texas villainously seduced Texas Tech University and lured it to the Southwest Conference, thus striking the blow that directly led to the disintegration of the once-proud Border Conference. A sort of canary-in-the-coal-mine, this is the first instance of what became an unscrupulous pattern of brazen conference-icide committed by the University. UT’s Machiavellian, ruthless cunning over the decades - during which it repeatedly took the shameful, disgusting act of adapting to the economic realities of major college sports - is primarily…nay, solely responsible for the cruel and unjust treatment of victimized ex-affiliated institutions. 

[Paul Wesley 3,273]

2 hours ago, Lidig8r said:

A quality suit has buttons that actually operate like buttons. A real dandy leaves one unbuttoned.)

Username checks out.

[TKthunder2 4,959]

14 hours ago, DFW Horn said:

I thought the Big12 had copyrighted Big14, 16, 18, etc. Now would be the time for a re-branding.

They did at one point. Not sure how long those are good for if they never use them.

Either way, right now is NOT the time to rebrand. The Big 12 brand has outlasted the PAC12 and looks to be in a good spot to beat out the ACC too.

Change the name to the Big16 and the casual fan isn’t going to know what that refers to for a few years. You lose the identity that was built around OU and UT which still gives some credence to them being a Power conference.

On top of that, if the ACC falls apart, and the “Big 16” adds 4 more are you just going to rebrand again?

The wisest moves is to stand pat, wait for the ACC drama to unfold and then pick up the best pieces (Pitt, Louisville, VA Tech, NCSU). Then might be the best time to rebrand as the Big Twenty or BigXX, or maybe even something without numbers.