Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[DanTheHorn 4,913]

21 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I don't disagree, but they'll never be able to crack tOSU, Michigan, USC, and Penn State.  All of those programs have a lot more built in advantages.  Their ceiling right now seems like 5th place in the Big 10.  

Once Nebraska wasn't a Top 2 job in their league, they started a hard fade.

I agree with you on Bama.  Their renaissance was due to the best coach in the history of the sport being there.  I don't think DeBoer is that.

I agree with with three programs you have listed but how does Penn State have more advantages? Please educate us.

[closetojumping 62,549]

4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I guess I'm lost on what the hell we're talking about. I literally acknowledged your point. Here is part of what I said: "it’s not a “rivalry” even if some OSU fans say it is, because it’s not by traditional definitions."

Best I can figure its semantics. I consider a "rivalry" to have some objective and mutual basis. Fans objectively, and subjectively on both sides, recognize Bedlam as a rivalry (while acknowledging that OU-UT is a much bigger rivalry). Nobody would objectively say that OSU-Texas is a rivalry, nor would most Texas fans (Don Draper memes and whatnot). Whatever polls are being cited almost certainly inserted the term "rivalry" into a context that doesn't really fit. They are two separate questions. "We hate them and want to beat them really bad" does not equal "they're our rivals." It's just traditional "want to beat the big dog" mentality that exists in every sport.

I'm also confused as to what the anger is on this issue. At first, I thought the anger was that fans outside of OU and aggy call UT a rival when it's not, because UT doesn't care. Now it sounds like your mad that an OSU or ISU fans would say "it's not a rivalry" while admitting that it's a big game that we want to win more than any other game outside of bedlam? That last part is really confusing to me.

There's not any anger from me, if that's what you mean. I find it fun that other fanbases despise us, usually for specious reasons.

[Al_4_ISU 12,451]

2 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

I agree with with three programs you have listed but how does Penn State have more advantages? Please educate us.

The amount of football talent in that part of the world absolutely dwarfs what comes out of Nebraska.  Pennsylvania is a massive state population wise, and Penn State is the only school with a statewide fanbase there.

Really it's a lot of the same advantages that the other 3 have, but it's not quite on their level.

['stache 21,795]

8 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

There's not any anger from me, if that's what you mean. I find it fun that other fanbases despise us, usually for specious reasons.

"Specious" reasons? UT is "The Joneses," big dogs, a blueblood. Like the Cowboys, Yankees, Lakers, teams that people love, and others love to hate. That's like a fundamental aspect of big time sports. 

Edited February 28 by 'stache

[DanTheHorn 4,913]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The amount of football talent in that part of the world absolutely dwarfs what comes out of Nebraska.  Pennsylvania is a massive state population wise, and Penn State is the only school with a statewide fanbase there.

Really it's a lot of the same advantages that the other 3 have, but it's not quite on their level.

Nebraska got kids out of California and Texas and used the fact they were good to recruit Florida and New Jersey. Local kids was never their secret to success.

[Al_4_ISU 12,451]

5 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

Nebraska got kids out of California and Texas and used the fact they were good to recruit Florida and New Jersey. Local kids was never their secret to success.

Right.  They overcame their disadvantage.  Kids in those places have never been alive for a Nebraska conference championship, let alone a national one.

You asked me what advantages Penn State has over Nebraska.  Local talent is the big one.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,177]

On 2/12/2024 at 8:23 AM, BurntOrange&White said:

Per Bobby: A high ranking official within Texas program says Texas will not be scheduling Big 12 teams in football or basketball for the foreseeable future. 

This kinda sucks just because I would still like to see us schedule Kansas for basketball, but no one else. 

[closetojumping 62,549]

13 minutes ago, 'stache said:

"Specious" reasons? UT is "The Joneses," big dogs, a blueblood. Like the Cowboys, Yankees, Lakers, teams that people love, and others love to hate. That's like a fundamental aspect of big time sports. 

Consider that Texas wasn't a cheater and that the fans, in person, usually draw high praise. Or that everyone is treated well when they come to Austin. The villainy of being a conference killer is silly. Sure, taking down the giant is always fun, but Texas takes all comers in the non-con, doesn't make up fake titles, etc., and so forth. I don't mind being hated, I just think a lot of the nonsense that gets heaped onto Texas, especially when they're down, is gratuitous. Rodney Terry plays a bitch on tv and now the entire Texas fanbase is soft and can't handle horns down. It's absurd to watch.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,177]

4 hours ago, Vertigo said:

And of course, Tech shows their ass again on the way out. Never again you bunch of trailer park castoffs. Fuck your team, fuck your coaches, fuck your town, fuck your tumbleweeds. 

 

At least we fucked their faces on the way out 

[thunderlounge 7,813]

For there to be a rivalry, it has to be from both sides. 
 

Thus, ousux, piggy, aggy. 
 

Pretty fucking simple. You can think your a rival to a team, but aren’t if they don’t give a shit.

 

[billfromlaketravis 11,447]

I’ll give Tech credit. They’re consistent. When they knew it was over with aggy and they’d never play them again, they threw shit in the aggy team bus. When they figured out Texas hoops would never again set foot again in Lubbock, they threw shit on the court. 

[PvilleStang 2,875]

Just now, billfromlaketravis said:

I’ll give Tech credit. They’re consistent. When they knew it was over with aggy and they’d never play them again, they threw shit in the aggy team bus. When they figured out Texas hoops would never again set foot again in Lubbock, they threw shit on the court. 

This had to be the first time they were gracious hosts for UT.  They bent over and took it like a champ!

[ImissWallyPryor 9,046]

7 hours ago, closetojumping said:

That holds true for Bama, too. While they're in a recruiting rich area with a rapid fanbase….

[ImissWallyPryor 9,046]

16 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Nebraska fans haven't been happy since 2001.

I recently had a lifelong Husker fan bemoan to me that they ever got rid of Solich. 

Edited February 29 by ImissWallyPryor

[Al_4_ISU 12,451]

5 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I recently had a lifetime Husker fan bemoan to me that they ever got rid of Solich. 

As well he should

[Gaffords 755]

9 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I recently had a lifelong Husker fan bemoan to me that they ever got rid of Solich. 

If Nebraska quietly got rid of football, would anybody even notice?

[PvilleStang 2,875]

11 minutes ago, Gaffords said:

If the US quietly got rid of Nebraska, would anybody even notice?

FIFY

[DanTheHorn 4,913]

17 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Right.  They overcame their disadvantage.  Kids in those places have never been alive for a Nebraska conference championship, let alone a national one.

You asked me what advantages Penn State has over Nebraska.  Local talent is the big one.

We try but you keep missing the point.

https://huskers.com/sports/football/roster

[Al_4_ISU 12,451]

14 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

We try but you keep missing the point.

https://huskers.com/sports/football/roster

You’re the only one that doesn’t get my point.

[Ghost of LL 15,531]

21 hours ago, alincoln said:

2024 Iowa State Home Football Schedule

Saturday, Aug. 31: North Dakota

Saturday, Sept. 21: Arkansas State

Saturday, Oct. 5: Baylor

Saturday, Oct. 19: UCF

Saturday, Nov. 2: Texas Tech

Saturday, Nov. 16: Cincinnati

Saturday, Nov. 30: Kansas State

Wow. This is Conference USA level. Even worse is that ISU has to play at Arkansas State in 2025.  

I'm pretty sympathetic to UCF because Mrs.LL is an alumna.  But even so, seeing "UCF" on your schedule isn't going to get any Iowa State fan excited (or fan of Kansas State or Texas Tech or Utah).  And let's be real--the same goes for Cincinnati and Houston.  BYU excites Utah fans because of that historical rivalry, but that's about it.

I mean, I get why the Big XII did it at the time.  But woof--those additions just look worse and worse on a schedule that is now lacking Texas and Oklahoma.

 

And by the way--how the fuck did Iowa State not get one of the new Pac-10 refugees on its home schedule?  That would add a little spice to this otherwise completely shitty and bland Hot Dish.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,177]

17 hours ago, thunderlounge said:

For there to be a rivalry, it has to be from both sides. 
 

Thus, ousux, piggy, aggy. 
 

Pretty fucking simple. You can think your a rival to a team, but aren’t if they don’t give a shit.

 

Well I don't give a shit about Arky or consider them a rival? Not sure why I should, but apparently the olds have a rivalry with them. That's before my time 

Edited February 29 by Spider2YBanana

[PvilleStang 2,875]

18 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I'm pretty sympathetic to UCF because Mrs.LL is an alumna.  But even so, seeing "UCF" on your schedule isn't going to get any Iowa State fan excited (or fan of Kansas State or Texas Tech or Utah).  And let's be real--the same goes for Cincinnati and Houston.  BYU excites Utah fans because of that historical rivalry, but that's about it.

I mean, I get why the Big XII did it at the time.  But woof--those additions just look worse and worse on a schedule that is now lacking Texas and Oklahoma.

 

And by the way--how the fuck did Iowa State not get one of the new Pac-10 refugees on its home schedule?  That would add a little spice to this otherwise completely shitty and bland Hot Dish.

I only got excited about Cinci because that's where my parents went.  But my pops will pull for UT these days over his alma mater.  Would have been fun to take him the a game at DKR with Cinci in town, but alas, it didn't happen.

[Al_4_ISU 12,451]

30 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I'm pretty sympathetic to UCF because Mrs.LL is an alumna.  But even so, seeing "UCF" on your schedule isn't going to get any Iowa State fan excited (or fan of Kansas State or Texas Tech or Utah).  And let's be real--the same goes for Cincinnati and Houston.  BYU excites Utah fans because of that historical rivalry, but that's about it.

I mean, I get why the Big XII did it at the time.  But woof--those additions just look worse and worse on a schedule that is now lacking Texas and Oklahoma.

 

And by the way--how the fuck did Iowa State not get one of the new Pac-10 refugees on its home schedule?  That would add a little spice to this otherwise completely shitty and bland Hot Dish.

We get 2 of them next year.

ISU fans don’t care that much about the opponent brand.  We look at that schedule and see a rivalry game to cap the season and a bunch of games we should win.

We’ll average close to a sell out in every game unless the team just falls apart.

Edited February 29 by Al_4_ISU

[Deej 76,754]

You'll have more eyes in the stands than on the TV broadcasts.

[dec3169 501]

2 hours ago, PvilleStang said:

If the US quietly got rid of Nebraska, would anybody even notice?   FIFY

Probably have to wait until Warren Buffet dies first.   Dude was born in 1930 though...

[BabaYaga 15,288]

2 hours ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Well I don't give a shit about Arky or consider them a rival? Not sure why I should, but apparently the olds have a rivalry with them. That's before my time 

Yep.  Back in the day, HUGE rivals in both football, and then later basketball - anyone remember the old "strollin' Nolan" days?

[DanTheHorn 4,913]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You’re the only one that doesn’t get my point.

Let me spell it out for you only Oregon (money), USC, Ohio State and Michigan can throw their weight around in the BIG 10 conference and get the kids they want and constantly recruit in the top 10. Nebraska (18) and Penn State (15) even out because they can easily both recruit top 20 ranking talent. Penn State may be geographically closer to top level talent but only once in a while are they going to beat out Ohio State and Michigan for local talent those guys really covet. Therefore, both Penn State and Nebraska depend on their evaluations and development to be successful. So who gives a shit if that talent is local or from California and Texas. I sent you the Nebraska roster so that you could see that no matter how bad Nebraska sucks they are still pulling talent from states in which talent can be found.

Yet some more proof that Nebraska does not have far to climb to reach Penn State even though they have sucked really badly compared to Penn State. The problem with the original statement is you lumped Penn State into a category in which they do not belong

https://247sports.com/season/2023-football/collegeteamtalentcomposite/

Edited February 29 by DanTheHorn

['stache 21,795]

 

Fuck Nebraska.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12,451]

11 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

Let me spell it out for you only Oregon (money), USC, Ohio State and Michigan can throw their weight around in the BIG 10 conference and get the kids they want and constantly recruit in the top 10. Nebraska (18) and Penn State (15) even out because they can easily both recruit top 20 ranking talent. Penn State may be geographically closer to top level talent but only once in a while are they going to beat out Ohio State and Michigan for local talent those guys really covet. Therefore, both Penn State and Nebraska depend on their evaluations and development to be successful. So who gives a shit if that talent is local or from California and Texas. I sent you the Nebraska roster so that you could see that no matter how bad Nebraska sucks they are still pulling talent from states in which talent can be found.

Yet some more proof that Nebraska does not have far to climb to reach Penn State even though they have sucked really badly compared to Penn State. The problem with the original statement is you lumped Penn State into a category in which they do not belong

https://247sports.com/season/2023-football/collegeteamtalentcomposite/

Well if your point is that Penn State doesn’t belong with OSU, Michigan, and USC then just say so.  I agree.

I wasn’t putting them on that level.  I was saying they’re at a level I can’t see Nebraska reaching.

[DanTheHorn 4,913]

12 minutes ago, 'stache said:

 

Fuck Nebraska.

 

Someone that was left behind and would like to view Nebraska through a bias like aggy when they really could easily reside with Penn State in the same tier due to their history and fan base.

Edited February 29 by DanTheHorn

['stache 21,795]

4 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

Someone that was left behind and would like to view Nebraska through a bias like aggy when they really could easily reside with Penn State in the same tier due to their history and fan base.

Like I said, Fuck Nebraska, what the problem is?

[PvilleStang 2,875]

19 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Like I said, Fuck Nebraska, what the problem is?

[Hagbard Celine 10,850]

boone pickens was worth 1 billion when he died...  (aside: his mira vista ranch giant HQ house is (or was) 3 miles inside the boundary of the smokehouse creek fire)

he died before NIL so he probably didn't think to fund bags for stillwater in perpetuity

 

warren buffet started at wharton but got his undergrad at corn age 19

today, he is the 7th richest man in the world with a net worth of 136 billion

if he wanted to, he could fund corn bags for 1000 years

corn ain't dead, yet

['stache 21,795]

I mean, they've been irrelevant for 20 years, but Buffet suddenly cares this time around?

[Guest]

18 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I’ll give Tech credit. They’re consistent. When they knew it was over with aggy and they’d never play them again, they threw shit in the aggy team bus. When they figured out Texas hoops would never again set foot again in Lubbock, they threw shit on the court. 

False.

Aggy did their own shit to the bus.  It’s another layer of what makes aggy who they are…liars..

[closetojumping 62,549]

9 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

boone pickens was worth 1 billion when he died...  (aside: his mira vista ranch giant HQ house is (or was) 3 miles inside the boundary of the smokehouse creek fire)

he died before NIL so he probably didn't think to fund bags for stillwater in perpetuity

 

warren buffet started at wharton but got his undergrad at corn age 19

today, he is the 7th richest man in the world with a net worth of 136 billion

if he wanted to, he could fund corn bags for 1000 years

corn ain't dead, yet

Dead guys don't leave their money to NIL programs or even athletic departments. Knight won't. Pickens didn't. Buffett has never given a shit. They want their names on buildings, bridges, parks, etc. NIL is relevant only for the living.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,176]

On 2/23/2024 at 12:52 PM, Frank Drebin said:

Utah is public.  

TCU is guess is technically somehow affiliated with the Disciples of Christ.  But barely.

Baylor and BYU are the only real religious schools in the Big 12.

Any school w/ "Christian" in its name is a religious school.  

[PvilleStang 2,875]

Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

Any school w/ "Christian" in its name is a religious school.  

Except TCU.  They've pretty much dropped all the Christianity parts of their education long ago.

[DigglerontheHoof 21,176]

15 minutes ago, PvilleStang said:

Except TCU.  They've pretty much dropped all the Christianity parts of their education long ago.

They should rename it Texas Cowtown University, then. 

[Hagbard Celine 10,850]

how about Texas Co-Ed University?

 

first row middle blue

those are real and spectacular

['stache 21,795]

I think SMU won their lawsuit to disassociate from the church. I don't know how the theology school operates now or if it is still affiliated in that limited context. Never really cared. When I attended SMU the only way you could discern a religious connection was that classes were off on Good Friday.

Edited February 29 by 'stache

[Al_4_ISU 12,451]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I mean, they've been irrelevant for 20 years, but Buffet suddenly cares this time around?

Exactly.

Nebraska's history is meaningless to anyone under the age of 35.  Nebraska has a lot of resources and a great fanbase.  So do a lot of schools.  Any other blue blood that had a rough period recently before a major revival (Texas and Michigan come to mind) were A) relevant much more recently than Nebraska and B) have more inherent advantages.  Nebraska could and likely will pick themselves up off the mat, but they aren't going back to the days of Tom Osborne beating the shit out of the Big 8 and playing OU to go to the Orange Bowl.  Not unless a bunch of other programs that are currently doing much better crater for awhile at the same time.  Their current ceiling is 8-10 wins and needing a down year for the rest of the Big 10 to make the playoffs.

There are very few programs that will be capable of winning national titles in the next decade.  Nebraska isn't one of them, and like much of the Big 10 are frankly more similar to the Big 12 and ACC schools at this point in time than they are to the schools who are capable of winning a natty.  

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,177]

5 hours ago, Deej said:

You'll have more eyes in the stands than on the TV broadcasts.

In all fairness, the entire fan base will be at the game and not at home to turn on the TV...unless they're smart and turn the TV on before they leave to make it look like someone cares.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,177]

3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep.  Back in the day, HUGE rivals in both football, and then later basketball - anyone remember the old "strollin' Nolan" days?

I remember as a kid seeing Arky win the title in basketball, but had no clue they were rivals. Even when we played them in the early 2000s, they were just another team I hoped we kicked the shit out of, until that hillbilly Matt Jones just haaaaad to fucking break my heart. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12,177]

1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

how about Texas Co-Ed University?

 

first row middle blue

those are real and spectacular

God damn they have some of the best talent in college. Top 5, imo. 

[thunderlounge 7,813]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I wasn’t putting them on that level.  I was saying they’re at a level I can’t see Nebraska reaching.

 

All Nebraska would have to do is cover up some kiddie rape. That’d catch em up pretty quick. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Nebraska's history is meaningless to anyone under the age of 35.

I’m over that and it’s still meaningless. Not that I’m unaware of them, it’s Nebraska and don’t fucking care.

They're a doormat. And a ragged one at that. 

[Frank Drebin 5,655]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

I think SMU won their lawsuit to disassociate from the church. I don't know how the theology school operates now or if it is still affiliated in that limited context. Never really cared. When I attended SMU the only way you could discern a religious connection was that classes were off on Good Friday.

SMU won at the trial court.  Local friend judge who ignored the law.  SMU got absolutely bitch slapped by the Dallas Court of Appeals last July.  Once the Texas Supreme Court denies SMU's petition for review, SMU's attempt to disaffiliate is pretty much dead in the water.

And yes, you are correct, the church has exercised a very light hand in managing SMU.  Only time they really stepped in was during the cheating scandal in the 80s.  But the Methodist Church (or to be more precise, the South Central Jurisdictional Conference of the UMC), owns, controls, and manages SMU.  Elects board.  Can remove and replace board.  Has right to veto any sale or lease of campus property.  And has a whole host of rights to control SMU.  They just rarely choose to exercise a heavy hand.

[statsman 5,450]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Exactly.

Nebraska's history is meaningless to anyone under the age of 35.  Nebraska has a lot of resources and a great fanbase.  So do a lot of schools.  Any other blue blood that had a rough period recently before a major revival (Texas and Michigan come to mind) were A) relevant much more recently than Nebraska and B) have more inherent advantages.  Nebraska could and likely will pick themselves up off the mat, but they aren't going back to the days of Tom Osborne beating the shit out of the Big 8 and playing OU to go to the Orange Bowl.  Not unless a bunch of other programs that are currently doing much better crater for awhile at the same time.  Their current ceiling is 8-10 wins and needing a down year for the rest of the Big 10 to make the playoffs.

There are very few programs that will be capable of winning national titles in the next decade.  Nebraska isn't one of them, and like much of the Big 10 are frankly more similar to the Big 12 and ACC schools at this point in time than they are to the schools who are capable of winning a natty.  

Matt Rhule is a good hire, if they let him work on a B12 development cycle, I.e., do a great job of scouting athletes, use redshirts (and not) to get a promising group of athletes paced together, play them early and fight through a couple of 5-7 and 6-6 years, and then make a run when they’re developed. Wadlingtonpodcasted how Rhule, at BU, recruited a bunch of three stars with high SPARQ scores, meaning they’re great athletes, but haven’t learned to play. He put in the time to develop them, and gave Baylor its best year ever. 
 
He cashed that in on a NFL job, and is now at NU. Are they ready to be competitive every third year or so, now? It depends on how they perceive themselves now. 

[TKthunder2 4,985]

5 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

They should rename it Texas Cowtown University, then. 

Seriously always thought that if they wanted to get away from the religious label then they should consider renaming to Texas Common University.

Edited March 1 by TKthunder2

[89Horn 1,513]

Whatever the last game we have against  the remains, I imagine I’ll feel like this once it’s over.  I hope it’s Iowa State or West Virginia giving the Charlie Sheen raised arm response like “Fucking Texas, they got out of this hell.”