Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[JFKFC 4,878]

55 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

U of H is fired up about being in the big12.

[billfromlaketravis 11,358]

Bruce Feldman and Stewart Mandel had a Big 12 centric podcast about a month back. 
 

They think Baylor emerges as the dominant team after Texas and OU leave. Unfortunately, I think they’re right. 

[thunderlounge 7,752]

55 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Bruce Feldman and Stewart Mandel had a Big 12 centric podcast about a month back. 
 

They think Baylor emerges as the dominant team after Texas and OU leave. Unfortunately, I think they’re right. 

Well they have already proven that they’re willing to sleep with anyone, consensual or not. 

[Ignatius 4,000]

On 6/10/2022 at 2:58 PM, Gidnik said:

UCF doesnt even have a god damn parking lot for the stadium 😂

 

Unless shit has changed since 2007 they definitely have a parking lot and it’s a big fucking dirt and gravel pile of shit that turns into a mud pit when a fuckkng lightning storm dumps water on it for 2 hours….

[FartingDreamer 138]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:26 AM, mdmost said:

I'll add this to my above statements. I'd like to get out of the Big 12 but I really hope we take a step forward this season and then just kick the shit out of everyone in 2023. Lots of scores to settle especially with the fake religious types up 35. And let's kick BYU's ass on the way out. 

After 2013/2014, I'd imagine the taste for revenge is still strong for UT fans.  

On 6/10/2022 at 2:11 PM, DFW Horn said:

I don't know how you bet against BYU shaking up the Big 12 with walk-ons on scholarship and grown men/missionaries filling out their roster.

In 2012, they lowered the age of mission eligibility from 19 to 18, so that age gap has narrowed somewhat and our teams are younger on average.  

On 6/10/2022 at 2:37 PM, DFW Horn said:

Our last two performances against them in 2013-14 probably skewed my opinion of BYU. I still think they'll be in contention for Big 12 titles, along with OSU, UCF, and maybe Cincy. League should be wide open.

http://www.winsipedia.com/texas/vs/byu

The parity and quality of these competitive programs should make each season fun and interesting.  

On 6/10/2022 at 4:24 PM, SimonBolivar said:

They looked pretty good last year, but certainly looked like they were 2 or 3 steps slower than BU at most positions outside of WR. I think they might struggle a bit against teams like TCU and oSu that usually are fast as hell.

It won't be an easy transition but we have been recruiting an unusual amount of speed that we don't typically get.  This past class was our fastest class ever and the 2023 class is shaping up to be very fast as well.  And that's not including the new inroads we'll be making into Texas, Florida and possibly Ohio.  

Edited June 12, 2022 by FartingDreamer

[thunderlounge 7,752]

5 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

After 2013/2014, I'd imagine the taste for revenge is still strong for UT fans.  

In 2012, they lowered the age of mission eligibility from 19 to 18, so that age gap has narrowed somewhat and our teams are younger on average.  

The parity and quality of these competitive programs should make each season fun and interesting.  

It won't be an easy transition but we have been recruiting an unusual amount of speed that we don't typically get.  This past class was our fastest class ever and the 2023 class is shaping up to be very fast as well.  And that's not including the new inroads we'll be making into Texas, Florida and possibly Ohio.  

 

[Big Frog II 511]

We know we won't be in the same neighborhood as the SEC or Big 10.  We just need to stay around The Pac-12 and ACC in revenue.  Frankly, I would not be surprised to see the best of the Pac 12 reach out to the Big 10.  That may allow us to take the best of the rest.

[camel at sea 589]

1 hour ago, Big Frog II said:

We know we won't be in the same neighborhood as the SEC or Big 10.  We just need to stay around The Pac-12 and ACC in revenue.  Frankly, I would not be surprised to see the best of the Pac 12 reach out to the Big 10.  That may allow us to take the best of the rest.

Yeah.  The new Big 12 + Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, and the Buffs would be pretty entertaining.  

[Gidnik 3,251]

Nothing about the big12 will be entertaining after us and oklahoma leave. That’s why we are leaving. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

If the Big 12 gets to keep some kind of guaranteed access in an expanded playoff and UT/OU get the prestigious home games they crave, I think everyone will be happier going forward. UTOU get the prestige home slate and the Big 12 isn’t sitting around waiting for someone to pull the rug out from under it.

I think that gets to the core of what all parties really want.

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

On 6/11/2022 at 1:04 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

Bruce Feldman and Stewart Mandel had a Big 12 centric podcast about a month back. 
 

They think Baylor emerges as the dominant team after Texas and OU leave. Unfortunately, I think they’re right. 

Meh.

I don’t think there will be a dominant team… certainly not in the way that OU has dominated the league.

I’d say that a “tier” system will likely emerge based on recent success, fan support, proximity to recruits, facilities/infrastructure, etc.

Based on those factors, OSU and Baylor are the likely at the top of the league from the get go. BYU, Tech, TCU, WVU, K-State, and Iowa State all have potential to be great but other factors that could hold them back. Then of course there’s Kansas, lol.

Houston and Cincy are TBD IMO. They both have certain pluses and minues but I think they may find, like TCU did, that it takes a few years getting your feet under yourself jumping from G5 to P5.  It’s one thing to gear up for 1 or 2 games a year and then cruise through the rest of your league… and it’s not like the new Big 12 has tons of bluebloods, but stringing together 4-5 games in a row against, say, OSU, Baylor, K-State, TCU and WVU is something different than playing Temple, Tulane, East Carolina, Tulsa and Navy.

[statsman 5,418]

There will be a premiere league of 30-40 schools. The Big XII will be division 1 with the PAC remnants and ACC. Division 2 will have the current G5 schools. 
 
A lot of the bitter Big XII schools don’t get this- things have changed. In college football, unlike every other league, there is no salary cap. Also, there is no league in the world with more freedom for players to move. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by statsman

[camel at sea 589]

20 hours ago, statsman said:

There will be a premiere league of 30-40 schools. The Big XII will be division 1 with the PAC remnants and ACC. Division 2 will have the current G5 schools. 
 
A lot of the bitter Big XII schools don’t get this- things have changed. In college football, unlike every other league, there is no salary cap. Also, there is no league in the world with more freedom for players to move. 

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for 30-40 schools to split off officially.  The people who push that idea have the idea that the casual fans will keep watching, no matter what, but I'm not that sure.  A lot of the casuals are fans of schools who actually get to be in the top tier but don't ever win anything in the top tier.  What incentive do fans of the schools who get excluded from the premier league have to watch CFB if their school isn't at the highest level anymore? 

It makes a lot more sense to me for there to be unofficial tiers.  The SEC and Big Ten can be the only two leagues with the financial resources to win titles, while still giving schools in the Big 12, PAC, and ACC the illusion of opportunity.  It's not that different than how the P5 treats the G5 now.  Every so often a team from one of those weaker leagues will get close enough to give hope to all the others.  That will keep their fans turning out, investing in their programs, etc.  

[tx ind 6,997]

Need to introduce relegation if it goes to 30-40 schools in the top league.  No one gives a shit about Vandy, Kentucky,Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland football etc....

[Deej 76,531]

38 minutes ago, tx ind said:

Need to introduce relegation if it goes to 30-40 schools in the top league.  No one gives a shit about Vandy, Kentucky,Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland football etc....

Or aggy

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

51 minutes ago, tx ind said:

Need to introduce relegation if it goes to 30-40 schools in the top league.  No one gives a shit about Vandy, Kentucky,Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland football etc....

This is honestly the part about all of this that pisses me off the most. There are tons of schools that get automatic seats at the “big table” just because they were lucky enough to be geographically located in one of the two conferences that happened to end up being the bellcows. 

Never mind that they are historically and currently shitty.  If we really are going to Prestige Worldwide, why not just grab the 40-50 best programs, regardless of geography or historical affiliation with a given conference? And then, yeah, introduce relegation and you’ll have the best 50 programs that are committed to wining at football in the top division. 

[oldhorn2 430]

5 hours ago, camel at sea said:

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for 30-40 schools to split off officially.  The people who push that idea have the idea that the casual fans will keep watching, no matter what, but I'm not that sure.  A lot of the casuals are fans of schools who actually get to be in the top tier but don't ever win anything in the top tier.  What incentive do fans of the schools who get excluded from the premier league have to watch CFB if their school isn't at the highest level anymore? 

It makes a lot more sense to me for there to be unofficial tiers.  The SEC and Big Ten can be the only two leagues with the financial resources to win titles, while still giving schools in the Big 12, PAC, and ACC the illusion of opportunity.  It's not that different than how the P5 treats the G5 now.  Every so often a team from one of those weaker leagues will get close enough to give hope to all the others.  That will keep their fans turning out, investing in their programs, etc.  

Well....this is total bullshit! I grew up watching an NAIA school dominate the NAIA every year and I guarantee their fans didn't give a rats ass about the big stage.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, camel at sea said:

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for 30-40 schools to split off officially.  The people who push that idea have the idea that the casual fans will keep watching, no matter what, but I'm not that sure.  A lot of the casuals are fans of schools who actually get to be in the top tier but don't ever win anything in the top tier.  What incentive do fans of the schools who get excluded from the premier league have to watch CFB if their school isn't at the highest level anymore? 

It makes a lot more sense to me for there to be unofficial tiers.  The SEC and Big Ten can be the only two leagues with the financial resources to win titles, while still giving schools in the Big 12, PAC, and ACC the illusion of opportunity.  It's not that different than how the P5 treats the G5 now.  Every so often a team from one of those weaker leagues will get close enough to give hope to all the others.  That will keep their fans turning out, investing in their programs, etc.  

I haven't stopped yet and it's already stupid.

[Gidnik 3,251]

how shit is the big 12? according to this dude complete.

 

Fanbase_Sizes-DRAFTv1.pdf

[Gidnik 3,251]

[Okie State 3,788]

You don't have to convince anyone the Big XII is shit. You guys already left and none of the rest of us have any other options.

[statsman 5,418]

So, WVU, TT and OSU are the new flag bearers?

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

The fanbase size doesn't take general interest level into account at all.

Mizzou is showing a big fanbase, but people in Missouri do not give a fuck about Mizzou unless they're really good.  Look at UConn and Rutgers in that top 50.  Sure, a bunch of people in New Jersey and Connecticut would ID those schools as their favorite college teams, but the level of engagement is abysmal.  

I also have a hard time believing that KSU has a larger fanbase than KU, especially when you account for basketball.

[Slacks 6,791]

On 6/11/2022 at 11:43 AM, billfromlaketravis said:

Matt Thomas sock confirmed. 

Good morning, Strippers!

[statsman 5,418]

25 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The fanbase size doesn't take general interest level into account at all.

Mizzou is showing a big fanbase, but people in Missouri do not give a fuck about Mizzou unless they're really good.  Look at UConn and Rutgers in that top 50.  Sure, a bunch of people in New Jersey and Connecticut would ID those schools as their favorite college teams, but the level of engagement is abysmal.  

I also have a hard time believing that KSU has a larger fanbase than KU, especially when you account for basketball.

For a metric, I like to multiply football attendance by average ticket (market) price, including donations. That captures breadth and depth. 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, tx ind said:

Need to introduce relegation if it goes to 30-40 schools in the top league.  No one gives a shit about Vandy, Kentucky,Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland football etc....

SEC has two teams for relegation already?  But they so good!!!

LOLz.  

and yeah, SEC is the best Conference.  The thought of them giving up any cupcakes is funny though.

Edited June 14, 2022 by slorch

[BurntOrange&White 39,587]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

SEC has two teams for relegation already?  But they so good!!!

LOLz.  

I think you're going to want Vandy, Kentucky, Indiana, and Maryland as complete athletic programs though.....

Once football breaks it's only a matter of time before CWS and March Madness break as well.

 

I don't think it will be 30-40 but more like 60ish

Edited June 14, 2022 by BurntOrange&White

[thunderlounge 7,752]

8 hours ago, Gidnik said:

 

So if Texas has 7.82M fans, and the B12 has a combined 11.6M fans, looks like a 2/3 majority to me.

 

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Mizzou is showing a big fanbase, but people in Missouri do not give a fuck about Mizzou unless they're really good.

 

You don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about here. Those dumb fucks are as bad and as delusional as aggy.

Their tears are bitter, sweet, delectable treats.

 

And they suck. 

[Vertigo 20,265]

1 hour ago, statsman said:

So, WVU, TT and OSU are the new flag bearers?

That tracks, although I am a bit surprised that WVU is at the top from a numbers standpoint. UCF and UH could see big upticks over time if they are successful on the field for any extended period. Other than that, I think the conference is fairly well set. And remember, that is our fanbase after a decade of the worst play in our history. Once we start winning again we are right up there with tOSU. 

['stache 21,745]

Wow, cool charts bro. We all know who the blue bloods are and who the next tier is, we don't need some idiot on a computer to draw it out. The new Big XII has smaller fan bases but will do fine in ratings, comfortably among the PAC and ACC. The money difference will be big. What are we arguing about again?

[Gidnik 3,251]

16 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

 

So if Texas has 7.82M fans, and the B12 has a combined 11.6M fans, looks like a 2/3 majority to me.

 

 

the 11.6 is after Texas and oklahoma leave. 

[Gidnik 3,251]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Wow, cool charts bro. We all know who the blue bloods are and who the next tier is, we don't need some idiot on a computer to draw it out. The new Big XII has smaller fan bases but will do fine in ratings, comfortably among the PAC and ACC. The money difference will be big. What are we arguing about again?

nobody is arguing about anything. 

[Okie State 3,788]

Love me some good waterfall charts.

['stache 21,745]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The fanbase size doesn't take general interest level into account at all.

Mizzou is showing a big fanbase, but people in Missouri do not give a fuck about Mizzou unless they're really good.  Look at UConn and Rutgers in that top 50.  Sure, a bunch of people in New Jersey and Connecticut would ID those schools as their favorite college teams, but the level of engagement is abysmal.  

I also have a hard time believing that KSU has a larger fanbase than KU, especially when you account for basketball.

OU is a pretty good example of this, their "fan base size" is smaller than one might expect, but their viewership is stronger than whatever number that chart is supposed to represent. I guess they don't have a metric to measure toothless trailer trash who mortgage their single wide's to pay for their one pay-per-view game each year against directional louisiana college for the physically limited.

Edited June 14, 2022 by 'stache

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

50 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

 

So if Texas has 7.82M fans, and the B12 has a combined 11.6M fans, looks like a 2/3 majority to me.

 

 

You don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about here. Those dumb fucks are as bad and as delusional as aggy.

Their tears are bitter, sweet, delectable treats.

 

And they suck. 

I dunno, I think I have a pretty decent comprehension of Missouri.  They're as fair weather as it gets.  Delusional as Aggy is, they always turn out.

Mizzou is one of those fanbases that's get into when they're good, and as soon as they suck they say shit like "well, the Chiefs are just way more important than college sports".

[thunderlounge 7,752]

17 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I dunno, I think I have a pretty decent comprehension of Missouri.  They're as fair weather as it gets.  Delusional as Aggy is, they always turn out.

Mizzou is one of those fanbases that's get into when they're good, and as soon as they suck they say shit like "well, the Chiefs are just way more important than college sports".

You’re making it way worse. Just stop already. You’re way out of your environment here to be calling others. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

[JFKFC 4,878]

11 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

More people than i expected for Mizzou football. 

[Okie State 3,788]

All I know is the Mizzou fans who would come to Stillwater kind of sucked. Talked a lot of shit for being so mediocre.

[utee94 15,745]

I'm not sure I've ever even met a Missouri fan in real life.

For the past ten years, when talking about the schools that left the B12, I always forgot about Missouri.  I remember corn, ags, and buffs, but then draw blank on which was the 4th school.

 

[thunderlounge 7,752]

1 hour ago, Okie State said:

All I know is the Mizzou fans who would come to Stillwater kind of sucked. Talked a lot of shit for being so mediocre.

Now we’re getting somewhere. 
 

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You still don’t get it. A stadium pic of that shithole does no good. That doesn’t make their rollercoaster any better. 
 

Their hopes get so high, then their junk gets well kicked. Blind delusion.

 

They suck. Very much so. But they aren’t fair weather or casual interest by any means. 
 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

I don't think you get it.

That pic is Exhibit A in the case of Fairweather Fandom.  Unless you have a very different definition of the term.

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

22 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I'm not sure I've ever even met a Missouri fan in real life.

For the past ten years, when talking about the schools that left the B12, I always forgot about Missouri.  I remember corn, ags, and buffs, but then draw blank on which was the 4th school.

 

You aren't missing anything.

[Pato del Muerto 52,338]

21 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I'm not sure I've ever even met a Missouri fan in real life.

For the past ten years, when talking about the schools that left the B12, I always forgot about Missouri.  I remember corn, ags, and buffs, but then draw blank on which was the 4th school.

 

I know one. He’s an alum. We went to the 2008 football game at DKR together. He enjoyed the pregame tailgating. 

[FartingDreamer 138]

I think the new Big 12 is going to be just fine.   The competitiveness of the conference should draw a lot of interest compared to the Pac 12 and ACC.  

[Nivek 16,844]

I know one. He’s an alum. We went to the 2008 football game at DKR together. He enjoyed the pregame tailgating. 

My in-laws are Mizzou alumni. We went to that game together as well. And the bowl game. Mizzou fans are fine. The few I know understand reality just fine. One of them quotes Dodds worst season at Texas > best season at Mizzou line. And he agrees with our late AD.

[thunderlounge 7,752]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I don't think you get it.

That pic is Exhibit A in the case of Fairweather Fandom.  Unless you have a very different definition of the term.

No, a stupid fucking pic like that doesn't mean shit.

They aren't hardcore stupid fucks, just stupid fucks. That's it. There is no fair weather to it. We're talking their fans at large, not some little god damn pic from the toilet at providence and stadium. Fuck them.

Mizzou sucks. Period. Yet they never see the world.

No go back to walking around and stick to the town you know, not one you fucking think you know.

[Okie State 3,788]

This is such a weird argument. Surly gonna Surly.

[clapclapclap 9,000]

15 hours ago, Gidnik said:

While obviously SEC and B1G schools mostly have much bigger fanbases than B12 leftovers and replacements, most of those graphs and numbers are based on some unscientific, and frankly laughable, online and other measuring attempts by the NY Times.

They've been discussed in various threads over the years, and failed vetting each time.  The view from 10,000 feet is correct, the numbers are unverifiable and subject to (up to heavy) manipulation.

[closetojumping 62,179]

dp

Edited June 14, 2022 by closetojumping