Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[Guest]

Best seats for UTEP don't even count in those figures, right?

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

2 hours ago, nnm said:

This just isn’t true. 

 

Have you actually watched any of those games and seen the stands? Maybe 50% of the Frog fans were under the bleachers or something. 

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

TCU doesn't have a very good fanbase.  It's the biggest thing holding them back.

If they start to be a Top 3 team perennially in the new Big 12, you'd think they might be able to pull some of the casual DFW fans in, but as for now they have a long ways to go.

When we went to Amon Carter in 2012, my buddy remarked "Big 12 stadium, Mountain West fanbase".

[nnm 37906]

5 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Have you actually watched any of those games and seen the stands? Maybe 50% of the Frog fans were under the bleachers or something. 

I went to the games. Every game from OUsux on was full. Some very small patches of empty in the upper corners. B12 CCG was full too, both teams represented well. 

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

1 minute ago, nnm said:

I went to the games. Every game from OUsux on was full. Some very small patches of empty in the upper corners. B12 CCG was full too, both teams represented well. 

1/3 of their home games were before that. Patches of empty seats in the other 2/3 isn’t how you get to 101% capacity. 
 

ISU tickets were widely available below face. 

[redswingline 1124]

2 hours ago, nnm said:

This just isn’t true. 

 

It may not be not true, but we should not confuse the casual football fan with being a TCU fan.

People like winners and when a team is winning, they pick up more of these viewers. Your TV graph is a prime example of that.

Where was TCU last year? Let's take a look.

 

 

 

[statsman 5693]

I used to have TCU season tickets, as a hedge against scarcity for Texas-TCU games. I kept the Texas game tix and sold the rest on StubHub. If TCU was good, I broke even. If TCU was average or worse, I lost money, because nobody is buying tickets to see a 7-5 TCU play KSU. 

[nnm 37906]

No one will ever confuse TCU with Big State U with their hundreds of thousands of tshirt fans. It’s a small private school with like 80,000 living alumni. It’ll never pull attendance, TV, or merchandise numbers like Big State U. 
But when the team wins, the community gets on board and people watch. As they have this year. 

[SimonBolivar 11064]

2 minutes ago, nnm said:

No one will ever confuse TCU with Big State U with their hundreds of thousands of tshirt fans. It’s a small private school with like 80,000 living alumni. It’ll never pull attendance, TV, or merchandise numbers like Big State U. 
But when the team wins, the community gets on board and people watch. As they have this year. 

Yeah TCU is just so much smaller than the other B12 schools, so relatively they do a great job especially on TV.

 

UCF 71,948

Cincinnati 47,914

Houston 47,090

Tech 40,666

BYU 34,737

ISU 30,708

KU 27,685

WVU 25,474

oSu 24,660

BU 20,626

KSU 20,229

TCU 11,938

 

 

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

10 minutes ago, nnm said:

No one will ever confuse TCU with Big State U with their hundreds of thousands of tshirt fans. It’s a small private school with like 80,000 living alumni. It’ll never pull attendance, TV, or merchandise numbers like Big State U. 
But when the team wins, the community gets on board and people watch. As they have this year. 

I thought “t-shirt fans” were non-graduate hangers-on. It’s entirely possible I misunderstand the term, though. 
 

Lotta people in DFW to crowd a bandwagon, at least on TV.

[nnm 37906]

16 minutes ago, statsman said:

I used to have TCU season tickets, as a hedge against scarcity for Texas-TCU games. I kept the Texas game tix and sold the rest on StubHub. If TCU was good, I broke even. If TCU was average or worse, I lost money, because nobody is buying tickets to see a 7-5 TCU play KSU. 

It will be very interesting to see what happens to TCU’s season tix numbers after OUsux and UT leave. I suspect that there is a subset of season tix holders that are like you, and won’t renew. 

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

I would not have guessed that A) TCU is half the size of Baylor, and B) KSU is smaller than Baylor at all.

Coincidentally enough, the difference in size between Bill Snyder Family Stadium and Jack Trice is almost identical to the difference in enrollment between ISU and KSU.

That number for UCF is absolutely staggering.  Yeah, I'm guessing a lot of those kids grew up UF and FSU fans, but a playoff appearance or two, and look out.

[SimonBolivar 11064]

13 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I would not have guessed that A) TCU is half the size of Baylor, and B) KSU is smaller than Baylor at all.

 

It's a bit disingenuous for sports purposes as Baylor has more than 3 times the graduate population than TCU has (Baylor went for R1) which aren't generally big sports supporters, but overall enrollment is staggeringly different for two schools that are viewed similarly (size wise at least).

Edited December 7, 2022 by SimonBolivar

[nnm 37906]

1 hour ago, Doc Daneeka said:

I thought “t-shirt fans” were non-graduate hangers-on. It’s entirely possible I misunderstand the term, though. 
 

Lotta people in DFW to crowd a bandwagon, at least on TV.

No, you’re right, “t-shirt fan” refers to the non-grad folks who grab their fandom at Walmart. TCU is never going to have as big a segment of them as UT, aggy, or even TTU.
FTW folks do back the frogs (not sure, but I think a big proportion of the BMDs aren’t alums) especially when they’re winning, but not in the droves that you see at Big State U. 

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

1 minute ago, nnm said:

No, you’re right, “t-shirt fan” refers to the non-grad folks who grab their fandom at Walmart. TCU is never going to have as big a segment of them as UT, aggy, or even TTU.
FTW folks do back the frogs (not sure, but I think a big proportion of the BMDs aren’t alums) especially when they’re winning, but not in the droves that you see at Big State U. 

I think we’re pretty much on the same page. People have to squeeze together on the bandwagon when TCU does well. The bigger, traditional powers also see this, but they’re also, afaik, more consistently supportive in between the peaks. 

I get that all schools report tickets sold, so I don’t really mean to call out TCU for doing that. It just has every appearance that a fair chunk of those tickets go unused. Part of that is, undoubtedly, a much smaller secondary market. 

[royiv 9791]

TCU actually went through their season ticket rolls this past off-season and canceled broker accounts and accounts that never attended. Pretty good showing given they took a bunch of accounts off their rolls this year. 

[redswingline 1124]

There's no way Baylor has 20k undergrads.

 

 

[royiv 9791]

5 minutes ago, redswingline said:

There's no way Baylor has 20k undergrads.

 

 

Baylor has a little over 15k undergrads. TCU has a little over 10k.

[redswingline 1124]

8 minutes ago, royiv said:

Baylor has a little over 15k undergrads. TCU has a little over 10k.

15K is believable.

[Deej 77827]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

Baylor has a little over 15k undergrads.

And half of them have to keep their head on a swivel to keep from being raped. 

[Zeus 6864]

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

That's 22, right?

[Huckleberry 34655]

8 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That's 22, right?

XII, XXII, whatever it takes

[oSuJeff97 3439]

11 hours ago, royiv said:

Baylor has a little over 15k undergrads. TCU has a little over 10k.

Yeah it's funny how some of these schools report their enrollment. 

Like OSU has about 35K total enrollment including its Tulsa campus and medical school and other locations, but about 25K in Stillwater.

I assume TCU and Baylor are counting their medical and/or graduate schools in their numbers above?

 

[MirrOlure 15274]

When in the everliving fuck are these cockholes gonna publish the 23 schedule?????

[Big Frog II 522]

18 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

1/3 of their home games were before that. Patches of empty seats in the other 2/3 isn’t how you get to 101% capacity. 
 

ISU tickets were widely available below face. 

It was Thanksgiving weekend and raining.

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

1 minute ago, Big Frog II said:

It was Thanksgiving weekend and raining.

You think that makes it sound better, but it doesn’t. Texas had a relatively (and absolutely) better turnout for Baylor on the same weekend without a CFP berth on the line. 

[Big Frog II 522]

35 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah it's funny how some of these schools report their enrollment. 

Like OSU has about 35K total enrollment including its Tulsa campus and medical school and other locations, but about 25K in Stillwater.

I assume TCU and Baylor are counting their medical and/or graduate schools in their numbers above?

 

TCU has 10,500 undergrads and 1750 grad students.  The new medical school only as 240 students so far.

[royiv 9791]

40 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah it's funny how some of these schools report their enrollment. 

Like OSU has about 35K total enrollment including its Tulsa campus and medical school and other locations, but about 25K in Stillwater.

I assume TCU and Baylor are counting their medical and/or graduate schools in their numbers above?

 

Big Frog answered already, but wanted to add that Baylor College of Medicine is not affiliated with Baylor University. They've been independent of each other for 50ish years.

[FartingDreamer 138]

3 hours ago, MirrOlure said:

When in the everliving fuck are these cockholes gonna publish the 23 schedule?????

Next week.  

 

[SimonBolivar 11064]

3 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Yeah it's funny how some of these schools report their enrollment. 

Like OSU has about 35K total enrollment including its Tulsa campus and medical school and other locations, but about 25K in Stillwater.

I assume TCU and Baylor are counting their medical and/or graduate schools in their numbers above?

 

I believe all of Baylor's 20k are on campus in Waco with the exception of the last 2 years of nursing school in Dallas and whoever is in EMBA in DFW/Austin

[Thiefery 5108]

37 minutes ago, FartingDreamer said:

Next week.  

 

this will come up again in freezing cold takes

[nnm 37906]

3 hours ago, Doc Daneeka said:

You think that makes it sound better, but it doesn’t. Texas had a relatively (and absolutely) better turnout for Baylor on the same weekend without a CFP berth on the line. 

No, I was there.  It was full, top to bottom.  There were a few patches of seats that left, particularly in the 2nd half when it was out of hand and rainy.  But the stadium was full, at least as full as DKR was.  

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

No, I was there.  It was full, top to bottom.  There were a few patches of seats that left, particularly in the 2nd half when it was out of hand and rainy.  But the stadium was full, at least as full as DKR was.  

Even leaving aside the excuse from the other Frog fan, I’ll see if I can get the the pics from the guy who owns the gym I go to.

He decided to treat members who wanted to go. He got 22 tickets in, I think, 4 groups, below face.

[royiv 9791]

59 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Even leaving aside the excuse from the other Frog fan, I’ll see if I can get the the pics from the guy who owns the gym I go to.

He decided to treat members who wanted to go. He got 22 tickets in, I think, 4 groups, below face.

Why does this matter so much to you?

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

3 minutes ago, royiv said:

Why does this matter so much to you?

It doesn’t. I was responding to someone who quoted me. It’s not like I just threw it out there. 
 

why does it matter so much to you to whom I respond?

Edited December 8, 2022 by Doc Daneeka

[MirrOlure 15274]

1 hour ago, FartingDreamer said:

Next week.  

 

What am I missing here?

[royiv 9791]

7 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

It doesn’t. I was responding to someone who quoted me. It’s not like I just threw it out there. 
 

why does it matter so much to you to whom I respond?

Because attendance smack is dumb and you seem awfully wrapped up in it.

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Because attendance smack is dumb and you seem awfully wrapped up in it.

Again, I responded to someone who quoted me. I generally view quotes as a conversation and respond if appropriate. 

If you view the etiquette differently or aren’t interested in the things being said, there are multiple ways to scroll, depending on which device you’re using. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Doc Daneeka

[Bobby Layne 279]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:29 PM, statsman said:

Reality-

In 1920, Oklahoma had eight congressional seats. Kansas had eight. Iowa had eleven. Texas had 18. OK, KS and IA had 50% larger talent pool than Texas. 
 
In 2020, Oklahoma has five. Kansas and Iowa have four. Texas has 36. Texas has almost three times as much talent as the prior noted states. 
 
That is demographic reality. The state of Texas is where the recruits are. Houston is in because the other Big XII schools want games in Texas (especially Houston). 

The fallacy here is context. Gross numbers makes California, New York and Florida “big talent pools”. Florida is. Southern Cali is also. Northern Cali and New York? Not. The real issue is what’s the nature of the pool. Do they have the grit, local support and coaching to excel. Texas has best coaches pool by gross numbers. Raw talent plus coaching breeds excellence. And then there’s that undefinable “something” that makes a gamer! Too much analytics and ignoring or slighting “gamers” are a common mistake at all levels. See (D. J. Lotsa vowels, Chris Simms, etc. here v Max Duggan, Major Applewhite  and Stetson Bennet. I love college football. 

[royiv 9791]

4 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Again, I responded to someone who quoted me. I generally view quotes as a conversation and respond if appropriate. 

if you view the etiquette differently or aren’t interested in the things being said, they are multiple ways to scroll, depending on which device you’re using. 

Let me explain how message boards work. There are these things called threads that have a topic. This is a thread that both of us are posting in. Multiple people are allowed to post in a thread. In fact, that's what makes for a good thread.

You've been wrapped up in the attendance at TCU home games. I posted that attendance smack is dumb. You are free to respond.

Edited December 8, 2022 by royiv

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

Just now, royiv said:

Let me explain how message boards work. There are these things called threads that have a topic. This is a thread that both of us are posting in. Multiple people are allowed to post in a thread. I'm fact, that's what makes for a good thread.

You've been wrapped up in the attendance at TCU home games. I posted that attendance smack is dumb. You are free to respond.

Sure, discussing attendance and the implications regarding support in general in a thread about programs being left behind is dumb. That’s a take, anyway. 

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

Let me explain how message boards work. There are these things called threads that have a topic. This is a thread that both of us are posting in. Multiple people are allowed to post in a thread. In fact, that's what makes for a good thread.
You've been wrapped up in the attendance at TCU home games. I posted that attendance smack is dumb. You are free to respond.

Two of these are unlike the others. Which two aren’t getting left behind?

[royiv 9791]

Just now, Doc Daneeka said:

Sure, discussing attendance and the implications regarding support in general in a thread about programs being left behind is dumb. That’s a take, anyway. 

Okay, I'll bite. I attended every TCU home game this season except for Tarleton State (family are TCU alums). I can tell you that every game was full. I was expecting attendance at the ISU game to be really light since it was a holiday weekend and the students were theoretically gone. To my surprise, the student section was packed. In fact, 75% of their undergrad population was at the game. There were some empty seats in the upper NE corner, but that's the visitor section. The game did clear out early due to crappy weather and it being a blowout. The students set multiple attendance records this season with up to nearly 80% (can't remember exact number) of undergrads in attendance at the K-State night game in October. So for a small school, I think that's a pretty good measure of support. If you want to carry on with dumb attendance smack, carry on. I'm out.

[statsman 5693]

Was attendance so good that they didn’t have to amplify the band through the Jumbotron speakers to get some noise?

[Huckleberry 34655]

Full my ass. Not sure why y'all are blind but here is a shot at kickoff. 

 

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

14 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Full my ass. Not sure why y'all are blind but here is a shot at kickoff. 

 

Those are similar to the ones I got, just a different vantage point. Better than A&M vs. UMass, I’ll give them that much. 

[oSuJeff97 3439]

TCU attendance talk not going away.

[Huckleberry 34655]

Yeah it's a dead horse but the ones responsible for that are the ones who are arguing against reality. It wasn't full, it wasn't close to full, so why are they arguing?

[General Specific 3507]

Yeah it's a dead horse but the ones responsible for that are the ones who are arguing against reality. It wasn't full, it wasn't close to full, so why are they arguing?