Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

5 minutes ago, General Specific said:

I thought we were autonomous collective.

[pacman 7508]

 

Quote

An attorney for the Big 12 on Wednesday asked Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton to block release of communications between Texas Tech and the Big 12 pertaining to the Red Raiders' Nov. 5 football game against TCU.

...

McGuire said the number of plays or questions about rules interpretations his staff sent in for review was "close to 12," which he described as a higher number than usual.

Big 12 joins Tech, asking AG to block release of communications pertaining to TCU game (lubbockonline.com)

Edited December 9, 2022 by pacman

[NoRagrets 1141]

9 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

Next week.  

 

we don’t need you, but we can’t let you leave because we need you. 

[Huckleberry 34658]

9 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

we don’t need you, but we can’t let you leave because we need you. 

He has been a good commissioner so far. If some of his predecessors had been more vocal about that truth (that the Big 12 is and has been a very good and absolutely the deepest conference for decades) we might not be where we are now. 

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

10 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

we don’t need you, but we can’t let you leave because we need you. 

I don't think Brett Yormark is holding up the UT/OU exit at this point.  Seems like it has more to do with the networks.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I don't think Brett Yormark is holding up the UT/OU exit at this point.  Seems like it has more to do with the networks.

He has no reason to let them go early. Every compromise offered to date would be a net loss to the conference.

[LTtxfan 50005]

B12 Schools left behind (excluding Cincy, UH, UCF, BYU) will likely get some money out of early departure of blOU and Texas.

[LTtxfan 50005]

Seems like $16mill given up by each of the "Left Behind Eight" to add  Cincy/UH/BYU/UCF is a big part of this negotiation.  Plus Texas/blOU agreeing to a few games with FOX to compensate them.

 

$16mil x 8 = $128mil.  Guess Texas and blOU will likely pay $64mil a piece.

[RoyalBevo21 939]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Seems like $16mill given up by each of the "Left Behind Eight" to add  Cincy/UH/BYU/UCF is a big part of this negotiation.  Plus Texas/blOU agreeing to a few games with FOX to compensate them.

 

$16mil x 8 = $128mil.  Guess Texas and blOU will likely pay $64mil a piece.

Should write the check tomorrow and gtfo of this dogshit conference. 

[Gidnik 3492]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Seems like $16mill given up by each of the "Left Behind Eight" to add  Cincy/UH/BYU/UCF is a big part of this negotiation.  Plus Texas/blOU agreeing to a few games with FOX to compensate them.

 

$16mil x 8 = $128mil.  Guess Texas and blOU will likely pay $64mil a piece.

id rather stay till 2025 and have a clean break and let the remaining 8 lose that money than give them an out. no pun intended

[Okie State 3889]

I'm good with whatever kills this dumbass thread.

[LTtxfan 50005]

Love frustration from Left Behind B12... 😂

"WILL THEY LEAVE ALREADY"

What is Taking So Long for the Big 12 Schedule to be Released? | Conference Realignment | Big 12

[Hermanator 7674]

I have a bad feeling we're going to regret moving to the SEC. The university wants to act like an academic powerhouse that plays by the rules and the SEC is the last place you should be if you are trying to play by the rules. We aren't aggressive enough for that conference. 

I see a future where the university is content to collect the big checks and doesn't care to do what it takes to win. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Hermanator

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

8 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

I have a bad feeling we're going to regret moving to the SEC. The university wants to act like an academic powerhouse that plays by the rules and the SEC is the last place you should be if you are trying to play by the rules. We aren't aggressive enough for that conference. 

I see a future where the university is content to collect the big checks and doesn't care to do what it takes to win. 

What should Texas being doing more aggressively at the moment?

There’s always the risk, I suppose, of dim bulbs who think tying Syracuse is as good as it gets will be in charge at some point, but that’s not really an SEC-related issue. 

[Thiefery 5108]

9 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

I have a bad feeling we're going to regret moving to the SEC. The university wants to act like an academic powerhouse that plays by the rules and the SEC is the last place you should be if you are trying to play by the rules. We aren't aggressive enough for that conference. 

I see a future where the university is content to collect the big checks and doesn't care to do what it takes to win. 

 

[Nivek 17415]

Should write the check tomorrow and gtfo of this dogshit conference. 

For $1.

[Huckleberry 34658]

6 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

What should Texas being doing more aggressively at the moment?

There’s always the risk, I suppose, of dim bulbs who think tying Syracuse is as good as it gets will be in charge at some point, but that’s not really an SEC-related issue. 

Don't get that dipshit started. Visit the Beard thread if you simply must read his terrible opinions. 

[Doc Daneeka 6793]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Don't get that dipshit started. Visit the Beard thread if you simply must read his terrible opinions. 

Noted. I have enough terrible opinions of my own without wanting to wallow in more as a result of terrible questions. 

[closetohumping 17818]

36 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

I have a bad feeling we're going to regret moving to the SEC. The university wants to act like an academic powerhouse that plays by the rules and the SEC is the last place you should be if you are trying to play by the rules. We aren't aggressive enough for that conference. 

I see a future where the university is content to collect the big checks and doesn't care to do what it takes to win. 

If we wanted to be an academic powerhouse we should definitely leave the big 12.  
 

Uga, uf, aggy and Vandy are all better academically than every non-Texas big 12 school

[DFW Horn 6654]

22 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

If we wanted to be an academic powerhouse we should definitely leave the big 12.  
 

Uga, uf, aggy and Vandy are all better academically than every non-Texas big 12 school

Academics have nothing to do with the SEC move, whatsoever.

Only Nebraska is dumb enough to factor "academic prestige" into their B1G move equation, then promptly get kicked out of the AAU. But, fuck around and find out.

[Saint Austin 776]

3 hours ago, Hermanator said:

I have a bad feeling we're going to regret moving to the SEC. The university wants to act like an academic powerhouse that plays by the rules and the SEC is the last place you should be if you are trying to play by the rules. We aren't aggressive enough for that conference. 

I see a future where the university is content to collect the big checks and doesn't care to do what it takes to win. 

Have you looked at the current schools in the Big 12? We're the best academically in this conference, and it's not even close. Who's the next best, Baylor? Maybe?? And look at the back end: Tech, West Virginia, and soon-to-be Houston? They're not exactly splitting the atom...

 

[TKthunder2 5059]

2 hours ago, Saint Austin said:

Have you looked at the current schools in the Big 12? We're the best academically in this conference, and it's not even close. Who's the next best, Baylor? Maybe?? And look at the back end: Tech, West Virginia, and soon-to-be Houston? They're not exactly splitting the atom...

 

Depends on what metrics you’re really looking at (undergrad, research, quality, doctoral) but after Texas it’s roughly:

Kansas, Oklahoma, Iowa State, Baylor

TCU, Tech, Oklahoma State

K State

West Virginia

[closetohumping 17818]

I guess the dose of reality is on us and ou?  Amirite?

[BrazilHorn 6846]

19 hours ago, Hermanator said:

I have a bad feeling we're going to regret moving to the SEC. The university wants to act like an academic powerhouse that plays by the rules and the SEC is the last place you should be if you are trying to play by the rules. We aren't aggressive enough for that conference. 

I see a future where the university is content to collect the big checks and doesn't care to do what it takes to win. 

There’s a thread in 9.95 where you can give $ to. This $ is for NIL to help secure and keep talent. This helps mitigate the SEC “bag man” deal. 
 

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

10 hours ago, closetohumping said:

I guess the dose of reality is on us and ou?  Amirite?

Probably more OU than you guys.  After the 5th 7-8 win season in a row, the chant and paychecks won't mean much to the fans.  Maybe they'll find more marquee home games to be better than winning, IDK.

OU is in real danger of pulling a Nebraska.  

[closetohumping 17818]

2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Probably more OU than you guys.  After the 5th 7-8 win season in a row, the chant and paychecks won't mean much to the fans.  Maybe they'll find more marquee home games to be better than winning, IDK.

OU is in real danger of pulling a Nebraska.  

I know.  But last year we had a fuck these guys were out of here in 23.  Actually 2022 right?   And here we are.  Still in the big 12 and it looks like till 2024 at the earliest

[ChickenNuggets 1661]

20 hours ago, Hermanator said:

I have a bad feeling we're going to regret moving to the SEC. The university wants to act like an academic powerhouse that plays by the rules and the SEC is the last place you should be if you are trying to play by the rules. We aren't aggressive enough for that conference. 

I see a future where the university is content to collect the big checks and doesn't care to do what it takes to win. 

I disagree... I held that view BEFORE Texas announced the move to the SEC... I thought the uppityups would continue to shift focus towards academics and away from investing in football and we'd become a Stanford or something... The move to the SEC and consolidation of NIL shows we're serious about competing in sports.

[thunderlounge 8412]

30 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

OU is in real danger of pulling a Nebraska.  

and?

[closetohumping 17818]

6 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

and?

They suck

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

6 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

and?

Closetohumping said something about "the dose of reality is on us and OU right?" and I'm saying I think there's a very good chance OU will be get smacked in the face with a dose of reality.

Fans can brag about paychecks and conference prestige, but no one really believes that it's bringing anyone joy from their sports fanhood.  Winning is what does that, and OU is flirting with a lot less winning by joining the SEC.

I think that applies less to you because your issues seem to be more about internal institutional culture and an inability to find a great coach.  Texas will always have the Jimmys and Joes to compete with Bama and Georgia.  And you've already been below your accepted winning levels for a decade or so.  Texas will be back when it gets the right coach, and given your in state talent, it won't really matter who the other guys have.  IMO.

[Nivek 17415]

I disagree... I held that view BEFORE Texas announced the move to the SEC... I thought the uppityups would continue to shift focus towards academics and away from investing in football and we'd become a Stanford or something... The move to the SEC and consolidation of NIL shows we're serious about competing in sports.

No it doesn’t. Texas has long been serious about its academic and athletic performance. Going to the SEC doesn’t change shit. It is a move out of an unstable crappy conference that seems to go out of its way to fuck over one of its pillars who help prop up the conference and drive revenue while simultaneously getting attacked for doing just that. Look how the B12 reacted to Mizzou, Nebraska, Colorado, aggy leaving and contrast that to Texas. Hell it was OU who made the overtures and everyone still blames Texas.

Add in decades of officiating fuckery, and it is a no-brainer to leave. Now landing in the PAC, B10, or SEC became the only options. With USC/UCLA leaving the PAC for the B10, that sort of rules out the PAC as a source of stability.

Want to go play and interact with Ohio State on an semi annual basis?

[Nivek 17415]

Closetohumping said something about "the dose of reality is on us and OU right?" and I'm saying I think there's a very good chance OU will be get smacked in the face with a dose of reality.
Fans can brag about paychecks and conference prestige, but no one really believes that it's bringing anyone joy from their sports fanhood.  Winning is what does that, and OU is flirting with a lot less winning by joining the SEC.
I think that applies less to you because your issues seem to be more about internal institutional culture and an inability to find a great coach.  Texas will always have the Jimmys and Joes to compete with Bama and Georgia.  And you've already been below your accepted winning levels for a decade or so.  Texas will be back when it gets the right coach, and given your in state talent, it won't really matter who the other guys have.  IMO.

I tend to think OU will be fine as well once they go through the coaching churn. Maybe Heupel will return.

[BurntOrange&White 41866]

20 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Don't get that dipshit started. Visit the Beard thread if you simply must read his terrible opinions. 

Probably can't even grow a full beard

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

28 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I tend to think OU will be fine as well once they go through the coaching churn. Maybe Heupel will return.

Maybe.  It’s a crowded trough and they have to feed on out of state guys.

They dominated the 10 team Big 12.  They aren’t going to dominate the 16 team SEC.  And if/when you guys get off the mat it will be that much more discontenting.

[closetohumping 17818]

Ous advantage is Norman is close to Dallas.  But now that they’re in a conference that they likely can’t dominate, I’m not sure how they’ll do in recruiting

['stache 22143]

OU will be fine. There's no real reason for them to be a blueblood except that they bit at the right time (cheated like hell but nobody seemed to care back then). It's a lot easier to recruit when your trophy room has a lot of legit trophys in it. They won't be winning conference titles every year anymore, and I hope like hell they go full aggy and are beat down by the SEC legacy bluebloods, but they are laser focused on winning that foosball at all costs, so I doubt they'll regress too much long term. Vegtables is gonna be rode out of town on a log next season before the SEC move like Homer Stokes in O Brother Where Art Thou.

[Nivek 17415]

3 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Maybe.  It’s a crowded trough and they have to feed on out of state guys.

They dominated the 10 team Big 12.  They aren’t going to dominate the 16 team SEC.  And if/when you guys get off the mat it will be that much more discontenting.

That is fair.  I think Venerables was a bad hire, and I think he will move them in the wrong direction.  However, they have built up enough clout so as to not become some forgotten team, they have a national brand and a neighboring state with more players than 2 schools can take.   They may flounder for a few years though.  Hopefully a few decades.  

 

[Al_4_ISU 12623]

OU’s not going to be actively bad like Nebraska, but they will have more years like last year than they will have conference titles.

['stache 22143]

5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

OU’s not going to be actively bad like Nebraska, but they will have more years like last year than they will have conference titles.

I think they'll have a few but will average around 8-9 wins per year and will win the conference very 5-6 years or so. I really hope I'm wrong, but their infrastructure and history, including recent history, is just too much to think they'll have many 6-6 seasons. They'll pay as well as anyone after next season and pull in a big name head coach.

[closetohumping 17818]

45 minutes ago, 'stache said:

OU will be fine. There's no real reason for them to be a blueblood except that they bit at the right time (cheated like hell but nobody seemed to care back then). It's a lot easier to recruit when your trophy room has a lot of legit trophys in it. They won't be winning conference titles every year anymore, and I hope like hell they go full aggy and are beat down by the SEC legacy bluebloods, but they are laser focused on winning that foosball at all costs, so I doubt they'll regress too much long term. Vegtables is gonna be rode out of town on a log next season before the SEC move like Homer Stokes in O Brother Where Art Thou.

I think they're preseason top 5 again?  I think Venables is in over his head.

[Trojan Man 429]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

I think they'll have a few but will average around 8-9 wins per year and will win the conference very 5-6 years or so. I really hope I'm wrong, but their infrastructure and history, including recent history, is just too much to think they'll have many 6-6 seasons. They'll pay as well as anyone after next season and pull in a big name head coach.

There's a real chance Oklahoma falls off into Nebraska territory in the SEC.  They're going from a conference where they totally outclass 8/9 league foes in terms of revenue and recruiting potential to a conference where they will be middle of the pack in those metrics.  Alabama, Georgia, Texas, Florida and LSU all surpass OU in these categories and you can make arguments for A&M and Tennessee.  I think it's too early to write off Venables but he has to win at least 9 games next season and not get his ass handed to him in any losses to keep recruiting from falling off.  There is a lag in recruiting results when a program goes from shitty to good or good to shitty, which helped Venables sign a very good 2023 class because OU still had a great reputation with recruits.  A successful program can survive one bad season in year 1 of a new coach's era.  But string together a few 6-7 win seasons and the apple loses its shine.  Once that happens you're just killing time until the coach is fired because there is no recovery after recruiting declines.  If Venables gets fired his replacement will have a steeper hill to climb because he'll be inheriting a struggling program instead of a program recruits know as one that dominates their conference and racks up Heismans.

Oklahoma is praised for their dedication to football but how much of that was just being blessed with coaching stability and not having to take a ride on the coaching carousel in a year beginning with 2 until last year?  Nothing about OU makes them immune to wandering the wilderness.  It can happen to anyone and coaching hires are a crapshoot for everyone.  Tennessee is pretty fucking dedicated to football too and they spent most of the last 20 years being a dumpster fire joke of a program, largely because they didn't have OU's luck with coaching hires and stability.  You don't need much imagination to see OU falling into the same pit Tennessee is finally emerging from.

[thunderlounge 8412]

[Saint Austin 776]

You people are dreaming. As much as I'd love for OU to become a Nebraska-like has-been, they're too close in proximity to the North Texas recruiting hotbeds to become irrelevant for long. Additionally, when Nebraska left for the Big Ten, they abandoned that Texas recruiting pipeline. OU, on the other hand, will not only be able to continue to recruit Texas, but other SEC states more easily now.

[Nivek 17415]

3 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

Oklahoma is praised for their dedication to football but how much of that was just being blessed with coaching stability and not having to take a ride on the coaching carousel in a year beginning with 2 until last year?  Nothing about OU makes them immune to wandering the wilderness.  It can happen to anyone and coaching hires are a crapshoot for everyone.  Tennessee is pretty fucking dedicated to football too and they spent most of the last 20 years being a dumpster fire joke of a program, largely because they didn't have OU's luck with coaching hires and stability.  You don't need much imagination to see OU falling into the same pit Tennessee is finally emerging from.

I think there is a difference between Tennessee and OU, proximity to a talent-rich state.   OU is right next to one.   Tennessee has to get kids from multiple states nearby to support its program and must cast a wider net. 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

1 hour ago, Saint Austin said:

You people are dreaming. As much as I'd love for OU to become a Nebraska-like has-been, they're too close in proximity to the North Texas recruiting hotbeds to become irrelevant for long. Additionally, when Nebraska left for the Big Ten, they abandoned that Texas recruiting pipeline. OU, on the other hand, will not only be able to continue to recruit Texas, but other SEC states more easily now.

They have all of the resources to succeed, but it's entirely possible that Venables sucks and they end up taking a walk through the wilderness for a decade or two trying to find a coach to turn things back around.

[Gidnik 3492]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:02 PM, LTtxfan said:

Love frustration from Left Behind B12... 😂

"WILL THEY LEAVE ALREADY"

What is Taking So Long for the Big 12 Schedule to be Released? | Conference Realignment | Big 12

so basically what this is saying is that they want us to leave to pay them back for them giving the 4 new schools any money at all because the networks werent going to give them any? sounds like a them problem to me. 

 

[RoyalBevo21 939]

3 hours ago, Saint Austin said:

You people are dreaming. As much as I'd love for OU to become a Nebraska-like has-been, they're too close in proximity to the North Texas recruiting hotbeds to become irrelevant for long. Additionally, when Nebraska left for the Big Ten, they abandoned that Texas recruiting pipeline. OU, on the other hand, will not only be able to continue to recruit Texas, but other SEC states more easily now.

Now let's go back to say, 2009. All of these same arguments could be made for Texas, yet here we are. 

[statsman 5693]

Programs have floors and ceilings. Texas is noteworthy for how long it will stay at its floor level. The administration just will just let it go on for years, waiting for the program to pull out, before getting serious and intervening. 
OU is noteworthy for how short a period it will tolerate being at its floor level. Gomer Jones was Bud Wilkinson’s right hand man and hand picked successor, and when he showed in his first two years that he wasn’t up to the job, they moved his ass out (and made a strong run at alum Darrell Royal). Gary Gibbs had some success, but not nearly enough. Schnellenberger needed one year to convince them he wasn’t “it”, so one year was all he got. If Venables goes 6-7 again, I bet it’ll be “thanks and see you later. Next up”. Remember, OU isn’t a college with a football team, it’s a football team with a college. 
Now, I don’t know that OU knows what they got into. In this world, they don’t get to pay their players more than Texas, unless they get a lot more rich booster tout suite. Also, they only get 1-2 games in Texas every year now (assuming they play the Ags annually, and that they don’t schedule other Texas teams). Pretty much every SEC school is going to get 1-4 games in Texas every four years, and they get to pay as much (or more) as OU. They may be  big shark, but they’re in a pool with a lot of big sharks (and Texas may be turning into a killer whale). 

Edited January 28, 2023 by statsman

[Trojan Man 429]

8 hours ago, Saint Austin said:

You people are dreaming. As much as I'd love for OU to become a Nebraska-like has-been, they're too close in proximity to the North Texas recruiting hotbeds to become irrelevant for long. Additionally, when Nebraska left for the Big Ten, they abandoned that Texas recruiting pipeline. OU, on the other hand, will not only be able to continue to recruit Texas, but other SEC states more easily now.

 

6 hours ago, Nivek said:

I think there is a difference between Tennessee and OU, proximity to a talent-rich state.   OU is right next to one.   Tennessee has to get kids from multiple states nearby to support its program and must cast a wider net. 

I don't think it's written in stone Oklahoma will fall off, but it's not a crazy one in a million kind of outcome either.  Like I said, it's possible Venables ends up being a good coach who just had a rough first year.  Kirby Smart went 8-5 in year 1 at Georgia, including losses to Vanderbilt and Georgia Tech and a blowout loss to Ole Miss.  If the wheels don't fall off the schooner again in 2023 Venables should be able to land another strong class.  Stacking up top 5-10 classes is 80% of the job.  It's also possible he's the next coming of Will Muschamp, which means OU would have to nail the next hire because chaining together multiple bad hires is how you get lost in the wilderness.  Being forced into another coaching change in their last Big 12 year or their first SEC year will make transitioning conferences that much harder for them.

Oklahoma has a better recruiting situation than Nebraska.  They will also be in a conference where half the teams in it reasonably expect to recruit at a top 10 level every year, which nullifies that recruiting advantage.  Being a football-crazy SEC school with good recruiting isn't a license to success.  Florida is a dedicated SEC school that doesn't have to survive on out of state recruiting.  They haven't made the playoff yet, they haven't won their conference in 15 years and the one year they were in the CFP conversation late in the season was the joke 2020 season.  Oklahoma's better recruiting might give them a floor of 7-8 wins instead of Nebraska's floor of 3-4 wins, but you need a top 10 coach to consistently surpass that level in the SEC.

[JFKFC 4978]

6 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

Like I said, it's possible Venables ends up being a good coach who just had a rough first year