Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[DFW Horn 6671]

 

['stache 22148]

2 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

OK. Miami at UNC or OK State at Texas Tech. Which game gets top billing? 

Depends on rankings, which is an indication that they are similar from a program perspective. If Miami/UNC are both unranked and OKST/Tech are both ranked (or if even one is ranked) you seriously believe Miami/UNC has an edge? If Miami were to go on an extended run reminiscent of their past, they might gain back some interest, but they have always been the product of intrigue and hype based on the attitude of their players and coaches, not alumni or other loyalties. Here's TV viewership averages from last season:

24. Oklahoma State — 1.68M

46. North Carolina — 849K

54. Texas Tech — 680K

59. Miami FL— 608K

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbd 

41 minutes ago, camel at sea said:

The ACC game's viewership ceiling is higher.  The Big 12 game's floor is higher.  

Take out Clemson and FSU and I doubt there is much difference on either end. TCU in fact had better average ratings than FSU last year, I assume mostly from late in the season since they went on a MNC run. After that is OKST which had an opposite season, started well, ended in total shit. 

If both conferences were renegotiating this year, I think ACC overall would get paid a little more because of Clemson, FSU, and whatever extend Notre Dame is considered part of the ACC package. Outside that, the conferences are almost identical. 

['stache 22148]

4 hours ago, Crockett said:

Ahem... 

"I asked the former ESPN exec what pushed the conference to the higher end of the scale? He said it was "BYU b/c of their loyal national following. They were the money shot. ... "

I'll go with the former ESPN exec versus Hagbard.

Lol, that's like ESPN also saying nice things about aggy and the "turdition" of the corp, just something you say when everyone is happy. It is truly curious why these hoards of "nationwide" fans aren't tuning in to actually watch the game. Fun fact: Being Mormon does not equate to being a BYU football fan. 

You fit squarely within the new version of the Big 12, no better or worse than the rest of the members. 

38. BYU — 997K

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbd

[TexEx15 17960]

Haha

[tx 3 putt 78779]

 

😂😂😂

[Evil Bill Obrien 3527]

 

I mean if the Big 12 wants to get boots back on the ground in the 512 once Texas is gone I think I know who Yormark should call:

 

 

[LTbear 4219]

On 7/10/2023 at 9:23 AM, statsman said:

For the record-Army was loaded. They recruited players from other schools, saying, “We’re in a war. You may have to fight. If you graduate as a football star from West Point, you will be in a great position. Plus, it’s good for the country for Army football to be good.” That’s how freshman TAMU star Bill Yeoman ended up at West Point. 

Here is what Army did on the way to an undefeated season. 
 
Oct. 13: played 3-1 #9 Michigan at Yankees Stadium. Beat them 28-7. Michigan finished #6. 
 
Oct. 27: played 3-1 #19 Duke at the Polo Ground in NYC. Beat them 48-13. Duke finished #13. 
 
Nov. 10: played 5-0-1 #2 Notre Dame at Yankees Stadium. Beat them 48-0. Notre Dame finished #9. 
 
Nov 17: played 5-1 #6 Penn at Franklin Field. Beat them 61-0. Penn finished #8. 
 
Dec 1: played 7-0-1 #2 Navy at Veterans Stadium. Beat them 32-13. Navy finished #2. 
 
Asking army to submit paperwork to justify a MNC claim for that season is ridiculous and insulting to everyone’s intelligence. 
 
Oklahoma A&M had a nice season. They played a #19 Tulsa at home and won by six points. I don’t think the Cowboys were as good as the Longhorns in 1945. 

That's ridiculously impressive 

[LTbear 4219]

7 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

 

I mean if the Big 12 wants to get boots back on the ground in the 512 once Texas is gone I think I know who Yormark should call:

 

 

Can someone explain to me how Texas State is represented by Richard Nixon on a motorcycle?

[LTtxfan 50038]

4 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

I mean if the Big 12 wants to get boots back on the ground in the 512 once Texas is gone I think I know who Yormark should call:

 

 

If the B12 wants a presence in central Texas, UTSA makes a lot more sense than TxState

[Evil Bill Obrien 3527]

2 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Can someone explain to me how Texas State is represented by Richard Nixon on a motorcycle?

Thats the newish university President Dr Damphousse, not Dick Nixon.

2 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 

If the B12 wants a presence in central Texas, UTSA makes a lot more sense than TxState

Hey now get outta here with that factual mumbo jumbo. Though I would make the argument that while envious of what UTSA has done in such short span, think they are still just 1 bad football coaching hire and a few lean years away from all that melting away back into the city commuter school whenst they came. Interested to see if Traylor sticks around more than a season or two in the AAC if big money from Power conferences comes a knocking.

[Satchel 6983]

37 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Thats the newish university President Dr Damphousse, not Dick Nixon.

Hey now get outta here with that factual mumbo jumbo. Though I would make the argument that while envious of what UTSA has done in such short span, think they are still just 1 bad football coaching hire and a few lean years away from all that melting away back into the city commuter school whenst they came. Interested to see if Traylor sticks around more than a season or two in the AAC if big money from Power conferences comes a knocking.

He’s waiting for the Texas job to open up.

[LTtxfan 50038]

BlueGoldNews.com: Big 12 Media Days 2023 Brett Yormark Opening Statement 7/12/23

[FartingDreamer 138]

5 hours ago, statsman said:

I thought they paid the ACC less because they aren’t required to renegotiate for a while?

Let’s stop talking about attendance in terms of full stadiums,as if that means something. UT has a 100k seat stadium. When Texas is ranked, every league game averages well over $100 per seat. When Texas is ranked and playing another ranked team, it’ll cost you $200 and up per seat to get in. (In 2005, seats against ranked TT cost $150 and up, and that was almost 20 years ago. The next year, if you didn’t have season tix, it would cost you over $500 per seat to get into the stadium against tOSU). 
 
My question is- in the new B12, what are the games where you can’t get into the stadium without paying over $100 per ticket? TCU just played for the MNC and Baylor is on its best 15 year run ever, and they’re rivals, and I still think you get in for $75. Are there any others?

Ticket prices for the OU @ BYU game are starting out at $138 + fees on Stubhub.  

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

Lol, that's like ESPN also saying nice things about aggy and the "turdition" of the corp, just something you say when everyone is happy. It is truly curious why these hoards of "nationwide" fans aren't tuning in to actually watch the game. Fun fact: Being Mormon does not equate to being a BYU football fan. 

You fit squarely within the new version of the Big 12, no better or worse than the rest of the members. 

38. BYU — 997K

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2022-94eca4f6acbd

And that number will go up now that we won't have ho hum matchups with G5's to drag our average down.  And yes, nationwide.  You'd be surprised at how many alumni we have in the different parts of the country as well as other members of the LDS church in those other parts that still tune into games, it's alot more then you think.  Not just a regional brand.

[statsman 5704]

3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

😂😂😂

We are going to get screwed so bad

[Sandman 3435]

4 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

Thursday/Friday night games are the kind of thing people enjoy as long as their team isn't involved. 

I love the thur/fri or 11:00 AM sat game for my team. Then I can fuck off and do whatever I want for most of my Saturday. I hate waiting around till 3 or 7 or God forbid 9.

[statsman 5704]

What was Gundy talking about at the media day? WRT Bedlam ending and what OU or OSU should do? I had assumed that continuing the series just didn’t mean much to either school and that’s why it’s ending. Is that wrong?

[Jasper_Jester 356]

1 hour ago, FartingDreamer said:

Ticket prices for the OU @ BYU game are starting out at $138 + fees on Stubhub.  

 

I think you misunderstood the question. OU games don't count in the new B12.

[statsman 5704]

6 minutes ago, Jasper_Jester said:

I think you misunderstood the question. OU games don't count in the new B12.

Yes. Texas at TCU sells at a premium, too, even when Texas isn’t good. Texas at UH will sell at a premium. McGuire is mouthing off about how good Tech will be; will their games against Baylor pop $75 on StubHub?

Edited July 13, 2023 by statsman

[royiv 9897]

2 hours ago, FartingDreamer said:

Ticket prices for the OU @ BYU game are starting out at $138 + fees on Stubhub.  

And that number will go up now that we won't have ho hum matchups with G5's to drag our average down.  And yes, nationwide.  You'd be surprised at how many alumni we have in the different parts of the country as well as other members of the LDS church in those other parts that still tune into games, it's alot more then you think.  Not just a regional brand.

That independent experiment worked so well.

[Crockett 517]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

That independent experiment worked so well.

Sure did. Compared to staying in the MWC, we made more money, had way more exposure, had better schedules/opponents, and it made the move to the Big 12 easy with no exit fees. And we won the Pac 12 conference in 2021.

[billfromlaketravis 11876]

3 hours ago, statsman said:

What was Gundy talking about at the media day? WRT Bedlam ending and what OU or OSU should do? I had assumed that continuing the series just didn’t mean much to either school and that’s why it’s ending. Is that wrong?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38001397/bedlam-rivalry-oklahoma-history

[billfromlaketravis 11876]

It feels mutual between both parties to end Bedlam. Gundy doesn’t want it and neither does Joe C.

I won’t get into their reasoning. I will say the Big 12 erred in scheduling Bedlam in early November. It should be the final conference regular season game. 

[TKthunder2 5060]

3 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

It feels mutual between both parties to end Bedlam. Gundy doesn’t want it and neither does Joe C.

I won’t get into their reasoning. I will say the Big 12 erred in scheduling Bedlam in early November. It should be the final conference regular season game. 

OU in the next 12 years has an open spot for Okie State and has offered to schedule them. They only have series with Michigan, Nebraska, and Clemson over that same time period. Joe C has been told by Okie State that they don’t want to play it and he doesn’t want to rock the boat.

Oklahoma State has only a single power 5 opponent booked 11 of the next 13 years (ArkansasX4, and home and homes with Bama, Oregon, Nebraska, and Colorado). To their credit they aren’t your regular bullshit opponents, but Gundy doesn’t want to play OU. The series is so lopsided and it has ruined their chances at major bowls multiple times. I understand their position and why they are adamant on blaming OU, but anyone with half a brain can see they are using this to their advantage.

Neither has a power 5 opponent scheduled in 2031. The fact that they didn’t immediately put something on the books tells you everything you need to know.

[billfromlaketravis 11876]

3 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

OU in the next 12 years has an open spot for Okie State and has offered to schedule them. They only have series with Michigan, Nebraska, and Clemson over that same time period. Joe C has been told by Okie State that they don’t want to play it and he doesn’t want to rock the boat.

Oklahoma State has only a single power 5 opponent booked 11 of the next 13 years (ArkansasX4, and home and homes with Bama, Oregon, Nebraska, and Colorado). To their credit they aren’t your regular bullshit opponents, but Gundy doesn’t want to play OU. The series is so lopsided and it has ruined their chances at major bowls multiple times. I understand their position and why they are adamant on blaming OU, but anyone with half a brain can see they are using this to their advantage.

Neither has a power 5 opponent scheduled in 2031. The fact that they didn’t immediately put something on the books tells you everything you need to know.

You said what I didn’t want to. Gundy doesn’t want the game because OU owns his soul and they’ve dealt him some inexplicable/critical losses while he’s been HC. 

[Paul Wesley 3313]

5 hours ago, statsman said:

We are going to get screwed so bad

That was exactly my reaction. 

I'm not sure how it's going to be worse than 14-0 penalty disparities, or worse than Texas and OU watching their edge rushers get tackled without consequence all season... but It seems like when your league commissioner openly celebrates your failures, it's probably going to get worse.  

 

[LateAughtsHorn 588]

2 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

You said what I didn’t want to. Gundy doesn’t want the game because OU owns his soul and they’ve dealt him some inexplicable/critical losses while he’s been HC. 

It never ceases to amaze me how Okie State manages to fold so reliably in that game, no matter what kind of team OU brings in. Last year, it almost looked like they were throwing the game in spots. It makes Mack vs Stoops in the early 2000s look like the 10 Year War. 

[LateAughtsHorn 588]

1 hour ago, Paul Wesley said:

That was exactly my reaction. 

I'm not sure how it's going to be worse than 14-0 penalty disparities, or worse than Texas and OU watching their edge rushers get tackled without consequence all season... but It seems like when your league commissioner openly celebrates your failures, it's probably going to get worse.  

 

I'm really hoping the offense turns out to be as good as we think it can be. Definitely going to need to try to put games away early and "leave no doubt". If we have any Mensa-style single possession battles, I'm fully expecting to get fucked. 

[statsman 5704]

Yep. The formuyfor B12 wins the last couple of years seems to be: get a two score lead in the first half, come out and score again after halftime, and show the refs that it will take some major fuckery to turn the score. 
 
You say- what’s the big deal? Just do that. Problem is that even our best teams in the past needed one or two second half last minute comebacks to win games. That just won’t be an option this year, except maybe against OU. 

[TrashMaster G 18135]

 “The Bedlam game is over because OU chose to leave the Big 12. Do I like that? No,” Gundy said. “All Oklahoma had to do was not go to the SEC.”

 

Gundy must be 50 now, because he's a g'damn genius, I tell ya!

[mdmost 44114]

Yeah, OU should stay in the Big 12, just so they can get that guaranteed win against oSu every year. 

[Deej 77894]

5 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

 “The Bedlam game is over because OU chose to leave the Big 12. Do I like that? No,” Gundy said. “All Oklahoma had to do was not go to the SEC.”

 

Gundy must be 50 now, because he's a g'damn genius, I tell ya!

All OSU had to do was be decent enough to get an invite to another conference. 

[Al_4_ISU 12666]

Has there been a single realignment-ended rivalry that's maintained on a regular basis?  

[Longboard Horn 41402]

The butthurt is strong with this one. K State has lost 6 straight to Texas and Texas also leads the all time series over Iowa State by 10 games. What a fucking tool. Ole boy is just mad because he knows the Big 12 ratings will collapse once Texas and ou leave 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12666]

Just now, Longboard Horn said:

The butthurt is strong with this one. K State has lost 6 straight to Texas and Texas also leads the all time series over Iowa State by 10 games. What a fucking tool. Ole boy is just mad because he knows the Big 12 ratings will collapse once Texas and ou leave 

 

To be fair, there were posters here saying almost the same thing.  Lots of "if we aren't going to win the league, we might as well not win the best league" or something to that effect.  I think to a sizeable portion of Texas and OU fans, the biggest value of this move is in seeing more "name" schools/blue bloods on the schedule.

[mdmost 44114]

It must really chap his ass that Texas is picked to win the Big 12. I hope we firebomb all the fuckers on our schedule. 

[Trojan Man 429]

5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Has there been a single realignment-ended rivalry that's maintained on a regular basis?  

Georgia/Georgia Tech.

2 minutes ago, Longboard Horn said:

The butthurt is strong with this one. K State has lost 6 straight to Texas and Texas also leads the all time series over Iowa State by 10 games. What a fucking tool. Ole boy is just mad because he knows the Big 12 ratings will collapse once Texas and ou leave 

 

He's right.  I've heard the exact same thing said by posters here, that for Texas the SEC move is more about being affiliated with peers than money.  Athletically, Texas has more in common with SEC schools than Big 12 schools.  As for the quality loss angle that is also true and something I have heard from Texas fans.  SEC losses aren't held against teams nearly as much as Big 12 losses are, and I'm anticipating the same thing helping my team.  I'm looking forward to B1G losses being forgiven and shrugged off by the media and voters and the committee as opposed to the scarlet letter nature of Pac 12 losses.

[Longboard Horn 41402]

3 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

To be fair, there were posters here saying almost the same thing.  Lots of "if we aren't going to win the league, we might as well not win the best league" or something to that effect.  I think to a sizeable portion of Texas and OU fans, the biggest value of this move is in seeing more "name" schools/blue bloods on the schedule.

Point taken. However, I for one wish we would continue to play you guys. I like your fan base. Y'all are friendly and chill af

[Al_4_ISU 12666]

If it's Texas vs KSU, I'll actually root for the Horns.  Even with the optics of winning on your way out, I can't fucking take those fuckers winning again.  Especially because they didn't win the round robin last year, got lucky in a pointless rematch, and got a trophy for it.

There's only good KSU fan on the internet, and he posts here.

[Longboard Horn 41402]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

It must really chap his ass that Texas is picked to win the Big 12. I hope we firebomb all the fuckers on our schedule. 

[Al_4_ISU 12666]

Just now, Longboard Horn said:

Point taken. However, I for one wish we would continue to play you guys. I like your fan base. Y'all are friendly and chill af

I heard there were some ISU fans being dicks to UT fans in 2021.  We were pretty chapped when you left, but now that the dust is settled most people are over it.

2 minutes ago, Trojan Man said:

Georgia/Georgia Tech.

He's right.  I've heard the exact same thing said by posters here, that for Texas the SEC move is more about being affiliated with peers than money.  Athletically, Texas has more in common with SEC schools than Big 12 schools.  As for the quality loss angle that is also true and something I have heard from Texas fans.  SEC losses aren't held against teams nearly as much as Big 12 losses are, and I'm anticipating the same thing helping my team.  I'm looking forward to B1G losses being forgiven and shrugged off by the media and voters and the committee as opposed to the scarlet letter nature of Pac 12 losses.

I thought they were never in the same conference, like ISU/Iowa.

[Trojan Man 429]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I thought they were never in the same conference, like ISU/Iowa.

Georgia Tech was in the SEC from 1933-63.  Both schools were also in the Southern conference for a decade or so before they joined the SEC together.  Now that I think about it, technically this doesn't apply to what you asked because hurt feelings never interrupted their series.  Besides 2020 they have played uninterrupted since 1925.  Georgia Tech left for independence because they were unhappy about how much SEC teams were oversigning recruits, so that wasn't quite the same as Oklahoma leaving behind Oklahoma State for the SEC.  Being independent also meant Tech had room to continue scheduling Georgia.

[Pancho 46374]

20 minutes ago, Longboard Horn said:

Point taken. However, I for one wish we would continue to play you guys. I like your fan base. Y'all are friendly and chill af

After what they did to Dillon in basketball? Nope. There’s no telling what they’ll do to our players in football this year. They can stay where they are similar to tech.

 

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 19005]

5 hours ago, Trojan Man said:

He's right.  I've heard the exact same thing said by posters here, that for Texas the SEC move is more about being affiliated with peers than money.  Athletically, Texas has more in common with SEC schools than Big 12 schools.  As for the quality loss angle that is also true and something I have heard from Texas fans.  SEC losses aren't held against teams nearly as much as Big 12 losses are, and I'm anticipating the same thing helping my team.  I'm looking forward to B1G losses being forgiven and shrugged off by the media and voters and the committee as opposed to the scarlet letter nature of Pac 12 losses.

1. Whenever someone says it's not about the money, it's always about the money. I don't think it was the only factor, but it certainly wasn't a coincidence that Texas and OU bolted shortly after seeing that the new Big 12 TV contract was going to be a kick in the nuts. The dollars were certainly not trivial and falling further behind the SEC (and a second rate program like A&M, especially) wasn't going to fly.

2. I agree mostly with the notion about being affiliated with peers and our home schedule has been a joke for years, especially with our biggest game being played in Dallas every year. But beyond that, we were taking it in the ass on the recruiting trail from A&M screaming SEC at every recruit with Bama, LSU and Ohio State also raiding the elite talent in state. The conference affiliation was putting Texas at a distinct disadvantage. Back to back shitty coaching hires drove that point home -- a good coach would have run the Big 12 and been competing for playoff berths, which would have largely negated the conference recruiting disadvantage, but instead we got Chuckles the clown and Tommy Boy stepping on their own dicks at every turn. 

3. Timing is everything. Texas wasn't about to wade into the cesspool of SEC cheating, but NIL changed the game. And you nailed it about the losses not counting as much. The playoff expansion takes the pressure off trying to go undefeated every year to win a national championship and you are always going to get the benefit of the doubt being in the SEC.

4. It also made a lot of sense to get A&M and Arkansas back on the schedule. No disrespect to Al, but nobody here really gets that fired up to play Iowa State or Baylor or TCU or Tech. Unlike most conference realignment moves, we actually gained more rivals and restored tradition back to the program and college football.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Mitch Cumsteen

[TKthunder2 5060]

34 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Has there been a single realignment-ended rivalry that's maintained on a regular basis?  

BYU/Utah have continued to play most years.

[Al_4_ISU 12666]

After what they did to Dillon in basketball? Nope. There’s no telling what they’ll do to our players in football this year. They can stay where they are similar to tech.
 
 

Mike Davis says “hi”. Cheap shots happen. It’s not a reflection of an entire university

[Al_4_ISU 12666]

BYU/Utah have continued to play most years.

Forgot that one somehow

[Al_4_ISU 12666]

1. Whenever someone says it's not about the money, it's always about the money. I don't think it was the only factor, but it certainly wasn't a coincidence that Texas and OU bolted shortly after seeing that the new Big 12 TV contract was going to be a kick in the nuts. The dollars were certainly not trivial and falling further being the SEC (and a second rate program like A&M, especially) wasn't going to fly.
2. I agree mostly with the notion about being affiliated with peers and our home schedule has been a joke for years, especially with our biggest game being played in Dallas every year. But beyond that, we were taking it in the ass on the recruiting trail from A&M screaming SEC at every recruit with Bama, LSU and Ohio State also raiding the elite talent in state. The conference affiliation was putting Texas at a distinct disadvantage. Back to back shitty coaching hires drove that point home -- a good coach would have run the Big 12 and been competing for playoff berths, which would have largely negated the conference recruiting disadvantage, but instead we got Chuckles the clown and Tommy Boy stepping on their own dicks at every turn. 
3. Timing is everything. Texas wasn't about to wade into the cesspool of SEC cheating, but NIL changed the game. And you nailed it about the losses not counting as much. The playoff expansion takes the pressure off trying to go undefeated every year to win a national championship and you are always going to get the benefit of the doubt being in the SEC.
4. It also made a lot of sense to get A&M and Arkansas back on the schedule. No disrespect to Al, but nobody here really gets that fired up to play Iowa State or Baylor or TCU or Tech. Unlike most conference realignment moves, we actually gained more rivals and restored tradition back to the program and college football.

No offense taken. Texas is generally not an abnormal draw for us either, beyond the “take down the big guy” angle.

The games we miss from realignment are Nebraska and Mizzou. The games that matter most for us are Iowa and KSU.

[Vertigo 20502]

17 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Mike Davis says “hi”. Cheap shots happen. It’s not a reflection of an entire university

He just dropped his contact, I am not sure why you keep vision shaming him. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 3527]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Has there been a single realignment-ended rivalry that's maintained on a regular basis?  

Not a realignment-ended rivalry but just an example that if theres a will, theres a way to keep playing each other is Florida - Florida State. Nearly took an act of legislature but that game gets played and they have never shared a conference. Maybe in the future Okie State and OU will figure something like that out but clearly not any will to do so presently (Gundy with one less near auto L on the schedule and all)

[Al_4_ISU 12666]

3 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Not a realignment-ended rivalry but just an example that if theres a will, theres a way to keep playing each other is Florida - Florida State. Nearly took an act of legislature but that game gets played and they have never shared a conference. Maybe in the future Okie State and OU will figure something like that out but clearly not any will to do so presently (Gundy with one less near auto L on the schedule and all)

That's how ISU/Iowa works.  It was forced by the legislature back in the 70's.  Neither school wanted to play it again.

I'm just saying that the vast majority of these rivalries that were ended by realignment in the past 15-20 years have been scrapped or turned into one-offs.  If Texas had decided to stay in the Big 12, I doubt y'all would be playing Aggy again any time soon.  It just generally hasn't worked out, and I don't think the death of Bedlam is much of a deviation from that pattern.