Left Behind: A Quick Dose Of Post Big 12 Reality

[oSuJeff97 3439]

I can haz Oregon...???

[Aqua Buddha 14809]

15 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

They should have taken Texas/Tech/OU and oSu when they had the chance.  We would be in a different reality today if they had.

Larry Scott f'd that one up.

Yeah, I said something as much earlier in that they had a wild misunderstanding of who needed who.  They thought OU and Texas needed them.  It was always the other way around.  They should have given those Big 12 schools whatever they wanted.  (If you remember, Aggy was a part of that original package.)

They could have had the Pac-16 or whatever with USC/Oregon playing Texas/OU in the conference title game in either JerryWorld, Phoenix, or Stan Kroenke's spaceship.  Instead, they're about to dissolve.

['stache 22148]

5 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, I said something as much earlier in that they had a wild misunderstanding of who needed who.  They thought OU and Texas needed them.  It was always the other way around.  They should have given those Big 12 schools whatever they wanted.  (If you remember, Aggy was a part of that original package.)

They could have had the Pac-16 or whatever with USC/Oregon playing Texas/OU in the conference title game in either JerryWorld, Phoenix, or Stan Kroenke's spaceship.  Instead, they're about to dissolve.

ESPN didn’t want that, hence the Longhorn Network.

['stache 22148]

Also, re whether CU made a good or bad choice in 2010, remember they thought UT, Tech, OU, and OSU were gonna follow. They jumped the gun to make sure Baylor didn’t take their place in that deal.

[Deej 77895]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Also, re whether CU made a good or bad choice in 2010, remember they thought UT, Tech, OU, and OSU were gonna follow. They jumped the gun to make sure Baylor didn’t take their place in that deal.

Lulz..like the PAC would have agreed to anything that involved Baylor. 

[Al_4_ISU 12667]

14 minutes ago, 'stache said:

ESPN didn’t want that, hence the Longhorn Network.

Yeah, I'm as guilty as anyone of thinking that schools or conferences have much of a say, but the result of the 2010 realignment should make it clear that the networks are in charge.

And it's no coincidence that ESPN spent the next decade negging the Big 12 and singlehandedly created a perception problem, while also somewhat underpaying the league, in order to pry UT and OU loose to the SEC.  Once they had the SEC where they wanted it, they saw the opportunity to groom the Big 12 into the SEC undercard, and here we are.  The Big 12's renaissance is largely a result of ESPN seeing more value in it than the Pac 12 for filling out their viewing windows (due to the greater engagement of the Big 12 fanbases).

[TrashMaster G 18135]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, I said something as much earlier in that they had a wild misunderstanding of who needed who.  They thought OU and Texas needed them.  It was always the other way around.  They should have given those Big 12 schools whatever they wanted.  (If you remember, Aggy was a part of that original package.)

They could have had the Pac-16 or whatever with USC/Oregon playing Texas/OU in the conference title game in either JerryWorld, Phoenix, or Stan Kroenke's spaceship.  Instead, they're about to dissolve.

Agreed.

[Chewbacca 7830]

1 hour ago, TrashMaster G said:

They should have taken Texas/Tech/OU and oSu when they had the chance.  We would be in a different reality today if they had.

Larry Scott f'd that one up.

Larry Scott fucked a lot of things up.  That dude was a disaster and I'm not convinced Kliavkoff is any better.

[Chewbacca 7830]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Also, re whether CU made a good or bad choice in 2010, remember they thought UT, Tech, OU, and OSU were gonna follow. They jumped the gun to make sure Baylor didn’t take their place in that deal.

Baylor was never getting a Pac invite.  Doesn't mean they didn't lobby hard for one. 

At the time, CU going to the Pac made sense.  And now, coming back also makes sense.

[Aqua Buddha 14809]

14 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Larry Scott fucked a lot of things up.  That dude was a disaster and I'm not convinced Kliavkoff is any better.

Was it Larry Scott or the member institutions?  Some of them have shown a surprising misunderstanding on how this all works even now.  I remember reading the other CA schools thought they would all be getting Big 10 invites.

Really, the only schools out there committed to athletics are USC, UCLA, Oregon, and UW.  That doesn't mean schools like Stanford don't have good athletic programs but Stanford is worried about more about academics as they should be.  The rest either have no money or simply don't care (Cal).

[Chewbacca 7830]

1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Was it Larry Scott or the member institutions?  Some of them have shown a surprising misunderstanding on how this all works even now.  I remember reading the other CA schools thought they would all be getting Big 10 invites.

Really, the only schools out there committed to athletics are USC, UCLA, Oregon, and UW.  That doesn't mean schools like Stanford don't have good athletic programs but Stanford is worried about more about academics as they should be.  The rest either have no money or simply don't care (Cal).

The member institutions definitely enabled the poor leadership, there's no doubt about that.  And without that accountability, you get what the Pac got.

[BurntOrange&White 42017]

great point 

[Uncle Nate 2097]

48 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Larry Scott fucked a lot of things up.  That dude was a disaster and I'm not convinced Kliavkoff is any better.

I would argue that Kliavkoff is actually worse.

I think Scott was a realist and actually had somewhat of a vision.  I think the presidents and the networks undercut him, and once the writing was on the wall and he realized he couldn't accomplish a damn thing, he said, "Fuck it" and decided to milk them for whatever they were willing to give him.

Kliavkoff, on the other hand, is both dumb and ineffective.  I'm sure the former is the reason for the latter.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1314]

It has more to do with the university presidents than anything else. They couldn't be bothered to associate with schools in Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma that admit anyone who can score a 24 on the ACT, and now they only have themselves to associate with.

[Chewbacca 7830]

4 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

It has more to do with the university presidents than anything else. They couldn't be bothered to associate with schools in Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma that admit anyone who can score a 24 on the ACT, and now they only have themselves to associate with.

There's a lot of truth to this.

[Al_4_ISU 12667]

I really thought that the Pac 12 was going to add KU, OK State, ISU, KSU, Tech, and TCU in '21.  It seemed like an extremely logical move.

And it was, but you know, associating with red state prairie trash and all that jazz.

[tx ind 7060]

53 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I really thought that the Pac 12 was going to add KU, OK State, ISU, KSU, Tech, and TCU in '21.  It seemed like an extremely logical move.

And it was, but you know, associating with red state prairie trash and all that jazz.

seeing Baylor get fucked by this would have gruntled me

[Al_4_ISU 12667]

seeing Baylor get fucked by this would have gruntled me

There’s no universe where Baylor would have been in that league

[Samson's Wig 3230]

3 hours ago, Deej said:

Lulz..like the PAC would have agreed to anything that involved Baylor. 

Like any conference not as stupid as the SWC and Big12 would do anything involving Baylor, or TCU, or Houston.  Holy crap.

[Samson's Wig 3230]

1 hour ago, Uncle Nate said:

I would argue that Kliavkoff is actually worse.

I think Scott was a realist and actually had somewhat of a vision.  I think the presidents and the networks undercut him, and once the writing was on the wall and he realized he couldn't accomplish a damn thing, he said, "Fuck it" and decided to milk them for whatever they were willing to give him.

Kliavkoff, on the other hand, is both dumb and ineffective.  I'm sure the former is the reason for the latter.

Kliavkoff has effectively ended his career in the entertainment industry after the way he bungled this.  No one will touch him.

[LTtxfan 50038]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

no coincidence ESPN spent the next decade negging Big12 and created a perception problem, while underpaying the league, in order to pry UT and OU loose to the SEC.  Once they had the SEC where they wanted it, they saw the opportunity to groom the Big 12 into the SEC undercard, and here we are.  The Big 12's renaissance is largely a result of ESPN seeing more value in it than the Pac 12 for filling out their viewing windows (due to the greater engagement of the Big 12 fanbases).

BOMC 🤘

[Deej 77895]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Yeah, I'm as guilty as anyone of thinking that schools or conferences have much of a say, but the result of the 2010 realignment should make it clear that the networks are in charge.

And it's no coincidence that ESPN spent the next decade negging the Big 12 and singlehandedly created a perception problem, while also somewhat underpaying the league, in order to pry UT and OU loose to the SEC.  Once they had the SEC where they wanted it, they saw the opportunity to groom the Big 12 into the SEC undercard, and here we are.  The Big 12's renaissance is largely a result of ESPN seeing more value in it than the Pac 12 for filling out their viewing windows (due to the greater engagement of the Big 12 fanbases).

 

[Aqua Buddha 14809]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

There's a lot of truth to this.

 

2 hours ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

It has more to do with the university presidents than anything else. They couldn't be bothered to associate with schools in Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma that admit anyone who can score a 24 on the ACT, and now they only have themselves to associate with.

Yep on both.  They looked down from their ivory towers at the great, unwashed swarms from Norman, Lubbock, and Stillwater.  Never mind they already had the Zona schools, Wazzu, and Oregon State.

We ain't playin' school.

[n64ra 1150]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I really thought that the Pac 12 was going to add KU, OK State, ISU, KSU, Tech, and TCU in '21.  It seemed like an extremely logical move.

And it was, but you know, associating with red state prairie trash and all that jazz.

I thought they'd take two - KU and not sure who else. Tech - no, too trash. TCU - no, not getting votes for a religious school, ISU - maybe. OSU - probably not. Hence, why the Pac-12 couldn't figure out how to capitalize.

Edited July 28, 2023 by n64ra

[n64ra 1150]

6 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

 

 

I think calling Aggy the "Auburn of the Big 12" is a pretty generous reading of where they were when the left.

Aggy hadn't sniffed the Big 12 title game in more than a decade by the time they left the conference.  They made the Big 12 title game in 1997 and 1998 before Stoops took over at OU and before Leach got TTU going and Miles/Gundy got OSU going.  Once those three things happened, they never sniffed it again.

Their last 5 years in the Big 12 their records were:

7-6, 9-4, 6-7, 4-8, 7-6

They had once decent year along with two seasons with losing records and two 7-6s. They were clearly behind OU, Texas and OSU/Tech in the Big 12 South pecking order.

If we play out what happened over the next decade, it's pretty clear they would have remained the 3rd or 4th best program in the Big 12 South with OU/OSU clearly ahead of them and while Tech and Texas faded somewhat from where they were, we had Baylor ascending under Briles so there were still going to be a ton of road blocks from A&M ever sniffing a Big 12 title game in those years as well.

 

Agree. It's an insult to Auburn, who's had two undefeated seasons this century. A quick glance at the Big 12 South standings over the decade before aggy left the Big 12 shows them and Baylor fighting for last place half the time. Only once did aggy finish better than third - and remember, w're talking out of six teams!

[Satchel 6983]

Apparently these dry bones can live:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/07/27/big-12-adding-colorado-conference-realignment

The resolve stemmed from the fact that the remaining eight schools all wanted to stay together if possible. Losing the two biggest brands in the conference was a huge blow, but removing heavy-handed Texas from the boardroom dynamics actually made collaboration easier. The partnerships were solid, and the league’s anchor in Texas remained valuable. Nobody wanted to give up on the league until it was absolutely necessary.

 

It is exceedingly difficult to survive as a wounded animal in the modern college athletics jungle. Yet here we are two years hence, with the Big 12 not just alive but sporting the teeth and claws of a fierce predator. Colorado is coming, the membership has swelled to 13 schools and more could be added soon.

It’s a testament to the league’s collective attributes, all of which revealed themselves in a time of crisis: resolve, self-awareness, patience, leadership, boldness and ruthlessness.

 

 

.

[LTtxfan 50038]

The "Big 13"

 

[billfromlaketravis 11878]

45 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Apparently these dry bones can live:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/07/27/big-12-adding-colorado-conference-realignment

The resolve stemmed from the fact that the remaining eight schools all wanted to stay together if possible. Losing the two biggest brands in the conference was a huge blow, but removing heavy-handed Texas from the boardroom dynamics actually made collaboration easier. The partnerships were solid, and the league’s anchor in Texas remained valuable. Nobody wanted to give up on the league until it was absolutely necessary.

 

It is exceedingly difficult to survive as a wounded animal in the modern college athletics jungle. Yet here we are two years hence, with the Big 12 not just alive but sporting the teeth and claws of a fierce predator. Colorado is coming, the membership has swelled to 13 schools and more could be added soon.

It’s a testament to the league’s collective attributes, all of which revealed themselves in a time of crisis: resolve, self-awareness, patience, leadership, boldness and ruthlessness.

 

 

.

This is why pisses me about sports journalism. A couple anecdotes get repeated and it’s taken as fact. 
 

What editor at the Wall Street Journal or Financial Times would sign off on this bullshit?

[Deej 77895]

55 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Apparently these dry bones can live:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/07/27/big-12-adding-colorado-conference-realignment

The resolve stemmed from the fact that the remaining eight schools all wanted to stay together if possible. Losing the two biggest brands in the conference was a huge blow, but removing heavy-handed Texas from the boardroom dynamics actually made collaboration easier. The partnerships were solid, and the league’s anchor in Texas remained valuable. Nobody wanted to give up on the league until it was absolutely necessary.

 

It is exceedingly difficult to survive as a wounded animal in the modern college athletics jungle. Yet here we are two years hence, with the Big 12 not just alive but sporting the teeth and claws of a fierce predator. Colorado is coming, the membership has swelled to 13 schools and more could be added soon.

It’s a testament to the league’s collective attributes, all of which revealed themselves in a time of crisis: resolve, self-awareness, patience, leadership, boldness and ruthlessness.

 

 

.

Such bullshit. A bunch of leeches. Fuck em all. 

[Steel Shank 9564]

2 hours ago, Satchel said:

Apparently these dry bones can live:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/07/27/big-12-adding-colorado-conference-realignment

The resolve stemmed from the fact that the remaining eight schools all wanted to stay together if possible. Losing the two biggest brands in the conference was a huge blow, but removing heavy-handed Texas from the boardroom dynamics actually made collaboration easier. The partnerships were solid, and the league’s anchor in Texas remained valuable. Nobody wanted to give up on the league until it was absolutely necessary.

 

It is exceedingly difficult to survive as a wounded animal in the modern college athletics jungle. Yet here we are two years hence, with the Big 12 not just alive but sporting the teeth and claws of a fierce predator. Colorado is coming, the membership has swelled to 13 schools and more could be added soon.

It’s a testament to the league’s collective attributes, all of which revealed themselves in a time of crisis: resolve, self-awareness, patience, leadership, boldness and ruthlessness.

 

 

.

Collaboration was easier because their fucking backs were against the wall. They HAD to work together or die.

[camel at sea 589]

9 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If PAC is adding the MWC teams then they are no longer p5. 

 

The way I see it is there is going to be a p4.

Let's see what this looks like:  Utah, Stanford, Cal, Arizona St, Oregon St., Washington St, San Diego St, Boise, Colorado St, SMU

 

That looks a lot better than the MWC and AAC - especially after raiding from both of them.  Maybe they'd be in some kind of limbo between the four leagues above them and those below, but I think their champ would be a lock to get one of those expanded CFP trips every year.  

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Deej said:

Lulz..like the PAC would have agreed to anything that involved Baylor. 

What about today? Reckon they’re a little more conciliatory these days, with impending death?

[Deej 77895]

Just now, slorch said:

What about today? Reckon they’re a little more conciliatory these days, with impending death?

Do they like rape?

[Jasper_Jester 356]

Colorado, the dirty whoring conference breaker is back. Congrats Big 12. Maybe they can get their sister wives at Nebraska to come back...

[Deej 77895]

1 minute ago, Jasper_Jester said:

Colorado, the dirty whoring conference breaker is back. Congrats Big 12. Maybe they can get their sister wives at Nebraska to come back...

C'mon, man, don't you know it was all Texas' fault?

All the little 12 remnants out front should have told you. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Deej

[camel at sea 589]

6 hours ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

It has more to do with the university presidents than anything else. They couldn't be bothered to associate with schools in Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma that admit anyone who can score a 24 on the ACT, and now they only have themselves to associate with.

Say whatever you want about Larry Scott, but he had OU and OSU on board in 2011 and the PAC Presidents shot it down.  I don't blame him for just cashing checks for the rest of his tenure.  

[Dewey 3337]

Yeah, Texas and ou held the conference together when it could have broke, big new contract and we out. But yes, Texas was heavy handed apparently. 

[Nivek 17427]

3 hours ago, Satchel said:

Apparently these dry bones can live:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/07/27/big-12-adding-colorado-conference-realignment

The resolve stemmed from the fact that the remaining eight schools all wanted to stay together if possible. Losing the two biggest brands in the conference was a huge blow, but removing heavy-handed Texas from the boardroom dynamics actually made collaboration easier. The partnerships were solid, and the league’s anchor in Texas remained valuable. Nobody wanted to give up on the league until it was absolutely necessary.

 

It is exceedingly difficult to survive as a wounded animal in the modern college athletics jungle. Yet here we are two years hence, with the Big 12 not just alive but sporting the teeth and claws of a fierce predator. Colorado is coming, the membership has swelled to 13 schools and more could be added soon.

It’s a testament to the league’s collective attributes, all of which revealed themselves in a time of crisis: resolve, self-awareness, patience, leadership, boldness and ruthlessness.

 

 

.

That is some quality spin.  But it sounds like it should really read that two dumbfucks fiddle-faddled while others made moves.  Their member institutions complained but the dumbfucks thought they were above it.  The first dumbfuck tried to punish the breadwinners and they left.  Then the other dumbfuck kept sniffing his own farts and his members left.  The first dumbfuck was dumber, but he totally redeemed himself by fingerpainting in shit and drawing a mediocre crowd to admire his work.  The second dumbfuck was gobsmacked that no one wanted to smell farts with him and he was above finger painting with shit. 

[thunderlounge 8476]

39 minutes ago, Deej said:

Do they like rape?

 

They did say it twice, if that's any indication.

[Okie State 3892]

Do they like rape?

Do any of us? We didn't do a damn thing to punish Baylor. Those fucks should have been relegated to oblivion, but they weren't.

[Deej 77895]

6 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Those fucks should have been relegated to oblivion

We should send them to the PAC 12

[Chad 1728]

As bad as Nebraska was after leaving the Big 12 Colorado has been a steaming pile of shit. Exactly two seasons over .500 in over a decade, they would've been better off inviting UTSA.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Chad

[cactusflinthead 27628]

 

[statsman 5704]

13 hours ago, Satchel said:

Apparently these dry bones can live:

https://www.si.com/college/2023/07/27/big-12-adding-colorado-conference-realignment

The resolve stemmed from the fact that the remaining eight schools all wanted to stay together if possible. Losing the two biggest brands in the conference was a huge blow, but removing heavy-handed Texas from the boardroom dynamics actually made collaboration easier. The partnerships were solid, and the league’s anchor in Texas remained valuable. Nobody wanted to give up on the league until it was absolutely necessary.

 

It is exceedingly difficult to survive as a wounded animal in the modern college athletics jungle. Yet here we are two years hence, with the Big 12 not just alive but sporting the teeth and claws of a fierce predator. Colorado is coming, the membership has swelled to 13 schools and more could be added soon.

It’s a testament to the league’s collective attributes, all of which revealed themselves in a time of crisis: resolve, self-awareness, patience, leadership, boldness and ruthlessness.

 

 

.

That’s a lot of words for- “the Big 12 is like a good west Texas marriage, in that those involved realize they have no better options”

[statsman 5704]

9 hours ago, Okie State said:

10 hours ago, Deej said:

Do they like rape?

Do any of us? We didn't do a damn thing to punish Baylor. Those fucks should have been relegated to oblivion, but they weren't.

At the time, thanks to Gov. Perry, there was a big Baylor booster on the Texas BoR. 

[Lidig8r 1906]

11 hours ago, thunderlounge said:

 

They did say it twice, if that's any indication.

 

[Longboard Horn 41404]

20 hours ago, 'stache said:

Also, re whether CU made a good or bad choice in 2010, remember they thought UT, Tech, OU, and OSU were gonna follow. They jumped the gun to make sure Baylor didn’t take their place in that deal.

The Pac would NOT have taken Baylor. No religious schools. Cal Berkeley would have blocked it. 

[Aqua Buddha 14809]

29 minutes ago, Longboard Horn said:

The Pac would NOT have taken Baylor. No religious schools. Cal Berkeley would have blocked it. 

They wouldn't have even answered the phone if Baylor called.  Not in a million years.

[closetohumping 17831]

21 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Yeah, I said something as much earlier in that they had a wild misunderstanding of who needed who.  They thought OU and Texas needed them.  It was always the other way around.  They should have given those Big 12 schools whatever they wanted.  (If you remember, Aggy was a part of that original package.)

They could have had the Pac-16 or whatever with USC/Oregon playing Texas/OU in the conference title game in either JerryWorld, Phoenix, or Stan Kroenke's spaceship.  Instead, they're about to dissolve.

I remember that thinking.  I thought we did need the pac to be honest. Ultimately I think they were unwilling to accept the LHN.  I still think that would’ve been the best move for us and college football. 
 

 

Remember when ou tried to make a solo run but was told “come back when you have Texas with you?”

[closetohumping 17831]

18 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I really thought that the Pac 12 was going to add KU, OK State, ISU, KSU, Tech, and TCU in '21.  It seemed like an extremely logical move.

And it was, but you know, associating with red state prairie trash and all that jazz.

Some of that but I thinknUSC hot the pause button.  Dick move