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Hawkeye - Disney+ Marvel Show

mdmost

By mdmost
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utxmike05

utxmike05 1,828

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Glad “that” character showed up. 
These episodes are too short and they spend most the time as a buddy cop show them 10 mins action. Now we only have 2 eps left. :(

Wanda and Loki got better showtime….guess they are bigger characters and use magic. Hawkeye just a reg dude trying to get home for Xmas. 
 

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89,775

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3 hours ago, mdmost said:

The opening looked so good it made me wonder if that was a deleted scene from the Black Widow movie. 

It did have a cinematic quality to it.  also put things in perspective   They kind of gave you a sense of it in Wandavision when she woke up in the hospital along with a shitload of other people, this you actually saw play out in real-time for her   

 

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'stache

'stache 21,830

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On 12/9/2021 at 5:39 PM, henrygandorf said:

i am definitely having fun with the show and the action and the tone and all the rest.  my brain has been a bit nit-picky, as always.  none of this is really affecting my enjoyment level, but it's still registering as i watch.  i'm sure there's stuff that can be explained or shit i missed, but here are a few thoughts...

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the show opens with kate at school, somewhere close, but not home.  at the time, i didn't know if it was boarding school, college, whatever.  she's shooting at a clock tower for reasons i'm not aware of, she hits it, she breaks it, her friends run away, she comes home for xmas.  she talks to her mom on the phone, her mom asks her if she's "in the city" which sounds like something you say to someone from nyc, but who doesn't live there currently.  she's in the city, she goes to see her mom at the penthouse from the beginning of the show.  we see she's still rich, it's told to us many times. 

clint is also in town with his family, but not his wife, which again, is not really explained.  they plan a pretty sweet leadup to xmas (presumably in new york) over dinner, where everyone chooses what they want to do that week.

shit goes down at the auction (which was public knowledge to the mom but seemed pretty secret when they were there), where she meets the old armand (the 3rd) who's with young armand (the 7th) and that's not even mathematically possible but whatever.  shit goes sideways at the auction, items are there, some are stolen, we don't know which ones and why.  then instead of going back "home", she goes to her "apartment" which is above a pizza place?  she's rich, but the apartment is not nice.  she steals a homeless dog and feeds it pizza, presumably from downstairs.  later she's seen talking about feeding the dog breakfast, and she's holding a frozen pizza.  lol ok. 

her shitty apartment burns down leaving the suit, which seemed too important to leave behind even in a fire.  she and hawkeye are friends now, and break into her aunt's(?) apartment and just go full-on home invasion and make it their own.  they live there now.  her mother knows her apartment burned down, but hasn't really mentioned like, "oh, you're staying here at home, right?"  nothing.  also she mentions having to go to work, which is for her mother's company, and she rolls in the next morning like she goes to work there every day.  but the day before, she was at school with her friends, who she never talks to or mentions again, and also it seemed like it was in another nearby city.

then, clint abandons the dream xmas leadup week and puts his kids in a car to travel back from new york, on their own, which seems a little dicey (from jfk?), especially considering he didn't seem to be in any danger and he didn't seem to have a good reason to stay there alone.  oh, the suit.  and the ronin.  and he has to make sure that the ronin is safe.  only he is the ronin, so he knows the ronin is fine, except for the suit.  which i guess confusingly starts this whole mess. 

so day after day, he seems to invent new and moderately believable reasons to stay in new york running around and sleeping at the same stranger's apartment with a hot 22 year old college chick, which makes his wife the most generously fictitious character in modern television history.  also didn't he just have a hotel suite?  why wouldn't he just stay there, even if he isn't doing the xmas week he promised his children?

sidenote - at one point, clint says "shouldn't you be in school?" which is a line i've heard muttered at least a couple dozen times in tv/movies, and it should never be said to a 22 year old. 

why would they have him say this?  my theory is that they've tried really hard early on to let everyone know that they're just buddies, there is nothing sexual going on between them and anything like that wouldn't be possible, because she's young enough to say that to.  but just for good measure, we're gonna have clint be 45 going on 90, with his hearing aid and needing to ice down every part of his body.  we get it, he's just an archer.  he doesn't have super genes from a spider or serum.  but showing him buying neosporin and teaching kate how to dress wounds seems a little on-the-nose for me.  i'm watching marvel for a reason.    

which i guess is all to say that i don't care about the realism in any of the action, the fighting, the storyline even, but the minor plot stuff is such a mess and was really avoidable in so many ways.  it's like i'm watching the production version of an old writing drill where you pass around the page and everybody writes their continuation but the whole story always winds up inconsistent and sloppy, which is the entire point of the exercise.  it would've taken 3 throwaway lines to avoid all of it, but alas.

sorry, that was long, and i forgot some other shit i'm sure, but whatever.  i'm still into it.  no idea why clint seems so determined to ditch his family right before xmas, but i get it, families are the worst. 

i decided to spoiler instead of longcatting the thread.

I don't remember the Ronin story from prior films, but I thought it was explained why he has to stay and can't go to his family yet, unless it's me that's missing something...

Spoiler

My understanding is that Barton's entire family was blipped and during that time he took on the Ronin role and fought a bunch of organized crime organization. He mentions in the series that "everyone dealt with the blip in their own way" and that Ronin had "made a lot of enemies." The public, and presumably the enemies, think the Ronin is dead. When Kate takes the suit and is filmed fighting people everyone thinks the Ronin is back or alive now and Barton knows the enemies will become interested again in pursuing this person. So his first task is to find out who is using the suit and stop them. When he finds out its this kid, he also tries to protect her, but then finds that there is evidence being pursued by the enemies that lead back to Barton, and they are likely to go after his family too (the apartment scene shows that there is a list of his family by name which the presumably found when they had his watch). So his task now is to save his family by convincing the enemies that the Ronin is dead or to kill them all to keep them from pursuing him and his family. There's also the side story about the mom and the evil rich guy because they appear to be tied to the gang that is trying to kill Ronin. That's my understanding of why he can't go to his family just yet.

 

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joeycovers

joeycovers 391

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19 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Will they explain later why Yelena thinks Barton killed Natasha? Or did I miss something from the episode or a prior film?

If I remember correctly she was told that at the end credit scene in Black Widow when shes at the grave.  Maybe after being told that she did some digging and found out Hawkeye was Ronin so she assumes he's capable of it. 

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The Dog

The Dog 44,096

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2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Will they explain later why Yelena thinks Barton killed Natasha? Or did I miss something from the episode or a prior film?

 

2 hours ago, joeycovers said:

If I remember correctly she was told that at the end credit scene in Black Widow when shes at the grave.  Maybe after being told that she did some digging and found out Hawkeye was Ronin so she assumes he's capable of it. 

Spoiler

This is correct. She's at Natasha's gravesite at the end and Valentina shows up and gives her a "new assignment" - which is to kill the person who "killed her sister" and it's Barton.

 

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'stache

'stache 21,830

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5 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

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This is correct. She's at Natasha's gravesite at the end and Valentina shows up and gives her a "new assignment" - which is to kill the person who "killed her sister" and it's Barton.

 

Ah, I do remember that now, didn't really get it at the time. She obviously knew he was capable of it, but still weird that she doesn't believe everyone else telling them that they were close.

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utxmike05

utxmike05 1,828

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12 hours ago, 'stache said:

Ah, I do remember that now, didn't really get it at the time. She obviously knew he was capable of it, but still weird that she doesn't believe everyone else telling them that they were close.

Same here. Kate even told Yelena to question where she is getting her info…and to rethink who she should believe.  

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4,997

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10 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

so when exactly did the cemetery scene happen?  during the current hawkeye timeline, yeah?

how long has yelena been in new york?  the post-blip timeline is a little confusing. 

Cemetery scene happened between End Game and the start of this series which is loosely set 1 years after End Game (which was 5 years after Infinity War).

Obviously Yelena had been blipped back, informed of Nat’s death, and had already done a few jobs for the Contessa (likely the person her friend was going to help her connect with) since they had a conversation where it was obvious they already were well acquainted.

This would lead me to believe that it happened fairly recently, 1-6 months back prior to the start of this series.

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mdmost

mdmost 43,016

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2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

So earlier in this thread y’all said that
 

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Kingpin showed up



When did that happen because I didn’t see it.

Spoiler

He's on the screenshot at the end of the episode with Kate's mom that Yelena sent over about who hired her. 

 

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Dutch

Dutch 4,474

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On 12/15/2021 at 9:11 PM, mdmost said:

The opening looked so good it made me wonder if that was a deleted scene from the Black Widow movie. 

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Netflix to MCU environment merging achievement unlocked!

 

The call backs to "Black Widow" in that scene, the whistling and using same score, were very nice touches.

Edited by Dutch
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29,194

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1 hour ago, TKthunder2 said:

Cemetery scene happened between End Game and the start of this series which is loosely set 1 years after End Game (which was 5 years after Infinity War).

Obviously Yelena had been blipped back, informed of Nat’s death, and had already done a few jobs for the Contessa (likely the person her friend was going to help her connect with) since they had a conversation where it was obvious they already were well acquainted.

This would lead me to believe that it happened fairly recently, 1-6 months back prior to the start of this series.

ok.  yelena mentioned to kate that "this is my first time in new york" like she was a tourist, but it also made it seem like she hadn't been there all that long.  definitely didn't seem like she had been there a year since blipping back.  it's possible that the cemetery scene happened during the hawkeye timeline, but that's what, 5 days?  so that doesn't really matter.  also seems like if she found out about who killed her sister, that would be the only job she cared about, she wouldn't go do others first.

so assuming that she's been told the truth, and kate's mom ordered the hit, then are we thinking that happened well before the mom knew kate and clint were pals?

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MillerEP

MillerEP 30,494

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14 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

A bigger question is why does Contessa tell her Hawkeye killed her sister?

At this point in the timeline, Hawkeye wasn’t doing Hawkeye shit any longer.

Two went to Vormir to get the Soul Stone, and only one came out, and it wasn't Black Widow.

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MillerEP

MillerEP 30,494

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She's building a new Team of Avenger knockoffs, for what reason, we don't know yet (Thunderbolts Maybe?), that's supposed to be a theme for Phase 4.

If you recall, she recruited Knock-off Captain America (U.S. Agent) at the end of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, she also is currying favor with knock-off Black Widow. That's just what we've seen.

Edited by MillerEP
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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4,997

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4 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

ok.  yelena mentioned to kate that "this is my first time in new york" like she was a tourist, but it also made it seem like she hadn't been there all that long.  definitely didn't seem like she had been there a year since blipping back.  it's possible that the cemetery scene happened during the hawkeye timeline, but that's what, 5 days?  so that doesn't really matter.  also seems like if she found out about who killed her sister, that would be the only job she cared about, she wouldn't go do others first.

so assuming that she's been told the truth, and kate's mom ordered the hit, then are we thinking that happened well before the mom knew kate and clint were pals?

I don’t think she’s been in NYC for all that long.  My guess is she blipped back, her friend set her up with Contessa and she did a few jobs knowing probably very little about Vomir because it likely isn’t general public knowledge.  After a few job Contessa shows up at the grave site tells her about Vomir and how Hawkeye is really bad guy Ronin and Nat knew and was killed for it in the confusion of the time travel stuff since they were essentially alone and you can easily craft a negative viewpoint in order to manipulate her to kill Clint for her own reasons.  Using the truth and crafting an unprovable narrative with factual evidence is a very powerful tool. The only witness is Clint who is a bad guy and came back without your sister so he’d be easy to hate.

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Js1

Js1 85,494

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5 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

I thought they wrapped it up pretty well. The final scene between Hawkeye and Yelena was just the right amount of heavy IMO. Yeah the arrow fest was kind of much but that’s ok.

IMDB lists it as a mini series so that’s it right? No more Hawkeye tv show?

Right. It’s whole point was to introduce the “new” Hawkeye for the next phase 

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