Buffalo Bills moving to Austin?

[Guest Lobo]

The Bears are about to get a new one built out in the suburbs.  Not sure how the funding structure will go, but it's Chicago so it'll be fucked up and 7 people will be buried in the foundation.  I've been curious how a new Lambeau Field would work.  I could give fuck one about the NFL, but the capital stack intrigues me.  It's owned by the citizen-owners and the municipality, and maybe even the state, would very likely play ball.  But how would private sector involvement work?  And who guarantees the debt?  It's that one goofy exception to typical ownership involvements/financing/debtor.

[TonyTexas 10482]

Football stadiums are pretty terrible investments. 10 NFL dates a year. Maybe a few college and high school games, a bowl, the occasional stadium concert or event. Whereas baseball gets 81 games and aren’t nearly as expensive to build. A well run basketball arena can have events 200+ a year. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by TonyTexas

[Guest Lobo]

The economics of an NFL stadium only make sense to the billionaire owners precisely because they make no sense.  It's the least sustainable venue funding model in all of sports/entertainment (including concert/performing arts venues).  But yet, they keep getting built at more elaborate levels with less capital risk to the ownership group.  And NFL fans keep lining up to throw more money at it because where else they're gonna wear their bespoken jerseys?  It's the saddest fucking thing to watch play out, it's nothing more than glorified scratch-off tickets for people who don't know they're the fucking mark.  

[GopherRock 1765]

The Bears bought Arlington Park Racetrack last fall, so it's only a matter of time before the Bears are playing in the 'burbs. 

Arrowhead, Lambeau, and Joe Robbie/Hard Rock have had extensive renovations in the last 10 years, so none of those are going anywhere anytime soon. Lambeau may as well be a new stadium. No idea on the future of the Superdome.

The next NFL stadium problem is Washington. FedEx Field is the perfect embodiment of Daniel Snyder's ownership (large chunks missing upstairs, full of untreated sewage, and rotting from the foundation).

Edited March 28, 2022 by GopherRock

[Al_4_ISU 12409]

14 minutes ago, Lobo said:

The economics of an NFL stadium only make sense to the billionaire owners precisely because they make no sense.  It's the least sustainable venue funding model in all of sports/entertainment (including concert/performing arts venues).  But yet, they keep getting built at more elaborate levels with less capital risk to the ownership group.  And NFL fans keep lining up to throw more money at it because where else they're gonna wear their bespoken jerseys?  It's the saddest fucking thing to watch play out, it's nothing more than glorified scratch-off tickets for people who don't know they're the fucking mark.  

You know what's great?  Being an NFL fan in a place that doesn't have an NFL team.  You get all the entertainment value while some other suckers pay for it.

[Blotto 23434]

5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You know what's great?  Being an NFL fan in a place that doesn't have an NFL team.  You get all the entertainment value while some other suckers pay for it.

USFL: Hold my beer

 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21781]

32 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Football stadiums are pretty terrible investments. 10 NFL dates a year. Maybe a few college and high school games, a bowl, the occasional stadium concert or event. Whereas baseball gets 81 games and aren’t nearly as expensive to build. A well run basketball arena can have events 200+ a year. 

It's not just building them.  We have an historical eyesore sitting here in Houston that the last shitty NFL owner left us.

[Hate 20103]

The Bears bought Arlington Park Racetrack last fall, so it's only a matter of time before the Bears are playing in the 'burbs. 
Arrowhead, Lambeau, and Joe Robbie/Hard Rock have had extensive renovations in the last 10 years, so none of those are going anywhere anytime soon. Lambeau may as well be a new stadium. No idea on the future of the Superdome.
The next NFL stadium problem is Washington. FedEx Field is the perfect embodiment of Daniel Snyder's ownership (large chunks missing upstairs, full of untreated sewage, and rotting from the foundation).

FedEx Field isn’t even that old. It was built in 1997.

['stache 21774]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

FedEx Field isn’t even that old. It was built in 1997.

And is apparently a piece of shit. The Ballpark at Arlington was built 1994 and was as nice as any stadium and is already replaced. That's what happens when team valuations inflate like crazy in a matter of 20 years.

[HornsOverIthaca 2333]

15 minutes ago, Hate said:

FedEx Field isn’t even that old. It was built in 1997.

Apparently it dumps sewage on people too.

[nnm 36100]

24 minutes ago, 'stache said:

And is apparently a piece of shit. The Ballpark at Arlington was built 1994 and was as nice as any stadium and is already replaced. That's what happens when team valuations inflate like crazy in a matter of 20 years.

The Ballpark was a mistake from the beginning. It was a Camden Yards clone, built in the nostalgia afterglow of the revitalization that followed from Baltimore’s new stadium. And it was (is) a beautiful retro-style ballpark. 
 

The problem is, IT’S IN TEXAS!!!  No new pro facility should be built without a roof and A/C in Texas. Especially for a freaking summer sport. It was a disaster from day 1. 
 

Minute Maid and Globe Life don’t have one tenth of the character of The Ballpark. And no one cares. At least one can go to a July game at those venues without stroking out. 

['stache 21774]

9 minutes ago, nnm said:

The Ballpark was a mistake from the beginning. It was a Camden Yards clone, built in the nostalgia afterglow of the revitalization that followed from Baltimore’s new stadium. And it was (is) a beautiful retro-style ballpark. 
 

The problem is, IT’S IN TEXAS!!!  No new pro facility should be built without a roof and A/C in Texas. Especially for a freaking summer sport. It was a disaster from day 1. 
 

Minute Maid and Globe Life don’t have one tenth of the character of The Ballpark. And no one cares. At least one can go to a July game at those venues without stroking out. 

Globe Life is still in a shitty suburb. Should have been built in downtown Dallas.

[notre dame joe 172]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

Football stadiums are pretty terrible investments. 10 NFL dates a year. Maybe a few college and high school games, a bowl, the occasional stadium concert or event. Whereas baseball gets 81 games and aren’t nearly as expensive to build. A well run basketball arena can have events 200+ a year. 

And ruins the college event, because now the bowl game must be moved into the NFL stadium to justify the cost. 

[Guest Lobo]

Could we fit a bowl game inside the Q2 stadium for Austin FC?  I mean, we know the economics would work.  But is the pitch actually big enough to house a standard size football field with enough sideline space?  

[DougO 5239]

2 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

2 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

Bills owners putting up $350M and borrowing an additional $200M from the league. 

Still not enough considering total cost is $1.4B. Local governments should not be putting in more than the billionaire owners.

Maybe a luxury tax for millionaire players? 

[DougO 5239]

1 hour ago, GopherRock said:

...full of untreated sewage, and rotting from the foundation).

That's custom habitat for the Hogs.

[jimmyjazz 45560]

12 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Could we fit a bowl game inside the Q2 stadium for Austin FC?  I mean, we know the economics would work.  But is the pitch actually big enough to house a standard size football field with enough sideline space?  

Should be.

20K seats is a big problem.

[Texzilla58 4717]

Globe Life is still in a shitty suburb. Should have been built in downtown Dallas.

Huh? Dallas rejected the Cowboys for Texas Stadium, ATT, and have no baseball history. The Rangers have always been in Arlington going back to the Spurs. They told the city that Frisco offered to build them a new indoor stadium and gave Arlington an opportunity to retain them.

I remember when The Ballpark was being built George W Bush talked several times on sports talk that it had been built to be retrofitted with a roof and AC.

I don’t get the need for a retractable roof on Globe Life though. An ugly design and they’ll rarely open the roof after May1 if ever. I don’t like it; it is a really sterile environment.

[Guest Lobo]

Meh, most bowl games are lucky to get that many.  UT has been telling us no for 10 years, but ESPN wants one in Austin...bad.  Only other option we've explored is hosting it at Texas State and calling it an "Austin Bowl Game."  I've ignored it during Covid but thought Andy and his team could take a long look at hosting it there, but before I even bring it up---I honestly can't tell if it's big enough dimension-wise.  It would be a relocate of some smaller bowl from some garbage town that gets 15-25k fans anyway, AAC v. Sun Belt, that kinda shit.  Crowd isn't my worry, we'll make the economics work.  BEfore I even bothtered to look back into it...thought I should make sure you can actually play football there...or it's a couple yards short and it becomes the plot to Ted Lasso Season 4.  

[Tex Pete 20179]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You know what's great?  Being an NFL fan in a place that doesn't have an NFL team.  You get all the entertainment value while some other suckers pay for it.

Iowans' NFL loyalties are always interesting to me with several teams not too far away, but none in Iowa. One B-I-L is a huge Bears fans, another is a huge Cowboys fan, two different neighbors across the street have Vikings season tickets. A nephew is a big Packers fan, and there are a lot of Chiefs and Broncos fans.  Denver is still pretty far, but Colorado is just "on the other side of Nebraska." Aside from the Cowboys, the other teams are about 2-4 hours from parts of Iowa. 

[Dnaguy 11776]

37 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Huh? Dallas rejected the Cowboys for Texas Stadium, ATT, and have no baseball history. The Rangers have always been in Arlington going back to the Spurs. They told the city that Frisco offered to build them a new indoor stadium and gave Arlington an opportunity to retain them.

I remember when The Ballpark was being built George W Bush talked several times on sports talk that it had been built to be retrofitted with a roof and AC.

I don’t get the need for a retractable roof on Globe Life though. An ugly design and they’ll rarely open the roof after May1 if ever. I don’t like it; it is a really sterile environment.

But where else can you take in a game, get a rotisserie chicken, and a 32 pack of Charmin?

 

[dec3169 501]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

FedEx Field isn’t even that old. It was built in 1997.

Exactly.  I was still in the military at that time, living in a military housing development in Landover.  They built that stadium RIGHT. BEHIND. HOUSING.  Crime shot up because our housing had no fencing, and the main road went thru to the stadium as well.  To be fair Landover is not a great place anyway but that brought all kinds of people right through our new neighborhood with all new targets houses.

[TrashMaster G 17388]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Globe Life is still in a shitty suburb. Should have been built in downtown Dallas.

Dallas wasn't interested.  Arlington threw bucks at it.  How do you work around those facts, Mr. Wizard? 

 

 

51 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Should be.

20K seats is a big problem.

Toyota Stadium in Frisco isn't any bigger and has a bowl game.  And the FCS Championship.

[Blotto 23434]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Should be.

20K seats is a big problem.

Just from some quick googling, the college football field is 120 yds x 53.3 yds, and the MLS field dimensions are 110 yds x 70 yds. There isnt a ton of room in Q2 between the stands and the end line on each side of the field. It would be tight, I'm guessing. 

[jimmyjazz 45560]

7 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Just from some quick googling, the college football field is 120 yds x 53.3 yds, and the MLS field dimensions are 110 yds x 70 yds. There isnt a ton of room in Q2 between the stands and the end line on each side of the field. It would be tight, I'm guessing. 

Yeah, I think you're right.  The goal is 5 ft deep, so 5/3 yards, which makes it 113.3 yards from the back of one goal to the other.  Doesn't look like there is a ton of space past the goal:

[Schulz2.0 28771]

2 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Iowans' NFL loyalties are always interesting to me with several teams not too far away, but none in Iowa. One B-I-L is a huge Bears fans, another is a huge Cowboys fan, two different neighbors across the street have Vikings season tickets. A nephew is a big Packers fan, and there are a lot of Chiefs and Broncos fans.  Denver is still pretty far, but Colorado is just "on the other side of Nebraska." Aside from the Cowboys, the other teams are about 2-4 hours from parts of Iowa. 

My wife's uncle lives in Iowa City and is a big Chargers fan.

['stache 21774]

3 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

Huh? Dallas rejected the Cowboys for Texas Stadium, ATT, and have no baseball history. The Rangers have always been in Arlington going back to the Spurs. They told the city that Frisco offered to build them a new indoor stadium and gave Arlington an opportunity to retain them.

I remember when The Ballpark was being built George W Bush talked several times on sports talk that it had been built to be retrofitted with a roof and AC.

I don’t get the need for a retractable roof on Globe Life though. An ugly design and they’ll rarely open the roof after May1 if ever. I don’t like it; it is a really sterile environment.

Dallas voters didn’t want to whore themselves out to billionaire owners. A reasonable ask would work but can’t compete with low self esteem suburbs that will bend over and give these assholes all the ridiculous tax shit they want.

['stache 21774]

3 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Iowans' NFL loyalties are always interesting to me with several teams not too far away, but none in Iowa. One B-I-L is a huge Bears fans, another is a huge Cowboys fan, two different neighbors across the street have Vikings season tickets. A nephew is a big Packers fan, and there are a lot of Chiefs and Broncos fans.  Denver is still pretty far, but Colorado is just "on the other side of Nebraska." Aside from the Cowboys, the other teams are about 2-4 hours from parts of Iowa. 

Oklahoma is split between Cowboys and Chiefs with some Broncos thrown in and a few Packer backers. I had a friend in high school who liked the eagles but it was just to fuck with us most of whom were Cowboys fans.

Edited March 29, 2022 by 'stache

[Wulaw Horn 18981]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, I think you're right.  The goal is 5 ft deep, so 5/3 yards, which makes it 113.3 yards from the back of one goal to the other.  Doesn't look like there is a ton of space past the goal:

I forget where it was, but some venue had this as an issue and the proposed solution was to have both teams go the same direction on offense. You could have a 3 yard deep end zone that was only a goal line for a team to cross if they got a defensive TD on one end, and tried to run it back for a score.  This you would do, I guess, if it was really that important to play the game on a field the measured 113 yards instead of 120. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Wulaw Horn

[Wulaw Horn 18981]

Ha- I nailed I the first time and changed my post because I got skeeered that I made it all up in my head after I saw a seating chart with full sized end zones. 
northwestern v Illinois at Wrigley:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/20/sports/ncaafootball/20wrigley.html

[Big Frog II 511]

Arlington has some of their sales tax devoted to the Ranger's and Cowboy's Stadiums.  Dallas uses theirs for mass transit.  Dallas can't even pay to keep their police department fully staffed.  They really don't have the money for new football and baseball stadiums.

[Guest Lobo]

I'm guessing taking out the first row behind both goals would be a huge pain in the ass?  Any other bowl games played in MLS stadiums y'all can think of?  I promise brightly colored blazers to anyone who helps

[nnm 36100]

26 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I'm guessing taking out the first row behind both goals would be a huge pain in the ass?  Any other bowl games played in MLS stadiums y'all can think of?  I promise brightly colored blazers to anyone who helps

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisco_Bowl

played in 20,500 seat Toyota Stadium  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Stadium_(Texas)

 

Edit:  also:

https://www.curebowl.com/stadium/

Edit 2: But if you want a bowl game in Austin, just put it in DKR. Fort Worth does well with the Armed Forces Bowl in TCU’s stadium. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by nnm

[Beau Vine 54003]

I am completely shocked that the NFL is not coming to Austin!

[Texzilla58 4717]

Dallas voters didn’t want to whore themselves out to billionaire owners. A reasonable ask would work but can’t compete with low self esteem suburbs that will bend over and give these assholes all the ridiculous tax shit they want.

You should study som history. Arlington paid only for condemnations and road improvements. Jerry sunk about a billion into ATT. Arlington’s bond was paid off years ahead of schedule. Dallas voters never got a chance to vote numbnutts. Same as they treated Murchison. Laura Miller laughed Jerry out of her office as he was going to build on the river front which would have changed Dallas forever. It’s still a shithole. And they remain chained to that fucking cotton bowl for one game and some Mexican soccer.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21781]

Yeah but that one game in the Cotton bowl is better than all the games played played in Arlington put together

[Murfdogg21 4412]

5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

20K seats is a big problem.

Not for most non-New Years bowls

[Murfdogg21 4412]

55 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I'm guessing taking out the first row behind both goals would be a huge pain in the ass?  Any other bowl games played in MLS stadiums y'all can think of?  I promise brightly colored blazers to anyone who helps

Maybe be innovative and have the goal posts suspended from the roof above; or hologram like Tupac. 

[Guest Lobo]

Which would also solve our halftime entertainment woes.  

I'm sure they won't like the pitch getting fucking destroyed mid-season though.  

[TrashMaster G 17388]

10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Which would also solve our halftime entertainment woes.  

I'm sure they won't like the pitch getting fucking destroyed mid-season though.  

Bowl season is off-season for MLS

[Guest Lobo]

Just now, TrashMaster G said:

Bowl season is off-season for MLS

Oh shit, my bad.  My fucking calendar is more turned around than Marie's pot pie.  Wait.  I had something for this.  

We started talking about this with Austin Sports commission and Andy a few years back.  And I fucking forgot everything.  Not that I ever knew anything.  Alright, we gotta reboot this soon.  Who's with me? 

[Blotto 23434]

2 hours ago, nnm said:

Edit 2: But if you want a bowl game in Austin, just put it in DKR. Fort Worth does well with the Armed Forces Bowl in TCU’s stadium. 

That's the answer. I'd bet even the locker rooms at Q2 would struggle to accommodate a bloated bowl campaign football team. Austin is a destination city, so if you make the game on the 30th or nye, I bet it would draw pretty good size crowds.

But fuck anything that makes the city more congested over the holidays. 

[conVINCEd 21468]

3 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I forget where it was, but some venue had this as an issue and the proposed solution was to have both teams go the same direction on offense. You could have a 3 yard deep end zone that was only a goal line for a team to cross if they got a defensive TD on one end, and tried to run it back for a score.  This you would do, I guess, if it was really that important to play the game on a field the measured 113 yards instead of 120. 

This is a little odd to me.  I actually worked for tbe Dallas planning committee for the 94 World Cup, and the Cotton Bowl playing field had to be enlarged slightly to accommodate soccer.

[Wulaw Horn 18981]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

This is a little odd to me.  I actually worked for tbe Dallas planning committee for the 94 World Cup, and the Cotton Bowl playing field had to be enlarged slightly to accommodate soccer.

Soccer field is wider and shorter than a football field I believe. 

[AUinHsv 576]

Nashville is claiming their 1990's stadium needs replacing. Man their must be different standards for construction materials for a building that lasts 100 years and a stadium that doesn't make 30

[CooterBrown 17913]

Keep fucking American football out of Q2. Go play at House Park. 90% of bowls couldn’t sell it out.

[Pam Cummings 9581]

Yeah fuck the Bills honestly. Keep that choker team where it is. Austin doesn't need any more bullshit. Maybe everyone from Austin will stop bandwagonning them now.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[Guest Lobo]

People in Austin were on the Bills bandwagon?  Other than this thread and one news report, I didn't hear/see a single person mention the Buffalo franchise ever during the last 12 months.  

Sounds like we were leveraged just right by Bills ownership to get a new stadium.  Kudos to them for continuing to fool stupid people.  Good work if you can get it.  

Okay, back to our plan to land an NHL team. 

[Bateshorn 9904]

Dan Snyder’s lobbyists gonna be coming in hot to halls of the Capitol in Richmond this morning.

Snyder wants to be in the District at the old FedEx site, but because of politics I won’t go into, probably isn’t going to happen.  Maryland has more or less said they won’t get in a bidding war.  The stadium will be in the northern Virginia exurbs with at least a billion in public money.  They may also eminent domain land and give it to Snyder for private development .

Edited March 29, 2022 by Bateshorn

[TexArcher 37518]

6 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Soccer field is wider and shorter than a football field I believe. 

There is no standard soccer pitch, but they are generally wider than American football fields, sometimes by quite a bit.