CA to require solar on all new homes starting 2020

[DanRydell 799]

I cant quote for some reason.

You're quite uninformed.  By "broke", are you referring to CAs 6.1 BILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS?

Nice job.  What is the current debt? 


California’s state and local debt is 15% of their GDP, below the national average of 15.7% and below Texas’s 17.8%.

[workswithseed 2,111]

6 hours ago, whatup said:

High, very high. But its a tall order subsidizing all the Trump states. 

Fuck off back to cr.

[XYZ 2,154]

How much solar capacity is CA gonna mandate on every new home? A fixed number, or maybe proportional to the size of the house? How many years do solar panels last?

[Guest]

Still amused at whatup’s notion that Texas is a welfare state. 

[clapclapclap 9,000]

Something CA and TX have in common:  both have been invaded by fire ants, killer bees, and Sooners.

[Dahobbs 17,685]

14 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Still amused at whatup’s notion that Texas is a welfare state. 

Texas and California both subsidize other states. The principle was correct. 

[whatup 0]

When even federalist agrees and you don't, you must question WTF is wrong with you. 

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/17/red-states-tax-takers-blue-states-tax-makers/

[Pato del Muerto 52,604]

What are the assumed maintenance and repair costs for these solar systems?  How long do the cells last?

lets at least give lip service to this issue, rather than just say it’s initial cost is this, and lookie here the energy savings is more!

oh, but consumers are too stupid to understand such nuances  right, gil?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, whatup said:

When even federalist agrees and you don't, you must question WTF is wrong with you. 

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/17/red-states-tax-takers-blue-states-tax-makers/

You know where Stanco lives?  What does the article say about his state?  Why are you comfortable being disingenuous by discussing “red states” and not Texas?

[whatup 0]

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

You know where Stanco lives?  What does the article say about his state?  Why are you comfortable being disingenuous by discussing “red states” and not Texas?

1) I never said Texas

2) Texas contributes less than Cali and takes more than Cali and hence a welfare state in comparison. i.e. Cali subsidizes Texas to an extent.

Do you argue with that? 

Edited May 10, 2018 by whatup

[markstanco 12,612]

11 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

We're paying our bills, and putting money in the bank.  That's not "broke" unless you're a dipshit like Slorch.  Get back to me when CA files bankruptcy. 

Where did I say broke or filing for bankruptcy?  I said you are not in the black.  $427B I believe. 

[Bevo 13,601]

14 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

We are building the shit out of new homes. 

 

 

Where is the building taking place? Not LA and the Bay Area, correct? I would assume the center part of the state - valley up to Sacramento. I know where I use to live in Capitola, my little starter home is now in the 1 mil. range - so the coast is still not affordable. And, when I look at houses on zillow/trulia/realtor I am not seeing too much torn down for new construction.

[Dahobbs 17,685]

35 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Where did I say broke or filing for bankruptcy?  I said you are not in the black.  $427B I believe. 

What? Just like your mortgage, so long as you can make your payments with money left over, you are in the black. 

[Dahobbs 17,685]

56 minutes ago, whatup said:

1) I never said Texas

2) Texas contributes less than Cali and takes more than Cali and hence a welfare state in comparison. i.e. Cali subsidizes Texas to an extent.

Do you argue with that? 

Logically, that doesnt follow. Both Texas and California pay for themselves. California contributes more for other states, but that doesnt mean it subsidizes Texas. It just mean it subsidizes more of the other states than Texas. 

You were wrong to assume that the particular poster lived in a non contributing fly over state. But your general principle is true. Rex is just being Rex. 

[Biff Tannen 45,742]

This thread went about as expected.

[Dahobbs 17,685]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What? Just like your mortgage, so long as you can make your payments with money left over, you are in the black. 

And it is definitely true here since I am confident California has more than $427B in assets. 

[Bevo 13,601]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

And it is definitely true here since I am confident California has more than $427B in assets. 

California assets.

[Dahobbs 17,685]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

California assets.

Thread immediately improved. 

[clapclapclap 9,000]

29 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Where is the building taking place? Not LA and the Bay Area, correct? I would assume the center part of the state - valley up to Sacramento. I know where I use to live in Capitola, my little starter home is now in the 1 mil. range - so the coast is still not affordable. And, when I look at houses on zillow/trulia/realtor I am not seeing too much torn down for new construction.

Not sure about NorCal, but SoCal is still adding some infill and edge single family subdivisions in every county.  Even LA County is adding in Porter Ranch, Santa Clarita, and of course plenty of room for that in the Antelope Valley.  Such a big area that a subdivision here and another there adds up, though still not enough for demand.   

[Gil Bang 26,025]

Not sure about NorCal, but SoCal is still adding some infill and edge single family subdivisions in every county.  Even LA County is adding in Porter Ranch, Santa Clarita, and of course plenty of room for that in the Antelope Valley.  Such a big area that a subdivision here and another there adds up, though still not enough for demand.   

Quite a bit of activity here in San Diego County and a ton in the Inland Empire (Ontario-San Bernardino/Riverside)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Logically, that doesnt follow. Both Texas and California pay for themselves. California contributes more for other states, but that doesnt mean it subsidizes Texas. It just mean it subsidizes more of the other states than Texas. 

You were wrong to assume that the particular poster lived in a non contributing fly over state. But your general principle is true. Rex is just being Rex. 

His general principle is exactly wrong. And he was being presumptuous on the location of a poster’s home, and felt he could do so precisely because his general principle is wrong. 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

What are the assumed maintenance and repair costs for these solar systems?  How long do the cells last?

lets at least give lip service to this issue, rather than just say it’s initial cost is this, and lookie here the energy savings is more!

oh, but consumers are too stupid to understand such nuances  right, gil?

The install on the roof is where problems occur, leaking if it's not done correctly. Then when it has to be replaced in maybe what 15-20 years ?? The there's the issue of removing the system, and replacing it in the exact location without causing additional leaking issues.

[elfenix 34,332]

46 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Logically, that doesnt follow. Both Texas and California pay for themselves. California contributes more for other states, but that doesnt mean it subsidizes Texas. It just mean it subsidizes more of the other states than Texas. 

You were wrong to assume that the particular poster lived in a non contributing fly over state. But your general principle is true. Rex is just being Rex. 

it varies from year to year, some years texas is a donor, some years texas is a taker.  there's a huge federal deficit this year so more states will be takers, though california and new york, by losing their big SALT deductions, may retrench as donors. 

delaware will continue to be a donor, though that state is a ginormous leach in other ways. 

[deadshank 24,653]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

California assets.

1, 1

[deadshank 24,653]

It is going to be a glorious train wreck when solar panel installers show up to mount the panels on all of the tile roofs installed on CA houses.  

The good flashing kits are OK but expensive.  The mutts walking on the roofs for install and maintenance are going to torture the concrete and clay tiles

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

6 minutes ago, deadshank said:

It is going to be a glorious train wreck when solar panel installers show up to mount the panels on all of the tile roofs installed on CA houses.  

The good flashing kits are OK but expensive.  The mutts walking on the roofs for install and maintenance are going to torture the concrete and clay tiles

This.

 

 How is it that no one has designed a tile that could be the attachment point for the system ?? Boom trucks and or lifts should be the only way you get up on a roof anyway when there's slate, tile or metal in my opinion.

[irockalltherocks 55]

Doesn't California already pay other states to take its excess energy?

This article is almost a year old, but I believe it still holds true.

"California produced so much solar power on those days that it paid Arizona to take excess electricity its residents weren’t using to avoid overloading its own power lines."

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-solar/

[Gil Bang 26,025]

43 minutes ago, deadshank said:

It is going to be a glorious train wreck when solar panel installers show up to mount the panels on all of the tile roofs installed on CA houses.  

The good flashing kits are OK but expensive.  The mutts walking on the roofs for install and maintenance are going to torture the concrete and clay tiles

For aftermarket solar, yeah.  For new construction with solar part of the design, I'd think that broken tiles will be minimized.  I would expect that the panels will be installed at the same time as the tile. 

And there's not much maintenance required for the panels. 

[AeroHorn 754]

Regarding payback: Solar for southern states makes a lot of sense, with payback in 8-10 years. It makes more sense in California due to high PG&E rates. I have solar (4.25kW system) and it amply covers my needs.

Regarding mooching off non-solar homes: I pay a minimum bill every month ($12-13?) even when my meter is spinning backwards. The net balance is paid out yearly, but not at a retail rate (I wish) but at wholesale rate, which is a pittance. I have produced about 15% more than what I have consumed, apparently a gift to PG&E.

Regarding grid: PG&E implores us to temper our AC usage. They even paid me $50 per AC unit to install a governor to automatically switch it off when their grid load is high. This is reflected in their peak rates period (2pm-8pm). Guess when my solar is producing the most to help out PG&E, and hence my neighbors to enjoy their ACs uninterrupted? Despite higher day usage in summer, I contribute power May-September when it is needed most.

Regarding warranty/repairs: The solar panels are guaranteed by the manufacturer and the installer for 25 years. The inverter is 10 years, I think. I can open an app and look at all the metrics live right now. Something is wrong, I can see it, and SolarCity (Tesla) can also see it. Till now it has just been pressing the reset button couple of times.

Regarding construction: I am in south bay of the bay area. There is lot of dense housing construction everywhere, especially in San Jose, Milpitas and Santa Clara. I would say that easily >10k homes (condos) have been added. It is reflected in traffic, unfortunately.

 

[deadshank 24,653]

47 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

For aftermarket solar, yeah.  For new construction with solar part of the design, I'd think that broken tiles will be minimized.  I would expect that the panels will be installed at the same time as the tile. 

And there's not much maintenance required for the panels. 

The answer is just install standing seam on the roof facets where solar is scheduled and complete the balance in tile or shingles or whatever.   Solar flashing kits work much better when mounted to standing seam ribs.  

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, deadshank said:

The answer is just install standing seam on the roof facets where solar is scheduled and complete the balance in tile or shingles or whatever.   Solar flashing kits work much better when mounted to standing seam ribs.  

Meh, just use those new Tesla solar glass tiles that cost less than a slate roof don'tcha'know

[YChang 3,462]

Good on California. Hopefully there will be plenty of lessons learned for other states on what to do or not do. 

[RDCanecutter 26,473]

Y'all do me a solid, and drive up demand for silver. kthxbye.

[Smax 3,800]

19 hours ago, Bevo said:

Is California building new homes? I thought the legal resident population was declining. 

4k+ need to be rebuilt from the fire, I have concrete poured on 3 right now, 2 lots looks like we wont be able to build on for another year possibly 2 due to the the neighborhood water delivery system being compromised from the fire and is now releasing benzene.

I can't speak for the rest of California but there is going to be lot building going on in the Santa Rosa area for several years, unfortunately many who lost their homes are having to sell because they are priced out the neighborhood they lived in

 

[deadshank 24,653]

20 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Meh, just use those new Tesla solar glass tiles that cost less than a slate roof don'tcha'know

I still haven't seen any constuction details for their product.  

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, deadshank said:

I still haven't seen any constuction details for their product.  

It's a farce anyway right now. The cost makes slate or copper look like a 20 year roof.  I like the concept, but its mega expensive so I haven't even looked past the cost involved.  Lots of cheaper ways to get an efficient  energy system : geo thermal, High SEER forced air systems, spray in foam insulation.

[Bevo 13,601]

35 minutes ago, AeroHorn said:

Regarding construction: I am in south bay of the bay area. There is lot of dense housing construction everywhere, especially in San Jose, Milpitas and Santa Clara. I would say that easily >10k homes (condos) have been added. It is reflected in traffic, unfortunately.

 

There can't be much space available. Aren't Campbell and Morgan Hill already built out as well?

[Gil Bang 26,025]

1 hour ago, YChang said:

Good on California. Hopefully there will be plenty of lessons learned for other states on what to do or not do. 

I would expect that other western/southern states will be watching this experiment closely. 

[AeroHorn 754]

42 minutes ago, Bevo said:

There can't be much space available. Aren't Campbell and Morgan Hill already built out as well?

Lot of what used to be old commercial buildings are disappearing and replaced with 4 story blocks. For example, all old stuff along Montague in Milpitas and El Camino Real in Santa Clara is being replaced. Spin around in street view and you can see.

Milpitas: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4087045,-121.8953833,3a,75y,265.13h,69.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUQBD0e2BnZrGE4rUyf1Naw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Santa Clara: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3524835,-121.9734904,3a,75y,303.19h,85.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXrnU7kQNbgDkIUiPtI0uvw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Lhorn 4,964]

On May 9, 2018 at 4:25 PM, Gil Bang said:

We are building the shit out of new homes. 

 

 

I can attest to this.  Paving the fuck out of every hillside in the east bay to build high density housing.  Meanwhile the freeways were designed for the population of 2 decades ago.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,977]

I hope it works out for California and they at least figure out most of the bugs before other states look at adopting it. Although I bet spray foam insulation would save just as much energy.

[Gil Bang 26,025]

I'm not an expert, but I've never, ever seen, or heard of,  spray-foam used in CA. 

I've been out of construction as a profession for over a decade, so maybe it's being used...if it were, I would have expected to see it  in the homes that I buy and sell (realtor) and I would expect to be solicited for someone to do it in my very old, poorly-insulated  house. 

 

Edit: the googles show that there are contractors that do it here, and I saw something that said 10% of new homes get spray foam. 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Gil Bang

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,977]

Spray foam doesn't really work for existing homes very well. But it basically turns new homes into an upside down icechest. From what I've been told they actually have to install smaller AC units here or they wont run enough to knock out the humidity and the house will get a mold problem.

[Hellraiser97 183]

With the energy code in Austin now, you pretty much have to do spray foam ceilings and at least blown in bats in the walls to meet the code.


Fuck OU

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,127]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I hope it works out for California and they at least figure out most of the bugs before other states look at adopting it. Although I bet spray foam insulation would save just as much energy.

Why not both? 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

9 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I'm not an expert, but I've never, ever seen, or heard of,  spray-foam used in CA. 

I've been out of construction as a profession for over a decade, so maybe it's being used...if it were, I would have expected to see it  in the homes that I buy and sell (realtor) and I would expect to be solicited for someone to do it in my very old, poorly-insulated  house. 

 

Edit: the googles show that there are contractors that do it here, and I saw something that said 10% of new homes get spray foam. 

 

Spray foam turns your new home into a YETI ice chest.  It stops air infiltration 100%.  Stop that, and your energy consumption is cut significantly.  It's 2-3x the cost of batt or blown in cellulose, but it does what it's advertised to do. Add a conditioned attic in the mix and you further reduce HVAC costs.   Noise is cut by almost 100% from room to room or from outside to inside.  As it's use grows the cost decreases.

You can cut the cost by using a hybrid system of just a 1" spray in and batt our cellulose back up to achieve the correct R-value.  Point is it's a one time, passive cost that requires no maintenance or repair for the life of the product. Its not ugly like a bunch of solar panels up on your $500k terra cotta tile or slate roof on your multi million dollar home. Solar is not pretty or well integrated into the design world yet.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

8 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Why not both? 

How you doin' Rockafeller..........

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45,742]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Spray foam turns your new home into a YETI ice chest.  It stops air infiltration 100%.  Stop that, and your energy consumption is cut significantly.  It's 2-3x the cost of batt or blown in cellulose, but it does what it's advertised to do. Add a conditioned attic in the mix and you further reduce HVAC costs.   Noise is cut by almost 100% from room to room or from outside to inside.  As it's use grows the cost decreases.

You can cut the cost by using a hybrid system of just a 1" spray in and batt our cellulose back up to achieve the correct R-value.  Point is it's a one time, passive cost that requires no maintenance or repair for the life of the product. Its not ugly like a bunch of solar panels up on your $500k terra cotta tile or slate roof on your multi million dollar home. Solar is not pretty or well integrated into the design world yet.

 

I have spray foam and have been pretty happy the past 10 years.  Utility costs in the brutal summer are still decent ($200-$250 for 2k sq ft).

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,127]

Yeah the builder built this house with a 4kw solar array and spray foam insulation.  For this builder, there wasn't an option, its how they build all their houses, so it's just built into the price of the home.  I have a ~2400 sq ft house and my summertime energy bills, 73 during the day and 69 at night, run about $125-$150/month.  In the long run this is some good shit. I'd recommend this config to anyone who is building.  If its on an already existing house, I'd want to see the financials before I'd be willing to invest in either.  Because both are not terribly expensive as part of construction, but both are way more expensive to retrofit.

Also, that spray foam insulation up top is sprayed directly on the underside of the roof, so even though my attic isn't technically air conditioned, it doesn't turn into an oven like a typical Texas attic will. 

[deadshank 24,653]

On 5/10/2018 at 10:24 PM, Hellraiser97 said:

With the energy code in Austin now, you pretty much have to do spray foam ceilings and at least blown in bats in the walls to meet the code.


Fuck OU

Blown in batts?   How does that work?