Relocating Abroad

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,101]

I am not to the point where I can yet, but I wanted to have a thread where this could be discussed.  I am interested in hearing from the Surlyites who have done the big change and what are the dos and don't that they have.  

House Hunters International is my jam.  I love watching people.  I especially love it when the Americans complain about the size.  It is like they have never watched these shows before or researched the place they are moving to.

[CooterBrown 18,014]

From what I’ve seen, do it before age 45 because after that most countries don’t want you.

[HenryJames 66,075]

“I want an apartment in the center of Paris with a bathtub and yard. My budget is $1,000 a month.”

[Grimas 669]

What's the reason for the move and who is paying? (10 years and 5 countries as an expat but had a company paying and sponsoring the paperwork...) I've only seen one episode of the show but going as a retiree is a totally different experience than going and hoping to get a job as a local... (Our plan is to live overseas part time once the kids go to college/I retire...)

[Mo Horn 8,847]

1 minute ago, HenryJames said:

“I want an apartment in the center of Paris with a bathtub and yard. My budget is $1,000 a month.”

You forgot gourmet kitchen

[Mo Horn 8,847]

Just now, Grimas said:

What's the reason for the move and who is paying? (10 years and 5 countries as an expat but had a company paying and sponsoring the paperwork...) I've only seen one episode of the show but going as a retiree is a totally different experience than going and hoping to get a job as a local... (Our plan is to live overseas part time once the kids go to college/I retire...)

We have two plans. In 4+ years when we retire, if we don't have grandkids plan 1 is to move to Barcelona for at least a year. If we do have grandkids, Mrs. Mo ain't going anywhere but the Dallas area where they will be. TBH, I'm not sure what I'm pulling for. 

[HenryJames 66,075]

1 minute ago, Mo Horn said:

TBH, I'm not sure what I'm pulling for. 

I’d be pulling for pulling out.

[HenryJames 66,075]

“It’s twice your budget and is located above a cat strangling factory, but it has good bones.”

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

When I saw the thread title I expected it to be about importing a sugar baby

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,101]

19 minutes ago, Grimas said:

What's the reason for the move and who is paying? (10 years and 5 countries as an expat but had a company paying and sponsoring the paperwork...) I've only seen one episode of the show but going as a retiree is a totally different experience than going and hoping to get a job as a local... (Our plan is to live overseas part time once the kids go to college/I retire...)

I’d love to move for work.  I had thought that the gig that I moved to NYC for would mean that (and before my boss left, we were talking a 2-3 year move to Copenhagen), but COVID, him leaving, and some internal reorg meant I was out.  My new role might mean I can do that, but not initially.

I wish I didn’t like nice things.  Sigh.

[Grimas 669]

Moved from Houston to Kuala Lumpur with all furniture in tow and was easily able to find a place larger than we left for less than what I was paying for in Houston and the company paid most of that...  Then moved to Oslo where finding something more than 2000 sq feet was a challenge and had to pay quite a bit out of pocket.  2000 sq. ft for a nice house in suburbs of Copenhagen was easily $4500/month.  Very difficult to live in Scandinavia without work sponsoring it (and expensive as hell without the tax breaks and subsidies work provided...) Lived in Perth, Bangkok, Paris, Madrid and Barcelona as well but as shorter assignments (furnished housing).

Living in Asia, no need for a kitchen as its too cheap to just eat out.  In Norway, DK, Australia, you better have a kitchen as its too expensive to go out to eat often...

Wife and I plan to eventually down scale house in the US and then rent a place overseas for 6 months at a time once kids are gone. 1000-1500/ month for a 2 bedroom flat in Southern Europe or Asia is easy but not so much in Northern Europe or the larger cities. 6 months is ideal as you don't usually have to deal with visa issues. (I also have a EU passport so the EU is an easy option)

Top of our list is Thailand, Vietnam, Philippines, Spain, Italy, Croatia and multiple locations in Central America.

[South Austin 52,515]

I think people place too much emphasis on their careers. I wish we could all live in the mountains at high altitude. That's where I see myself in five years.

[ztejas 43,454]

Manhattan not what it used to be I guess.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Subscribed 

I want to live overseas. Just a bucket list item for me. I want to experience living in another country before I die. Wife says we can’t until her parents die. Ugh 

 

[South Austin 52,515]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Wife says we can’t until her parents die.

Do I need to spell it out for you?

[Neonmoon 38,129]

6 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I think people place too much emphasis on their careers. I wish we could all live in the mountains at high altitude. That's where I see myself in five years.

I just moved from Austin to the mountains. Blew up my career and said fuck it

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,101]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Manhattan not what it used to be I guess.

Lol. I love NYC.  But I’ve always wanted to live overseas, even if it’s just for a few years.

[RPM 26,322]

I looked at moving to Belize and it's not a bad deal. If you can prove $2K a month income and are over 50, you can live there tax free and have a 1 time exemption for importing your possessions. 

[52-80 19,161]

5 hours ago, South Austin said:

Do I need to spell it out for you?

hell, he even spelled it out himself

5 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

 

I want to live overseas. Just a bucket...

 

 

[ztejas 43,454]

4 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Lol. I love NYC.  But I’ve always wanted to live overseas, even if it’s just for a few years.

So you live in the greatest city in the world but just want to mix it up for a bit. Sorry if I'm not sympathetic.

[Incredulity 11,675]

7 hours ago, ztejas said:

Manhattan not what it used to be I guess.

Not since Snyder retired again.

[Post Oak 20,217]

In.  Wife and I want to move to France.

I'm a puppeteer for children's birthday parties. My wife sells crystals online.  We love to entertain. Our budget is 2.5million.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Post Oak

[956 Worldwide 34,715]

I’ve lived in five countries over the past 11 years, some great and some that were absolutely not on the list of places upwardly mobile Americans think of relocating to. One thing I’d say is that you’re not really an expat until there’s no Amazon Prime.
 

Doing it through work, preferably a larger organization that can help you outsource a lot of the administrative stuff, makes things incredibly easier on you. So does a spouse that it is local, if you go that route. Even so, get ready to just dedicate a lot of your life to minor humiliations that don’t seem so minor at the time, like standing around at a special government office that registers foreigners and doesn’t accept online appointments. Get ready to navigate a wandering labyrinth of visa applications and regulations that aren’t designed to make sense and functionaries that aren’t well paid enough to care. Especially true in Europe. Visiting Europe is NOT living in Europe.

Doing this for real is incredibly rewarding, and it’s an amazing adventure. It’s also not what you’re picturing. Even in the most amazing places, life settles into a routine with streaming video and takeout. You learn quickly that culture shock is real, and that it’s on you to adapt or suffer. And, ask about your motivations. A geographic fix usually does not exist, and any outstanding personal issues are usually exacerbated rather than resolved. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,101]

1 hour ago, Post Oak said:

In.  Wife and I want to move to France.

I'm a puppeteer for children's birthday parties. My wife sells crystals online.  We love to entertain. Our budget is 2.5million.

I love that Twitter.  It is fantastic.  

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,101]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

So you live in the greatest city in the world but just want to mix it up for a bit. Sorry if I'm not sympathetic.

Who wouldn't want to experience something different?  Judgy much?

[52-80 19,161]

12 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

One thing I’d say is that you’re not really an expat until there’s no Amazon Prime.

Top 3 biggest cons:

1. no Amazon (much less Prime)

2. no Walmart

3. no Tacos

[CooterBrown 18,014]

Portugal has the Golden Visa program. Buy a €500K property and you get a permanent residency permit. You can also get a passport relatively quickly under the program also.

[ztejas 43,454]

7 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Who wouldn't want to experience something different?  Judgy much?

Judgy much? I adore New York. I've been twice and both times thought it was the most incredible place I'd ever seen. Some of us aren't fortunate enough to have gotten the chance to live there. 

Nothing wrong with living abroad. Just taking the piss out of your post here.

[956 Worldwide 34,715]

Also, something to gnaw on: be prepared to accept that a substantial part of the local populace will be on the spectrum of thinly veiled exasperation to simple indifference at your mere existence in their space. There is a reason that expats tend to cluster together, and it’s not ONLY a lack of curiosity on the expats’ part. Plenty of people are simply not interested in getting to know or develop a relationship outside of their cultural bubble, and often those who are interested will still keep you in a separate compartment than “real friends.” Part of it is language, part of it is even deeper. Americans do it to. Some places are better, some are worse, but it’s always there. You will never truly be home, no matter how deep you plunge into the culture and language and lifestyle

[Js1 85,347]

I met a shit ton of ex pats living and working remotely in Antigua, Guatemala.  They all fucking loved it.  Really made me ponder it. 

[midtown 3,346]

I've already got a town picked out in Costa Rica.   Looking for better climate.  My second and last kid with be off to college in 7 years and I assume by then my mom will have passed.  She's about to be 85 and not in the best of health.    I looked at houses on my last trip.  You can get a house on a hill in a gated neighborhood for under $400k.   I'm focused on CR mostly because they have good health care and it has the type of activities I enjoy.  I thought about Belize but the health care isn't great and its too damn humid all the time.   I do need to check out Panama and Colombia which I've been to but haven't look at what the expat is like.  My Spanish is decent and could probably become fluent within a year.   I'll also maintain a condo in downtown SA for as  long as I keep working.   I would love to move to Asia but I also don't want to be +24 hours away from family.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by midtown

[CooterBrown 18,014]

15 minutes ago, midtown said:

I would love to move to Asia but I also don't want to be +24 hours away from family.

 

That's what's great about Central American and Caribbean. Travel time wise, it's no different than being across the country.  

[Grimas 669]

25 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’ve lived in five countries over the past 11 years, some great and some that were absolutely not on the list of places upwardly mobile Americans think of relocating to. One thing I’d say is that you’re not really an expat until there’s no Amazon Prime.
 

Doing it through work, preferably a larger organization that can help you outsource a lot of the administrative stuff, makes things incredibly easier on you. So does a spouse that it is local, if you go that route. Even so, get ready to just dedicate a lot of your life to minor humiliations that don’t seem so minor at the time, like standing around at a special government office that registers foreigners and doesn’t accept online appointments. Get ready to navigate a wandering labyrinth of visa applications and regulations that aren’t designed to make sense and functionaries that aren’t well paid enough to care. Especially true in Europe. Visiting Europe is NOT living in Europe.

Doing this for real is incredibly rewarding, and it’s an amazing adventure. It’s also not what you’re picturing. Even in the most amazing places, life settles into a routine with streaming video and takeout. You learn quickly that culture shock is real, and that it’s on you to adapt or suffer. And, ask about your motivations. A geographic fix usually does not exist, and any outstanding personal issues are usually exacerbated rather than resolved. 

100% agreed.  Little things suck like needing to get a drivers license and having to take the written test in a foreign language (A Texas DL means nothing in most places...).  Many foreign banks don't want to set up accounts for Americans - they don't like to deal with the reporting hassles the US requires... Make sure the country you are going to has a tax reciprocation agreement with the US as the US requires you to file a 1040 regardless of where you live and without the agreement in place, you could get taxed in both locations.

What we found is that expats tend to hang out together and that can be good and bad.  The community - and I'm talking about the expats across the ocean/10+ hour flight and not those in Central/South America as I have no experience living there - is usually pretty small so the groups form into cliques...  You get the Fortune 500 group of expats that are on the full ride package and are making and spending like the 1%ers - big houses, house keepers, drivers, etc,; the non-American but English speaking group of expats, the "teacher" group (expats there as teachers or embassy staff but not many of the expat perks) and then the mixed group - an expat married to a local and living like a local. Got kids in the international school - you'll probably get exposed/involved with people in all of these groups.  You'll probably gravitate to one of these groups depending on your situation.  It can get very "high school-ish" especially amongst the wives (most can't work because the work permits are usually for the husband...) A great phrase I heard many years ago: "When I die, I want to come back as an expat wife..."

I went back and forth to the US pretty often on the company dime and with business class and you get 2 bag allowance at 70 pounds a bag.  You get used travelling to the US as light as possible in one suitcase so you can load up on stuff to bring back with you (BTW - those Northface waterproof duffel bags are great for this). Little things like asprin, other over-the-counter meds, hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, "Cajun" spices, corn tortillas, Velveeta (note: Velveeta and C-4 look very similar on x-ray...), wife's makeup remover, ranch dressing mix, "pig-ears" for the dog, spray-and-wash just to name a few.  You could order Amazon things and have sent to a parent or friends house a week or two before a trip and have them store it for you to haul back as well.  (Pro-tip: interoffice mail can be used for smaller items if you have someone who will forward stuff to you...  Also, if you know people are coming over for a work visit, ask them to pick up and carry stuff for you as well...

Other things to consider if the company is paying - what happens to your current home and belongings?  Assuming you own your home - will they help you sell your home and will they pay to ship your stuff?  Or if you want to keep your place in the US, will they pay the management fees if you want to rent your place while you are gone?  Will they pay to store your stuff if you want to leave it in storage?  If you are thinking of keeping your place in the US and not renting it out and just leaving it "empty" until you return, make sure your insurance will cover the property as some policies will become void as they don't cover unoccupied properties...

If you are bringing your stuff with you, things like lights, most electronics and kitchen appliances won't work in most foreign countries (220V) so buy 220to110v transformers and put them in your shipment as they are cheaper here.  European light bulb sockets have a different bulb thread and won't safely screw into US light fixtures so also pack US bulbs.

On the positive side, if the company does pay for furniture relo on return to the US, you can pick up some fantastic stuff while you are there for much lower than buying stuff here.  We had custom furniture made for us in Asia and got some great French antiques at in Europe that we shipped back.  There are stories of people actually buying slabs of marble/quartzite/granite slabs to put in their container that they then used to redo their countertops in the US...  Same with cars and motorcycles... (Anyone interested in buying a restored 1968 Vespa - PM me...)

Got a pet you want to bring? Will the relo package cover your pets? My lab cost me $3-5K out of pocket for each international flight... (Most airlines won't let you bring your pet as "checked luggage" if you are flying into warmer climates between June 1 and October 1...  So the only option is custom cargo flights...) Is the US rabies shot for fido recognized by the country you are moving to? In some cases, you have to start the certification process 6 months before you ship the beast...

Another plus in the travel once you are "living there". In both Europe and Asia,  cheap flights - like $19 each way - were (pre-Covid) available.  Flying for a weekend to Phuket/Chang Mai or Prague/Barcelona/Venice was cheaper than flying from Houston to Vegas/Orlando...  Much easier to get to the "smaller places" directly once you are living in the area. 

[SurlyGator 865]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Judgy much? I adore New York. I've been twice and both times thought it was the most incredible place I'd ever seen. Some of us aren't fortunate enough to have gotten the chance to live there. 

Nothing wrong with living abroad. Just taking the piss out of your post here.

No matter how hot the girl is, there’s always someone out there who is tired of her bullshit.

 

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

[956 Worldwide 34,715]

38 minutes ago, Grimas said:

 

Got a pet you want to bring? Will the relo package cover your pets? My lab cost me $3-5K out of pocket for each international flight... (Most airlines won't let you bring your pet as "checked luggage" if you are flying into warmer climates between June 1 and October 1...  So the only option is custom cargo flights...) Is the US rabies shot for fido recognized by the country you are moving to? In some cases, you have to start the certification process 6 months before you ship the beast...

Another plus in the travel once you are "living there". In both Europe and Asia,  cheap flights - like $19 each way - were (pre-Covid) available.  Flying for a weekend to Phuket/Chang Mai or Prague/Barcelona/Venice was cheaper than flying from Houston to Vegas/Orlando...  Much easier to get to the "smaller places" directly once you are living in the area. 

Pets man. Harder to move than a child by orders of magnitude. 

[Sbbruin 21,856]

2 hours ago, midtown said:

I've already got a town picked out in Costa Rica.   Looking for better climate.  My second and last kid with be off to college in 7 years and I assume by then my mom will have passed.  She's about to be 85 and not in the best of health.    I looked at houses on my last trip.  You can get a house on a hill in a gated neighborhood for under $400k.   I'm focused on CR mostly because they have good health care and it has the type of activities I enjoy.  I thought about Belize but the health care isn't great and its too damn humid all the time.   I do need to check out Panama and Colombia which I've been to but haven't look at what the expat is like.  My Spanish is decent and could probably become fluent within a year.   I'll also maintain a condo in downtown SA for as  long as I keep working.   I would love to move to Asia but I also don't want to be +24 hours away from family.

 

Just don't go ziplining.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

House is sold, so no more mortgages ever, ever, ever, ever, ever again.  I design a lot of traditional architecture, some of it's European based.  

I wanna get a commission for a traditional French, Italian, German, English, etc. country home, and spend a month living where the inspirational architecture resides, and just collect ideas, and details as I work thru the new design. It would definitely be a great way to travel a little cheaper writing off expenses, etc.  

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

16 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I just moved from Austin to the mountains. Blew up my career and said fuck it

Really?  Where?  Or is this a Groundhog Day reference that I'm missing?

[utee94 15,824]

16 hours ago, South Austin said:

I think people place too much emphasis on their careers. I wish we could all live in the mountains at high altitude. That's where I see myself in five years.

Replace that with "remote island in a tiny beach town" and it's fixed for me.

 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

4 hours ago, Js1 said:

I met a shit ton of ex pats living and working remotely in Antigua, Guatemala.  They all fucking loved it.  Really made me ponder it. 

I love Antigua, Guatemala, but I would just like to point out for certain exes that it is not an island in the Caribbean.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

I read recently that relocating abroad is setting record numbers due to avoidance of taxes. I could see a situation where my wife and I could retire abroad and live like kings, but things would have to be really bad domestically. That's a big jump.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,907]

5 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I read recently that relocating abroad is setting record numbers due to avoidance of taxes. I could see a situation where my wife and I could retire abroad and live like kings, but things would have to be really bad domestically. That's a big jump.

So in other words in just a few years

[Neonmoon 38,129]

The main problem would be immigration. It's not really possible to move to France permanently unless a job moves you there or you open up a business in France. Portugal has that cool 500K gold visa program. I want to look into Ireland, Scotland, and Denmark. I doubt it is easy, especially if you are older. 

[Js1 85,347]

17 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I read recently that relocating abroad is setting record numbers due to avoidance of taxes. I could see a situation where my wife and I could retire abroad and live like kings, but things would have to be really bad domestically. That's a big jump.

You still have to pay US taxes.  Unless you're gonna renounce your citizenship, which is like $2300/person. 

[Chewbacca 7,780]

17 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I just moved from Austin to the mountains. Blew up my career and said fuck it

Where did you move to?

[Chewbacca 7,780]

18 hours ago, South Austin said:

I think people place too much emphasis on their careers. I wish we could all live in the mountains at high altitude. That's where I see myself in five years.

Housing in the mountains has gotten to an absurd level.  Might want to keep that in mind.  Also internet can be difficult.  We'll see if Starlink can deliver on the promises.  That would be a game changer for rural internet.

[South Austin 52,515]

18 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I just moved from Austin to the mountains. Blew up my career and said fuck it

 

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

Replace that with "remote island in a tiny beach town" and it's fixed for me.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Housing in the mountains has gotten to an absurd level.  Might want to keep that in mind.  Also internet can be difficult.  We'll see if Starlink can deliver on the promises.  That would be a game changer for rural internet.

Jesus H. Christ, you people.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

19 hours ago, South Austin said:

I think people place too much emphasis on their careers. I wish we could all live in the mountains at high altitude. That's where I see myself in five years.

Feels like this quote went over a lot of people's heads in this thread.  Well done.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

27 minutes ago, Js1 said:

You still have to pay US taxes.  Unless you're gonna renounce your citizenship, which is like $2300/person. 

Yea, I think that is what has set a record, people leaving but also the renouncement of citizenship. Crazy.

[gmr548 16,580]

From what I’ve seen, do it before age 45 because after that most countries don’t want you.

Unless you have a fat retirement account, then they roll out the red carpet and sell you a little villa for a dollar.

We have two plans. In 4+ years when we retire, if we don't have grandkids plan 1 is to move to Barcelona for at least a year. If we do have grandkids, Mrs. Mo ain't going anywhere but the Dallas area where they will be. TBH, I'm not sure what I'm pulling for. 

This is my exact logic for trying to get out of Houston/Texas. She wants to be close to our parents to keep an eye on them and for grandkids. I try to explain they will follow for the promise of a grandchild, it’s the biggest piece of leverage you’ll ever have over parents.