Relocating Abroad

[SydneyCarton 48108]

20 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Housing in the mountains has gotten to an absurd level.  Might want to keep that in mind.  Also internet can be difficult.  We'll see if Starlink can deliver on the promises.  That would be a game changer for rural internet.

Where exactly? Because I've been looking at property in the mountains, and by far it's still less expensive and you get way more than you do in the fucking Texas Hill Country. 

[Ag with kids 581]

15 hours ago, RPM said:

I looked at moving to Belize and it's not a bad deal. If you can prove $2K a month income and are over 50, you can live there tax free and have a 1 time exemption for importing your possessions. 

The Belize QRP is what this is called for those wanting to google it...

[Chewbacca 7780]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Where exactly? Because I've been looking at property in the mountains, and by far it's still less expensive and you get way more than you do in the fucking Texas Hill Country. 

The closer you are to a ski resort, the more expensive it gets.  If you stay more rural it will be a lot cheaper.  But yeah, the Hill Country has been nutty for years.

[Grimas 669]

39 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The main problem would be immigration. It's not really possible to move to France permanently unless a job moves you there or you open up a business in France. Portugal has that cool 500K gold visa program. I want to look into Ireland, Scotland, and Denmark. I doubt it is easy, especially if you are older. 

One option to chase is to see if you can get "birthright citizenship" by proving your ancestors are citizens.  I got an EU citizenship (as did my kids) because I could show my grandparents were expelled from one of the Baltic countries during WW2.  See the following article:  https://www.westernunion.com/blog/birthright-citizenship-countries/  (Ireland on the list).  Get a citizenship of any EU country gives to access and rights to live/work in any of the EU countries...  I got mine specifically so I could buy property in the EU, my kids could go to universities in the EU at local cost and in a worse case scenario of losing my job and needing "socialized healthcare", you can pay a "fine" (for not having contributed to the "system") and get onto their national system...

From experience, it's difficult to get a visa to work/live in Denmark without a company sponsor as they are seen as being one of the most socialist nations in the EU 9and the most "free" benefits. You basically need to get a special visa that designates you as a "specialized" worker that can't be done by a Dane. You get the tax rate lowered from 57% to 48% for up to 5 years (in addition to paying a 25% VAT on anything you buy so nothing is really "free" there...) Regardless what you read, they Danes are NOT the happiest people on earth... (I can start a whole other tread on this topic...)

[Ag with kids 581]

5 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

The closer you are to a ski resort, the more expensive it gets.  If you stay more rural it will be a lot cheaper.  But yeah, the Hill Country has been nutty for years.

My oldest daughter lives in Sugarloaf, right next to Big Bear Lake and it is SUPER cheap compared to down the mountain...

[SydneyCarton 48108]

7 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

The closer you are to a ski resort, the more expensive it gets.  If you stay more rural it will be a lot cheaper.  But yeah, the Hill Country has been nutty for years.

Ah, this makes more sense, as I don't give a fuck about skiing. Just want good views and general isolation. 

[Ag with kids 581]

I actually lived abroad until I was 10 years old so I've had the travel bug for my whole life.  I was born in Japan and lived in Germany and England before I ever "lived" in the US.

My GF and I have looked into both the Belize QRP and the Sint Maarten DAFT (Dutch American Friendship Treaty).  Both allow a relatively easy path to at least residency in the countries.

We like St Martin/Sint Maarten a little more so leaning that way right now.  Still have a few years until retirement so plenty of time to plan.  Goal would be to either purchase a place or rent for at least 6 months of the year - from there, exploring all the other Caribbean islands would be cheap and easy.

Home base is still N Padre Island so it won't suck to come back the the US either - just a different beach.

But...first, my GF has agreed we'll do a 6 month tour of Europe (she can't stand historical shit - she wants to be on the beach) right when we retire so we can get that off my list...

[midtown 3345]

I know people think living abroad means "not in Texas" but why has this turned into a moving to Colorado thread?

[MoJames 8244]

10 minutes ago, midtown said:

I know people think living abroad means "not in Texas" but why has this turned into a moving to Colorado thread?

Colorado sucks, no one come here.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

1 hour ago, Ag with kids said:

the Sint Maarten DAFT (Dutch American Friendship Treaty)

ha, that's fantastic

[Biff Tannen 45691]

1 hour ago, Grimas said:

One option to chase is to see if you can get "birthright citizenship" by proving your ancestors are citizens.  I got an EU citizenship (as did my kids) because I could show my grandparents were expelled from one of the Baltic countries during WW2.  See the following article:  https://www.westernunion.com/blog/birthright-citizenship-countries/  (Ireland on the list).  Get a citizenship of any EU country gives to access and rights to live/work in any of the EU countries...  I got mine specifically so I could buy property in the EU, my kids could go to universities in the EU at local cost and in a worse case scenario of losing my job and needing "socialized healthcare", you can pay a "fine" (for not having contributed to the "system") and get onto their national system...

From experience, it's difficult to get a visa to work/live in Denmark without a company sponsor as they are seen as being one of the most socialist nations in the EU 9and the most "free" benefits. You basically need to get a special visa that designates you as a "specialized" worker that can't be done by a Dane. You get the tax rate lowered from 57% to 48% for up to 5 years (in addition to paying a 25% VAT on anything you buy so nothing is really "free" there...) Regardless what you read, they Danes are NOT the happiest people on earth... (I can start a whole other tread on this topic...)

Ah, thanks for that reminder.  Wife is the last generation in her family that can get Italian citizenship.  Need to get on that.

[52-80 19161]

19 minutes ago, midtown said:

I know people think living abroad means "not in Texas" but why has this turned into a moving to Colorado thread?

Since Texas is its own republic, it technically counts

[RollLeft 5045]

5 hours ago, Grimas said:

100% agreed.  Little things suck like needing to get a drivers license and having to take the written test in a foreign language (A Texas DL means nothing in most places...).  Many foreign banks don't want to set up accounts for Americans - they don't like to deal with the reporting hassles the US requires... Make sure the country you are going to has a tax reciprocation agreement with the US as the US requires you to file a 1040 regardless of where you live and without the agreement in place, you could get taxed in both locations.

What we found is that expats tend to hang out together and that can be good and bad.  The community - and I'm talking about the expats across the ocean/10+ hour flight and not those in Central/South America as I have no experience living there - is usually pretty small so the groups form into cliques...  You get the Fortune 500 group of expats that are on the full ride package and are making and spending like the 1%ers - big houses, house keepers, drivers, etc,; the non-American but English speaking group of expats, the "teacher" group (expats there as teachers or embassy staff but not many of the expat perks) and then the mixed group - an expat married to a local and living like a local. Got kids in the international school - you'll probably get exposed/involved with people in all of these groups.  You'll probably gravitate to one of these groups depending on your situation.  It can get very "high school-ish" especially amongst the wives (most can't work because the work permits are usually for the husband...) A great phrase I heard many years ago: "When I die, I want to come back as an expat wife..."

I went back and forth to the US pretty often on the company dime and with business class and you get 2 bag allowance at 70 pounds a bag.  You get used travelling to the US as light as possible in one suitcase so you can load up on stuff to bring back with you (BTW - those Northface waterproof duffel bags are great for this). Little things like asprin, other over-the-counter meds, hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, "Cajun" spices, corn tortillas, Velveeta (note: Velveeta and C-4 look very similar on x-ray...), wife's makeup remover, ranch dressing mix, "pig-ears" for the dog, spray-and-wash just to name a few.  You could order Amazon things and have sent to a parent or friends house a week or two before a trip and have them store it for you to haul back as well.  (Pro-tip: interoffice mail can be used for smaller items if you have someone who will forward stuff to you...  Also, if you know people are coming over for a work visit, ask them to pick up and carry stuff for you as well...

Other things to consider if the company is paying - what happens to your current home and belongings?  Assuming you own your home - will they help you sell your home and will they pay to ship your stuff?  Or if you want to keep your place in the US, will they pay the management fees if you want to rent your place while you are gone?  Will they pay to store your stuff if you want to leave it in storage?  If you are thinking of keeping your place in the US and not renting it out and just leaving it "empty" until you return, make sure your insurance will cover the property as some policies will become void as they don't cover unoccupied properties...

If you are bringing your stuff with you, things like lights, most electronics and kitchen appliances won't work in most foreign countries (220V) so buy 220to110v transformers and put them in your shipment as they are cheaper here.  European light bulb sockets have a different bulb thread and won't safely screw into US light fixtures so also pack US bulbs.

On the positive side, if the company does pay for furniture relo on return to the US, you can pick up some fantastic stuff while you are there for much lower than buying stuff here.  We had custom furniture made for us in Asia and got some great French antiques at in Europe that we shipped back.  There are stories of people actually buying slabs of marble/quartzite/granite slabs to put in their container that they then used to redo their countertops in the US...  Same with cars and motorcycles... (Anyone interested in buying a restored 1968 Vespa - PM me...)

Got a pet you want to bring? Will the relo package cover your pets? My lab cost me $3-5K out of pocket for each international flight... (Most airlines won't let you bring your pet as "checked luggage" if you are flying into warmer climates between June 1 and October 1...  So the only option is custom cargo flights...) Is the US rabies shot for fido recognized by the country you are moving to? In some cases, you have to start the certification process 6 months before you ship the beast...

Another plus in the travel once you are "living there". In both Europe and Asia,  cheap flights - like $19 each way - were (pre-Covid) available.  Flying for a weekend to Phuket/Chang Mai or Prague/Barcelona/Venice was cheaper than flying from Houston to Vegas/Orlando...  Much easier to get to the "smaller places" directly once you are living in the area. 

post more but write less. In fact no need to write anything at all.

[Spankytoes 1739]

Lived in London before I got married. Was a great experience...but I was young and single. Other than cost of living, I don't really see the appeal. I live in Long Island and the amount of times I go into the city for anything besides work is few and far between. I just don't have the desire to do it when most everything I want is at my fingertips in the suburbs. Moving to Thailand or Mexico seems great on paper, but after a week a mountain is just a mountain and a beach is just a beach. The person that said visiting a city is different than living in it is spot on. I don't get the enhanced life experience aspect because you had an apartment instead of a AirBNB. 

[Chewbacca 7780]

7 hours ago, midtown said:

I've already got a town picked out in Costa Rica.   Looking for better climate.  My second and last kid with be off to college in 7 years and I assume by then my mom will have passed.  She's about to be 85 and not in the best of health.    I looked at houses on my last trip.  You can get a house on a hill in a gated neighborhood for under $400k.   I'm focused on CR mostly because they have good health care and it has the type of activities I enjoy.  I thought about Belize but the health care isn't great and its too damn humid all the time.   I do need to check out Panama and Colombia which I've been to but haven't look at what the expat is like.  My Spanish is decent and could probably become fluent within a year.   I'll also maintain a condo in downtown SA for as  long as I keep working.   I would love to move to Asia but I also don't want to be +24 hours away from family.

 

I think CR would be my choice as well.  Solid healthcare, lots of outdoor activities, and it seems like it's fairly easy to do.  And it's easy to get back to the states.  I'm not sure I would want to be a full timer down there, but I could see my wife and I having a place down there where we spend roughly half the year.

[midtown 3345]

4 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I think CR would be my choice as well.

The biggest drawback for most is that despite the reputation it is not exactly inexpensive.   In fact I think I read on some ex pat blog that's its the most expensive in central and south America. 

[Chewbacca 7780]

8 minutes ago, midtown said:

The biggest drawback for most is that despite the reputation it is not exactly inexpensive.   In fact I think I read on some ex pat blog that's its the most expensive in central and south America. 

True, although I'm not necessarily looking for cheapest.  Because cheapest is going to have shit healthcare.

[Updawg 2266]

Ah, thanks for that reminder.  Wife is the last generation in her family that can get Italian citizenship.  Need to get on that.

She should look into it

I did my Irish citizenship that way and luckily before my daughter was born so she got it as well.

[conVINCEd 21469]

How far back can you go to get citizenship in a European country? 

[Gil Bang 25960]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:30 PM, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

  I especially love it when the Americans complain about the size.  

It's never big enough for american women

3 hours ago, Ag with kids said:

My oldest daughter lives in Sugarloaf, right next to Big Bear Lake and it is SUPER cheap compared to down the mountain...

Yeah, but getting down the mountain to work in the IE sucks balls.  Plus, there's some real weirdos in them hills.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

41 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

It's never big enough for american women

Yeah, but getting down the mountain to work in the IE sucks balls.  Plus, there's some real weirdos in them hills.  

YUP.  There are.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

How far back can you go to get citizenship in a European country? 

Depends on the country.  Ireland is grandparents, which pissed me off. The great grandfather was kicked out of Ireland, and came here.  

I could live I Ireland very easily. Such an amazingly beautiful island, and the people are friendly everywhere, especially in the pubs.

[conVINCEd 21469]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Depends on the country.  Ireland is grandparents, which pissed me off. The great grandfather was kicked out of Ireland, and came here.  

I could live I Ireland very easily. Such an amazingly beautiful island, and the people are friendly everywhere, especially in the pubs.

I got Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and the UK.  Great grandparents in Germany would be the most recent.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I got Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and the UK.  Great grandparents in Germany would be the most recent.

Yeah, I think we have some French Huguenot in there somewhere, but much further back than great grandparents.

[conVINCEd 21469]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah, I think we have some French Huguenot in there somewhere, but much further back than great grandparents.

If I could actually get German citizenship I would do it yesterday as an insurance policy.  Great grandfather was some kind of war hero in WWI.

[Chopper 17235]

We lived in 3 euro countries over a period of 4 years about 17 years ago. It was amazing.

First rec I'd have is to travel light. Chances are you'll want to hop around and the more crap you have to move the more painful moving becomes.

Visa and tax implications. Get those figured out well before you leave.

Try living in more than one country if possible.

Use google fi for cell service.

Depending on the country getting a bank account can be troublesome. I lived in London, was totally legal with visa, job, etc and getting a bank account took at least 3 separate trips to the bank. Red tape is everywhere.

The process in many countries for buying real property is very different and more time consuming than how we do it.

Portugal's golden visa program, mentioned above, is pretty easy if you have the bucks.

There are a lot of countries that allow stays of up to 6 months and you can hop around without bothering with a visa.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Chopper

[conVINCEd 21469]

37 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah, I think we have some French Huguenot in there somewhere, but much further back than great grandparents.

Probably a good idea for the Huguenots to get out when they did.

Edited August 10, 2021 by conVINCEd

[Murfdogg21 4412]

13 hours ago, ztejas said:

Judgy much? I adore New York. I've been twice

Lolz

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

2 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

How far back can you go to get citizenship in a European country? 

I did the research with my family, and I am fucked. 

My dad's side, his father's family came in 1705 with Lord Baltimore from England.  His mother's family came over from Germany in 1710.

My mom's side, her dad's family, the English and Irish ancestors came over pre-1700 and mixed with the Cherokee (fun stuff). Her mom's family, over from England even before that.  

So I have no fucking shot.  I have an ancestor who was descended from Catherine of Valois through Jasper Tudor (bastard daughter), so I got that going for me, which is nice.

[conVINCEd 21469]

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I did the research with my family, and I am fucked. 

My dad's side, his father's family came in 1705 with Lord Baltimore from England.  His mother's family came over from Germany in 1710.

My mom's side, her dad's family, the English and Irish ancestors came over pre-1700 and mixed with the Cherokee (fun stuff). Her mom's family, over from England even before that.  

So I have no fucking shot.  I have an ancestor who was descended from Catherine of Valois through Jasper Tudor (bastard daughter), so I got that going for me, which is nice.

A brief search tells me I might have a chance with German great-grandparents on my dad’s side.  The military thing can’t hurt if it’s a judgment call.  My mom’s side witnessed the Salem witch trials, so no hope there.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

Just now, conVINCEd said:

A brief search tells me I might have a chance with German great-grandparents on my dad’s side.  The military thing can’t hurt if it’s a judgment call.  My mom’s side witnessed the Salem witch trials, so no hope there.

Yeah, I was really bummed.  My dad always described his maternal grandfather as a big, barrel chested German guy.  He was, just many generations removed.  Sigh.

[Ag with kids 581]

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

It's never big enough for american women

Yeah, but getting down the mountain to work in the IE sucks balls.  Plus, there's some real weirdos in them hills.  

I will say that coming down on 38 is better than the way I went up.

 

But, yeah..there's some weirdos up there.  plus tourons....

[tx 3 putt 76974]

15 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Portugal has the Golden Visa program. Buy a €500K property and you get a permanent residency permit. You can also get a passport relatively quickly under the program also.

 

this is the way to go. 

[staboner 4974]

On 8/9/2021 at 9:00 AM, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I am not to the point where I can yet, but I wanted to have a thread where this could be discussed.  I am interested in hearing from the Surlyites who have done the big change and what are the dos and don't that they have.  

House Hunters International is my jam.  I love watching people.  I especially love it when the Americans complain about the size.  It is like they have never watched these shows before or researched the place they are moving to.

as you know from my regular bitching on here we moved to Oz in 2019. If you are thinking of OZ I would recommend against it, but of course we all have different circumstances to weigh. I have a hard time seeing Australia being part of the world anytime soon. I did not fully appreciate how isolationist and docile the people here are. Life is good, business is parochial AF, and people just don't give two shits about anything new. Complete opposite of America. And if you ever want to see your family again then Oz is likely not for you.

Some general checks, some already mentioned:

- age. Not only the technicalities but also meeting new people, dealing with stress/change, being dynamic and flexible as things happen. I found myself untested here for some years and it took some time to get used to this more unstable and changing life. 

- you will have to file US taxes. If you have your own business (like I do) its fucking expensive and dumb as shit. US is right there with Eritrea as the two countries requiring expats to still file.

- healthcare and preexisting conditions - this can be a bit of a pain in the ass for some time. Records, all that jazz. 

- really connect via work best you can. Try to find people on similar paths if you can and talk to as many as you can. The true nature of their journey is hard to understand at first, but with some energy and motivation I think you could get some confidence on when/where the path is best for you. I have met with various Americans (via LinkedIn) looking to relocate to Oz and have offered advice. Prob obvious advice for you with work, but don't under-utilitize it.

- you lose so many small things in your life that you have to replace. You will never be fully prepared for it. 

I am sure I can think of many more. I am looking at Oz still, but less so, Canada, And Europe (where I am a citizen almost) which helps. Maybe Cyprus with fam but who knows. Lots of problems around. I'd honestly love to just be in Texas but I just can't stand too many things that we all bitch about here day on day, but really the main thing is there is just a better quality of life elsewhere, or at least there is for me and my family. hope this helps

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by staboner

[Sam Lin 3559]

9 hours ago, Js1 said:

You still have to pay US taxes.  Unless you're gonna renounce your citizenship, which is like $2300/person. 

That's the cheapest part of it. You also need to prepay the next 5yrs estimated taxes.

 

13 hours ago, Grimas said:

100% agreed.  Little things suck like needing to get a drivers license and having to take the written test in a foreign language (A Texas DL means nothing in most places...).  Many foreign banks don't want to set up accounts for Americans - they don't like to deal with the reporting hassles the US requires... Make sure the country you are going to has a tax reciprocation agreement with the US as the US requires you to file a 1040 regardless of where you live and without the agreement in place, you could get taxed in both locations.

What we found is that expats tend to hang out together and that can be good and bad.  The community - and I'm talking about the expats across the ocean/10+ hour flight and not those in Central/South America as I have no experience living there - is usually pretty small so the groups form into cliques...  You get the Fortune 500 group of expats that are on the full ride package and are making and spending like the 1%ers - big houses, house keepers, drivers, etc,; the non-American but English speaking group of expats, the "teacher" group (expats there as teachers or embassy staff but not many of the expat perks) and then the mixed group - an expat married to a local and living like a local. Got kids in the international school - you'll probably get exposed/involved with people in all of these groups.  You'll probably gravitate to one of these groups depending on your situation.  It can get very "high school-ish" especially amongst the wives (most can't work because the work permits are usually for the husband...) A great phrase I heard many years ago: "When I die, I want to come back as an expat wife..."

I went back and forth to the US pretty often on the company dime and with business class and you get 2 bag allowance at 70 pounds a bag.  You get used travelling to the US as light as possible in one suitcase so you can load up on stuff to bring back with you (BTW - those Northface waterproof duffel bags are great for this). Little things like asprin, other over-the-counter meds, hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, "Cajun" spices, corn tortillas, Velveeta (note: Velveeta and C-4 look very similar on x-ray...), wife's makeup remover, ranch dressing mix, "pig-ears" for the dog, spray-and-wash just to name a few.  You could order Amazon things and have sent to a parent or friends house a week or two before a trip and have them store it for you to haul back as well.  (Pro-tip: interoffice mail can be used for smaller items if you have someone who will forward stuff to you...  Also, if you know people are coming over for a work visit, ask them to pick up and carry stuff for you as well...

Other things to consider if the company is paying - what happens to your current home and belongings?  Assuming you own your home - will they help you sell your home and will they pay to ship your stuff?  Or if you want to keep your place in the US, will they pay the management fees if you want to rent your place while you are gone?  Will they pay to store your stuff if you want to leave it in storage?  If you are thinking of keeping your place in the US and not renting it out and just leaving it "empty" until you return, make sure your insurance will cover the property as some policies will become void as they don't cover unoccupied properties...

If you are bringing your stuff with you, things like lights, most electronics and kitchen appliances won't work in most foreign countries (220V) so buy 220to110v transformers and put them in your shipment as they are cheaper here.  European light bulb sockets have a different bulb thread and won't safely screw into US light fixtures so also pack US bulbs.

On the positive side, if the company does pay for furniture relo on return to the US, you can pick up some fantastic stuff while you are there for much lower than buying stuff here.  We had custom furniture made for us in Asia and got some great French antiques at in Europe that we shipped back.  There are stories of people actually buying slabs of marble/quartzite/granite slabs to put in their container that they then used to redo their countertops in the US...  Same with cars and motorcycles... (Anyone interested in buying a restored 1968 Vespa - PM me...)

Got a pet you want to bring? Will the relo package cover your pets? My lab cost me $3-5K out of pocket for each international flight... (Most airlines won't let you bring your pet as "checked luggage" if you are flying into warmer climates between June 1 and October 1...  So the only option is custom cargo flights...) Is the US rabies shot for fido recognized by the country you are moving to? In some cases, you have to start the certification process 6 months before you ship the beast...

Another plus in the travel once you are "living there". In both Europe and Asia,  cheap flights - like $19 each way - were (pre-Covid) available.  Flying for a weekend to Phuket/Chang Mai or Prague/Barcelona/Venice was cheaper than flying from Houston to Vegas/Orlando...  Much easier to get to the "smaller places" directly once you are living in the area. 

Solid post, you've clearly been there.

[Shady Ray 1633]

I made the big, permanent jump over ten years ago to Munich after some extended stretches in Eastern Europe/Russia and the UK and I haven’t once regretted it…but fuck if I didn’t have flashbacks of local bureaucratic waiting rooms reading the earlier posts from @956 Worldwide, @Grimas and @staboner. So much truth in these…particularly with respect to early-stage Government/Banking red tape bullshittery and the general social tendencies of the ex-pat community. And empty suitcases going back to the US to be filled with OTC medicines, spray-and-wash, rubbing alcohol for the return trip. God, is that shit true. And lint rollers... the 3M rollers are like gold for my wife and mother-in-law. 

 

As staboner said, you will never be fully prepared for the change until you do it…but the key to it all is to just recognize going in that - at least in Europe - the absolute bullshit you are going to deal with at the local City Hall, bank accounts, taxes, driver licenses, etc. is inevitable and is just part of the deal (and in the greater scheme, a very small part). Unfortunately, they tend to dominate the same exciting period of time prior to “the new wearing off” and I have known of multiple Americans who came here and let these early-stage obstacles impact their experiences negatively. But if you just accept it and do your best to find humor/value in getting these things resolved after you land, you will appreciate the time after getting settled in even more.

 

One other thing in addition to the great advice from the others: If your planned time abroad is long(ish)-term outside of the Anglosphere, I can’t stress the value of putting in some time on the local language…of course, if heading to Asia that's a lot tougher, but there is no excuse not to if in Europe, where you won't be starting from scratch linguistically (alphabet, basic pronunciation, etc.) Can you get by with just English throughout much of Europe? Yes, but your experience is going to be greatly diminished/limited. I am always surprised at people who have been here for years and are content to only speak the most basic level of German because they don't "need" it to get around in Munich or Berlin or in their office.

 

No need to be perfect, but try to get functional to some degree beyond just asking for directions and ordering food. Try to get to the point where you are able to communicate basic thoughts and concepts and read/follow local news/events, etc. In my experience, the ability to small talk about local events is invaluable in developing actual, substantive relationships with locals, which is a really, really fulfilling experience. As the others said, ex-pat social circles can be fun, but can also be a beating after a while, and the more options that you have socially the better if its a long-term deal. And 956 Worldwide is right, you are always going to be a foreigner to the locals and it will never be "home", but it is much more enjoyable to be considered as someone in that space between pure ex-pat and a local, and some knowledge of the language is the only way to truly get there, IMO.

[52-80 19161]

Theres always the option of serving in the french foreign legion

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Theres always the option of serving in the french foreign legion

Surely you Geste...

[midtown 3345]

This really should be two threads.   Ex-pat while working and raising kids and ex-pat when retired.  Moving out of the US while working is way more complex than the latter.

[thunderlounge 7837]

16 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

The person that said visiting a city is different than living in it is spot on. I don't get the enhanced life experience aspect because you had an apartment instead of a AirBNB.

 

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

There are a lot of countries that allow stays of up to 6 months and you can hop around without bothering with a visa.

These are where I’ve pretty much settled in on. 
 

Stay somewhere 6 months, then go somewhere else. Maybe back and forth, or wander to a new country. 
 

Was potentially open last spring, but with everything else going I decided to sit tight for a while. 

[Chopper 17235]

23 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

These are where I’ve pretty much settled in on. 

Keep your house in the US?

[midtown 3345]

29 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

Stay somewhere 6 months, then go somewhere else.

In Europe isn't the Schengen like 90 days?   And doesn't Schengen cover like 75% of Europe?  I guess you could keep going to England but where can you stay 6 months?  Or is this another region? 

[thunderlounge 7837]

3 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Keep your house in the US?

Most likely, yes. After a good downsize anyway. Right now the idea floating is more in line with snow-birding, just taking it a few steps further. 
 

Skirts some potential issues, raises some others. Have a green light from my boss, his boss, and HR since we’re remote anyway. Only stipulation is making meetings, even if it’s the middle of the night.

With everything going on it has probably kicked that a few years down the road. 

[Zepol87 9188]

32 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

Stay somewhere 6 months, then go somewhere else.

I tried to do this when I moved to Mexico but ended staying in Monterrey longer than I thought. I went down there found a house I liked paid 12 months rent when I signed my lease and worked remote. Last year I was there I did 6 months in Puerto Vallarta and 6 months in Guadalajara with the same deal. Paid 6 months upfront and had no worries. Not ideal by surly standards and probably not what the thread is for but I had a great time

[thunderlounge 7837]

1 minute ago, midtown said:

In Europe isn't the Schengen like 90 days?   And doesn't Schengen cover like 75% of Europe?  I guess you could keep going to England but where can you stay 6 months?  Or is this another region? 

Depends, but good point on some being 90 days (consecutive). I would have to look at my notes again, but IIRC it is something like 90 days consecutive, 6 months total, within a year. 
 

Going that route, say I was in the UK. Slip off to somewhere for a week or two and come back. If I understand it correctly, that resets the clock for a second 90 days. 
 

I may not be remembering correctly, it’s been a couple months since I was last looking. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

I would like to do both to be fair.  Live somewhere else while working, and ultimately retire overseas.  

I am not fluent in French, but I do know enough to get by, and I think I would learn it relatively easy if I was hearing it and speaking it every day.  I also know a little Spanish and Italian, but would love to learn them.  

For working abroad, I have almost made the relocation to London and Copenhagen, and realistically, if I were to do it, it would be to London or Geneva (with Geneva becoming higher and higher on the possibility list).  

For retirement, I was thinking Southwest France, Southern Italy, A Greek Island (I love Greece), or even Northern Spain (Galicia) or Portugal.  Corsica might be a good idea too. Still a ways to go on this, but it is something I think about.  I wish I could convince my parents to go in on me with a vacation property.  I have been dropping massive hints because I would need their help to renovate (My dad is really good at this), and I think it would be a great thing to have to be able to go to.

I watched the HGTV show with Lorraine Bracco buying one or two of those $1 Sicilian houses.  For all in around 200k, she had an absolutely stunning house that was quite large.  I might be able to buy a closet for 200k in NYC.  Maybe.

 

[thunderlounge 7837]

It’s been over 10 years now, but I stumbled across a couple that moved from WV to St Thomas, and documented the whole deal on a blog. By the time I started reading I was 3 or 4 years behind, and they had already found a place, moved, had jobs and most things handled. 
 

Not quite the same since no visa restrictions, but similar in other ways. 
 

There really were a lot of tidbits you could pick up that were mentioned, then moved on. You could kind of tell they may have been sore spots. 
 

But everything from registering a car, power fluctuations, dealing with a cistern, etc. 

All the good, bad, and ugly all laid out for one to read. It was a good read, and definitely an eye opener if someone had never really looked into it aside from that vacation bug to move. 

[midtown 3345]

44 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

Depends, but good point on some being 90 days (consecutive).

I only know this because of some research.   In Thailand several years ago ended up drinking with a table full of Americans who were living in Thailand without long term visas.  Every 90 days they book a $40 flight to somewhere for the wknd and come back and reset; same with CR.  Depending on where you are north or south you simply go to Nicaragua or Panama for the day and shop and have lunch and reset your 90.  Sounds like a giant pain in the ass to me to have to constantly reset your visa.  Something to keep in mind covid really screwed things up because all the borders were closed so the all the expats visas ran out and technically they all could have been jailed for fined.  The govt did make some extensions but it was still pretty messed up.

[Mo Horn 8847]

50 years ago, as a child, we lived in Mexico City for 3 years. We would have to come back to the U.S. every 6 months to reset. Our family rented a house owned by an American so never had to deal with that. I went to the American School so somehow they got us registered. Things have obviously changed since then, but it's still possible. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Mo Horn

[RDCanecutter 26446]

I lived in France and Mexico, had proper paperwork and complied with work laws at least 90% of the time. Those two countries probably are good examples of two types of countries where you might enjoy living.

France was in the Hard-to-get-into zone. I don't know how I would get to work there again. I got in on a "Scientific" visa through a UT exchange. Once I had that, I was good to go and could have kept getting more jobs there after my first gig expired, but I was a moron and did moron things instead, like take a job at A&M.

Mexico was Easy-to-get-into, but Medium-Difficulty-to-do-right. I did it mostly right because my Mexican employer helped me through the maze. If you wanted to keep your US job and work remotely, I don't think anybody would pitch a fit, you'd just have to leave every 180 days, then get another tourist permit when you come back in and you'll get another 180 days. You could keep a US bank account and just pull Pesos out of the local ATMs for a small fee, when I was there it was 99% cash but who knows now.

One way to pop the can open on a lot of countries is to become an English teacher. I am not saying "be" an English teacher, just "become" one, as in, get in with a school, do the minimum teaching you can as a hobby, they're using you you're using them and neither one cared, with any luck at the right place you are meeting all sorts of adult students who will become your network of how to navigate the new country. In Mexico I saw people in their 60s do this, now they probably have a Mexican goat farm or whatever their real dream was.

If you like old-school NYC from 1960s movies, that's what downtown Mexico City reminds me of now.