Relocating Abroad

[thunderlounge 7837]

40 minutes ago, midtown said:

I only know this because of some research.   In Thailand several years ago ended up drinking with a table full of Americans who were living in Thailand without long term visas.  Every 90 days they book a $40 flight to somewhere for the wknd and come back and reset; same with CR.  Depending on where you are north or south you simply go to Nicaragua or Panama for the day and shop and have lunch and reset your 90.  Sounds like a giant pain in the ass to me to have to constantly reset your visa.  Something to keep in mind covid really screwed things up because all the borders were closed so the all the expats visas ran out and technically they all could have been jailed for fined.  The govt did make some extensions but it was still pretty messed up.

Using the UK as an example again, reset wouldn’t really be a thing. Would be back and forth between there and the EU frequently enough it wouldn’t be a thing. If you plan ahead your reset really wouldn’t be much of a thought. 
 

I could see where it might take a bit more planning in other places.

 

[52-80 19159]

Not possible to loophole the Schengen short stay visa.  Period for 90 day qualification is a 180 day ROLLING window.  Not advised anyway, because without residency you have no bank account; without bank account difficult to rent; and in the end you'd be living a vagrant lifestyle.

Best thing to do is get a corporate transfer.  Once you're in, the *typical* rules for most countries is you'd have an annual renewal (formality cared for by employer, of course); then after a few renewals your residency is no longer bound to sponsoring employer and you can work for whomever you want.  A few years after that, it converts to permanent residency -- you don't even have to work and can live on the state dole!

Other thing about starting off sponsored is you'd have a much higher basis for compensation.  If you'd have sought employment as a "local" (despite needing visa sponsorship), you'd get local pay, and local pay in pretty much all of EU is for da poors.

 

[CooterBrown 18013]

The Bahamas has a similar rule to Portugal. Buy property worth X dollars and you get permanent residency. IIRC, Aruba and the Caymans are two others that are easy to retire to.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

I lived in France and Mexico, had proper paperwork and complied with work laws at least 90% of the time. Those two countries probably are good examples of two types of countries where you might enjoy living.

France was in the Hard-to-get-into zone. I don't know how I would get to work there again. I got in on a "Scientific" visa through a UT exchange. Once I had that, I was good to go and could have kept getting more jobs there after my first gig expired, but I was a moron and did moron things instead, like take a job at A&M.

Mexico was Easy-to-get-into, but Medium-Difficulty-to-do-right. I did it mostly right because my Mexican employer helped me through the maze. If you wanted to keep your US job and work remotely, I don't think anybody would pitch a fit, you'd just have to leave every 180 days, then get another tourist permit when you come back in and you'll get another 180 days. You could keep a US bank account and just pull Pesos out of the local ATMs for a small fee, when I was there it was 99% cash but who knows now.

One way to pop the can open on a lot of countries is to become an English teacher. I am not saying "be" an English teacher, just "become" one, as in, get in with a school, do the minimum teaching you can as a hobby, they're using you you're using them and neither one cared, with any luck at the right place you are meeting all sorts of adult students who will become your network of how to navigate the new country. In Mexico I saw people in their 60s do this, now they probably have a Mexican goat farm or whatever their real dream was.

If you like old-school NYC from 1960s movies, that's what downtown Mexico City reminds me of now.

I love Mexico City.  Not sure I would want to live there, but visiting, hell yeah.

[956 Worldwide 34715]

Do NOT do the visa run thing. The type of people who do this are the type of people you bump into out drinking in sketchy Thai bars on weeknights. Every weeknight. You are putting yourself at the complete mercy of local border control and their rules, whims, and greed. Unless you are prepared to one day be told to walk away and never come back to what you left behind.  Its never pretty when an American who believes they “live here” gets told “no you don’t.” 
 

 

[956 Worldwide 34715]

1 hour ago, thunderlounge said:

Using the UK as an example again, reset wouldn’t really be a thing. Would be back and forth between there and the EU frequently enough it wouldn’t be a thing. If you plan ahead your reset really wouldn’t be much of a thought. 
 

I could see where it might take a bit more planning in other places.

 

Most EU nations take a dim view of this sort of thing. You can’t get a “real” job with bank accounts and benefits. And eventually some border guard looks at your travel pattern and says “nope, you’ve clearly tried to move here without permission.” And you get put back on a plane to wherever you came from. 
 

[Doug E. Fresh 452]

I did 6.5 years in the UK (Aberdeen and London) that ended almost exactly a decade ago. All employer related, move both ways and housing paid, taxes covered. That duration in the UK ultimately enabled me to get citizenship so have a UK passport in addition to my US.  The first few years were challenging to settle in but the travel was amazing - all through Europe, Africa and Russia.

I always planned on moving back but didn’t realize it would take a decade to get it done. Finally said fuck it last September, sold the house and moved back to London in the middle of Covid and looming lockdowns. Did it all on our own with minimal outside help. That shit was much harder and more stressful at the age of 46 than the first time at a carefree 31. Also had a full house to move over. All that said, haven’t regretted it for a minute and glad to be back in Marylebone where I know loads of people and the neighborhood in general.

[Grimas 669]

I've purposely kept a few bucks in both a Danish and Norwegian bank account to keep them open in case we ever have to return.  It's a PITA because you have to report all accounts to the Treasury (FICA) yearly if you have over $10K combined in overseas accounts.  But at least if needed, I can transfer US funds into a European bank if we ever move there (So if you are ever in a corporate relo where they help you setup a local account, never close it...)

[thunderlounge 7837]

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Most EU nations take a dim view of this sort of thing. You can’t get a “real” job with bank accounts and benefits. And eventually some border guard looks at your travel pattern and says “nope, you’ve clearly tried to move here without permission.” And you get put back on a plane to wherever you came from. 
 

While I don’t disagree, that wouldn’t be an issue for myself. I wouldn’t be living, but keeping within the no visa required zone. 
 

More bouncing around like a tourist, not trying to put down roots.

Needing a local job or bank account wouldn’t be on my list. 

[Sbbruin 21855]

I'm living here tomorrow if it weren't for inconveniences like a job, a family, and responsibilities.  The marina where my boat would be is right across the bay, I'd be fishing multiple times/week, with not a care in the world.  San Carlos has a ton of ex pats, and good medical facilities (relatively), Guaymas is close by, and when you need to, the states are a 3-4 hr drive north.

https://encantadorealty.com/property/22-bahia/

[Grimas 669]

3 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I'm living here tomorrow if it weren't for inconveniences like a job, a family, and responsibilities.  The marina where my boat would be is right across the bay, I'd be fishing multiple times/week, with not a care in the world.  San Carlos has a ton of ex pats, and good medical facilities (relatively), Guaymas is close by, and when you need to, the states are a 3-4 hr drive north.

https://encantadorealty.com/property/22-bahia/

So what's the rent for a 3-6 month deal in the same area?  That's where I run the numbers and think - is it worth buying something when I can rent something similar for that time frame and if I don't like it at the end of the rental, I find another town/city/country and don't have to deal with maintenance and upkeep and can go somewhere else...

[RDCanecutter 26446]

Can a foreigner really "buy" a property in Mexico now? I know a while back it wasn't allowed for just anybody, but there were these convoluted lease deals where people would say they "bought" a place but it was really a long-term lease. Wouldn't be surprised if the laws have all changed.

When I was there, I think if you worked in the economy for 3+ years on the up and up, you could buy something.

[CooterBrown 18013]

20 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I'm living here tomorrow if it weren't for inconveniences like a job, a family, and responsibilities.  The marina where my boat would be is right across the bay, I'd be fishing multiple times/week, with not a care in the world.  San Carlos has a ton of ex pats, and good medical facilities (relatively), Guaymas is close by, and when you need to, the states are a 3-4 hr drive north.

https://encantadorealty.com/property/22-bahia/

Build out that old concrete dock and keep your boat there.

[midtown 3345]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

I'm living here tomorrow if it weren't for inconveniences like a job, a family, and responsibilities.  The marina where my boat would be is right across the bay, I'd be fishing multiple times/week, with not a care in the world.  San Carlos has a ton of ex pats, and good medical facilities (relatively), Guaymas is close by, and when you need to, the states are a 3-4 hr drive north.

https://encantadorealty.com/property/22-bahia/

Same situation.  7 years for a permanent move.  Probably 4 before I can leave for 3 months at a time without my kids and ex caring.

https://www.atenasbestclimate.com/Atenas/Alajuela/Homes/Atenas/Agent/Listing_249776327.html

[Sbbruin 21855]

1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

Can a foreigner really "buy" a property in Mexico now? I know a while back it wasn't allowed for just anybody, but there were these convoluted lease deals where people would say they "bought" a place but it was really a long-term lease. Wouldn't be surprised if the laws have all changed.

When I was there, I think if you worked in the economy for 3+ years on the up and up, you could buy something.

Yeah, it's still held in trust with a bank, but it is pretty ironclad.   99 year perpetual agreement.  The Mexican govt has gotten on board as they saw people getting skittish and didn't want to lose the dollars.

[Sbbruin 21855]

1 hour ago, Grimas said:

So what's the rent for a 3-6 month deal in the same area?  That's where I run the numbers and think - is it worth buying something when I can rent something similar for that time frame and if I don't like it at the end of the rental, I find another town/city/country and don't have to deal with maintenance and upkeep and can go somewhere else...

Yeah, it's just fantasy right now.  If this were to become reality, I would probably just sail down there and live on my boat until I found something "perfect", and to make sure I liked the area as much as I think I would.

[Sbbruin 21855]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Build out that old concrete dock and keep your boat there.

Too shallow.  But I could keep a cool fishing panga there.

[AngryDragon 270]

Lived and worked in Asia for 5 years after UT. Planning to get a long term visa in Korea or Thailand after COVID and spend most of the year hopping around Asia. Thailand has a 20 year "Elite" visa I'm looking at because they include 24 rounds of golf each year with it. 

[midtown 3345]

37 minutes ago, AngryDragon said:

Thailand has a 20 year "Elite" visa I'm looking at because they include 24 rounds of golf each year with it. 

That sounds random

[next2naus 439]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, midtown said:

I've already got a town picked out in Costa Rica.   Looking for better climate.  My second and last kid with be off to college in 7 years and I assume by then my mom will have passed.  She's about to be 85 and not in the best of health.    I looked at houses on my last trip.  You can get a house on a hill in a gated neighborhood for under $400k.   I'm focused on CR mostly because they have good health care and it has the type of activities I enjoy.  I thought about Belize but the health care isn't great and its too damn humid all the time.   I do need to check out Panama and Colombia which I've been to but haven't look at what the expat is like.  My Spanish is decent and could probably become fluent within a year.   I'll also maintain a condo in downtown SA for as  long as I keep working.   I would love to move to Asia but I also don't want to be +24 hours away from family.

 

Quote

 has the type of activities I enjoy.

Hookers and Blow

[Zepol87 9186]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Do NOT do the visa run thing. The type of people who do this are the type of people you bump into out drinking in sketchy Thai bars on weeknights. Every weeknight. You are putting yourself at the complete mercy of local border control and their rules, whims, and greed. Unless you are prepared to one day be told to walk away and never come back to what you left behind.  Its never pretty when an American who believes they “live here” gets told “no you don’t.” 
 

 

I never knew anyone who had an issue but they would usually work it with a trip to see family or something or I would go to an office that we had in McAllen for a few days. I never did the cross and turn around bit but I am the type that is hanging out drinking at sketchy bars on weeknights.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Zepol87

[rage-a-holic 4401]

4 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Mexico was Easy-to-get-into, but Medium-Difficulty-to-do-right. I did it mostly right because my Mexican employer helped me through the maze. If you wanted to keep your US job and work remotely, I don't think anybody would pitch a fit, you'd just have to leave every 180 days, then get another tourist permit when you come back in and you'll get another 180 days. You could keep a US bank account and just pull Pesos out of the local ATMs for a small fee, when I was there it was 99% cash but who knows now.

 

Mexico is cracking down on this, as a lot more people have been abusing the system since the COVID panic started. People who normally bounce back and forth every 180 days are being denied 6 month visas and told they can have a 7 day FMM or nothing.

Getting a temp residency here is not all that difficult and the income/savings requirements are pretty low compared to most civilized places.

[LABEVO 928]

Had a few people I knew did this via large corporate. Love the experience only because it was a huge windfall income wise and basically a constant vacation even though they had a local job. You never get integrated into the local community and emphasize the huge pain in the ass it was even with corporate money to set up standard day to day items like banks, utilities, etc. 

I think a lot of people under estimate how hard the cultural shock and lack of community will impact them personally. 

I have looked into doing this but figured that I could get the same result without the hassle by working remote and living abroad 1 month out of the year. You can stretch it out to 2-3 months if you want longer. I think most people would get their fix only doing 2-3 months a year if their job allows them to be remote.

[52-80 19159]

Everyone talks up the complexities of financials but for me hasnt been the case. Set up banking in multiple countries and its just a single extra form to fill. Even got mortgage too. Annual FATCA reporting literally takes 3 minutes to complete. 
 

You find generally the tax code and filing system (reporting, communicating, paying, etc) elsewhere is 10x more streamlined than in US. Whats mildly annoying is the chicken and egg dance of one tax domicile depending on the assessment of the other, so even though I have folks taxes doing my taxes, it still seems like it requires “management” year round. 
 

Barely facetious upstream about missing Amazon and Walmart. When e.g. you need a toenail clipper at 1am, or when you want to buy from a selection of more than 2…you cant fulfill that in most of the world. 
 

Everything else is ultra gravy tho. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

I like traveling overseas. But there is no place I would rather live than the USA.  My dream is in about ten years to buy a place on acreage in the Hill Country and another in Colorado.  Spend October to May in Texas.  And June to September in the mountains

[RDCanecutter 26446]

1 hour ago, rage-a-holic said:

Mexico is cracking down on this, as a lot more people have been abusing the system since the COVID panic started. People who normally bounce back and forth every 180 days are being denied 6 month visas and told they can have a 7 day FMM or nothing.

Getting a temp residency here is not all that difficult and the income/savings requirements are pretty low compared to most civilized places.

Thanks for the info. I already have a CURP that I plan to break out again one day if the stars align.

[midtown 3345]

Quote

I like traveling overseas. But there is no place I would rather live than the USA.  My dream is in about ten years to buy a place on acreage in the Hill Country and another in Colorado.  Spend October to May in Texas.  And June to September in the mountains

 

You can definitely unsubscribe from this thread then.

Edited August 10, 2021 by midtown

[Grimas 669]

My wife loved her trashy US shows like the Bachelor, etc while we were overseas and I needed to see my Horns football...  You will need to know how to setup things like a VPN (and possibly a DVR or a direct VPN into a friends router in the States) to be able to either stream or record US shows. 

Or you can dive into the "dark" world of streaming world of shows available online or getting a local to install a unblocked satellite box... (I've heard it's much easier now than a few years ago if you aren't technically inclined...)

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

24 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I like traveling overseas. But there is no place I would rather live than the USA.  My dream is in about ten years to buy a place on acreage in the Hill Country and another in Colorado.  Spend October to May in Texas.  And June to September in the mountains

My dream life is 2 months in Nice, 2 months on the slopes in winter, 1 month on the slopes in spring, 3 months in the outer banks, and the remaining 4 months traveling the world.

[Neonmoon 38129]

2 hours ago, LABEVO said:

I think a lot of people under estimate how hard the cultural shock and lack of community will impact them personally. 

People keep bringing this up, ha, but this is a selling point for me. 

[Sbbruin 21855]

2 hours ago, next2naus said:

Hookers and Blow

[RDCanecutter 26446]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

People keep bringing this up, ha, but this is a selling point for me. 

I was told that there are three stages:

1. OMG this country is so much better than home! The US sucks! Glad I am here instead.

2. OMG this country sucks. The people suck. I try to tell them how to suck less but then they ignore me, because they suck.

3. This is where I live. This thing is really cool, that thing, not so much.

[Buzzrock 14920]

I looked at moving to Belize and it's not a bad deal. If you can prove $2K a month income and are over 50, you can live there tax free and have a 1 time exemption for importing your possessions. 

Does investment income count? That’s 6% on $400K.

[Brisketexan 105144]

9 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I was told that there are three stages:

1. OMG this country is so much better than home! The US sucks! Glad I am here instead.

2. OMG this country sucks. The people suck. I try to tell them how to suck less but then they ignore me, because they suck.

3. This is where I live. This thing is really cool, that thing, not so much.

In my experience (well, family member's experience -- folks lived in Argentina, daughter lives in Canada, and they both have lots of expat friends who have lived many other places), this is accurate.  Love it, then bitch about it, then realize that anywhere you go, you just get a menu of different things that are awesome and different things that suck.

Exception: there ARE some places that stand out on the high end and low end, of course.

[RDCanecutter 26446]

21 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Depends on the country.  Ireland is grandparents, which pissed me off. The great grandfather was kicked out of Ireland, and came here. 

Years ago I was sitting in Italy talking to some random stranger, as I do, about my failing struggle to instantaneously find employment in Italy so I could stay there after a Guard deployment ended.

Stranger asked my grandfather's name. I told him. Stranger said it was a common Irish name (well it is) and to just apply for Irish citizenship, because as a college-educated drifter and officer, they'd snap me up. Then I could jet down to Italy and loll around in the sun all day.

"But my granddad didn't come from Ireland!"

Speaking to me as if to a child, he told me that somebody else's granddad did, with the same name, and so I should borrow that granddad.

If I'd been a little more Pikey I would have pulled it off.

[CooterBrown 18013]

Does investment income count? That’s 6% on $400K.

Yes. The source doesn’t matter.

[Updawg 2266]

How long ago was that?

When I did around 15 years ago I had to supply birth /death certificates, marriage license etc of my grandparents

Luckily a cousin had done a lot of the leg work already.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

20 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Years ago I was sitting in Italy talking to some random stranger, as I do, about my failing struggle to instantaneously find employment in Italy so I could stay there after a Guard deployment ended.

Stranger asked my grandfather's name. I told him. Stranger said it was a common Irish name (well it is) and to just apply for Irish citizenship, because as a college-educated drifter and officer, they'd snap me up. Then I could jet down to Italy and loll around in the sun all day.

"But my granddad didn't come from Ireland!"

Speaking to me as if to a child, he told me that somebody else's granddad did, with the same name, and so I should borrow that granddad.

If I'd been a little more Pikey I would have pulled it off.

Neeeever go full Pikey.

[midtown 3345]

People keep bringing this up, ha, but this is a selling point for me. 

All the expat blogs I've read have said this is the #1 reason why people move back. Americans are especially bothered by the fact that things don't function like they do in the states.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, midtown said:

47 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

People keep bringing this up, ha, but this is a selling point for me. 

All the expat blogs I've read have said this is the #1 reason why people move back. Americans are especially bothered by the fact that things don't function like they do in the states.

We're pretty spoiled.  It's why so many lose their shit when things don't work effortlessly. Fat, entitled, and lazy describes a good % of people walking around, and that's the ones outside trailer parks.

[Chopper 17235]

4 minutes ago, midtown said:

47 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

People keep bringing this up, ha, but this is a selling point for me. 

All the expat blogs I've read have said this is the #1 reason why people move back. Americans are especially bothered by the fact that things don't function like they do in the states.

Maybe the covid experience will reduce lofty expectations.

 

[DFWTexEx 276]

4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Yeah, it's still held in trust with a bank, but it is pretty ironclad.   99 year perpetual agreement.  The Mexican govt has gotten on board as they saw people getting skittish and didn't want to lose the dollars.

This only applies in certain areas near the shoreline (beach property) and along the border.  In the interior, you can own in the equivalent of fee simple, with all the same ownership rights of Mexican nationals.  The trust for properties in the restricted zones are for 50 years, I think.

[Sbbruin 21855]

5 minutes ago, DFWTexEx said:

This only applies in certain areas near the shoreline (beach property) and along the border.  In the interior, you can own in the equivalent of fee simple, with all the same ownership rights of Mexican nationals.  The trust for properties in the restricted zones are for 50 years, I think.

Exactly.  I thought it was 99 years, but you may be right.  And it is renewable after a certain number of years.

[midtown 3345]

Maybe the covid experience will reduce lofty expectations.
 

The realtor that showed me around said he had his best year ever. Mostly people figuring out they can work remotely. I assume as the low savings rates move through the retirement snake more and more Americans will be looking to expat

[Neonmoon 38129]

15 minutes ago, midtown said:

58 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

People keep bringing this up, ha, but this is a selling point for me. 

All the expat blogs I've read have said this is the #1 reason why people move back. Americans are especially bothered by the fact that things don't function like they do in the states.

I can see that, especially the lack of access to many things like in the US. My expectations would be lowered in that regard. I was speaking to the lack of community comment. Wouldn’t give a fuck. 

[midtown 3345]

I assume that's why there are expat communities that cater to expats and have a lot of the creature comforts they are used to

[burntorangebongos 10710]

I hear Monterrey and maybe Saltillo have HEBs. I would love to move there for part of the year. Fucking Mexico skeers me though. Cartels are not cool. Man, it would be perfect. HEB, a place in the foothills for the summer, pretty places to hike and see. and only 3 hours from south Texas. If only it were safe. *Sigh*

[midtown 3345]

I hear Monterrey and maybe Saltillo have HEBs. I would love to move there for part of the year. Fucking Mexico skeers me though. Cartels are not cool. Man, it would be perfect. HEB, a place in the foothills for the summer, pretty places to hike and see. and only 3 hours from south Texas. If only it were safe. *Sigh*

Chicago says hi.
Not saying there aren't a lot of homicides in Mexico but there are murders every freaking minute in the US.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

The HEBs in Monterrey are legit. 

[justhookit 4191]

On 8/8/2021 at 6:30 PM, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I am not to the point where I can yet, but I wanted to have a thread where this could be discussed.  I am interested in hearing from the Surlyites who have done the big change and what are the dos and don't that they have.  

House Hunters International is my jam.  I love watching people.  I especially love it when the Americans complain about the size.  It is like they have never watched these shows before or researched the place they are moving to.

So, I know a couple of people that have done House Hunters International in Costa Rica. I’ll put it this way, I pop in every few months on the Below Deck thread to remind them it is 100% fake.

In the case of HHI - in Costa Rica at least - they recruit people that have already bought a property. And none of them live there year round. I have no idea where the budget numbers come from, but the people I know literally didn’t have a budget. They just bought a place they liked in an area they wanted to be. One of them was actually buying a place for his pilot, driver and gardener to share which of course never got mentioned on the show. He already had a really nice home in CR.

More to your topic , most of the expats I know that live down there full time are freaking miserable. The ones I know in Panama are much happier. Just read the first few posts in this thread so far so I’m guessing you are referring more to Europe anyway so I’ll read up and comment if I can.