Need lawyer advice- charged a different cancellation fee than what I agreed to

[StassneyHorn 6617]

Doing my best to get straight to the details. If anyone knows anybody that might be able to help, please let me know. Not sure if the Better Business Bureau or anyone can handle the situation.

The flight school I attended is attempting to charge me 7k more on a new cancellation policy for leaving the program early. They never communicated this new policy publicly or privately to me until now. They haven't been able to tell me when the "new" policy came into effect through email either. When I first registered for classes in March 2020, I signed paperwork agreeing to the old cancellation policy below. This cancellation language is still on their website today. I refuse to agree to their new cancellation policy as I stand to lose an extra 7k when they added a new stipulation about forfeiting 10% of the loan amount.  However, I cannot get my loan refund back until I sign the refund agreement that has language stating "These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid process." How is it ok to have a new policy that adds this much money and not require any kind of consent?

https://vt-aaa.com/policies.php

Old Policy:

Cancelation of Training and Refund Policy

Once a student has begun their flight training program and chooses to discontinue their training program, the student will need to submit a Request for Refund document. Once initiated, the student will then meet with the Chief Pilot and Business Manager to discuss the reasons for withdrawal. Refunds will be calculated in the following manner: Administrative Fees to be charged:

• Before first license/rating completed: $2500
• If first license/rating completed: $3000
• If second license/rating completed: $3500
• If third license/rating completed: $4000

All flight training and instructor hours will be re-calculated at current retail rates (not discounted packages rates) and charged to the account. The remaining account balance will then be refunded to the funding source (Check, credit card, loan provider, etc.) This process may take up to 90 days to complete.

 

New Policy:

They want to charge a $500 admin fee (this isn't bad, it beats the $2500 I would owe), re-calculate the hours at current retail rates (same policy as above), but now they added language that "Student will forfeit the corporate guarantee (10% of loan amount) placed on their loan by VT-AAA per Fort Morgan State Bank policy.

 

 

[immamac 42868]

For that much money I'd rather just learn to fly lol

[TwiceHorn 31499]

Assuming you signed paperwork that doesn't have some kind of expiration date and includes the termination language reproduced above, they cannot change the terms without your consent.  That is, your signing new paperwork or otherwise indicating consent.

That's probably worth filing in small claims over.  The one out they may have, that is unclear from the language quoted above, is some policy from the student lender that requires the 10% forfeiture.  That might be a different contract with different terms.  But, because the lender seems to be requiring you to settle up with the school, it doesn't sound like that's their requirement.

Also, I question the wisdom of incurring debt to take flying lessons, unless (and even if) you plan to make that a career. Buuut, done bun can't be undone.

Edited August 10, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[StassneyHorn 6617]

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Assuming you signed paperwork that doesn't have some kind of expiration date and includes the termination language reproduced above, they cannot change the terms without your consent.  That is, your signing new paperwork or otherwise indicating consent.

That's probably worth filing in small claims over.  The one out they may have, that is unclear from the language quoted above, is some policy from the student lender that requires the 10% forfeiture.  That might be a different contract with different terms.  But, because the lender seems to be requiring you to settle up with the school, it doesn't sound like that's their requirement.

Also, I question the wisdom of incurring debt to take flying lessons, unless (and even if) you plan to make that a career. Buuut, done bun can't be undone.

My fuckup was thinking I would take out money for all the licenses I would need, instead of doing it one at a time. Cant be undone.

I called the lender, Fort Morgan State Bank, on friday and they do not require the student to forfeit 10%, he made it sound like the school needed 10% of the loan in an account as collateral (probably messing those words up). Nothing about the student 

[TwiceHorn 31499]

15 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

My fuckup was thinking I would take out money for all the licenses I would need, instead of doing it one at a time. Cant be undone.

I called the lender, Fort Morgan State Bank, on friday and they do not require the student to forfeit 10%, he made it sound like the school needed 10% of the loan in an account as collateral (probably messing those words up). Nothing about the student 

Then yeah, sue em in small claims court.  

[Gil Bang 25975]

Yeah, that's my non-lawyer advice too.  Small claims court judges tend to cut through the bullshit, and they don't like it when somebody tries to fuck over the little guy. 

[StassneyHorn 6617]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Then yeah, sue em in small claims court.  

Seems daunting ha

Found my original enrollment agreement that has the same cancelation fee, refund policy that is beneficial to me. Nothing in it has language about future amendments or superseding revisions, only 10 pages. Right now the only people I've been emailing back and forth with are a Business Manager and a Marketing Manager, I'd doubt they have some legal/compliance team but I'm going to ask for them tomorrow.

[Gil Bang 25975]

23 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Seems daunting ha

Found my original enrollment agreement that has the same cancelation fee, refund policy that is beneficial to me. Nothing in it has language about future amendments or superseding revisions, only 10 pages. Right now the only people I've been emailing back and forth with are a Business Manager and a Marketing Manager, I'd doubt they have some legal/compliance team but I'm going to ask for them tomorrow.

Just tell them to read the contract you signed, and otherwise fuck off. 

[ROFL BOX 6649]

Because we're nosy, why are you not continuing the program?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

He already learned the takeoff and flying part.  He doesn't need to know how to land.

[ROFL BOX 6649]

42 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

He already learned the takeoff and flying part.  He doesn't need to know how to land.

TBH, I was trying to find a way into that joke but couldn't quite make it work.

 

GolfClap.gif

[TwiceHorn 31499]

15 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

Seems daunting ha

Found my original enrollment agreement that has the same cancelation fee, refund policy that is beneficial to me. Nothing in it has language about future amendments or superseding revisions, only 10 pages. Right now the only people I've been emailing back and forth with are a Business Manager and a Marketing Manager, I'd doubt they have some legal/compliance team but I'm going to ask for them tomorrow.

I was going to suggest that (that maybe you are dealing with someone who doesn't know what's up).  You need to just say, that fee is not provided for in the agreement I signed. You can't just change up the agreement on a whim.  The "new" fee or policy doesn't apply to someone that didn't sign a contract providing for it.

Here's how you state it for small claims court:  I signed an agreement (copy attached) for flight instruction services.  The agreement sets forth fees due upon cancellation (see page x).  I have terminated the agreement and paid the fee called for by the contract (see check copy attached). The flight school now wants to charge me an additional termination fee of 10% of the loan amount, that is not set forth in the agreement.  Until I pay this, I cannot terminate my student loan.  The flight school has breached the agreement, and I am damaged by their breach."

The only remaining problem is formulating a statement of damages.  The above would probably get you a judgment that you need not pay the non-contractual fee.  That is probably costing you some bit of money in ongoing interest on your loan or some such.  They owe you that, too.

http://www.ccl.co.harris.tx.us/jp/civil/filing.htm

http://www.ccl.co.harris.tx.us/jp/forms/2013 APPROVED FINAL RULES - WEBSITE DOWNLOADABLE FORMS/CV-Petition, Small Claims Case 502.2.pdf

Edited August 10, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Bevo 13579]

18 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Buuut, done bun can't be undone.

Sounds like a dating motto.

[StassneyHorn 6617]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I was going to suggest that (that maybe you are dealing with someone who doesn't know what's up).  You need to just say, that fee is not provided for in the agreement I signed. You can't just change up the agreement on a whim.  The "new" fee or policy doesn't apply to someone that didn't sign a contract providing for it.

Here's how you state it for small claims court:  I signed an agreement (copy attached) for flight instruction services.  The agreement sets forth fees due upon cancellation (see page x).  I have terminated the agreement and paid the fee called for by the contract (see check copy attached). The flight school now wants to charge me an additional termination fee of 10% of the loan amount, that is not set forth in the agreement.  Until I pay this, I cannot terminate my student loan.  The flight school has breached the agreement, and I am damaged by their breach."

The only remaining problem is formulating a statement of damages.  The above would probably get you a judgment that you need not pay the non-contractual fee.  That is probably costing you some bit of money in ongoing interest on your loan or some such.  They owe you that, too.

http://www.ccl.co.harris.tx.us/jp/civil/filing.htm

http://www.ccl.co.harris.tx.us/jp/forms/2013 APPROVED FINAL RULES - WEBSITE DOWNLOADABLE FORMS/CV-Petition, Small Claims Case 502.2.pdf

Thanks this is really helpful. I haven’t cut any checks yet because they’ve been holding my refund “hostage” until I sign this new agreement. I was wondering about the interest as well, thanks.

[StassneyHorn 6617]

LOL this is the response I get back from the same idiot

 

xxxxxx,

 

The language on the Refund Form “These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid policies of VT-AAA” is the language that  overrides any previous policies of the school. 

 

I understand this is frustrating but this is the current refund policy that you are requesting a refund under. 

 

Kyle

[StassneyHorn 6617]

6 hours ago, ROFL BOX said:

Because we're nosy, why are you not continuing the program?

CFIs giving different knowledge on the same subject, the school only having the ability to do checkrides out in Lubbock (we're in New Braunfels), being told I was 3 lessons away from my checkride for 4 months, CFI approved me for my solo when I did not have the GPS knowledge at the time and the radio signal he gave me to communicate with him outside the CTAF did not work during the flight (had to call him on a fucking cell phone in a noisy C172), and in a lesson we nearly landed on top of another plane who came in short (blame goes around everywhere on that with CFI and controller and myself), telling me the clouds wont be a problem today and then wasting the next 90 minutes because they were a problem...

[Chewbacca 7780]

LOL this is the response I get back from the same idiot
 

xxxxxx,

 

The language on the Refund Form “These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid policies of VT-AAA” is the language that  overrides any previous policies of the school. 

 

I understand this is frustrating but this is the current refund policy that you are requesting a refund under. 

 

Kyle

What a dipshit.

[torre 1286]

2 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

LOL this is the response I get back from the same idiot

 

xxxxxx,

 

The language on the Refund Form “These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid policies of VT-AAA” is the language that  overrides any previous policies of the school. 

 

I understand this is frustrating but this is the current refund policy that you are requesting a refund under. 

 

Kyle

https://www.vaayu-group.com/

 

Their parent group is based in Washington state.    Would it be worthwhile to make contact  ?    And also explain the dilemma from your post #16.

[TwiceHorn 31499]

2 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

LOL this is the response I get back from the same idiot

 

xxxxxx,

 

The language on the Refund Form “These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid policies of VT-AAA” is the language that  overrides any previous policies of the school. 

 

I understand this is frustrating but this is the current refund policy that you are requesting a refund under. 

 

Kyle

Kyle,

You cannot unilaterally "supersede" the refund provision that is written into my contract with VT-AAA.  That's called breach of contract.  Unless you can show me a modification to my contract, signed by me, I will not be abiding by the "current refund policy" and will take legal action to enforce my rights under our contract.

This is not merely "frustrating," it is unlawful.

Edited August 11, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Chewbacca 7780]

Kyle,
You cannot unilaterally "supersede" the refund provision that is written into my contract with VT-AAA.  That's called breach of contract.  Unless you can show me a modification to my contract, signed by me, I will not be abiding by the "current refund policy" and will take legal action to enforce my rights under our contract.
This is not merely "frustrating," it is unlawful.

OP, just cut and paste this and email it back.

[RPM 26323]

10 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

LOL this is the response I get back from the same idiot

 

xxxxxx,

 

The language on the Refund Form “These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid policies of VT-AAA” is the language that  overrides any previous policies of the school. 

 

I understand this is frustrating but this is the current refund policy that you are requesting a refund under. 

 

Kyle

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Dear Kyle,

My current refund policy is that if I change my mind the school is required to refund any and all payments made by me within seven business days.  This policy supersedes any previous refund policy that I may have had, or that may be reflected in any agreement that I signed, and reflects my current refund policy.  I know it's frustrating, but this is the policy that I am requesting a refund under.

 

 

[Clintonaldo 2575]

This sounds like a lot like a marriage in a lot of ways....but cheaper. 

[SDG 3319]

On 8/10/2021 at 3:27 PM, StassneyHorn said:

LOL this is the response I get back from the same idiot

 

xxxxxx,

 

The language on the Refund Form “These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid policies of VT-AAA” is the language that  overrides any previous policies of the school. 

 

I understand this is frustrating but this is the current refund policy that you are requesting a refund under. 

 

Kyle

I’m no law dog but my 205 contract law class from 2001 tells me that won’t hold up in court.  One party can’t just change a contract without your approval.  

[StassneyHorn 6617]

They had a call with the new owners on Friday and asked if I’d agree to 5000 dollar penalty instead of 9000. Noped the offer pretty quick.

[DaysOff 7951]

I'm surprised Trump doesn't own an FBO and flight school. Villains and scumbags the lot of them.

[immortal13 4059]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:27 PM, StassneyHorn said:

LOL this is the response I get back from the same idiot

 

xxxxxx,

 

The language on the Refund Form “These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid policies of VT-AAA” is the language that  overrides any previous policies of the school. 

 

I understand this is frustrating but this is the current refund policy that you are requesting a refund under. 

 

Kyle

Just make this your closing argument in court. Oh, and no erasies

[StassneyHorn 6617]

Welp, called them up just now to see what the next steps were going to be. Kyle basically said this is what the company told him he could do, and he didn't want to fight on the phone (3x) after I politely told them you cant just say you have a new policy and force me to agree to it. He said it's the terms and conditions, I reminded him there's nothing in the terms and conditions of my enrollment agreement that say its subject to change. I come from a financial background and asked if he knew what positive or negative consent pricing was and got the "I'm just following my instructions" response. Wanted to make a Nazi reference but held back. He acted like he did me a favor by cutting the fee from 9000 on the loan guarantee to 5000.

Afterwards I spent 10 minutes on the phone confirming this was going to be under Guadalupe County Precinct 2 after the finest government worker known to man kept confusing entrance dr. for insurance dr, even after I said "enter, like entrance to a building." Going to have to call and ask for either an updated form or complete it in person as the one I need is dated 2017 online. Am hoping that because it's located in Seguin I can walk in there and get some kind of assistance on filling this form out or common answers to questions.

[Chewbacca 7780]

Do they somehow already have your money?  Just pay what you owe and tell them to fuck off.

[deadshank 24653]

On 8/14/2021 at 10:06 AM, StassneyHorn said:

They had a call with the new owners on Friday and asked if I’d agree to 5000 dollar penalty instead of 9000. Noped the offer pretty quick.

Did they have an admiralty flag next to them when they told you the new policy?

[StassneyHorn 6617]

33 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Do they somehow already have your money?  Just pay what you owe and tell them to fuck off.

Yea my loan money is with them and they keep a running tally of the cost of my lessons to take out from the loan amount. I am trying to leave, have them charge the correct amount and refund the rest of my loan money back through the refund process.

[Chewbacca 7780]

1 minute ago, StassneyHorn said:

Yea my loan money is with them and they keep a running tally of the cost of my lessons to take out from the loan amount. I am trying to leave, have them charge the correct amount and refund the rest of my loan money back through the refund process.

That sucks.  Guess it's small claims time.

[StassneyHorn 6617]

Filed the application. I couldn’t write an amount to sue as the loan takes on about 20 dollars interest per day and would constantly change, plus court fees. I wrote in the complaint that I am looking to have the court enforce the original contractual agreement and explained how I stand to lose 7k, and they are withholding the refund until I agree.

[StassneyHorn 6617]

I'm starting to think I may have fucked up the Defendant's section of the petition when I filed. I just wrote the name of the business, the address for their Administration building and listed the phone number from their company website. I think this may have been wrong as I've been seeing things on the web to reach out to a county clerk and the Assumed Name Records division to find the "registered agent of service." Anyone here have experience with that?

[TwiceHorn 31499]

43 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

I'm starting to think I may have fucked up the Defendant's section of the petition when I filed. I just wrote the name of the business, the address for their Administration building and listed the phone number from their company website. I think this may have been wrong as I've been seeing things on the web to reach out to a county clerk and the Assumed Name Records division to find the "registered agent of service." Anyone here have experience with that?

There's a listing for Vaayu Aerospace Inc., an NC Corporation registered to do business in Texas at 900 VANDENBERG RD HONDO, TX 78861-2016.   There's also a listing for Aviation Academy of America, at 2115 CREEKSIDE STE 530 NEW BRAUNFELS, TX 78130.

I'm guessing that one of those is the address where you sent it, because that's the address for AAA flight school.

Who is the other party on the contract?

You may have a problem with the technical name of the defendant.  It needs to be the party on the other side of the contract.   If that doesn't match one of the above, then we need to figure out the relationship between them, most likely wholly owned subsidiary.

For reference purposes, "DBA" records are of "assumed name certificates" for businesses doing business under an assumed name.  The county records are only good for businesses local to that county.  If a corporation or LLC does business under an assumed name, the certificate must be filed with the Secretary of State.  So, unless you are suing a strictly local business, as in Bob d/b/a Bob's Fine Meats or something, then you're really needing the Secretary of State business and corporate records.

The SoS has an online search service that costs a buck a search for all kinds of corporate records.  You must have an account, though.  You may be able to search the state records at the County Clerk's office, I don't know.

A free alternative for looking up corporate information is the Comptroller's Certification of Account Status, where all corporations and similar entities must pay franchise tax, annually, and if they have not, their ability to sue and defend in Texas is suspended.  https://mycpa.cpa.state.tx.us/coa/

Edited August 20, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[StassneyHorn 6617]

26 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There's a listing for Vaayu Aerospace Inc., an NC Corporation registered to do business in Texas at 900 VANDENBERG RD HONDO, TX 78861-2016. 

I'm guessing that's the address where you sent it, because that's the address for AAA flight school.

Who is the other party on the contract?

You may have a problem with the technical name of the defendant.  It needs to be the party on the other side of the contract.   If that doesn't match the above, then we need to figure out the relationship between them, most likely wholly owned subsidiary.

For reference purpsoses, "DBA" records are of "assumed name certificates" for businesses doing business under an assumed name.  The county records are only good for businesses local to that county.  If a corporation or LLC does business under an assumed name, the certificate must be filed with the Secretary of State.

The SoS has an online search service that costs a buck a search for all kinds of corporate records.  You must have an account, though.

A free alternative for looking up corporate information is the Comptroller's Certification of Account Status, where all corporations and similar entities must pay franchise tax, annually, and if they have not, their ability to sue and defend in Texas is suspended.  https://mycpa.cpa.state.tx.us/coa/

They originally had a school location in Hondo at that address above but they moved everyone to New Braunfels. There shouldn't be any employees in Hondo anymore as it's closed unless they're storing items there. If that info doesn't matter, then that appears to be the correct one. The Vaayu Group's website list VT-AAA as one of their business units in a dropdown so wholly-owned subsidiary could definitely be the option.

The address that I did use was 2115 Stephen’s Place, Suite 530 New Braunfels, TX 78130 cause that's where the admin building is located for VT-AAA. I figured to have it delivered there since that's where all the business/office people for the New Braunfels location work from (but they do have a location in Houston as well but never went there). So I believe that's my fuck up. They confirmed VT-AAA is still owned by the Vaayu Group (and is plastered on the website as well) so thanks for the foresight to search that. 

Who is the other party on the contract? The Enrollment Agreement I signed is only 10 pages long and references Aviation Academy of America. There are no signatures from other people so I'm unsure if that's what you mean

All things considered, I submitted/filed the petition yesterday, but haven't yet paid the filing fees as I thought I may have gotten ahead of myself. They make you go to a different website and input the dollar amount you need to pay for court fees and in the section for docket number they want you type "Small" for small claims. I didn't have a case # on the submission receipt emailed to me. I think that could give me wiggle room to re-submit or possibly amend.

 

[TwiceHorn 31499]

7 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

They originally had a school location in Hondo at that address above but they moved everyone to New Braunfels. There shouldn't be any employees in Hondo anymore as it's closed unless they're storing items there. If that info doesn't matter, then that appears to be the correct one. The Vaayu Group's website list VT-AAA as one of their business units in a dropdown so wholly-owned subsidiary could definitely be the option.

The address that I did use was 2115 Stephen’s Place, Suite 530 New Braunfels, TX 78130 cause that's where the admin building is located for VT-AAA. I figured to have it delivered there since that's where all the business/office people for the New Braunfels location work from (but they do have a location in Houston as well but never went there). So I believe that's my fuck up. They confirmed VT-AAA is still owned by the Vaayu Group (and is plastered on the website as well) so thanks for the foresight to search that. 

Who is the other party on the contract? The Enrollment Agreement I signed is only 10 pages long and references Aviation Academy of America. There are no signatures from other people so I'm unsure if that's what you mean

All things considered, I submitted/filed the petition yesterday, but haven't yet paid the filing fees as I thought I may have gotten ahead of myself. They make you go to a different website and input the dollar amount you need to pay for court fees and in the section for docket number they want you type "Small" for small claims. I didn't have a case # on the submission receipt emailed to me. I think that could give me wiggle room to re-submit or possibly amend.

 

Then it would seem that Aviation Academy of America is the correct party.  They have a registered agent for process:

AVIATION ACADEMY OF AMERICA, INC.
Texas Taxpayer Number	12003654980
Mailing Address	2115 CREEKSIDE STE 530 NEW BRAUNFELS, TX 78130
Right to Transact Business in Texas	ACTIVE
State of Formation	TX
Effective SOS Registration Date	11/03/2003
Texas SOS File Number	0800265503
Registered Agent Name	COGENCY GLOBAL INC.
Registered Office Street Address	1601 ELM STREET SUITE 4360 DALLAS, TX 75201

 

I see that you haven't paid the filing fee, so that probably means it's not actually filed. Go down there and change the service address to the Registered Agent, above.

Also, I would certified (or other trackable mail) a copy to the local fuckers and email one to Kyle.

It's a winnable lawsuit, even pro se.  But I think the chances are good that they capitulate and settle according to the terms of the contract before having to hire a lawyer etc.

The trickiest part for pro ses with corporate defendants is suing the right corporation/entity.  It's easier when you have a contract with them, but then getting the deets can be challenging.

Edited August 21, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31499]

Also, we probably need to draw a distinction here between technically correct service of process, which is going to require the constable to serve the registered agent, and actual notice of the lawsuit.

Typically, technically correct service is only necessary if you're going to have to take a default judgment, when the defendant doesn't answer within the time allotted, which is 14 days after service.  If the defendant answers the suit by filing a pleading in the court, how they received notice of the suit is generally not relevant.

It takes balls on the part of a defendant to receive notice of a lawsuit, whether technically correct or not, and fail to file an answer.  A default judgment can be set aside pretty easily, but it's not 100%.

So it's best, probably, to make sure anyone and everyone at AAA knows they've been sued in hopes that they will actually answer the suit, or, rather than go to that trouble, refund your money as originally agreed rather than have to hire a lawyer and go through the rigmarole.  It may take a lawyer to get through their collective thick skulls that they agreed to a termination and refund scheme and can't just change it.

 

[deadshank 24653]

When is the taping for the episode on Judge Judy?  I want to be in the audience dressed as Bert and repeatedly yell out “mule dick!”

Edited August 22, 2021 by deadshank

[StassneyHorn 6617]

I had wrote a long email to the CEO and cc’d the three people I had been working with, this is the response I got back from the ceo. I let them know at the end of the email I was going to go to court if not remedied. Haven’t responded back to the below yet.

 

“Good Morning XXXXX,

 

Thanks for your detailed message and inputs.  Please find my response below:

 

1. We are well within our legal rights to change the polices and procedures of the school as the business situation demands.  This is not itself unique to AAA or other business institutions.
2. When a student breaks the contract, he has originally signed with the school and claims for a refund the impact on the school is tremendous.  The reason being (1) AAA has acted as a co-guarantor for your loan and (2) paid the 10% deposit with FMS.  Without these steps, the loan would not have been sanctioned and your aspiration to become a pilot would not have materialized.
3. In essence, AAA has subsidized your loan by paying a 10% deposit and also underwritten your risk by providing a corporate guarantee that establishes that you will finish your course and pay back the loan to the bank failing which, FMS can pull our corporate guarantee.
4. We empathize and understand your current situation.  I will speak to Scott & Kyle later this week and understand if we can make an exception.
5. In terms of timeline, please note that we have indicated the process time and not a guarantee.  This is because of the time we need to unwind the overall process with FMS.  

 

Please note that we also reserve the right to counter sue for breaking a contract that we have underwritten and none of those rights are waived by this message.  All our other rights remain as well.

 

I will revert later this week with an update – hopefully we can reach a logical conclusion to this issue.

 

Your understanding is appreciated.”

 

Point 1 seems like bullshit. I would have to agree to those changes through an amendment.

point 2, I’m not breaking their contract. The contract says I can cancel at any point in the training, provided I pay the cancelation fees.

Point 5 is bleh, they say the process may take up to 30 days in my agreement.

The empty threat about counter suing for a contract they underwrote is annoying. That’s a contract between the bank and them, not one that I was party to or have ever even seen.

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by StassneyHorn

[StassneyHorn 6617]

Was also the only signer on loan app, not sure how the guarantor info fits in. Didn’t have a co-signer 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by StassneyHorn

[TwiceHorn 31499]

Your legal analysis is, I believe correct.  Whether your action is labeled "termination" or "breach," they spelled out their remedy right there in the contract and they are thus stuck with it.

I think what may be going on is if an institution has a lot of students on financial aid that wind up quitting, it jeopardizes their ability to get student loans for their students.  So the lenders may have changed the terms on them for that reason or some other reason.

And, no, you can't just change your practices and policies as business demands after you sign a contract binding you to certain policies and practices. Well, you can do whatever you want, but you may have to answer in damages for breach of contract.  Is this guy Chinese?/kinda racist

Regardless, they agreed to it, they're stuck with it.

[immamac 42868]

seems like it would have been easier to just finish your flight school

[TwiceHorn 31499]

Also, I assume that you have given written notice or whatever is required for you to properly terminate or cancel according to the contract?

Fairly obviously, you don't want to be hanging out anywhere.

And, I suppose there's nothing in your financial aid contract that supports what he's saying in terms of what you are obligated to do?

It's probably time to let them know that you have or intend to file suit.

[Gatorubet 30246]

Kyle,
You cannot unilaterally "supersede" the refund provision that is written into my contract with VT-AAA.  That's called breach of contract.  Unless you can show me a modification to my contract, signed by me, I will not be abiding by the "current refund policy" and will take legal action to enforce my rights under our contract.
This is not merely "frustrating," it is unlawful.

Deceptive practices claim added to contractual breach?

[StassneyHorn 6617]

27 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Your legal analysis is, I believe correct.  Whether your action is labeled "termination" or "breach," they spelled out their remedy right there in the contract and they are thus stuck with it.

I think what may be going on is if an institution has a lot of students on financial aid that wind up quitting, it jeopardizes their ability to get student loans for their students.  So the lenders may have changed the terms on them for that reason or some other reason.

And, no, you can't just change your practices and policies as business demands after you sign a contract binding you to certain policies and practices. Well, you can do whatever you want, but you may have to answer in damages for breach of contract.  Is this guy Chinese?/kinda racist

Regardless, they agreed to it, they're stuck with it.

CEO is an Indian dude living in Singapore I believe ha. Emailed them 7/12 on my intent to leave. Sent me the different cancellation form on 7/20 that kickstarted the shitshow. In my email he is responding to I let him I know I had been in contact with the JP and County Clerk, as well as a request to confirm the entity involved to be notified in case I need to pursue legal action. I pasted the above screenshot of the service agent. The whole co-guarantor situation is something I didn’t know or is even spelled out in my loan application as far as what I’ve read. Didn’t see it in my promissory note or any final agreements with bank.

@immamac, total loan amount is 90k. Ripping the band aid now is right call for me to get majority of money back.

[immamac 42868]

32 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

CEO is an Indian dude living in Singapore I believe ha. Emailed them 7/12 on my intent to leave. Sent me the different cancellation form on 7/20 that kickstarted the shitshow. In my email he is responding to I let him I know I had been in contact with the JP and County Clerk, as well as a request to confirm the entity involved to be notified in case I need to pursue legal action. I pasted the above screenshot of the service agent. The whole co-guarantor situation is something I didn’t know or is even spelled out in my loan application as far as what I’ve read. Didn’t see it in my promissory note or any final agreements with bank.

@immamac, total loan amount is 90k. Ripping the band aid now is right call for me to get majority of money back.

But are you still trying to learn to fly or are you just giving up on that dream

[Gatorubet 30246]

seems like it would have been easier to just finish your flight school

I believe he is going to put the system on trial.

[StassneyHorn 6617]

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

But are you still trying to learn to fly or are you just giving up on that dream

No, going back to a desk job. Got a Salesforce Admin certification and working on a few more. The process and school has killed that dream

[torre 1286]

2 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

I had wrote a long email to the CEO and cc’d the three people I had been working with, this is the response I got back from the ceo. I let them know at the end of the email I was going to go to court if not remedied. Haven’t responded back to the below yet.

 

“Good Morning XXXXX,

 

Thanks for your detailed message and inputs.  Please find my response below:

 

1. We are well within our legal rights to change the polices and procedures of the school as the business situation demands.  This is not itself unique to AAA or other business institutions.
2. When a student breaks the contract, he has originally signed with the school and claims for a refund the impact on the school is tremendous.  The reason being (1) AAA has acted as a co-guarantor for your loan and (2) paid the 10% deposit with FMS.  Without these steps, the loan would not have been sanctioned and your aspiration to become a pilot would not have materialized.
3. In essence, AAA has subsidized your loan by paying a 10% deposit and also underwritten your risk by providing a corporate guarantee that establishes that you will finish your course and pay back the loan to the bank failing which, FMS can pull our corporate guarantee.
4. We empathize and understand your current situation.  I will speak to Scott & Kyle later this week and understand if we can make an exception.
5. In terms of timeline, please note that we have indicated the process time and not a guarantee.  This is because of the time we need to unwind the overall process with FMS.  

 

 

 

 

point 2, I’m not breaking their contract. The contract says I can cancel at any point in the training, provided I pay the cancelation fees.

 

 

Respectfully, recommend you DM @TwiceHorn a copy of the contract you signed (refund portion) or post here if you find appropriate.