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Need lawyer advice- charged a different cancellation fee than what I agreed to

StassneyHorn
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31503

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On 8/9/2021 at 6:35 PM, StassneyHorn said:

Doing my best to get straight to the details. If anyone knows anybody that might be able to help, please let me know. Not sure if the Better Business Bureau or anyone can handle the situation.

The flight school I attended is attempting to charge me 7k more on a new cancellation policy for leaving the program early. They never communicated this new policy publicly or privately to me until now. They haven't been able to tell me when the "new" policy came into effect through email either. When I first registered for classes in March 2020, I signed paperwork agreeing to the old cancellation policy below. This cancellation language is still on their website today. I refuse to agree to their new cancellation policy as I stand to lose an extra 7k when they added a new stipulation about forfeiting 10% of the loan amount.  However, I cannot get my loan refund back until I sign the refund agreement that has language stating "These policies supersede previous refund policies to reflect the current financial aid process." How is it ok to have a new policy that adds this much money and not require any kind of consent?

https://vt-aaa.com/policies.php

Old Policy:

Cancelation of Training and Refund Policy

Once a student has begun their flight training program and chooses to discontinue their training program, the student will need to submit a Request for Refund document. Once initiated, the student will then meet with the Chief Pilot and Business Manager to discuss the reasons for withdrawal. Refunds will be calculated in the following manner: Administrative Fees to be charged:

• Before first license/rating completed: $2500
• If first license/rating completed: $3000
• If second license/rating completed: $3500
• If third license/rating completed: $4000

All flight training and instructor hours will be re-calculated at current retail rates (not discounted packages rates) and charged to the account. The remaining account balance will then be refunded to the funding source (Check, credit card, loan provider, etc.) This process may take up to 90 days to complete.

 

New Policy:

They want to charge a $500 admin fee (this isn't bad, it beats the $2500 I would owe), re-calculate the hours at current retail rates (same policy as above), but now they added language that "Student will forfeit the corporate guarantee (10% of loan amount) placed on their loan by VT-AAA per Fort Morgan State Bank policy.

 

 

As alluded to earlier, for whatever reason, it appears that the school has to put 10% skin in the game with the lending bank.  My guess would be that it is only actually paid if you default on the loan.  But the school is trying to get it back from you so it's independent of your repayment, which is a bit of a double dip.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31503

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9 hours ago, Gatorubet said:


Deceptive practices claim added to contractual breach?

Very likely.  But, I'm not sure it's worthwhile because it triggers a 30 day delay in filing suit or an immediate stay, plus mandatory mediation.  All for the possibility (not the certainty) of treble damages and nonexistent attorneys fees.

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StassneyHorn

StassneyHorn 6617

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4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

As alluded to earlier, for whatever reason, it appears that the school has to put 10% skin in the game with the lending bank.  My guess would be that it is only actually paid if you default on the loan.  But the school is trying to get it back from you so it's independent of your repayment, which is a bit of a double dip.

I just got it in email from the bank now  that the only time the school’s 10% amount is forfeited is if I default on my loan. The nerve of the school to attempt to lie to me. I did not see this coming /sarcasm

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HornOnTheBayou

HornOnTheBayou 8934

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11 hours ago, immamac said:

But are you still trying to learn to fly or are you just giving up on that dream

He was learning to fly, but he ain't got wings. 

Now he's running down a dream that never would come to him. Everyone else on the thread is working on a mystery, going wherever it leads. 

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HiggyBaby

HiggyBaby 2539

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No, going back to a desk job. Got a Salesforce Admin certification and working on a few more. The process and school has killed that dream

Go back to work. Take the hard earned money you’ll earn with sfdc and learn to fly on the side with a more reputable school. Pay as you go. Don’t give up on the dream. You will never live it down. If you need recs for a school let me know. Plenty of guys including myself went this route.
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StassneyHorn

StassneyHorn 6617

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After they said they’d get back to me Friday and did not, I fired off an email reminding them it had been 45 days since I brought this request to them and my contract said the process may take up to 30 days. 

got this response, telling me the timing is a guide not a guarantee. Still attempting to characterize this refund request as an exception and not as what’s contractually agreed upon.

“My apologies - we are still discussing internally to make an exception.  This action constitutes a significant amendment to our policies given the credit risk we are underwriting not only to you but all other students at AAA.  The timing of the refund as I had indicated is only a guide and not a guarantee.  Our first task is to find an exception for your refund amount and then the timeline.

 

We follow a rigorous assessment and our track record in refunding all past students on our policies and procedures has been per the book.

 

Please allow me some time and I will revert next week.”

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StassneyHorn

StassneyHorn 6617

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On 8/23/2021 at 9:25 AM, torre said:

Respectfully, recommend you DM @TwiceHorn a copy of the contract you signed (refund portion) or post here if you find appropriate.

This is the entire portion

Cancelation of Training and Refund Policy

Once a student has begun their flight training program and chooses to discontinue their training program, the student will need to submit a Request for Refund document. Once initiated, the student will then meet with the Chief Pilot and Business Manager to discuss the reasons for withdrawal. Refunds will be calculated in the following manner: Administrative Fees to be charged:

• Before first license/rating completed: $2500
• If first license/rating completed: $3000
• If second license/rating completed: $3500
• If third license/rating completed: $4000

All flight training and instructor hours will be re-calculated at current retail rates (not discounted packages rates) and charged to the account. The remaining account balance will then be refunded to the funding source (Check, credit card, loan provider, etc.) This process maytake up to 30 days to complete.

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Baboontyme

Baboontyme 2814

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I am going to stereotype for a second. I apologize if I offend anyone here. Fwiw I am 50% Lebanese and if he called you cousin in the email I would probably be throwing out some theories. He is Indian isn't he? Revert is a dead giveaway. You probably aren't going to get your money without a serious fight. 

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StassneyHorn

StassneyHorn 6617

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23 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

I am going to stereotype for a second. I apologize if I offend anyone here. Fwiw I am 50% Lebanese and if he called you cousin in the email I would probably be throwing out some theories. He is Indian isn't he? Revert is a dead giveaway. You probably aren't going to get your money without a serious fight. 

Name is Vijay

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StassneyHorn

StassneyHorn 6617

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Last name starts with a K and a shit ton of vowels. Lives in Singapore, I’m sure he’s Indian.

I’m allowing him to take his time, dig his grave, get all his shitty excuses and lies in email. Tell me about risk tolerance and credit blah blah blah. I know it was mentioned here in the thread, but a couple of friends of mine in the legal field also mentioned the Texas Deceptive Trade Act as well due to the still current advertising of the policy that is still up on their site and them originally claiming it’s a bank policy they forfeit their deposit but actually double dip upon my repayment coupled with their penalty. He attempted to backpedal once I brought this up. When they sent me the new refund policy they did not say it was a new, or when it was instituted. I had to push back against their italicized and asterisked language that said it overrides the previous agreement.

 They took the privacy policy page off their website sitemap, but I am still able to navigate to it today through other means. I have the emails from the Chief Credit Officer at the bank saying it’s not a fee meant to be passed onto the borrower as well.

If he’s gonna fuck around with my 90k loan, I’m gonna pursue a potential 3x penalty for them thru the deception act. If the interest buildup for this process stays under 20k and gives me the refund, I figure I’ll still go with a small court claim for failure to process in under 30 days that he says is “just guidance and not a guarantee.”

Edited by StassneyHorn
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105160

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You are going to fuck this up. Hire a goddamn attorney. 

This.

For example, “small claims court” is garbage - it’s not a court of record, judgments are worthless. You have to file in country court at law, at least. And you have some good and simple arguments…but you may not need to make them. Serve the right entities, and they still may default. Get your judgment, then garnish the bank accounts. Know how to do all those? A lawyer does.
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31503

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On 8/30/2021 at 8:11 PM, StassneyHorn said:

Last name starts with a K and a shit ton of vowels. Lives in Singapore, I’m sure he’s Indian.

I’m allowing him to take his time, dig his grave, get all his shitty excuses and lies in email. Tell me about risk tolerance and credit blah blah blah. I know it was mentioned here in the thread, but a couple of friends of mine in the legal field also mentioned the Texas Deceptive Trade Act as well due to the still current advertising of the policy that is still up on their site and them originally claiming it’s a bank policy they forfeit their deposit but actually double dip upon my repayment coupled with their penalty. He attempted to backpedal once I brought this up. When they sent me the new refund policy they did not say it was a new, or when it was instituted. I had to push back against their italicized and asterisked language that said it overrides the previous agreement.

 They took the privacy policy page off their website sitemap, but I am still able to navigate to it today through other means. I have the emails from the Chief Credit Officer at the bank saying it’s not a fee meant to be passed onto the borrower as well.

If he’s gonna fuck around with my 90k loan, I’m gonna pursue a potential 3x penalty for them thru the deception act. If the interest buildup for this process stays under 20k and gives me the refund, I figure I’ll still go with a small court claim for failure to process in under 30 days that he says is “just guidance and not a guarantee.”

Yeah, if you're going to go DTPA, you need to hire an attorney.

And the idea of going direct to County Court (At Law, probably) first is a good one. 

Problem is, you may have trouble finding one that (is any good and) will take it on a contingency.  Meaning RE-TAINER and hourly billing.  You should be able to recover attorneys fees, though.

Also, if you have a canceled check for any payment you made to them, dig it up and look at the back to find their bank, that's going to come in handy for the aforementioned writ of garnishment.

That the guy you're dealing with is Asian is telling.  Without being overly racist, unless they have operated in Western business environments for a long time, the Asian culture and philosophy just does not grok the concept of a contract finally fixing relations between two parties.  To them, it's a starting point for further negotiations.

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StassneyHorn

StassneyHorn 6617

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“Good Morning XXXXX

I am happy to let you know our committee on refunds have decided to grant you an exemption and we will follow the refund amount as per the old refund structure.

 We need some time to process the loan and you have my assurance that we will get this organized.

 Thank you for your understanding and patience.”

Fuckface finally gave up and I didn’t have to spend $1500 for a lawyer to send an email. Still gonna be in that ass looking over the final retail rates charged and the timing as the interest keeps accruing.

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