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Untold: Malice in the Palace

BurntOrangeBlooded15

By BurntOrangeBlooded15
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Blotto

Blotto 23485

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17 hours ago, BurntOrangeBlooded15 said:

Out on Netflix now.  Watched it tonight and it’s pretty fuckin wild.  I guess I never realized how much legal shit went on and that basically O’Neal’s career was over after that. 

That happened in the fall of 2004. O'Neal played all the way through the 13-14 season. 

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Deej

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6 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Fans getting their asses kicked had been a long time coming at that point. I think we’re due for another reminder of what a professional athlete can do to some drunk asshole who habitually steps over the line. 

Can we start with the El Tri fans?

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Baboontyme

Baboontyme 2809

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I watched it last night with interested eyes. I was a pretty big Pistons fan in those days. I remember that game specifically - where I was, discussing with friends after, calling my friend who went to the game from a payphone(!) because I didn't have service in the bar I was in in Glen Arbor, MI.

It's always worth revisiting these types of events years later. But I thought this was kind of coming from a weird angle. I would love to have seen HBO Sports or someone do a documentary on the subject. I just don't really need Jermaine O'Neal telling me that the Pacers were the next great NBA dynasty, and he was heading for Top 50 GOAT status until this brawl happened. I also took issue with him acting like this is the REAL story - 'WE were vilified and it was really the fans that were the bad guys'. Umm, speaking as a local and Pistons fan at the time - no fucking shit, Jermaine. I don't know if I was embarrassed as a Pistons fan - it is somewhat cool - or at least I felt it was at the time - to have fans so diehard that they literally felt like they were part of the team, fighting a common enemy. Years later I realize how stupid and misplace that is, but at the time it felt kind of cool. That said, those idiots - John Green (cup thrower), Charlie Haddad (drunk jackass who confronted Artest and JO on the floor and tried to throw hands), David Wallace (Big Ben's brother - jumped on Artest/Jackson and started throwing haymakers) and the chair thrower were all absolutely culpable for that thing. None of it happens if Green doesn't throw that cup. Fucking fool. Artest fouled Ben Wallace too hard. On purpose. Then he went and laid on the scorer's table like a fool. Newsflash, Ron Artest was out of his fucking mind at that time. Probably don't throw a full beer at him.  I don't blame him one bit for going into the stands given his mental faculties at the time. I don't blame Stephen Jackson one bit for having his teammates' back. I don't blame Jermaine O'Neal for defending himself. Stupid narrative from JO - 'we were the real victims and would have beaten down the Pistons, Shaq/Flash, and the Spurs if not for the suspensions'. Lame. I don't know how you all felt at the time or in the events after, but I was pretty intimately familiar with the specifics of the whole ordeal, and it was never a pointing fingers at the Pacers thing. Maybe immediately that night, but once the replays all got sorted out it was pretty obvious what transpired and who shouldered the lions share of the blame. Artest crossed many line, sure, but especially today when we have a little bit more insight into mental health...the instigator in my mind was and always has been John Green. 

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BurntOrangeBlooded15

BurntOrangeBlooded15 1566

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41 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

I watched it last night with interested eyes. I was a pretty big Pistons fan in those days. I remember that game specifically - where I was, discussing with friends after, calling my friend who went to the game from a payphone(!) because I didn't have service in the bar I was in in Glen Arbor, MI.

It's always worth revisiting these types of events years later. But I thought this was kind of coming from a weird angle. I would love to have seen HBO Sports or someone do a documentary on the subject. I just don't really need Jermaine O'Neal telling me that the Pacers were the next great NBA dynasty, and he was heading for Top 50 GOAT status until this brawl happened. I also took issue with him acting like this is the REAL story - 'WE were vilified and it was really the fans that were the bad guys'. Umm, speaking as a local and Pistons fan at the time - no fucking shit, Jermaine. I don't know if I was embarrassed as a Pistons fan - it is somewhat cool - or at least I felt it was at the time - to have fans so diehard that they literally felt like they were part of the team, fighting a common enemy. Years later I realize how stupid and misplace that is, but at the time it felt kind of cool. That said, those idiots - John Green (cup thrower), Charlie Haddad (drunk jackass who confronted Artest and JO on the floor and tried to throw hands), David Wallace (Big Ben's brother - jumped on Artest/Jackson and started throwing haymakers) and the chair thrower were all absolutely culpable for that thing. None of it happens if Green doesn't throw that cup. Fucking fool. Artest fouled Ben Wallace too hard. On purpose. Then he went and laid on the scorer's table like a fool. Newsflash, Ron Artest was out of his fucking mind at that time. Probably don't throw a full beer at him.  I don't blame him one bit for going into the stands given his mental faculties at the time. I don't blame Stephen Jackson one bit for having his teammates' back. I don't blame Jermaine O'Neal for defending himself. Stupid narrative from JO - 'we were the real victims and would have beaten down the Pistons, Shaq/Flash, and the Spurs if not for the suspensions'. Lame. I don't know how you all felt at the time or in the events after, but I was pretty intimately familiar with the specifics of the whole ordeal, and it was never a pointing fingers at the Pacers thing. Maybe immediately that night, but once the replays all got sorted out it was pretty obvious what transpired and who shouldered the lions share of the blame. Artest crossed many line, sure, but especially today when we have a little bit more insight into mental health...the instigator in my mind was and always has been John Green. 

The biggest thing about Green that I took from it was that he was a fucking idiot.  That interview he did was the dumbest shit I ever heard coming from someone who fucked something up.  
 

Also I agree it would’ve been better from a more neutral view.  O’Neal was an executive producer on it thus the Indiana slant. 

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Reynolds Woodcock

Reynolds Woodcock 4738

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3 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

Only watched the trailer, but I think they could have chosen a better example than Malice in the Palace to make a stand against people unfairly labeling certain pro athletes as thugs. They’re showing clips of Ron Artest going into the stands and beating up fans (the wrong guy, at that, if I remember right) while Jermaine O’Neal tries to compare that to hockey players fighting EACH OTHER.

Um, ok.  Tune in next week for a roundtable discussion of why athletes are unfairly maligned in the press, with our panelists Rae Carruth, Oscar Pistorius, and OJ.

 

What a dumb fucking comparison. 
 

1 hour ago, Kermit said:

Fans getting their asses kicked had been a long time coming at that point. I think we’re due for another reminder of what a professional athlete can do to some drunk asshole who habitually steps over the line. 

Correct.

Mediocre tubby white dudes buy tickets to sporting events and think it makes them impervious to ordinary course repercussions for acting like shitty human beings. It’s unfortunate that it escalated, but the clips of Bob Costas and the like labeling these guys thugs for reacting like normal humans in a hostile environment with beer being thrown at them is total bull shit.

And Kyle Lowery should have been allowed to remind Mark Stevens exactly where he stands on the evolutionary food chain a few years ago.

 

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Helobious

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I actually watched it tonight, thought it was good. I always felt kind of bad for Ron Artest that night. He knew he had mental issues and (albeit in a weird way) was trying to do the right thing and cool off. Then some jackass fucks with him at the wrong time & artest is forever a villain. 

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Baboontyme

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2 hours ago, BurntOrangeBlooded15 said:

The biggest thing about Green that I took from it was that he was a fucking idiot.  That interview he did was the dumbest shit I ever heard coming from someone who fucked something up.  
 

Also I agree it would’ve been better from a more neutral view.  O’Neal was an executive producer on it thus the Indiana slant. 

Yeah, he was a fucking idiot. IIRC he had some demons similar to Artest. He was just a fucking scrub without all world athletic ability so the world kind of forgot about him. Last I heard (a few years ago), he and Artest had made amends and were actually friends. Pretty cool if you ask me. The redemption of Artest and Green seems like a better story than whatever JO was trying to tell. 

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CurlyDumps

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15 hours ago, BurntOrangeBlooded15 said:

Also I agree it would’ve been better from a more neutral view.  O’Neal was an executive producer on it thus the Indiana slant. 

I'm not a fan of this recent trend of athletes/celebrities and their buddies producing "documentaries" about themselves.  I still wanna check this out but that shit really puts a damper on my interest.

 

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22 hours ago, Not a cat said:

Artest's speech pattern sounds exactly like Rodman to me.  Wonder if they had the same thing.

 

Struck me the same way.

My biggest ragret in the whole deal was that Artest didn't get the right dude when he ran into the stands.

Dude who threw the cup is monumental douchebag.

Dude who got decked on the court deserved even more of a beating.

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Bottlecap

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On 8/11/2021 at 8:01 PM, Baboontyme said:

I watched it last night with interested eyes. I was a pretty big Pistons fan in those days. I remember that game specifically - where I was, discussing with friends after, calling my friend who went to the game from a payphone(!) because I didn't have service in the bar I was in in Glen Arbor, MI.

 

Its been over 15 years since that incident and Glen Arbor still doesn't have any fuckin cell phone service. I love that place but annoys the shit out of me that I can't use my phone waiting in giant lines for a beer at Cherry Republic. 

 

Anyway, yeah. More fans should have their asses handed to em. Starting with the youth leagues.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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21 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

I'm not a fan of this recent trend of athletes/celebrities and their buddies producing "documentaries" about themselves.  I still wanna check this out but that shit really puts a damper on my interest.

 

I think you get far more authentic opinions and reactions.   I would have that the canned/measured responses of other docs.   I think we need to see more of players as people with real issues and their real emotions.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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Ok, just finished. I thought it was very well done.   I think the "slant" talk is an overreaction.  Of course guys are going to give their side of the story but I dont even think that was over the top.   They had Michigan State Troopers who were there that night giving their version of what happened and even the Oakland County AG who was in charge of charging the fans involved.

JO never said he would be a top 50 player if not for that night.    He said he is still asked about it and know more for it than his playing career and he has a problem with living with that.

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Rockethorn1978

Rockethorn1978 6072

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The midget middle eastern dude is still a HUGE bitch. I wish JO knocked his ass out. The dude that threw the beer was a huge bitch too. Incredible looking back at how much the media went all in on the pacers and said nothing about the shitty Detroit fans that came on the court. 
 

other thing that stood out was how big of a prick David stern was about this. “It was a vote of 1-0”. Yea dictator stern. What a dumb ass. Rip doe.

 

 

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Ignatius

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On 8/11/2021 at 5:40 PM, longhornmatt said:

Only watched the trailer, but I think they could have chosen a better example than Malice in the Palace to make a stand against people unfairly labeling certain pro athletes as thugs. They’re showing clips of Ron Artest going into the stands and beating up fans (the wrong guy, at that, if I remember right) while Jermaine O’Neal tries to compare that to hockey players fighting EACH OTHER.

Um, ok.  Tune in next week for a roundtable discussion of why athletes are unfairly maligned in the press, with our panelists Rae Carruth, Oscar Pistorius, and OJ.

Lulz I get your point but tap the brakes; nobody got murdered, a few drunks got rightly or wrongly punched when some shit went sideways….

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Paul Wesley

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The player who was the most out-of-control on the court was (by far) Ben Wallace.  Yeah, he took a hard foul... but I'm not sure that foul merited his complete lose-your-shit meltdown.  He was out of control for way too long, ending with him throwing things at Artest -- definitely making the Detroit fans feel empowered to *also* throw all kinds of shit at the Pacers (which they did). 

 

 

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d2o

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6 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

The player who was the most out-of-control on the court was (by far) Ben Wallace.  Yeah, he took a hard foul... but I'm not sure that foul merited his complete lose-your-shit meltdown.  He was out of control for way too long, ending with him throwing things at Artest -- definitely making the Detroit fans feel empowered to *also* throw all kinds of shit at the Pacers (which they did). 

 

 

Agree completely.  The foul wasn't even really that hard.   They did mention that Ben had just lost his brother at the time so he was more emotional than normal.  That said, I think the coaches have gotten a complete pass in this.    IND was up 15 with less than a minute left.    None of those guys should have even been on the floor.

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On 8/13/2021 at 11:51 AM, d2o said:

Ok, just finished. I thought it was very well done.   I think the "slant" talk is an overreaction.  Of course guys are going to give their side of the story but I dont even think that was over the top.   They had Michigan State Troopers who were there that night giving their version of what happened and even the Oakland County AG who was in charge of charging the fans involved.

JO never said he would be a top 50 player if not for that night.    He said he is still asked about it and know more for it than his playing career and he has a problem with living with that.

Was listening to Jim Rome last Friday and he nailed this perfectly.  Something to the effect of "yeah, I too had an incident about 25 years ago when I was young and guess what people always want to talk about. I've owned it, addressed it, and just got sick of talking about it, but every interview and conversation seems to go there.  I totally understand why JO doesn't want to talk about it any more."

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4017

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On 8/19/2021 at 4:01 PM, Dr. Beeper said:

More Longhorn Matt, less you. Ron Artest may not be a thug, but he and Jackson had zero control of their emotions. Artest was and is a mental head case. There is no excusing his actions. I don’t care if that beer hits him in the balls or face. 

He and Jackson should have been thrown in jail and kicked out of the league for good. 

O’Neal got totally fucked and I always felt very bad for him. 

There was nothing new in that doc - nothing. I had forgotten just how good Indy was. 

So if you’re at some restaurant with your wife and some drunk walks by your table and says “Nice tits baby!!!” are you going to be the ‘bigger man’ and let that douche keep walking?

Yeah, you are..

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d2o

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On 8/20/2021 at 7:29 PM, Dr. Beeper said:

First, she does have nice tits. Second, I’m not gonna react violently, and I don’t make tens of millions per year. Third, if I did react violently and made tens of millions per year, I wouldn’t be in a protected arena, so the comparison is absurd.  

There is no defense of Artest’s actions. He’s a very troubled dude and should’ve been banned from the league forever. 

IND bears responsibility in that.   Artest is crazy but he had enough sense to know he needed time away because he wasn't right.     IND insisted that he played.

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