The Blackjack Table

[Bone3421 716]

Didnt have much luck at winstar....

Was staying about even with just a little 100$ buy in....dealer went on a little 21/20 streak so was down to 50

Put 30 down and got dealt 18 with dealer showing a 6. The jackass in front of me hit on 16 and drew a 10. Rest of tabled stayed and dealer flipped a 8 and proceeded to draw a 7

I let the jackass know what he did then he grabbed chips and left...lost 20 on next hand to finish it off

But pretty much just wanted to say if you dont know how to play dont sit down 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Bone3421

[Bone3421 716]

Blackjack is a team sport in a sense and you cant be hitting on 16/15 when dealer is showing less than 17

[Teddyballgame 441]

In the long run it makes absolutely no difference what the others at the table do.

[DanRydell 799]

In the long run it makes absolutely no difference what the others at the table do.

This. People who give a shot how others at the table are playing are fucking idiots. Bad players only affect their own odds.

[DanRydell 799]

dbl post

[Bone3421 716]

Yall are both wrong...what somebody does in front of other players effects the whole table

As example stated if jackass knew how to play he wouldnt hit on 16 with dealer showing 6...his moronic choice cost everyone at the table 

Hopefully i dont play with yall either

[DanRydell 799]

Yall are both wrong...what somebody does in front of other players effects the whole table
As example stated if jackass knew how to play he wouldnt hit on 16 with dealer showing 6...his moronic choice cost everyone at the table 
Hopefully i dont play with yall either

Of course it affects the table, but it’s equally likely to positively affect the table as it is to negative affect it.

By taking an extra card, he was just as likely to take the 7 and leave the dealer with the ten, in which case he would helped you.

[DanRydell 799]

Yall are both wrong...what somebody does in front of other players effects the whole table As example stated if jackass knew how to play he wouldnt hit on 16 with dealer showing 6...his moronic choice cost everyone at the table 

Hopefully i dont play with yall either

 

 

Of course it affects the table, but it’s equally likely to positively affect the table as it is to negatively affect it.

 

By taking an extra card, he was just as likely to take the 7 and leave the dealer with the ten, in which case he would have won you the hand.

 

[Bone3421 716]

Or he could have just stayed like everyone else and like your suppose to with dealer showing weak....he had 16 even if he drew 7 he lost

Yes there are times to hit with 16/15 but thats when dealer has 8+ showing

[DanRydell 799]

Or he could have just stayed like everyone else and like your suppose to with dealer showing weak....he had 16 even if he drew 7 he lost
Yes there are times to hit with 16/15 but thats when dealer has 8+ showing

He could have. And doing so certainly would have positively affected his odds. But it would not have affected your odds.

[DanRydell 799]

nm

[Teddyballgame 441]

Yeah and the world is flat. Are you really that stupid? Long term it has no impact except for the idiot not playing by the book. Have more money so one hand doesn’t send you off the deep end

[Guest]

Gambling is generally a short term proposition, however.

Edited May 10, 2018 by slorch

[VolenteHawk 495]

I like ballers that buy in for $100 and bully people at the table that have no effect on their odds.

Just the best.

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by VolenteHawk

[Incredulity 11885]

well there is questionable play and there is stupid play.

 

I can go along and get along with questionable play.  Splitting 10's, hitting anything over 11 against 4, 5 and 6(obviously soft excluded) are leave table time.

[chitwood 155]

Math (and specifically probability) is apparently hard for the OP.

Edited May 10, 2018 by chitwood

[TXSooner518 2455]

15 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

Yall are both wrong...what somebody does in front of other players effects the whole table

As example stated if jackass knew how to play he wouldnt hit on 16 with dealer showing 6...his moronic choice cost everyone at the table 

Hopefully i dont play with yall either

Nope, you are wrong.  Put it this way:  You have a $1000 bet on the table.  You and I both have 14 and the dealer has a 6 up.  Answer these two questions:

1) How much does me hitting decrease the chance that the dealer busts?

2) How much would you pay me to not hit, since you think me hitting decreases your win chances?

2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

well there is questionable play and there is stupid play.

 

I can go along and get along with questionable play.  Splitting 10's, hitting anything over 11 against 4, 5 and 6(obviously soft excluded) are leave table time.

Why leave the table?  It literally doesn't affect your expected value by a penny.

50 minutes ago, chitwood said:

Math (and specifically probability) is apparently hard for the OP.

Hard for lots of people.

[Sbbruin 22147]

I just focus on me.  And the math.

[Deguello 54]

3 hours ago, Incredulity said:

well there is questionable play and there is stupid play.

 

I can go along and get along with questionable play.  Splitting 10's, hitting anything over 11 against 4, 5 and 6(obviously soft excluded) are leave table time.

The math can say to split 10s vs. a 4-6 with a high enough true count. Now, I almost never do it unless I'm about to leave anyway since there's more to it than math. May be "stupid" from a heat standpoint, but not from a gaming standpoint.

Also, some deviations say to hit a 12 against a 4 with a negative running count, so there's that.

Really, though, other players are only affecting their own expected value in the long run. They could take your bust card just as easily as the dealers, or whatever.

[shakahorn 1660]

4 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

I like ballers that buy in for $100 and bully people at the table that have no effect on their odds.

Just the best.

 

As the table minimums go up, you are less likely to see stupid play.  But I agree, others play does not affect your hand.

3 hours ago, Incredulity said:

well there is questionable play and there is stupid play.

 

I can go along and get along with questionable play.  Splitting 10's, hitting anything over 11 against 4, 5 and 6(obviously soft excluded) are leave table time.

I think I learned that on one of these boards, but if you're at a full table and a buddy wants to get in, split 10's.  Someone will leave.

Edited May 10, 2018 by shakahorn

[Incredulity 11885]

55 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Nope, you are wrong.  Put it this way:  You have a $1000 bet on the table.  You and I both have 14 and the dealer has a 6 up.  Answer these two questions:

1) How much does me hitting decrease the chance that the dealer busts?

2) How much would you pay me to not hit, since you think me hitting decreases your win chances?

Why leave the table?  It literally doesn't affect your expected value by a penny.

Hard for lots of people.

 Hitting above 11 against a 4,5 or 6 is extremely stupid.  

I question that persons stability and I don't want to be there when they crack up.

 

[Incredulity 11885]

Just now, shakahorn said:

As the table minimums go up, you are less likely to see stupid play.  But I agree, others play does not affect your hand.

I think I learned that on one of these boards, but if you're at a crowded table and a buddy wants to get in, split 10's.  Someone will leave.

4-D chess

[crony 377]

Fucking winstar blackjack. Bet $100 just me at the table. Get dealt aces with dealer showing 6. I split and get kings on both. Dealer flips card; its an 8, then a fucking 7. So I paid them to lose 2 blackjacks. Ugh fuck that game.

[Guest]

yeah, if they still charge that ante, everyone at the fucking table was a loser from the get-go.  Among other things in Oklahoma, the casinos suck especially more than others.

[Bone3421 716]

I didnt bully him just pointed out that he cost the whole table with an extremely stupid play....and the second reason i made the thread seems to be working since we didnt have a blackjack discussion going before hand

[Bone3421 716]

Anybody that wants to argue hitting on 16 with dealer showing a 6 i dont want on table im at lol

[Bone3421 716]

Lol bunch of cry babies in here thinking im upset or something ....shared a story and started thread but sure i went off the deep end and was upset and cussed all the way home over my poor 100$ 

Now i have to eat ramen and cancel my summer plans

[Angry Gorilla 1771]

Classic confirmation bias.  People who think other players' play effects their odds only remember when the player takes the dealer's bust card, and not when they take a card that would have given the dealer a hand and left the dealer with a bust card.

[High Plains Drifter 11195]

59 minutes ago, slorch said:

yeah, if they still charge that ante, everyone at the fucking table was a loser from the get-go.  Among other things in Oklahoma, the casinos suck especially more than others.

That "ante", which is actually a tax that goes to the state government, was the result of lobbying by the tribes. State was going to tax the casinos' profits. Casinos "convinced" the state to directly tax the player instead.

Its total bullshit. I refuse to play at the OK casinos.

[chitwood 155]

Bone, no one is arguing that it is a bad play for that player.  However, his taking a card could just have easily helped the rest of the table as hurt them.  That is what we are saying.

[scottonian 36]

Really don't care that Bone is bent out of shape over his lack of understanding basic statistics.

 

But why the fuck does he put the $ sign after the number when he is referring to currency amounts?

[VolenteHawk 495]

6 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

I didnt bully him just pointed out that he cost the whole table with an extremely stupid play....and the second reason i made the thread seems to be working since we didnt have a blackjack discussion going before hand

Except he really didn’t. Once you understand that, you’ll understand why you’re getting laughed at.

It was a stupid play, but it had literally no mathematical effect on the table unless you know the cards in advance. And if you know that, I’ll stake you for your next baller hundred and we can go in halvsies on our own Caribbean island.

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by VolenteHawk

[Bone3421 716]

42 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

Except he really didn’t. Once you understand that, you’ll understand why you’re getting laughed at.

It was a stupid play, but it had literally no mathematical effect on the table unless you know the cards in advance. And if you know that, I’ll stake you for your next baller hundred and we can go in halvsies on our own Caribbean island.

 

But it does change the math....sure in theory if the casinos used an infinite deck then the math will be fine but in the real word every card leaves the shoe

And i have never once suggested in any response that i was talking about the future hands...i shared a story about one stupid play

But yes the change is minimal but it is there with every card played out of the shoe. Even the ones blessed to be able to count cards only increase chances by 1/2% but the math does change with every card....

[Bone3421 716]

But now that we got a thread....if his play doesnt effect the odds then why does the house never concede the advantage of going last and rotating position like in poker

The main advantage for the dealer is he goes last so the argument about others not effecting outcome will fall on deaf ears...the bust rate is what 28/30% range so dealer just sits back and collects money while people feel lucky hitting on 14-16

[Bone3421 716]

5 hours ago, scottonian said:

Really don't care that Bone is bent out of shape over his lack of understanding basic statistics.

 

But why the fuck does he put the $ sign after the number when he is referring to currency amounts?

Not bent out of shape...having fun

Seems yesterday we didnt have a blackjack thread and today we do and i havent really heard one compelling argument besides "but he didnt dummy" 

$$$ 

[Blotto 24046]

1 hour ago, Bone3421 said:

But now that we got a thread....if his play doesnt effect the odds then why does the house never concede the advantage of going last and rotating position like in poker

The main advantage for the dealer is he goes last so the argument about others not effecting outcome will fall on deaf ears...the bust rate is what 28/30% range so dealer just sits back and collects money while people feel lucky hitting on 14-16

And I thought Bone's input on poor play by others would be the dumbest thought expressed in this thread.

[Deguello 54]

2 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

But now that we got a thread....if his play doesnt effect the odds then why does the house never concede the advantage of going last and rotating position like in poker

The main advantage for the dealer is he goes last so the argument about others not effecting outcome will fall on deaf ears...the bust rate is what 28/30% range so dealer just sits back and collects money while people feel lucky hitting on 14-16

If the dealer didn’t go last, everyone after the dealer would draw to try to beat him, even on a 19 vs. a 20. There’d be no actual game. And the dealer draws according to the rules of the table, regardless of what other players have done. 

On a hard 14-16 with basic strategy, you’re hitting if the dealer is showing a 7+. Even with counting and deviations, you’re mostly hitting in those situations. Sure, any particular hit will be luck, but over time the mathematically valid approach will give the best chance for success.

The main advantages for the dealer are that his plays are given and that unless the house has done something really stupid, it probably has at least a .5% advantage over even a flawless basic strategy player. And that very few people can even play basic strategy flawlessly. 

If you’re going to beat the dealer, you’re going to have to count, vary your bets, and do so without getting backed off. Whether some ploppy plays poorly or not won’t affect that in the long run and, either way, is about as likely to help you as hurt, you just notice the hurt more often. 

[DanRydell 799]

But now that we got a thread....if his play doesnt effect the odds then why does the house never concede the advantage of going last and rotating position like in poker
The main advantage for the dealer is he goes last so the argument about others not effecting outcome will fall on deaf ears...the bust rate is what 28/30% range so dealer just sits back and collects money while people feel lucky hitting on 14-16

It’s not just that you’re bad at math and probability, it’s that your smug about it.

[shakahorn 1660]

34 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

 

It’s not just that you’re bad at math and probability, it’s that your smug about it.

 

*you're*

[52-80 19381]

thread brought the lulz

[Bone3421 716]

Lol at the literal people....i am far from smug i just like being unyielding sometimes

Its good ole fun...i can get all the same info from google but this is entertaining

But getting boring since nobody wants to talk about anything...like why do i read that odds go down .05% per seat the closer you move to first base

 

[Deguello 54]

3 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

Lol at the literal people....i am far from smug i just like being unyielding sometimes

Its good ole fun...i can get all the same info from google but this is entertaining

But getting boring since nobody wants to talk about anything...like why do i read that odds go down .05% per seat the closer you move to first base

 

 If I get what you’re asking, it’s because you’re seeing slightly fewer cards the closer you are to first base, so your deviations are going to be slightly less well-informed. 

Honestly, I think you’re playing with a positive EV, worrying about which seat you have is probably costing you money compared to the minuscule difference your preferred seat would make. 

[sheeeit 129]

59 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

Lol at the literal people....i am far from smug i just like being unyielding sometimes

Its good ole fun...i can get all the same info from google but this is entertaining

But getting boring since nobody wants to talk about anything...like why do i read that odds go down .05% per seat the closer you move to first base

 

To keep the BJ thought going you are doubling down on stupid.  Hitting on a 16 when the dealer shows a 6 is a dumb play and people doing that will likely lose money in the long term.  A person doing that next to you does not change your odds.

The odds getting better the farther away from the first seat is only true if you are counting.  If not, no change.

[Anastasis 23720]

But now that we got a thread....if his play doesnt effect the odds then why does the house never concede the advantage of going last and rotating position like in poker
The main advantage for the dealer is he goes last so the argument about others not effecting outcome will fall on deaf ears...the bust rate is what 28/30% range so dealer just sits back and collects money while people feel lucky hitting on 14-16

Wow.

[TornACL 7805]

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 8:51 PM, Bone3421 said:

Blackjack is a team sport in a sense and you cant be hitting on 16/15 when dealer is showing less than 17

Nobody likes to play with the guy who thinks like this.

[Huckleberry 34755]

I don't know, I think it would be pretty fun to sit in front of him and start making the worst possible plays.

[Bone3421 716]

now were having fun....and why not acl

In theory everyone would just be simulations. Dont we want everyone to play smart

And it is a teamsport in a sense...every card is connected and every card played changes the odds due to the set number of cards in deck, right?

 

 

[Bone3421 716]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

I don't know, I think it would be pretty fun to sit in front of him and start making the worst possible plays.

You would probably win

[TXSooner518 2455]

now were having fun....and why not acl
In theory everyone would just be simulations. Dont we want everyone to play smart
And it is a teamsport in a sense...every card is connected and every card played changes the odds due to the set number of cards in deck, right?
 
 

Not without knowing what it is. Say you and I are playing a game. You pull a card from a facedown deck. If it is a heart or diamond I pay you $100, otherwise you pay me $100. An exactly breakeven game.

Now Huck comes up and takes a card out of the deck. We don't see what it is. He has changed the odds, but it is meaningless because he is exactly as likely to help you as hurt you. So by taking a card he is slightly changing the odds, but isn't changing our expectation by taking a card.

[Teddyballgame 441]

Op has to be trolling at this point,  it’s like trying to convince a flat earther...the reason there was no active bj thread because it is a solved game, really not much too to talk about unless you want to get into counting and different ways to do it, that could be  a valid discussion but otherwise what’s there really to discuss?   Op came out all hot and bothered telling us how he chased someone off a table expecting to be some kind of badass.  When that backfired, he decided he was just trying to start some good natured dialogue..