The Urbanization of America Continues Unabated

[Beau Vine 54429]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

because of fires?

Heard this past week that Denver metro temporarily had worst air quality in the WORLD(!)  but it is from the wildfire smoke blowing in.

No, on a 365-day-of-the-year measure.  

I was in Denver for two weeks a couple of weeks ago, and the air was nasty, but it wasn't China.

[DalTxHornFan 3117]

5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

That made some sense when the constitution was ratified and the federal government was meant to do very little while the states largely governed themselves. The New Deal changed that and the federal government now has much more power than what was originally intended. Agree or disagree with that as you will, but the fact is that the senate is not representative of the U.S. population, and that's a huge problem. You know damn well that if democrats represented 35% of the population and passed stuff the right hated, we'd already have a civil war. It's going to happen soon, one more trump-like sycophant winning the presidency with a huge loss in the popular vote, that's not how voting works. The U.S. Supreme Court has specifically held that "one person one vote" is the law of the land, the only exception being the U.S. Senate and Electoral College, because it is part of the Constitution. The Constitution was made to change with the times and it should in this situation.

[Foosters 17888]

A DT thread singing the praises of Florida's politics is so on-brand.

['stache 21866]

7 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

[used2b 249]

I see the map in the link but it only has state, county and tract data. How can I find the data about cities and municipalities? Anyone have that? Or am I missing it somewhere in this link?

 

https://mtgis-portal.geo.census.gov/arcgis/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=2566121a73de463995ed2b2fd7ff6eb7

Edited August 13, 2021 by used2b

[Guest Lobo]

57 minutes ago, Foosters said:

A DT thread singing the praises of Florida's politics is so on-brand.

Watching Texas “Men” try to mold Florida politics into their ethos because we’re having a hard time finding peer states as stupid as we are  is just sad at this point.  When your other friend at the bottom of the pit is fucking Florida, you need a different group of friends.  

[bolverk 29717]

1 hour ago, used2b said:

I see the map in the link but it only has state, county and tract data. How can I find the data about cities and municipalities? Anyone have that? Or am I missing it somewhere in this link?

 

https://mtgis-portal.geo.census.gov/arcgis/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=2566121a73de463995ed2b2fd7ff6eb7

Census Quick Facts allows you to look up certain data on cities and counties with a population above 5,000. Most of the data, however, are from previous estimates, but they do show the 2020 population count in there. Notice that it's not the top line where you'd think it would be. It's going to take them a while to release, format, and load everything.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219

They also have a kind of clunky Tableau here where you can get stuff for counties and MSAs. Be sure to note that you can click on the subject matter you want to see. Those are the squares on the second line to the right of where it says United States.

https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/2020-population-and-housing-state-data.html

 

[Guest Lobo]

75 years later, you can still see Robert Moses' fingerprints of so much in that tri-state area.  Fucking amazing.  

[SurlyGator 876]

Surly slipping’.  I expected a smarmy reply about expecting this to be about Urban Meyer and the Jag-offs on post #2.

[used2b 249]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Census Quick Facts allows you to look up certain data on cities and counties with a population above 5,000. Most of the data, however, are from previous estimates, but they do show the 2020 population count in there. Notice that it's not the top line where you'd think it would be. It's going to take them a while to release, format, and load everything.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219

They also have a kind of clunky Tableau here where you can get stuff for counties and MSAs. Be sure to note that you can click on the subject matter you want to see. Those are the squares on the second line to the right of where it says United States.

https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/2020-population-and-housing-state-data.html

 

Thank you!

Interesting how off some of the estimates were. I wonder how much this will affect city planning and budgets.

[JimmyJames 12271]

I’ve travelled all over this fine country and Florida is easily the second worst state in the nation after the undisputed leader, Missouri.

Florida has a few redeeming qualities but for the most part it’s a shithole. If you retire there you’re an asshole. Move to Cali or the hill country or Montana or Nevada or whatever. Unless you’re an idiot, an asshole, or a poor, which means in Florida you fit right in.

[Guest Lobo]

Missouri sucks but I wouldn't rate it as the worst state in the nation.  Show me on the map where Missouri touched you.  

[swraith 347]

7 hours ago, slorch said:

because of fires?

Heard this past week that Denver metro temporarily had worst air quality in the WORLD(!)  but it is from the wildfire smoke blowing in.  It was on the radio, and could be total BS.   It did raise an eyebrow, for sure.

I'm in Denver right now.  Air quality last week was horrible.  Couldn't see the downtown skyline.  Couldn't see the front range mountains.  The air smelled and tasted of smoke.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Missouri sucks but I wouldn't rate it as the worst state in the nation.  Show me on the map where Missouri touched you.  

Because it combines the worst qualities of the east coast mixed in with the worst qualities of the south.  Just look at who is currently running for senate. Basically the worst people imaginable.
 

Like all places there are good people there. But it’s just a subjective opinion anyway and yes, I cannot prove it.

[Guest Lobo]

Oh, I'm not a fan.  I just would never think of as dead last.  

But the census shows us that people aren't just moving for weather, taxes, and business opportunities.  They are moving to be around other shitty people like themselves.

[tomahawk dunk 339]

On 8/12/2021 at 4:05 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Why the fuck would anyone move to Florida?

yankees

[Hate 20145]

Well Missouri does have that shithole that is St. Louis.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4977]

14 hours ago, 'stache said:

That made some sense when the constitution was ratified and the federal government was meant to do very little while the states largely governed themselves. The New Deal changed that and the federal government now has much more power than what was originally intended. Agree or disagree with that as you will, but the fact is that the senate is not representative of the U.S. population, and that's a huge problem. You know damn well that if democrats represented 35% of the population and passed stuff the right hated, we'd already have a civil war. It's going to happen soon, one more trump-like sycophant winning the presidency with a huge loss in the popular vote, that's not how voting works. The U.S. Supreme Court has specifically held that "one person one vote" is the law of the land, the only exception being the U.S. Senate and Electoral College, because it is part of the Constitution. The Constitution was made to change with the times and it should in this situation.

The problem is that if our government was entirely representative of our population we would dig our own grave at the first chance afforded to us in these times. Now, before I expound any further, remember we are a nation of morons who elect morons to run our country moronically. Urban centers have no clue about how to properly run things outside of their bubble (actually they're morons, so they have Fitlump et al.) Rural folks have no clue what should work in urban centers (morgans, the lot of them). They have their own fitlumps. If one side gets too much power we are all screwed. We need a system that balances that, which is why we have what we have. Maybe our current system is just going through a random non balancing event, or maybe this is a permanent trend. But instead of crying about how the rural folks are screwing things up so much that the city folks don't get the chance to do the inevitable and screw things up, maybe we should be asking how can we better balance the interests of both sides so that we aren't so polarized and can actually get proper things done.

[Guest]

Morgans you say?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

13 hours ago, Lobo said:

Missouri sucks but I wouldn't rate it as the worst state in the nation.  Show me on the map where Missouri touched you.  

Ohio says fuck you I suck a lot more.

[deadshank 24653]

5 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

The problem is that if our government was entirely representative of our population we would dig our own grave at the first chance afforded to us in these times. Now, before I expound any further, remember we are a nation of morons who elect morons to run our country moronically. Urban centers have no clue about how to properly run things outside of their bubble (actually they're morons, so they have Fitlump et al.) Rural folks have no clue what should work in urban centers (morgans, the lot of them). They have their own fitlumps. If one side gets too much power we are all screwed. We need a system that balances that, which is why we have what we have. Maybe our current system is just going through a random non balancing event, or maybe this is a permanent trend. But instead of crying about how the rural folks are screwing things up so much that the city folks don't get the chance to do the inevitable and screw things up, maybe we should be asking how can we better balance the interests of both sides so that we aren't so polarized and can actually get proper things done.

Easy.  Make me king and do what I say. 

[gmr548 16616]

22 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I looked into Farmington as a retirement spot, and it's apparently a huge shithole.  Some of the worst air quality in the country, which really seems like it should be impossible in NM...

Two coal power plants, coal mining, and O&G activity

[Nivek 16986]

I looked into Farmington as a retirement spot, and it's apparently a huge shithole.  Some of the worst air quality in the country, which really seems like it should be impossible in NM...

Cuba NM is the worst. But there is no reason to stop there, and the car rental agents advised me not to.

Bloomington NM is worse than Farmington, but I had an Algerian employee who would proclaim Farmington was a Shit-hole with a slight pause making it sound hysterical to me.

Positive side, there is a nice park to the south of Farmington, Durango is close, and there are those Pueblos UNESCO site nearby.

Fry bread is gross.

[nineliveslost 2796]

I wonder if working remotely will decrease the move to the city or even reverse it if it gains traction and becomes the norm. Covid has changed the perception of where one lives and works 

[Beau Vine 54429]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Bloomington NM is worse than Farmington, but I had an Algerian employee who would proclaim Farmington was a Shit-hole with a slight pause making it sound hysterical to me.

Bloomfield, and it is:

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

1 hour ago, nineliveslost said:

I wonder if working remotely will decrease the move to the city or even reverse it if it gains traction and becomes the norm. Covid has changed the perception of where one lives and works 

I could see some couples with established careers and younger kids could move to a small town chasing some idealized lifestyle that most likely doesn't exist. I say this from someone that was pulled into small town living by my parents while I was in junior high. I couldn't wait to get the hell out of there. Nice people but boring. And I lived in a vacation town. I couldn't imagine what it must be like in a small town that only consists of residents. 

[nineliveslost 2796]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I could see some couples with established careers and younger kids could move to a small town chasing some idealized lifestyle that most likely doesn't exist. I say this from someone that was pulled into small town living by my parents while I was in junior high. I couldn't wait to get the hell out of there. Nice people but boring. And I lived in a vacation town. I couldn't imagine what it must be like in a small town that only consists of residents. 

I hear you, but different folks, different strokes.  I love the small town with room to breathe.  Big yard and low crime. Chill life

[CHIEF 5095]

6 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

I hear you, but different folks, different strokes.  I love the small town with room to breathe.  Big yard and low crime. Chill life

Same here, even Granbury is too big. Give me Guthrie, Benjamin, or Aspermont. I'm creative enough to make my own entertainment.

CHIEF

[RPM 26354]

I live in Wise County. Basically the only county around DFW that hasn't exploded, yet. The last 2 years it started. There's a 10,000 home development being built near Rhome. Less than 5 miles away from me another smaller development is being built selling at incredible prices.

That's only overpriced by $100,000, but they will sell out. May be time for me to gtfo.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

JFC…

[Nivek 16986]

Bloomfield, and it is:

That’s right, fuck that place and their 35 mph speed limit.

[David Dennison 18946]

On 8/12/2021 at 9:31 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Houston is fairly representative of not just American but world cities in that the close-in suburbs are already shit for the most part. The old town is gentrifying, the 1950s-1980s ring is rotting, and the outer ring is booming. If affluent whites were to push farther out than they are, that would bring not just Sealy but also Columbus and Hempstead and Brenham more into something like Houston proper, and that is ridiculous.

Yes, people have been saying "I remember when this was all just farms" for generations now but absent flying cars, I don't think it will be the rich who end up farther and farther out in bumfuck. It will be the poor and the middles. The rich will more take over the central cities, where there is more to do, and force the poor farther and farther out. Those wealthy enough in the outer ring will try to make it to the inner ring. Covid and other diseases are not selectively ravaging Manhattan-type areas the way we thought so i don't think it will create the great sprawl that once seemed logical about a year ago.

 

Yeah, Briargrove Park is a shithole.

Lolz.

[Guest Lobo]

4 hours ago, nineliveslost said:

I wonder if working remotely will decrease the move to the city or even reverse it if it gains traction and becomes the norm. Covid has changed the perception of where one lives and works 

We started shopping around for houses/ranchettes way out in the Hill Country during the Pandemic.  Figured, who gives a shit about office space, fuck people, let's get back into nature like we used to, but this time for a homestead.  She can practice speech therapy anywhere there's kids.  I can figure out remote work and just get to an airport a few times a month.  All our civic engagement, teaching at UT, political shit, all of it---we can just drop it.  Raise the kids out in the Hill Country like we always dreamed.  We'd unlock equity in the house, get the fuck away from people, sock more money away for our latter years, etc.  Started getting ridiculously high offers for the house, coulda been sweet.  

But then the other shoe dropped.  We forgot that every place out in the Hill Country at which we were looking?.......their schools were fucking tragically bad.  Totally escaped me, "Oh yeah, we're supposed to give them a solid educational foundation for the rest of their lives.  Even if we bust ass to supplement, they're gonna be the Lobo kids that came from this backwards ass school system in Mason County or somesuch.  If enough of us move out there and boost up the property tax collection, sure...but that'd take afull generation.  Don't have that kinda time.  So we're stuck in the city...with you know?......other people. 

I really do think there's another niche real estate opportunity coming that many of us would jump to.  I don't need a ranch, most people don't.  Most people can't afford one.  I don't need 500 acres where I can mend wire and cut brush to "feel alive."  But ~20 acres with a bit of water and a modest home, 2 hours outside Austin.  And then a modest condo downtown or south Austin or somewhere I can be zoned into a decent school.  Not a penthouse, but a 2/2 close to the things and places we love.  Have to figure out declaring residency, homestead, property taxes, short-term rental of the condo all summer when school is out and we're back in the Hill Country to offset some expenses.  That's the dream.  Best of both worlds.  But fuck, it's still insanely expensive.  

Back to the census.  People aren't all urbanizing for culture and politics.  We have to do it sometimes for our children.  I don't like the politics of where I live in Austin, but I need my daughters to have this kind of top-flight education.  While I put my head in my hands at the stupid shit that surrounds us.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Yeah, Briargrove Park is a shithole.

Lolz.

Go outside the loop in literally every other direction except part of NW and parts of SW and report back.

You have Westbury and the GOOF making comebacks, but those are right next to sprawling ghettoes. 

Meyerland's future is threatened by floods. 

East of Westbury is that weird empty zone and then you are in Sunnyside and South Park. Keep going around the loop counter-clockwise and it doesn't get any better until you've made it all the way back to N. Shepherd.  

 

[Steel Shank 9432]

Good buddy of mine is from Festus, MO.

[CooterBrown 18029]

I don't need a ranch, most people don't.  Most people can't afford one.  I don't need 500 acres where I can mend wire and cut brush to "feel alive."  But ~20 acres with a bit of water and a modest home, 2 hours outside Austin. 

I don’t want to own land. I want access to lots of public land. A healthy mix of National Parks, National Forests, etc. Regardless if you want to hike, fish, shoot, off-road, whatever…just pick the place and be there within an hour. If I could get one more good stonk to hit, I’m getting a place in NM, CO, or MT. Probably a townhouse with a garage so I can leave it packed up with no maintenance to speak of.

[Guest Lobo]

Oh yeah, I'd love to have a screw everybody place way up in the mountains.  But I'm talking about the possibility that's actually not terribly unrealistic for folks that continue to flee urban cores and boring suburbs and exurbs that are commute nightmares.  Where you can literally have your place in the hill country and your place near downtown Austin.  Neither one particularly high-end or large, but functional.  2,000 square foot house 90 minutes from town.  Surrounded by nobody with fishing and hiking nearby.  And then a 1,200 square foot condo back in Austin close-in, not high-end, High B-class condo.  We talked about doing that after our youngest graduates high school, but I think we may do it sooner.  We couldn't afford anything lavish in either area, but we could swing---in a few years---two mid-grade places.  Neither terribly nice, but offering a little of both worlds.  

Anyway, back to census.  We're gonna see a shit-ton more office flight w/r/t people who live/work in shitty places.  People are gonna continue to pour into downtown Austin to work because of cool new product being delivered, amenities, food, after-work options, good energy, etc.  Yes, more of us will work more from home, but that ain't stopping all this class-A CBD product from being delivered and leased up.  But yeah, is the typical Cincinnati or Memphis or Oakland or Jacksonville downtown office worker going to keep going in 60 hours M-Sat?  Probably not.  They're gonna realize they don't have to put in the grind in those shitty city centers when they make the same money after moving a little farther out to somewhere more pleasant.  I think most large Texas cities, by virtue of their growth curve and their blended industry bases will continue to grow in the CBD and retain close-in populations with the urban donut still occurring alongside exurb growth---necessitated by cost of living.  But we're the outlier in the Lone Star State.  A lot of mid-sized cities in the Midwest, East, and even some in California and the Deep South are going to see people not wanting to live close-in to fucking Birmingham or Fresno or Indianapolis just because it's close to work.  I'm talking about regular cities, not the dead ones like Detroit or Baltimore.  But healthy mid-sized American cities that never really offered much except an exterior office and a parking spot.  People aren't gonna yearn for that anymore and live 15 minutes away in some shitty, sterile neighborhood.  I think those people will still keep those jobs, pop in 1-2x/week, but live farther out.  It's hard for us in Texas to imagine that, but if I'm 20 minutes from the office in Cincinnati while working from home during Covid-19...I'm sincerely wondering what the fucking point of sticking around there is going forward.  I'm looking to get out into the country and just tough it out whenever I need to get to a meeting.  Not like people are gonna miss those coveted Milwaukee public schools  

[cactusflinthead 27602]

5 hours ago, RPM said:

I live in Wise County. Basically the only county around DFW that hasn't exploded, yet. The last 2 years it started. There's a 10,000 home development being built near Rhome. Less than 5 miles away from me another smaller development is being built selling at incredible prices.

That's only overpriced by $100,000, but they will sell out. May be time for me to gtfo.

Wise County, Texas (48497)

 

Percent Change: 16.1

2020 Total Population: 68,632

2010 Total Population: 59,127

 

I really want to know 70, 80, 90, and 00

edit: Decatur was maybe 3000 when I graduated in 86.  Sanger is the same

Edited August 15, 2021 by cactusflinthead

[DalTxHornFan 3117]

2 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Wise County, Texas (48497)

 

Percent Change: 16.1

2020 Total Population: 68,632

2010 Total Population: 59,127

 

I really want to know 70, 80, 90, and 00

1970	19,687		15.7%
1980	26,575		35.0%
1990	34,679		30.5%
2000	48,793		40.7%

[cactusflinthead 27602]

1 minute ago, DalTxHornFan said:

1970	19,687		15.7%
1980	26,575		35.0%
1990	34,679		30.5%
2000	48,793		40.7%

So roughly 10k a decade

[cactusflinthead 27602]

Denton grew 30 something%. It is continuing unabated. I drive 35 south through the Lewisville, Carrollton/ Farmers Branch corridor every day. Demand for housing is insane. They aren't abandoning the area. 

How much is a 3/2 in Stinkadena? Prices going down? I doubt it.

If you are a broke ass mfer just getting started the suburbs don't look that bad. 

[Paco 1934]

Good buddy of mine is from Festus, MO.

There's no Riviera in Festus, Missoura.

[Guest Lobo]

I'm guessing Dec. 23rd in Festus is LIT AS FUCK.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19142]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:55 PM, workswithseed said:

New York politics suck.

[RPM 26354]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:32 PM, cactusflinthead said:

So roughly 10k a decade

And what happens is we get Keith & Karen from Hurst that want Alvord to be just like Hurst, but better. They are now big fish in small pond. They get on the city council and school board then start fucking with shit that ain't broke. Now we have a crisis that didn't have to exist. OG digs in but doesn't have the money to fight back. The only recourse is submit or move.

For reference see Decatur School Board.

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:16 PM, Lobo said:

The same reasons they've been moving there for the last 50 years.  The weather and the early-bird dinner specials.  If you think people move to Florida for the state politics, you're out of your fucking mind.  Florida has been just as blue for the last 50 years as it has been red.  I do think people flee California and New York and Illinois for Texas because of the politics/business climate, but nobody moves to Florida for that reason.  65 year olds don't move to Florida to start businesses, they move there because it makes their bones stop hurting and you can live among other cranky people in an HOA.

You seriously think Florida attracts new residents with tales of their badass state government?  

50 years of purple politics and a mixed bag of business results.  The only constant in Florida is that most of the people there are fucking insane.  

Lots of people with lots of money can work remotely now.  So FL becomes an option for permanent residency right now, when it wasn’t before.  I know it’s a small number of people overall but a good chunk of UHNW families are making their home in FL.  I would never make my permanent residence down there but to deny many people are choosing FL (yes, over Texas) is burying your head in the sand.  

[Guest Lobo]

I realize people are moving there in large numbers.  What I was contesting that the contention of "workswithseed" are moving there because of a friendly small business climate and the strategic prowess of Gov. DeSantis is not accurate.  They move there for the reasons I mentioned, and the reasons you mentioned.  If you can work remotely, near a beach, with no state income tax...then sure, Florida is a great option if you don't give a flying fuck by whom you are surrounded.  But I'd say less than 5% of the new Florida residents are moving there because they like the flavor of local politics.  

[Thatguy 8860]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:15 AM, Lobo said:

I realize people are moving there in large numbers.  What I was contesting that the contention of "workswithseed" are moving there because of a friendly small business climate and the strategic prowess of Gov. DeSantis is not accurate.  They move there for the reasons I mentioned, and the reasons you mentioned.  If you can work remotely, near a beach, with no state income tax...then sure, Florida is a great option if you don't give a flying fuck by whom you are surrounded.  But I'd say less than 5% of the new Florida residents are moving there because they like the flavor of local politics.  

Yeah, we moved from LA to Houston for the because my house was less than half the price for double the sq ft, and there were no state taxes. Property taxes in Texas are astronomical, but it's all a wash because due to the ridiculous home prices out west, the amount you pay ends up being relatively the same. It had shit all to do with the political climate.

[WBT 20669]

The last two posts confuse me.  If tax rates aren't part of the political climate, what is?