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Cavs vs. Celtics

Sidney Sherman

By Sidney Sherman
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satyanash
satyanash

I'm convinced LeBron could win an elimination game with two dachshunds, a cucumber, and Betty White on the court with him.

Thatguy
Thatguy

Welcome neighbor, come on over the water is fine. I said this before and I will say it again. I am a huge Jordan fan, as most people my age are, but I always told myself that I would never be the old

Goo Punch
Goo Punch

How is any of this a knee jerk reaction? Cleveland looked like ass in the 4 vs 5 matchup against Indiana and only won by the skin of their teeth because of LeBron’s transcendence. Might I point out th

Wally Pryor

Wally Pryor 5261

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Boston gonna try all sorts of dirty shit like they always do, but no matter - Cavs in 4.

They're the best coached team in the league and execute as well as anyone, despite being short handed.    "Dirty shit" is not something you really associate with this team.

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aggie08

aggie08 21495

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It's tough for me to picture this team, with only one fringe All-Star, being the team to finally dethrone LeBron in the East.

BUT, they did allow Giannis and Middleton to combine for 50.4 points and 9.4 assists per game on 58% shooting in the first round...and they still won. So they can theoretically absorb LeBron doing LeBron things while locking up everyone else. No one besides LeBron has an advantageous matchup on either side of the court.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32389

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I gotta say; all these predictions of the Cavs in 5 or 6 are kinda hilarious.

Boston has issues, no doubt, but Cleveland struggled with Indiana.  

Cleveland still has the same warts they had in that series.  Mind fucking Toronto didn't magically improve their defense, etc.

I'd say the series is a tossup.

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aggie08

aggie08 21495

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

I gotta say; all these predictions of the Cavs in 5 or 6 are kinda hilarious.

Boston has issues, no doubt, but Cleveland struggled with Indiana.  

Cleveland still has the same warts they had in that series.  Mind fucking Toronto didn't magically improve their defense, etc.

I'd say the series is a tossup.

To be fair, Boston also struggled with Milwaukee, and I'm pretty sure that you or I would have been a more competent coach than Prunty.

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say this series is a toss-up (picture those two close games in Round 1 that Boston won with 4th quarter LeBron instead of Prunty and tripping all over himself Bledsoe), but Boston does have a puncher's chance.  LBJ had almost identical stats in rounds 1 and 2; the difference was the supporting cast.  And, like I said earlier, Boston has a pretty strong advantage in literally every other match-up.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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54 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Celts in 6. Team out plays Cle and LBJ cannot do it all. Will be a fun series for sure. 

 

 

I think back to 2016 and you net out a few guys (Kyrie/IT) and then look at the lineup and I'm starting to feel like this could be a series that ends in a sweep or a 5 game tilt to the cavs.  The cavs are worse on paper than they were last year but the celtics are a lot worse on paper than they were.  They'd be a reasonably large favorite if they weren't injured like they are, but this series has all of the makings of cleveland steamrolling if their non-lebrons play at or just above their average production.

If this series is close then it will 100% be because of Brad Stevens.  I think it is safe to say that he is the best coach in the league at this point.  I'd even put him above pop.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

I think back to 2016 and you net out a few guys (Kyrie/IT) and then look at the lineup and I'm starting to feel like this could be a series that ends in a sweep or a 5 game tilt to the cavs.  The cavs are worse on paper than they were last year but the celtics are a lot worse on paper than they were.  They'd be a reasonably large favorite if they weren't injured like they are, but this series has all of the makings of cleveland steamrolling if their non-lebrons play at or just above their average production.

If this series is close then it will 100% be because of Brad Stevens.  I think it is safe to say that he is the best coach in the league at this point.  I'd even put him above pop.

He's not better than Pop.   He just has a much better roster than Pop.   Even with all the injuries the BOS roster >>>> than the SA roster

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

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9 minutes ago, d2o said:

He's not better than Pop.   He just has a much better roster than Pop.   Even with all the injuries the BOS roster >>>> than the SA roster

I chewed on it before I made the comment but I think the only reason you could argue that Pop is better is because of the culture he had cultivated over 20 or so years.  I don't think pop is better at in-game X/O. I do think he has more control over his program.  I think I give stevens the nod because his teams haven't played worse despite key players going down at various points in the season.  

I guess I'd say 1a and 1b, but if stevens isn't #1 then he is right there and once pop calls it quits stevens is head and shoulders above anyone else.  I think by the time pop calls it quits his culture will be gone as well.  TP and Manu just aren't the influence they used to be and with Kawhi doing god knows what it kind of appears to me that pop is losing the grip that he used to have.  We know LMA doesn't give a fuck and just wants money and the ball in his hand.  That is why I would say stevens is better than pop and that is pretty circumstantial and not really about their coaching ability.  I think LMA is going to kill the spurs culture before his contract is up.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20916

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Still not sold on anyone from the Cavs consistently stepping up besides LeBron.  Love is playing well but I think he can be neutralized by Boston defense. Same with Korver and the rest of that ragtag roster. 

Stevens is a great coach. I'd let LeBron get his and just focus on stopping everyone else.  Think it will be a great series and I'm sure LBJ will make me look stupid, but Boston in 7. 

 

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d2o

d2o 1602

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I've said it from the start of the season and it hasn't changed.   I'm not buying that any of these east teams can beat Lebron until they do.   Cavs in 6 strictly off the strength of Stevens.

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Chult86

Chult86 335

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6 hours ago, aggie08 said:

It's tough for me to picture this team, with only one fringe All-Star, being the team to finally dethrone LeBron in the East.

BUT, they did allow Giannis and Middleton to combine for 50.4 points and 9.4 assists per game on 58% shooting in the first round...and they still won. So they can theoretically absorb LeBron doing LeBron things while locking up everyone else. No one besides LeBron has an advantageous matchup on either side of the court.

Ya but then they only had to worry about the other three players. LeBron will put up 35/8/10 and they will have to worry about four others instead. The image of LeBron vs Lowry/DeRozan total stats in the series was crazy to see.

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 47017

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I gotta say; all these predictions of the Cavs in 5 or 6 are kinda hilarious.
Boston has issues, no doubt, but Cleveland struggled with Indiana.  
Cleveland still has the same warts they had in that series.  Mind fucking Toronto didn't magically improve their defense, etc.
I'd say the series is a tossup.
Ok? And Boston struggled with the fucking 7 seed Milwaukee who is not that good. Indiana is better than Milwaukee.

Cavs in 5.
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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32389

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20 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Ok? And Boston struggled with the fucking 7 seed Milwaukee who is not that good. Indiana is better than Milwaukee.

Cavs in 5.

Indiana won 3 games by a combined 54 points.

Cleveland won 4 games by a combined 14 points.

 

Milwaukee won 3 games by a combined 37 points

Boston won 4 games by a combined 41 points.

 

Looks like a wash to me, other than Cleveland's defense is still shit.

At some point, however, people need to recognize that Boston might just be pretty good.  The vast majority of the NBA watching planet, including this board, said Bucks would win the series easily, because there are too many injuries, whatever.  Same thing with the Sixers.

Neither of those teams have LBJ; I'll concede that.  But none of those teams, including Cleveland, has Stevens.  And that has to be worth something.

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Thatguy

Thatguy 8685

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I think this comes down to matchups. The Cavs struggled with the bigs of Indy, but Boston doesn't have those. The Cavs will be able to attack the rim, and when Boston helps that will open things up for spot up shooters. On the other side, the Cavs don't have any rim protection, so Boston will be able to take them off the bounce at will. I see close games, but I feel like thew Cavs' experience is what will get them over the hump. This Boston team is growing up before our eyes.

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HookEm

HookEm 2467

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Boston in 5. Philly was better than the Cavs top to bottom and Boston dispatched them.

People are continually underrating Horford. He has been great in these playoffs. Tatum is great. Brown is great. Their players rise to the occasion as a unit. One goes down, another steps right in.

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Chult86

Chult86 335

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12 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Boston in 5. Philly was better than the Cavs top to bottom and Boston dispatched them.

People are continually underrating Horford. He has been great in these playoffs. Tatum is great. Brown is great. Their players rise to the occasion as a unit. One goes down, another steps right in.

Not sure about that.

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Pam Cummings

Pam Cummings 9640

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Posted (edited)

Obviously Stevens is a great coach but let's tap the brakes on him being the best in the league. Win a championship and we can start talking about it.

The Celtics are a lot more talented than people give them credit for. Yes, they lost Hayward, but the Jazz don't seem to have suffered too much from his absence either. Same thing with Kyrie and the Cavs.

Brown, Tatum, and Rozier are all really good young players. They've been given a chance to grow up this year. Horford is a former lottery pick who works great when he isn't being asked to do everything night in and night out. He's like their Iguodala. Marcus Smart is a great energy guy, he does some bone headed stuff but he is a talented defender and can make a play when need be.

 

Obviously getting the most of out players like Baynes and Morris is a testament to how good Stevens is as a coach, but this team has a lot of talent too, and really Ainge should be getting credit for building such a deep roster.

 

All that said, Cavs in 6.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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14 hours ago, Bogeywon said:

cavs in 5. LeBron is just too good to not advance.  also this years playoffs have really fun to watch

I thought this last round was one of the worst in recent memory, and that overall these playoffs haven’t been very compelling to this point. Aside from Cavs/Pacers we’ve been getting 7-game series’ from crap matchups and 4 and 5 game series’ our if compelling matchups.

Edited by Goo Punch
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d2o

d2o 1602

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10 hours ago, HookEm said:

Boston in 5. Philly was better than the Cavs top to bottom and Boston dispatched them.

People are continually underrating Horford. He has been great in these playoffs. Tatum is great. Brown is great. Their players rise to the occasion as a unit. One goes down, another steps right in.

19938895.jpg

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aggie08

aggie08 21495

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13 hours ago, HookEm said:

Boston in 5. Philly was better than the Cavs top to bottom and Boston dispatched them.

People are continually underrating Horford. He has been great in these playoffs. Tatum is great. Brown is great. Their players rise to the occasion as a unit. One goes down, another steps right in.

I fucking love me some Al Horford.  But he's 1-16 against LeBron in the playoffs in his career, and one of those years he was on a 60 win team.

But this year's Celts team is absolutely better than last year's (Tatum > IT, Rozier > Bradley, Brown is better, Morris and Baynes bring a toughness they didn't have, etc.), and the Cavs are unequivocally worse.  So we'll see.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32389

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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23465885/zach-lowe-boston-celtics-toughness-nba-playoffs

Quote

Almost every playoff team has one or two guys who make you wonder: Are they really ready for this? Are they going to shrink under postseason pressure? How will they respond when the other team amps up the physicality?

Boston has zero such players. This is a fierce team. No one is afraid to shoot, or venture outside his proven skill set -- something almost everyone has had to do since Irving's knee surgery. They give maximum effort every second. It is a focused effort; they rarely veer out of scheme. Hit them, and they hit back -- harder. Nurturing such a strong culture while returning only four players from last season's team is an enormous challenge.

Quote

There are no bells and whistles to Boston's culture. They don't regularly host famous guest speakers or take field trips. They'll organize occasional team dinners, but there are no ritualistic, hours-long nights of wine, food and storytelling. Stevens, Ainge and the veteran players have created an environment of serious, hard, consistent work.

Stevens essentially has banned rookie hazing. He wants rookies to take as much ownership of the team as the stars -- and to voice their opinions. (This is the same reason Stevens declines to name captains.) Pranks waste time. He was not thrilled last season when culprits unknown filled Brown's car with popcorn. "Oh, Brad was not happy," Brown said. "He had my back."

Quote

Boston is endlessly resourceful. The Celtics have won eight games in which they trailed by 15 points, the third-highest single-season total since 1996, per research from ESPN Stats & Information. When Philly gummed up their motion offense, the Celtics resorted to simple brutality: Smart posting up Redick; Brown driving into the chest of his defenders, bumping them off, and hitting floaters; Tatum slithering inside for any kind of shot you can imagine; and Horford bullying for post-up buckets.

They pounce on mismatches instantly -- a vicious, smart opportunism. (They are about to go at Kyle Korver a lot.) Whenever the Celtics caught Philly crashing the offensive glass without success, they accelerated into fast-break mode.

It might end now, against LeBron James and an awakened scoring juggernaut. Boston needed Game 7 at home to squeak by a confused Bucks team. Philly shot just 39 percent on wide-open 3-pointers and an embarrassing 25 percent on open 3s, per NBA.com. The Sixers underperformed their expected effective field-goal percentage -- based on shot location and the proximity of defenders -- by almost 5 percentage points, the largest differential among all second-round teams, per Second Spectrum tracking data.

Boston still struggles getting to the rim and finishing there. There will be droughts in which the Celtics feel the void left by Irving and Hayward. They will hunt talent upgrades in the offseason, like they always do. (Note to San Antonio Spurs fans pitching Kawhi Leonard deals involving Tatum and lots of other stuff: It's not clear Boston would do Tatum for Leonard straight up without getting a clean bill of health for Leonard and an assurance he re-signs. Tatum is on a rookie deal for three more seasons. A max deal for Leonard would make it hard to keep guys like Smart and Rozier, even for the short term.)

But they will make Cleveland earn it. Horford and Tatum both think back to a conversation they had after a stirring early-season victory in Miami -- their fourth straight in what would cascade into a 16-game win streak. Horford approached Tatum in the locker room with a message intended to be both hopeful and a reminder of the work to come.

"If we keep playing like this," Horford told Tatum, both recalled, "we are going to be all right."

 

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