Cavs vs. Celtics

[Goo Punch 4275]

This is what Embiid does; this is who he is. He talks trash and stirs the pot. I love it, and the nba needs more of it. Embiid is creating rivalries all over the East, and it makes for some compelling games which would otherwise be meaningless.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Thatguy 8682]

55 minutes ago, d2o said:

I'm really surprsied that wasn't a larger story.   I always felt like he wasn't exactly excited about the success they were having but not showing up for what could be the last game of the season is a bad look

   Kyrie didn't care about the success he was having in Cleveland either.

[Message Board User 12395]

This is crazy.

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Can anyone confirm if there's a Chipotle near the Toyota Center and the Oracle?

 

Smart move. Chipotles barbacoa is the freakin bomb. now i want one

[Message Board User 12395]

6 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Smart move. Chipotles barbacoa is the freakin bomb. now i want one

 

[Thatguy 8682]

11 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I have become a convert. LeBron James is the greatest of all time. That title no longer belongs to Jordan

 

   Welcome neighbor, come on over the water is fine. I said this before and I will say it again. I am a huge Jordan fan, as most people my age are, but I always told myself that I would never be the old man still clinging to his heroes the way I saw guys doing when Jordan was playing back when WE were young. That said this guy is the best player I have ever seen. He is as good offensively as anyone has ever been, but it's his other abilities that are what put him over the top. The ridiculous passing. The ability to know when you need to affect a game, and how you need to do it. Last night Jordan or Kobe would've saw that his teammates didn't have it, kept jacking, and they would've lost. Lebron came out and tried to get his teammates going. When he saw they didn't have it he went to work and kept them in striking distance, then he came back to them when the game and nerves settled down. That is exactly what Houston needed the other night, and something taken for granted by the casual fan.

  People who want Jordan to continue to be Goat will always point to the Finals record. However it IS a team sport, and your success depends on your teammates and who you are playing. I look at it like this. Jordan's Bulls beat everyone they were supposed to beat. Lebron's legacy will always have the 2011 smudge on it, but it will also have 2016 on it as well, something Jordan never did.

 

[SilasCoade 2622]

6 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   Welcome neighbor, come on over the water is fine. I said this before and I will say it again. I am a huge Jordan fan, as most people my age are, but I always told myself that I would never be the old man still clinging to his heroes the way I saw guys doing when Jordan was playing back when WE were young. That said this guy is the best player I have ever seen. He is as good offensively as anyone has ever been, but it's his other abilities that are what put him over the top. The ridiculous passing. The ability to know when you need to affect a game, and how you need to do it. Last night Jordan or Kobe would've saw that his teammates didn't have it, kept jacking, and they would've lost. Lebron came out and tried to get his teammates going. When he saw they didn't have it he went to work and kept them in striking distance, then he came back to them when the game and nerves settled down. That is exactly what Houston needed the other night, and something taken for granted by the casual fan.

  People who want Jordan to continue to be Goat will always point to the Finals record. However it IS a team sport, and your success depends on your teammates and who you are playing. I look at it like this. Jordan's Bulls beat everyone they were supposed to beat. Lebron's legacy will always have the 2011 smudge on it, but it will also have 2016 on it as well, something Jordan never did.

 

Kobe's team would have lost with him playing hero ball, not sure about Jordan's. That said, MJ was never asked to carry a boat load of scrubs like this to the finals. Mad respect to Lebron for this season and especially playoff run. Puts him over the top for me.

[Message Board User 12395]

After last night, we should put the whole "it's better to lose before the Finals" narrative to bed.

As a fan, I love when I see dudes giving everything they have.  Lebron loves clichés but he was absolutely right that he gave absolutely everything he possibly could last night and in this series (now, in the regular season it's a different story - he certainly coasts then).  In a weird way, my admiration grew through his failures as much as his victories - the loss in the ECF to the Magic where he put up 40-8-8 and the 2015 Finals after Kyrie & Love went down and it was him vs GS are two such examples.  That you could see him completely worn out in a loss elevates him in my mind.  It's why he catches and still catches grief for the 2010 Boston series and the 2011 Finals vs the Mavs (how in the world did he not score 10 points in a game) - it did not appear that he gave everything he had in those losses.  And then last night, when he looks like this after this game, even if the Cavs had lost it would not have changed my opinion of him:

Edited May 28, 2018 by Message Board User

[d2o 1602]

17 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   Welcome neighbor, come on over the water is fine. I said this before and I will say it again. I am a huge Jordan fan, as most people my age are, but I always told myself that I would never be the old man still clinging to his heroes the way I saw guys doing when Jordan was playing back when WE were young. That said this guy is the best player I have ever seen. He is as good offensively as anyone has ever been, but it's his other abilities that are what put him over the top. The ridiculous passing. The ability to know when you need to affect a game, and how you need to do it. Last night Jordan or Kobe would've saw that his teammates didn't have it, kept jacking, and they would've lost. Lebron came out and tried to get his teammates going. When he saw they didn't have it he went to work and kept them in striking distance, then he came back to them when the game and nerves settled down. That is exactly what Houston needed the other night, and something taken for granted by the casual fan.

  People who want Jordan to continue to be Goat will always point to the Finals record. However it IS a team sport, and your success depends on your teammates and who you are playing. I look at it like this. Jordan's Bulls beat everyone they were supposed to beat. Lebron's legacy will always have the 2011 smudge on it, but it will also have 2016 on it as well, something Jordan never did.

 

Bingo!

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12453]

Best basketball players of all time in this old geezer's eyes:

 

1) Wilt

2) Lebron

3) Michael Jordan

Leborn has passed MJ with this season/post season.

[Message Board User 12395]

Missed Game 7 to get that nose job.

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

10 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Missed Game 7 to get that nose job.

 

I hate when they schedule those at the least convenient time

Edited May 28, 2018 by MNLonghornFUKM

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

 

Have a feeling that rating may be broken tonight.....

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

   Welcome neighbor, come on over the water is fine. I said this before and I will say it again. I am a huge Jordan fan, as most people my age are, but I always told myself that I would never be the old man still clinging to his heroes the way I saw guys doing when Jordan was playing back when WE were young. That said this guy is the best player I have ever seen. He is as good offensively as anyone has ever been, but it's his other abilities that are what put him over the top. The ridiculous passing. The ability to know when you need to affect a game, and how you need to do it. Last night Jordan or Kobe would've saw that his teammates didn't have it, kept jacking, and they would've lost. Lebron came out and tried to get his teammates going. When he saw they didn't have it he went to work and kept them in striking distance, then he came back to them when the game and nerves settled down. That is exactly what Houston needed the other night, and something taken for granted by the casual fan.

  People who want Jordan to continue to be Goat will always point to the Finals record. However it IS a team sport, and your success depends on your teammates and who you are playing. I look at it like this. Jordan's Bulls beat everyone they were supposed to beat. Lebron's legacy will always have the 2011 smudge on it, but it will also have 2016 on it as well, something Jordan never did.

 

I agree that LeBron is the best basketball player in history, but here’s my thing about his newly-found GOAT status- if the Cavs lose the Finals 4-1 to a less-than-100% team from the West, will you still be able to confidently go around calling him the GOAT? For me he’s the best ever right now, but I’m waiting to see how his career plays out before I call him the GOAT. As unlikely as it seems he may have already won his last title, and if that’s the case, then it’s MJ > Bron, Magic, Kareem, Russell etc for GOAT.

[Chult86 335]

32 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

I agree that LeBron is the best basketball player in history, but here’s my thing about his newly-found GOAT status- if the Cavs lose the Finals 4-1 to a less-than-100% team from the West, will you still be able to confidently go around calling him the GOAT? For me he’s the best ever right now, but I’m waiting to see how his career plays out before I call him the GOAT. As unlikely as it seems he may have already won his last title, and if that’s the case, then it’s MJ > Bron, Magic, Kareem, Russell etc for GOAT.

LBJ dragging this team to the finals is immeasurably more impressive than MJ losing to the Pistons in the first round. Anyone who says that him losing this Finals will tarnish his legacy/GOATstatus does not understand basketball whatsoever.

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 minute ago, Chult86 said:

LBJ dragging this team to the finals is immeasurably more impressive than MJ losing to the Pistons in the first round. Anyone who says that him losing this Finals will tarnish his legacy/GOATstatus does not understand basketball whatsoever.

Huh, so losing doesn’t affect ones case for the greatest player of all time. Guess I don’t understand basketball whatsoever.

[Chult86 335]

10 minutes ago, Chult86 said:

LBJ dragging this team to the finals is immeasurably more impressive than MJ losing to the Pistons in the first round. Anyone who says that him losing this Finals will tarnish his legacy/GOATstatus does not understand basketball whatsoever.

 

[Chult86 335]

The Cavs aren't beating either of GSW/Rockets

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Missed Game 7 to get that nose job.

 

Not exactly..... He had to get his face cleaned up from the facial fractures earlier in the season.  You can't fly after having this type of surgery.  Not exactly an optional cosmetic procedure.

Quote

"It was a residual from the facial fracture he had earlier in the season," Wechsler said, noting the fracture that Irving suffered in November that forced him to wear a mask. "He had the knee surgery, and now he's taken care of this sinus surgery, so he will be all set going forward."

Ainge didn't seem to care at all about it and team knew and supported the decision so he'll be ready to start working out this summer...

[Goo Punch 4275]

Boston should have gotten out ahead of the story if that’s the case. They had to have known his absence would make headlines, and all they had to do was make an announcement before the game.

[Vic Mackey 47012]

Daddy Lebron sacrificing so his kids can celebrate. Lmao

Edited May 28, 2018 by Vic Mackey

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Not exactly..... He had to get his face cleaned up from the facial fractures earlier in the season.  You can't fly after having this type of surgery.  Not exactly an optional cosmetic procedure.

Ainge didn't seem to care at all about it and team knew and supported the decision so he'll be ready to start working out this summer...

He had to do it right before gm 7?  If he has waited this long, what's a few more days?  and if they knew this why wouldn't the C's release some sort of statement prior?

Edited May 28, 2018 by d2o

[Message Board User 12395]

Honorary Cav Dahntay Jones (thanks for those key 5 points right before the half in Game 6) shares his thoughts on Paul Pierce.

 

[kopp0e 1135]

6 hours ago, Message Board User said:

After last night, we should put the whole "it's better to lose before the Finals" narrative to bed.

As a fan, I love when I see dudes giving everything they have.  Lebron loves clichés but he was absolutely right that he gave absolutely everything he possibly could last night and in this series (now, in the regular season it's a different story - he certainly coasts then).  In a weird way, my admiration grew through his failures as much as his victories - the loss in the ECF to the Magic where he put up 40-8-8 and the 2015 Finals after Kyrie & Love went down and it was him vs GS are two such examples.  That you could see him completely worn out in a loss elevates him in my mind.  It's why he catches and still catches grief for the 2010 Boston series and the 2011 Finals vs the Mavs (how in the world did he not score 10 points in a game) - it did not appear that he gave everything he had in those losses.  And then last night, when he looks like this after this game, even if the Cavs had lost it would not have changed my opinion of him:

I never thought I would see a player that would compare to Jordan in my lifetime, then there were two close together in Kobe & LeBron...

(But in all honesty, I don't think Curry will last as long as either of the two I just mentioned)...

[kopp0e 1135]

3 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Have a feeling that rating may be broken tonight.....

 

Agreed...

[Vic Mackey 47012]

I never thought I would see a player that would compare to Jordan in my lifetime, then there were two close together in Kobe & LeBron...
(But in all honesty, I don't think Curry will last as long as either of the two I just mentioned)...

Kobe is not even close to Lebron. At all.

[kopp0e 1135]

Just now, Vic Mackey said:

16 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

I never thought I would see a player that would compare to Jordan in my lifetime, then there were two close together in Kobe & LeBron...
(But in all honesty, I don't think Curry will last as long as either of the two I just mentioned)...

Kobe is not even close to Lebron. At all.

I can see your point, but I was talking about best athletes on teams that contended for titles within the last 15 or so seasons since MJ retired...

You're right Vic, KB only won titles when he either played with Shaq or Pau... While LJ has played with pixie dust in the absence of Kyrie in Cleveland, & (mostly) carried the Heat...

[SilasCoade 2622]

53 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

I never thought I would see a player that would compare to Jordan in my lifetime, then there were two close together in Kobe & LeBron...

(But in all honesty, I don't think Curry will last as long as either of the two I just mentioned)...

Kobe not even in the discussion. Come on.

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Kobe not even in the discussion. Come on.

He's the best imitation of MJ.   That's the best I can do.   He isn't in the GOAT conversation

 

[Vic Mackey 47012]

Isiah Thomas weighs in on the debate

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

7 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

I agree that LeBron is the best basketball player in history, but here’s my thing about his newly-found GOAT status- if the Cavs lose the Finals 4-1 to a less-than-100% team from the West, will you still be able to confidently go around calling him the GOAT? For me he’s the best ever right now, but I’m waiting to see how his career plays out before I call him the GOAT. As unlikely as it seems he may have already won his last title, and if that’s the case, then it’s MJ > Bron, Magic, Kareem, Russell etc for GOAT.

I'm confused.  You'll have to explain the difference between "the best ever" and "goat"'  and "best basketball player in history".

Those all seem the same to me. 

 

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I'm confused.  You'll have to explain the difference between "the best ever" and "goat"'  and "best basketball player in history".

Those all seem the same to me. 

 

 

KD is the best basketball player to ever play at Texas. TJ Ford is the GOAT.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Thats not how explaining works. But I'll try this another way.  So if you were starting a team and choosing only ut players, who would you choose, kd or tj?  

Because if I had to choose from nba players to start a team I'd choose LeBron every single time.  That's how I determine goat/best ever/whatever you want to call it.  

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 minute ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Thats not how explaining works.   

 

Yes it is.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

9 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Yes it is.

Ok then, now explain it like I never watched a single KD or TJ college game. 

[Orca of Peace 109]

if Lebron beats Houston or GS in the Finals, I'm calling him the greatest athlete in all 4 North American team sports. Better than Ruth, Mays, NFLer and even Gretzky. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

14 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Ok then, now explain it like I never watched a single KD or TJ college game. 

Kevin Durant is a better basketball player, TJ Ford accomplished more. Which also means that I’m totally open to considering calling LeBron the GOAT going forward. If he wins another title or two he will be hard to deny. If he never wins another title as a team’s best player? I don’t know about calling him the GOAT.

 

Also, imo it’s impossible to have an educated debate on this without giving LeBron more blame for his own teams’ shortcomings. People constantly talk about how many comparatively inferior teams LeBron played on but *he constructed those teams*. If they weren’t great it was because they were paying a bunch of LeBron’s friends/chosen teammates way too much money just to keep LeBron happy. You can’t use his crappy teams to prop him up when he is the one who compiled the pieces. How many millions has Dan Gilbert spent essentially against his will to please LeBron, and at the detriment of the team? 

[Dutchrudder 11136]

K, then give MJ some shit for fucking up 2 years of his career by gambling, and retiring early.

[immortal13 4059]

3 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

K, then give MJ some shit for fucking up 2 years of his career by gambling, and retiring early.

If not for that, he would probably have 2 or 3 more rings

[Goo Punch 4275]

4 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

K, then give MJ some shit for fucking up 2 years of his career by gambling, and retiring early.

I do. That’s why it’s even a debate. If he hadn’t had his own troubles he’d have 7 or 8 rings and this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

[Orca of Peace 109]

the 1995 Houston title was legit . The 1994 is debatable. Reason is that MJ did play in the 95 playoffs, rust is not much of an excuse since gave 55 to NYK, Orlando had more overall talent than the Bulls who di dnot have Rodman or even Horace Grant who was with Orlando. 

[Thatguy 8682]

19 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

I agree that LeBron is the best basketball player in history, but here’s my thing about his newly-found GOAT status- if the Cavs lose the Finals 4-1 to a less-than-100% team from the West, will you still be able to confidently go around calling him the GOAT? For me he’s the best ever right now, but I’m waiting to see how his career plays out before I call him the GOAT. As unlikely as it seems he may have already won his last title, and if that’s the case, then it’s MJ > Bron, Magic, Kareem, Russell etc for GOAT.

   These first 15 years haven't given you enough data?

I keep saying this, and will keep repeating it until it sinks in. The Scotty-Jordan-Grant or Scotty-Jordan-Rodman combo were better basketball players than everyone they faced in the finals. Every. Single. Team. Now let's look at Lebron.

In 2006 Lebron ran through Kidd, Vince Carter, and a spry 26 yr old Richard Jefferson squad. Then he ran through Billups, Rip, and Sheed. All who were all stars that year, plus they had Prince too. Obviously he ran up against the Spurs with 3 HOF'ers, Bowen, Horry, and Finley, but take a look at the Cavs 2006 roster.

In 2011 he lost to the Mavs but beat the Celtics with 4 All Stars on that squad.

In 2012 with his back against the wall down 3-2 he came out and beat the brakes off of Boston, scoring 29 in the first half and only missing one shot. He cruised to an easy 45 total. He also dropped 31 in the close out game. They won the title vs Westbrook, KD, and James Harden. The complimentary pieces were better too.

In 2013 they beat the Spurs, a roster that we now know had 3 HOF'ers on it, plus one of the best players in basketball named Kawhi Leonard.

In 2015 he went up against GSW with no Kyrie, no Love, no bench, and still managed to take them to 6 games.

In 2016 They came back and beat them.

 

   All of those things are things that Jordan never did. Jordan teams never beat anyone until they had the roster to do it. Until man for man they were absolutely better than the teams they were playing against. Many will say "that Piston team was old", or "That Boston team had fallen off". Well guess what? Guess what teams would've been playing for the NBA championship had it not been for Lebron James? To me that is why I think Bron is the GOAT. Winning titles is a team achievement. Durant may go on to win 5 titles, but does anyone really think that he is better than Bron because he has a better finals record? Bottom line, this dude seems like it doesn't matter who is on his team, he can will them to the finals at this point. He is a one man wrecking machine the likes of anything we have ever seen or likely will ever see again. Does anyone doubt that if you replace James Harden with Lebron James that they beat GSW?

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Thatguy

[Vic Mackey 47012]

If you replaced Lebron with Harden, they don't even find a way to beat the Pacers. Harden is a mental midget when it matters. Which is why him being MVP is laughable. Chris Paul is more valuable to that team than Harden.

[Orca of Peace 109]

He is a one man wrecking machine the likes of anything we have ever seen or likely will ever see again. Does anyone doubt that if you replace James Harden with Lebron James that they beat GSW?

i will get killed, but as a Rox fan and knowing their window is 2018 and 2019, already half shut and if Bron wants out - trade him straight up for Harden.  I know we sacrifices 2021-24 or whatever, but I'm willing to tank to get one title.  Ask, would you trade Harden for Jordan? duh. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Orca of Peace

[d2o 1602]

28 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

If you replaced Lebron with Harden, they don't even find a way to beat the Pacers. Harden is a mental midget when it matters. Which is why him being MVP is laughable. Chris Paul is more valuable to that team than Harden.

In general, I agree.   Its why I've never put much stock into him/Rockets but Harden actually wasn't terrible.   He just wasn't next level.   28.7/5.6/6.0 would normally be pretty fucking good.    They just needed more especially when Paul went down and he cannot deliver that.  

 

24% from 3P is tough though for a guy that is generally pretty efficient. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

I'm still giving MVP to Harden who had the best season for the best team. Hes def feast or famine tho when it comes to the playoffs. Some games he can look brilliant and others he settles for long 3s instead of taking bigger guys off the dribble to the rack.

Lebrons still the best overall player in the history of the game but his season had some lulls and had quite a few less wins than the rockets.

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I'm still giving MVP to Harden who had the best season for the best team. Hes def feast or famine tho when it comes to the playoffs. Some games he can look brilliant and others he settles for long 3s instead of taking bigger guys off the dribble to the rack.

Lebrons still the best overall player in the history of the game but his season had some lulls and had quite a few less wins than the rockets.

This has happened for yrs.   The  Barkley and Malone MVPs could have gone to MJ.  At least one of the Nash MVPs were similar and could have gone to Shaq.  All led good "story" teams to historic (team-wise) seasons.

Edited May 29, 2018 by d2o

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

This has happened for yrs.   The  Barkley and Malone MVPs could have gone to MJ.  At least one of the Nash MVPs were similar and could have gone to Shaq.  All led good "story" teams to historic (team-wise) seasons.

Yep. It's definitely not an award for those who should get it by June because basically lebron would have 9 of these by now.

I don't know if I really care about the award anyways. If a team like the 04 pistons wins it all, you're not giving it to sheed or Ben Wallace even tho they won it.

Russ absolutely earned it last yr. Sure his team didn't do shit but average a triple double per game is insane. Now we just expect him to get a TD every game so its worn off.