Tell me what's happening in Afganistan (no CR. Can't we all just get along?)

[sidis 9832]

 

[52-80 19162]

47 minutes ago, Muy Frio said:

 

they should take advantage of this opportunity to gouge prices on the landing fees for kabul airport.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

47 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Isn't already a warzone?

More like a mosh pit....

[Parliament 14260]

1 hour ago, sidis said:

 

That's better than I thought.  We've been told there were +/-10k Americans to move out.  How many SIV folks?  Don't think we got a number?

[RPM 26322]

 

[MillerEP 30491]

1 hour ago, Muy Frio said:

 

That's about what I expected. I didn't think they'd be happy to let us stick around.

 

So far 20 are dead outside the airport. Most due to stampedes, including a 2-year-old girl. One was killed when they started shooting at German troops, and a sniper started shooting at the Afghan security (there are about 600 former ANA soldiers helping secure the airport hoping to get a plane seat) and the US and Afghans shot back. There were three wounded Afghans who were treated at the field hospital they set up at the airport. Now that the US is at full strength and has additional NATO forces, they extended the security perimeter to almost the civilian side gate. I imagine the plan is to secure the entire compound because that's a glaring security risk if they don't, but with the Taliban Badri troops now guarding the civilian (southern) side, the US-led forces and Taliban troops are now literally across the street from each other. The Taliban checkpoints are also supposedly only letting foreign passport holders through their checkpoints, and appear to be turning away any Afghans who don't have them, which is an issue for visa holders or those just now making their way into Kabul from far away who haven't gotten any documentation yet.

There are reports that all the Western troops are getting along like gangbusters (which we usually do), the troops are friendly, working well together, and appear to be having a good time together. Not so for the civilian side, the varying government officials and civilians from the varying countries are constantly infighting, undermining each other, and have no trust of the US who are accusing the US of intentionally keeping them in the dark and withholding information.

The Brits especially are getting really nervous, they have no faith that the current administration won't bow down to the Taliban's demands and pack up and leave on the 31st, and they still have people in the country they want to get out. They admit though that they can't do that if the US doesn't continue to provide security to the airport. So they're expected to ask the administration today to stay past the 31st until the job gets done. The British parliament voted to hold President Biden in Contempt which passed and is supposed to discuss in the G7 summit how NATO can start to pivot away from US leadership and start being more self-reliant in the future. As the tweet, I quoted says the Taliban isn't likely to be happy to let us stay past the 31st.

Meanwhile, the Taliban is continuing offensives against the Anti-Taliban forces around Panjshir, but with the bridges out they're hoping they can start negotiations with the forces there. So supposedly "peace talks" have begun. (This part is my opinion:) but this could go either way. Even though all the rhetoric of "never surrender" and things from the NA, I could see them easily backing down if offered a sweet enough deal. Whether the Taliban honors whatever deal they offer is very debatable.  

[Sgt Hulk 13785]

18 hours ago, MillerEP said:

Anti-Taliban (NA) forces from Panjshir are claiming they ambushed a Taliban convoy in Andarab killing 300. From my experience, you have to take numbers like that with a grain of salt, they like to embellish. There are also reports that they blew up the Doshakh Bridge in Salang (in Baghlan), which supposedly cuts off Taliban supply routes to the north. This was because the Taliban sent a massive offensive of supposedly 6000 fighters (again grain of salt) to clear the "resistance" out.

 

There also are reports that the Taliban is back to killing Hazaras again (an ethnic minority group who mostly are Shias) this time in the Behsud district of Wardak. The Taliban has also formed a "Special forces" outfitted with the latest captured US equipment, called the "badri 313" they went in and cleared everybody out from the civilian side of the airport (the southern side).

 

There are also reports that 300 Afghans with visas have left the airport. There are conflicting reports on this, some say they were kicked out for space limitations, while others say they asked to leave due to "unsatisfactory conditions" (i.e.e no food, water, etc.) While US helicopters are making runs outside of the airport picking people up at pre-determined spots.

 

 Meanwhile, Spain has started to accept Refugees, and Germany is withdrawing from their embassy and is bringing in infant formula, baby food, and diapers:

While US troops care for children, since there is no sanitation, food, or water for those hoping to get out:

 

The G7 summit is also expected to request to stay past August 31, because practically everyone can see the writing on the wall, this is not going to be over anytime soon. I would imagine that NATO would also be discussing how they can replace the US protecting the airport if we decide to pull chocks and sneak out in the middle of the night again. The tentative negotiations we've had with the Taliban is that we're only going to be there until the 31st, so it'll be interesting to see how they respond if we overstay our "agreement."

It’s wild. My colleagues in Qatar are receiving folks. Qataris are super strict with paperwork. Many don’t have any and are being held up with no way in while many are getting sent to other camps. We’ve been running everything from supply packages to Amazon wish lists sending everything and anything to the folks at the deid   Diapers to sanitation naps to hand sanitizer. A few good friends are commanders there and it’s round the clock logistical cluster 

[SquishMitten 10415]

19 hours ago, MillerEP said:

The G7 summit is also expected to request to stay past August 31, because practically everyone can see the writing on the wall, this is not going to be over anytime soon. I would imagine that NATO would also be discussing how they can replace the US protecting the airport if we decide to pull chocks and sneak out in the middle of the night again. The tentative negotiations we've had with the Taliban is that we're only going to be there until the 31st, so it'll be interesting to see how they respond if we overstay our "agreement."

Admittedly, I have never been in negotiations with the Taliban, but since there was an agreement I will assume they understand the concept of negotiation and contracts. When one party makes it harder for the other party to perform, then the time for completion will be extended. Them blocking people from leaving prevents us from leaving. Therefore, they can't get all pissy if we're not out in time due entirely to their actions. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

Admittedly, I have never been in negotiations with the Taliban, but since there was an agreement I will assume they understand the concept of negotiation and contracts. When one party makes it harder for the other party to perform, then the time for completion will be extended. Them blocking people from leaving prevents us from leaving. Therefore, they can't get all pissy if we're not out in time due entirely to their actions. 

You seem to be under the misguided assumption that these are rational people we're dealing with.  They're religious zealots who have no problem slitting the throat of anyone who doesn't toe their line of religious beliefs, and piety, fuck boys, and girls (who are nowhere near ready for sex let alone the sexual trauma those sick fucks lay on them).  Their very religious texts extort them to lie, and trick the infidel when possible.

This is going to end badly for a lot of Afghani citizens.  

It does look like we've now started marshaling extraction resources, but it's damned late in the game to be doing something that should have been done well BEFORE troops were pulled out.

 

Sorry Blacklab, my mistake, wasn't trying to get political with this post, or this issue, there's enough blame to go around for this fiasco. Mea culpa, mea culpa....

Edited August 23, 2021 by Onboard 2.0
take admin stuff to cr plz

[InkaUtexas 25986]

Something to keep in mind is those left behind are bargaining chips for the Taliban. They want recognition, no sanctions, etc. And yes, it is going to be very hard for so many left behind.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Something to keep in mind is those left behind are bargaining chips for the Taliban. They want recognition, no sanctions, etc. And yes, it is going to be very hard for so many left behind.

Yes, very good point.  I fucking hate people a lot.

[sidis 9832]

close to 11,000 evacuated in the last 24 hours by the united states...16,000 overall.

Edited August 23, 2021 by sidis

[Beau Vine 54254]

36 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Admittedly, I have never been in negotiations with the Taliban, but since there was an agreement I will assume they understand the concept of negotiation and contracts. When one party makes it harder for the other party to perform, then the time for completion will be extended. Them blocking people from leaving prevents us from leaving. Therefore, they can't get all pissy if we're not out in time due entirely to their actions. 

[Parliament 14260]

37 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Admittedly, I have never been in negotiations with the Taliban, but since there was an agreement I will assume they understand the concept of negotiation and contracts. When one party makes it harder for the other party to perform, then the time for completion will be extended. Them blocking people from leaving prevents us from leaving. Therefore, they can't get all pissy if we're not out in time due entirely to their actions. 

Seems they're forgetting that.  Let's airlift all the Surly 1% attorneys over there to straighten them out.

23 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You seem to be under the misguided assumption that these are rational people we're dealing with.  They're religious zealots who have no problem slitting the throat of anyone who doesn't toe their line of religious beliefs, and piety, fuck boys, and girls (who are nowhere near ready for sex let alone the sexual trauma those sick fucks lay on them).  Their very religious texts extort them to lie, and trick the infidel when possible.

 

I'm pretty sure he's joking, Dude.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Seems they're forgetting that.  Let's airlift all the Surly 1% attorneys over there to straighten them out.

I'm pretty sure he's joking, Dude.

Could be, my point still stands.

[SquishMitten 10415]

Apparently I was too tongue in cheek. No, I don't think the Taliban gives a shit about contract law nor do I think they will behave like rational actors. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

why was every other country that had assets in afghanistan caught off guard? i, like everyone else here, was paying zero attention to this shit hole until we started abandoning bases and all hell broke loose...my understanding is there was a date set. had we given other countries assurances that we weren't going to leave by that date? have other countries been methodically removing their citizens, etc.?

 

[InkaUtexas 25986]

6 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

why was every other country that had assets in afghanistan caught off guard? i, like everyone else here, was paying zero attention to this shit hole until we started abandoning bases and all hell broke loose...my understanding is there was a date set. had we given other countries assurances that we weren't going to leave by that date? have other countries been methodically removing their citizens, etc.?

 

Few thought the country would fall that fast, especially the north. The UN never pulled people out for instance. A lot of NGO's were told to get out and chose to stay. 

[Guest Lobo]

44 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Apparently I was too tongue in cheek. No, I don't think the Taliban gives a shit about contract law nor do I think they will behave like rational actors. 

is Taliban Contract Law anything like Bird Law?  If so, have I got the right guy for you! 

I still think about something my 1L Contracts professor, Anthony Skrocki, used to say---in all his years of contract law (practice, teaching, writing a textbook), he was always amazed that "Duress" wasn't used with greater frequency to break contracts.  There's a whole lot of Duress going on in Afghanistan right now, but no court to hear any of it.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

39 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Few thought the country would fall that fast, especially the north. The UN never pulled people out for instance. A lot of NGO's were told to get out and chose to stay. 

That seems to be the concencus, so you have to factor that into criticism of how it's been handled.  

[Brisketexan 105154]

1 hour ago, SquishMitten said:

Apparently I was too tongue in cheek. No, I don't think the Taliban gives a shit about contract law nor do I think they will behave like rational actors. 

Well, you're right on point 1, not on point 2.

No, they absolutely do NOT give a shit about "contract law."  Culturally, it's just not a thing.  Every relationship and "deal" is 100% transactional....we have a deal, right up until the moment that I decide it's more to my advantage to NOT have a deal.  So, when negotiating with parties like that, your path to keeping them to a deal is NOT "rely on their honor and adherence to a deal."  Rather, it is "continue to take steps that ensure that the other side is better off sticking with the deal than breaking it."

But as to them behaving like rational actors.....they've actually shown a pretty solid tendency to do so.  It may not be fair or honorable in our minds, but it's perfectly rational to act in a way of "I'll stick to the deal so long as it benefits me, and I'll dump it when it doesn't."  Being a rational actor just means that you act predictably, based on a set of rules and norms.  The Taliban doesn't follow OUR rules and norms, but that doesn't mean they aren't following ANY rules and norms.

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

why was every other country that had assets in afghanistan caught off guard? i, like everyone else here, was paying zero attention to this shit hole until we started abandoning bases and all hell broke loose...my understanding is there was a date set. had we given other countries assurances that we weren't going to leave by that date? have other countries been methodically removing their citizens, etc.?

 

 

44 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Few thought the country would fall that fast, especially the north. The UN never pulled people out for instance. A lot of NGO's were told to get out and chose to stay. 

These posts are actually interesting to me, and I hadn't thought about that.  I knew that there were dueling schools of thought in the intel community on how fast the collapse would be....but it seems that the entire western bloc all accepted the optimistic assessment and planned accordingly.  That seems odd.  And if EVERYONE screwed up the same way, it makes our US-specific failure perhaps more understandable.  Obviously, I'll never see the actual detailed intel that everyone got, but I am curious why the UK, Germany, etc., also got caught with their pants down.  

[MillerEP 30491]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

why was every other country that had assets in afghanistan caught off guard? i, like everyone else here, was paying zero attention to this shit hole until we started abandoning bases and all hell broke loose...my understanding is there was a date set. had we given other countries assurances that we weren't going to leave by that date? have other countries been methodically removing their citizens, etc.?

 

Ultimately it comes down to a mistaken level of trust all around. The US mistakenly believed the Afghan government could hold out longer so they didn't bother to have a plan outside of "Well we'll always have the embassy, so we can pull out all the security and troops and have the Afghans protect the city and airport (the only method of escape since they withdrew from Kandahar and Bagram), while we leisurely take our time telling everybody that they can drive to the embassy and we can get them out that way in manageable groups."

Our allies mistakenly believed we had a plan, and just assumed they could rely on us if things turned to shit. They also believed that the Afghan government could hold out, and also started withdrawing their troops a while back. Most were completely militarily OUT of the country, except for civilians and embassy guard troops.

The NGOs, contractors, and Non-Afghans civilians. Also mistakenly assumed that their countries would never abandon them, and also that they'd surely have some plan to get them out. However, they're spread out all around the country and increasingly became trapped but still figured somebody higher up would figure it out.

Afghans who were dual citizens of other countries were generally doing what they were told, which was sitting tight. This was because while they were granted a visa, their family members back home who weren't actively working for coalition forces were not. So they were waiting for their families to get visa request paperwork through the system, which we all know in normal circumstances could take a LONG time. Those who did get the "warnings" or "call" to get out didn't want to leave because they didn't want to leave their wife/parents/kids/etc. behind, so they stayed and then kept slowly getting more and more trapped as the Taliban were gobbling up territory.

Some of the veteran sites and things I belong to are in communication with people trapped and posting text messages saying that the Taliban is starting to become more aggressive. Tearing up some passports, turning practically everybody around, and one said they beat him over the head and gave him a concussion, while another said they punched his wife's teeth out. They're increasingly giving up and hoping for some alternative way to get out presents themselves. Which is more closely aligned to what the US is telling people. It's telling them to stop trying to make it to the airport, it's getting too dangerous.

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by MillerEP

[gsoda3 3263]

4 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

It’s wild. My colleagues in Qatar are receiving folks. Qataris are super strict with paperwork. Many don’t have any and are being held up with no way in while many are getting sent to other camps. [b]We’ve been running everything from supply packages to Amazon wish lists sending everything and anything to the folks at the deid   Diapers to sanitation naps to hand sanitizer. A few good friends are commanders there and it’s round the clock logistical cluster [/b]

is there a way to help or send donations?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

13 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

Ultimately it comes down to a mistaken level of trust all around. The US mistakenly believed the Afghan government could hold out longer so they didn't bother to have a plan outside of "Well we'll always have the embassy, so we can pull out all the security and troops and have the Afghans protect the city and airport (the only method of escape since they snuck out of Kandahar and Bagram), while we leisurely take our time telling everybody that they can drive to the embassy and we can get them out that way."

Our allies mistakenly believed we had a plan, and just assumed they could rely on us if things turned to shit. They also believed that the Afghan government could hold out, and also started withdrawing their troops a while back.

The NGOs, contractors, and Non-Afghans civilians. Also mistakenly assumed that their countries would never abandon them, and also that they'd surely have some plan to get them out.

Afghans who were dual citizens of other countries were generally doing what they were told, which was sitting tight. This was because while they were granted a visa, their family members back home who weren't actively working for coalition forces were waiting for their families to get visa request paperwork, which we all know in normal circumstances could take years. Most didn't want to leave because they didn't want to leave their wife/parents/kids/etc. behind, and then kept slowly getting more and more trapped as the Taliban were gobbling up territory.

Some of the veteran sites and things I belong to are in communication with people trapped and posting text messages saying that the Taliban is starting to tear up some passports, and continually becoming more aggressive. Tearing up some passports, one said they beat him over the head and gave him a concussion, while another said they punched his wife's teeth out. They're increasingly giving up and hoping for some alternative way to get out presents itself. 

 

that we could spend 20 years there and still have a near total lack of understanding of the place is pretty crazy to me.

[InkaUtexas 25986]

Yep, hearing the same stuff about the situation beyond the airport. Was up late last night talking to my cousin and looking at some maps. His terp is trying to get out fast, but his 3 month old daughter does not have any documents. They might try and make a run up North if the fighting in Parwan dies down. hell of a choice to make. 

 

@Brisketexan  It is a shit show for so many reasons and hindsight is 20/20. One thing being overlooked by the media are those who are not in Kabul and cannot get there. We just announced we would not reopen Bagram, but would be nice to have Khandahar, Leatherneck and Herat operational. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

28 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, you're right on point 1, not on point 2.

No, they absolutely do NOT give a shit about "contract law."  Culturally, it's just not a thing.  Every relationship and "deal" is 100% transactional....we have a deal, right up until the moment that I decide it's more to my advantage to NOT have a deal.  So, when negotiating with parties like that, your path to keeping them to a deal is NOT "rely on their honor and adherence to a deal."  Rather, it is "continue to take steps that ensure that the other side is better off sticking with the deal than breaking it."

But as to them behaving like rational actors.....they've actually shown a pretty solid tendency to do so.  It may not be fair or honorable in our minds, but it's perfectly rational to act in a way of "I'll stick to the deal so long as it benefits me, and I'll dump it when it doesn't."  Being a rational actor just means that you act predictably, based on a set of rules and norms.  The Taliban doesn't follow OUR rules and norms, but that doesn't mean they aren't following ANY rules and norms.

 

These posts are actually interesting to me, and I hadn't thought about that.  I knew that there were dueling schools of thought in the intel community on how fast the collapse would be....but it seems that the entire western bloc all accepted the optimistic assessment and planned accordingly.  That seems odd.  And if EVERYONE screwed up the same way, it makes our US-specific failure perhaps more understandable.  Obviously, I'll never see the actual detailed intel that everyone got, but I am curious why the UK, Germany, etc., also got caught with their pants down.  

I haven't heard any quotes or accounts from folks saying it would fall apart this quickly.  Having said that, what about once we knew shit was going south and troops were sent back, I keep hearing we've lost millions, and or billions in military hardware, and weaponry.  Wouldn't all of that been taken out sooner or destroyed ?

[babysdaddy 2725]

https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20210713-france-calls-on-its-citizens-to-leave-afghanistan-amid-security-fears

Frogs pulled the trigger on 7/17 

"The government will set up a special flight on the morning of July 17th, departing from Kabul, in order to allow the return to France of the entire French community," the embassy said in a statement, adding the flight will be free of cost.

"The Embassy of France formally recommends to all French citizens to take this special flight or to leave the country immediately by their own means."

France joins a growing list of countries that have either told their citizens to leave, or evacuated them -- including in recent days India and China.

The embassy said it will not be in a position to ensure the safe departure of citizens choosing to stay beyond July 17.

 

The Taliban have launched an offensive across the country since early May, when US-led foreign forces began their final withdrawal, which is now almost complete.

The hardline Islamist group has swept through much of the north, and the government now holds little more than a constellation of provincial capitals that must largely be resupplied by air.

[Cacti 191]

4 hours ago, MillerEP said:

The British parliament voted to hold President Biden in Contempt which passed and is supposed to discuss in the G7 summit how NATO can start to pivot away from US leadership and start being more self-reliant in the future.

Apology in advance for the slight derail, but NATO countries don’t have the will to wean themselves from America’s tit. England and France have certain capabilities for temporarily projecting power beyond their borders but, as a whole, NATO is damn near impotent without the U.S. And the talk of them being more self-reliant is just that: talk.

[MillerEP 30491]

24 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Yep, hearing the same stuff about the situation beyond the airport. Was up late last night talking to my cousin and looking at some maps. His terp is trying to get out fast, but his 3 month old daughter does not have any documents. They might try and make a run up North if the fighting in Parwan dies down. hell of a choice to make. 

 

@Brisketexan  It is a shit show for so many reasons and hindsight is 20/20. One thing being overlooked by the media are those who are not in Kabul and cannot get there. We just announced we would not reopen Bagram, but would be nice to have Khandahar, Leatherneck and Herat operational. 

Here is a group formed by some fellow veterans who have some contacts to get people hooked up with a case worker: https://www.alliedairlift21.com/ 

@InkaUtexas, have the terp register themselves (or your cousin do it for them if he knows all their contact info). I've been following one of the main dudes for it, a fellow Marine on Linkedin (of all places) and he's been showing pictures of people and their family that he's been able to get in.

Edited August 23, 2021 by MillerEP

[Bevo 13579]

43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, you're right on point 1, not on point 2.

No, they absolutely do NOT give a shit about "contract law."  Culturally, it's just not a thing.  Every relationship and "deal" is 100% transactional....we have a deal, right up until the moment that I decide it's more to my advantage to NOT have a deal.  So, when negotiating with parties like that, your path to keeping them to a deal is NOT "rely on their honor and adherence to a deal."  Rather, it is "continue to take steps that ensure that the other side is better off sticking with the deal than breaking it."

But as to them behaving like rational actors.....they've actually shown a pretty solid tendency to do so.  It may not be fair or honorable in our minds, but it's perfectly rational to act in a way of "I'll stick to the deal so long as it benefits me, and I'll dump it when it doesn't."  Being a rational actor just means that you act predictably, based on a set of rules and norms.  The Taliban doesn't follow OUR rules and norms, but that doesn't mean they aren't following ANY rules and norms.

You are probably not negotiating with a single entity either. They like to pretend they have a single voice but different groups are probably listening to different leaders.

[InkaUtexas 25986]

4 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

Here is a group formed by some fellow veterans who have some contacts to get people hooked up with a case worker: https://www.alliedairlift21.com/ 

@InkaUtexas, have the terp register themselves (or your cousin do it for them if he knows all their contact info). I've been following one of the main dudes for it, a fellow Marine on Linkedin (of all places) and he's been showing pictures of people and their family that he's been able to get in.

Appreciate it and passed it on. A few of them have the paper work but cannot get to HKIA. 

Also, saw on the Daily Mail (yeah I know) the US is saying no more Afghan refugees, just US Citizens and Green Card Holders. We could hold the airport as long as we wanted to, but at some point the Taliban are just going to stop people from going there. Something tells me we are going to see a massive humanitarian crisis in the coming months followed by massive migration of people trying to get to Iran or Pakistan. 

Thanks again. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Appreciate it and passed it on. A few of them have the paper work but cannot get to HKIA. 

Also, saw on the Daily Mail (yeah I know) the US is saying no more Afghan refugees, just US Citizens and Green Card Holders. We could hold the airport as long as we wanted to, but at some point the Taliban are just going to stop people from going there. Something tells me we are going to see a massive humanitarian crisis in the coming months followed by massive migration of people trying to get to Iran or Pakistan. 

Thanks again. 

The "Killing Fields" part deux.

[Sgt Hulk 13785]

35 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

is there a way to help or send donations?

This is what being posted in my military groups.  
 

Here we go. https://dixiereardetachment.com/

515 FWD JSOAC-C/J4

unit 61242

apo,ae 09309-1242

[Santo89 18]

This may have already been posted but if not I would highly recommend this doc. It highlights everything wrong with what was happening in Afghanistan militarily, police, and infrastructure wise. Local corruption, heroine addicted soldiers, child sex abuse, kidnapping, etc. The marine interviewed gets very candid about the situation and apparently a follow up interview is now being set up. Worth a watch -

 

[Brisketexan 105154]

23 minutes ago, Bevo said:

You are probably not negotiating with a single entity either. They like to pretend they have a single voice but different groups are probably listening to different leaders.

From what I know, that is also absolutely true.  While there is a central command/power structure.....there's not a lot of rigor or ability in enforcing that.  Local Taliban leader is local.  If we need to get something from/through his area, best deal with him, and make it worth his while.

A large chunk of this world doesn't deal with much of anything the way the West does.  Making deals on our terms, and ours only, is a recipe for failure.  And of course, to some extent, we did recognize that (we used bakshish, not "honor your word," as a regular means of transactions).  We just have to continue to recognize that.  For example, if we feel a need to stay past the 31st, then we're renegotiating the deal.  The Taliban may be willing to do so....what's in it for them?

[SwAss 105]

7 hours ago, Shady Ray said:

Iran providing fuel to the Taliban, which certainly seems to be one of the bigger short-term issues they were going to face.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-resumes-fuel-exports-afghanistan-after-taliban-request-union-says-2021-08-23/

 

 

 

What is a Shia nation doing supporting a hardline Sunni group?  You'd think they would be diametrically opposed to the Taliban based on sectarian lines?

[BabaYaga 15301]

28 minutes ago, Bevo said:

You are probably not negotiating with a single entity either. They like to pretend they have a single voice but different groups are probably listening to different leaders.

Hence my earlier analogy of negotiating with the Comanche back in the day.  Hell, the who concept of Afghanistan as a unified "Country" is foreign to them.  It's a collection of tribal regions, but has never and may never be viewed internally as a country.  That is such a foreign, western idea that most dismiss.  

[BabaYaga 15301]

1 minute ago, SwAss said:

 

What is a Shia nation doing supporting a hardline Sunni group?  You'd think they would be diametrically opposed to the Taliban based on sectarian lines?

They have been a proxy against the US in the region going back decades.  The enemy of my enemy.....and all that.  

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The Taliban may be willing to do so....what's in it for them?

72 virgins? 

[Brisketexan 105154]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

72 virgins? 

"Best I can do is a flock of sheep who have never been in College Station."

[Saint Tacky 1614]

13 minutes ago, SwAss said:

 

What is a Shia nation doing supporting a hardline Sunni group?  You'd think they would be diametrically opposed to the Taliban based on sectarian lines?

Because the United States. The "enemy of my enemy is my ally" always seems to work for everyone but America. Why is that?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Because we want to be everyone's friend

[MillerEP 30491]

We're now at 3 babies and counting being born amid the evacuations:

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/afghanistan-evacuation-flight-births/?fbclid=IwAR0sfvr4uy6XZJ0IS1sfhpBxhcPV8BYL0Aww-HYChzZwpl3S4E3aFmIlWVg

Three babies born amid Afghanistan evacuation, general says

There may be more.

BY DAVID ROZA | UPDATED AUG 23, 2021 8:24 PM

[Poe It Up 126]

46 minutes ago, Santo89 said:

This may have already been posted but if not I would highly recommend this doc. It highlights everything wrong with what was happening in Afghanistan militarily, police, and infrastructure wise. Local corruption, heroine addicted soldiers, child sex abuse, kidnapping, etc. The marine interviewed gets very candid about the situation and apparently a follow up interview is now being set up. Worth a watch -

 

So, um yeah… we literally had to explain not to shit where you eat. Can’t believe it didn’t work out! 

[InkaUtexas 25986]

53 minutes ago, Santo89 said:

This may have already been posted but if not I would highly recommend this doc. It highlights everything wrong with what was happening in Afghanistan militarily, police, and infrastructure wise. Local corruption, heroine addicted soldiers, child sex abuse, kidnapping, etc. The marine interviewed gets very candid about the situation and apparently a follow up interview is now being set up. Worth a watch -

 

It is good, but it shows the lowest tier of the Afghan Security forces. These dudes basically were cannon fodder and joined the ANA/ANP because their local warlord told them to. There was another side of the ANA, the five primary Army Corps and their Special Forces. These dudes did become more professional. 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

8 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

So, um yeah… we literally had to explain not to shit where you eat. Can’t believe it didn’t work out! 

I mean, what's the difference between that and College Station?

[gsoda3 3263]

This is what being posted in my military groups.  
 
Here we go. https://dixiereardetachment.com/
515 FWD JSOAC-C/J4
unit 61242
apo,ae 09309-1242

Are they still active? The last update and donation on the page was from before Christmas. Looking to help immediately with the current effort in Afghanistan or wherever these refugees are going.

[Sgt Hulk 13785]

2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

1 hour ago, Sgt Hulk said:

This is what being posted in my military groups.  
 
Here we go. https://dixiereardetachment.com/
515 FWD JSOAC-C/J4
unit 61242
apo,ae 09309-1242

Are they still active? The last update and donation on the page was from before Christmas. Looking to help immediately with the current effort in Afghanistan or wherever these refugees are going.

Some of these are getting overwhelmed. I had a c-17 Amazon wish list link that was pulled down and chaplain has pulled some down it’s getting overwhelmed 

[InkaUtexas 25986]

3 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I mean, what's the difference between that and College Station?

So you are saying these dudes are the aggy of Afghanistan? Interesting. 

[BabaYaga 15301]