Legal Marketing that Works

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

I'm a 15 year lawyer and also manage my small firm.  I'm dissatisfied with the current client base and need to make some changes. I get bombarded all the time with SEO and online marketing ads, calls and emails.  I've invested in SEO, but it hasn't really worked. We've done some networking groups (BNI, mixers for local COCs, etc.) but those are roomfuls of sellers in my experience. What do y'all do for client generation that has been successful?

[Neonmoon 38,129]

 

[Guest Lobo]

3 hours ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I'm a 15 year lawyer and also manage my small firm.  I'm dissatisfied with the current client base and need to make some changes. I get bombarded all the time with SEO and online marketing ads, calls and emails.  I've invested in SEO, but it hasn't really worked. We've done some networking groups (BNI, mixers for local COCs, etc.) but those are roomfuls of sellers in my experience. What do y'all do for client generation that has been successful?

What type of law do you practice?  

[staboner 4,969]

following

My company does marketing analytics work for legal folks but for large brands. I would be worried our solutions can't apply to smaller outfits. Curious to follow and understand the recommendations you get here. 

as lobo asks....what type of law?

size of your business?

any commentary on the supply side of your specialization you can share. names of competitors, typical size, turnover estimate, really anything there wouod help 

[davidg 4,036]

Have you tried a good yellow page ad?  Maybe some bus stop benches?

[CooterBrown 18,002]

Make a music video.

 

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

16 hours ago, Lobo said:

What type of law do you practice?  

We are a small, full-service firm.  Our core practice areas are corporate and transactional, litigation, trial and appeals, intellectual property (prosecution and litigation), real estate, family law, probate and estate planning.  We have practiced some in bankruptcy court - creditor claims, some trustee representation, litigation of claims in bankruptcy court.  We've done some oil and gas.  Some labor and employment.  Some administrative law.

In the past, we tried (maybe not hard enough and maybe not doing the right things) to market ourselves as outside general counsel.  Basically, as the go-to legal resource for companies too small to hire inside counsel.  That's what we'd probably like to do if we could pick a single practice area or niche.  Not sure if it's tenable.  I've been encouraged to choose a single practice area, boutique-style, or industry and focus on that exclusively.  I could never quite make that jump because it would be leaving behind some existing work and clients and making ourselves smaller focused just seemed like it was going to cause us to miss some opportunities.

At this point, I'm tired of working for low-grade clients on low-grade matters.  What ends up happening far too often is that the client gets part way into their matter and starts running out of money.  Then you are trying to get creative with billing, most likely taking a big haircut, while still trying to deliver quality legal work and positive outcomes for the client.  I'm just getting tired of doing everything cut rate or not getting paid altogether and feeling like I'm forced to take flyers all the time on questionable work just to keep the lights on.

[Incredulity 11,644]

Start networking with bankers and accountants in your area for leads to growing businesses.  Local banks and local accounting firms. 

[Deej 76,750]

 

[DalTxHornFan 3,097]

On 8/24/2021 at 12:33 PM, Ojo Rojo said:

We are a small, full-service firm.  Our core practice areas are corporate and transactional, litigation, trial and appeals, intellectual property (prosecution and litigation), real estate, family law, probate and estate planning.  We have practiced some in bankruptcy court - creditor claims, some trustee representation, litigation of claims in bankruptcy court.  We've done some oil and gas.  Some labor and employment.  Some administrative law.

In the past, we tried (maybe not hard enough and maybe not doing the right things) to market ourselves as outside general counsel.  Basically, as the go-to legal resource for companies too small to hire inside counsel.  That's what we'd probably like to do if we could pick a single practice area or niche.  Not sure if it's tenable.  I've been encouraged to choose a single practice area, boutique-style, or industry and focus on that exclusively.  I could never quite make that jump because it would be leaving behind some existing work and clients and making ourselves smaller focused just seemed like it was going to cause us to miss some opportunities.

At this point, I'm tired of working for low-grade clients on low-grade matters.  What ends up happening far too often is that the client gets part way into their matter and starts running out of money.  Then you are trying to get creative with billing, most likely taking a big haircut, while still trying to deliver quality legal work and positive outcomes for the client.  I'm just getting tired of doing everything cut rate or not getting paid altogether and feeling like I'm forced to take flyers all the time on questionable work just to keep the lights on.

With respect, it sounds like your firm dabbles in lots of practice areas (too many, IMHO).  I'd want to pick some core practice specialties and refer other matters to firms that specialize in that kind of work.  One of my more successful lawyer clients has now limited his practice to employment law, particularly departing employee and non-compete matters, refers everything else out (and ends up getting incoming work from other lawyers because of that).

Once you get your firm focused on your strike zone, what Incredulity said about banks and accountants is good advice.   I'd add getting involved with the Association for Corporate Growth if you end up being focused on corporate and transaction work. 

[DalTxHornFan 3,097]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Good advice. I’d find a few areas in which you excel, and focus on those. I’d skip accountants and call on banks and private equity funds. Where do you practice?

PE is also a good thought.  Lots of PE guys troll in the ACG arena.

[TwiceHorn 31,435]

3 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

With respect, it sounds like your firm dabbles in lots of practice areas (too many, IMHO).  I'd want to pick some core practice specialties and refer other matters to firms that specialize in that kind of work.  One of my more successful lawyer clients has now limited his practice to employment law, particularly departing employee and non-compete matters, refers everything else out (and ends up getting incoming work from other lawyers because of that).

Once you get your firm focused on your strike zone, what Incredulity said about banks and accountants is good advice.   I'd add getting involved with the Association for Corporate Growth if you end up being focused on corporate and transaction work. 

I think that's good advice.  I thought I was bored with IP and went with a small general firm, still doing IP, but all kinds of other chit too.  It was kind of fun, but exact same problems as you describe.  You need a hook.  Plus, everything gets more predictable, including clients, billing, and payment.

And, I have never heard any better general advice than to fire your C clients.  Then fire your B clients.

When you get good results, at reasonable rates that clients can afford and actually pay for, that's its own best advertisement.  Fucking around with people who can't afford it, who probably also lie to you, and having every engagement end in some type of billing dispute not only kills your soul, but it's bad for business in so many ways, it's hard to list them all.

Edited August 26, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[DalTxHornFan 3,097]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, I have never heard any better general advice than to fire your C clients.  Then fire your B clients.

Amen and amen!

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

15 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

With respect, it sounds like your firm dabbles in lots of practice areas (too many, IMHO).  I'd want to pick some core practice specialties and refer other matters to firms that specialize in that kind of work.  One of my more successful lawyer clients has now limited his practice to employment law, particularly departing employee and non-compete matters, refers everything else out (and ends up getting incoming work from other lawyers because of that).

Once you get your firm focused on your strike zone, what Incredulity said about banks and accountants is good advice.   I'd add getting involved with the Association for Corporate Growth if you end up being focused on corporate and transaction work. 

Yeah, this has been a problem for us for a long time.  Lack of a clear identity makes marketing tough.  We do have core areas - commercial litigation, corporate, IP and family law. Those core areas themselves are all over the place. The roster of lawyers we have, which I mostly inherited when I took over as managing partner, has dictated the firm's practice areas.  If I could start from scratch, I would be a boutique that just did one thing and I know what that one thing would be.  The problem is that I/we have never had enough work in our core practice areas to leave all of the ancillary work behind.  Have a business owner client who wants to do a name change for their kid?  Sure, I'll do that - I need the billable work.  That has led to forays into all kinds of weird shit, which is stressful in an of itself, because you have to get into an area you don't know, with itinerant risks, and you have to reinvent the wheel every time with forms, etc.

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think that's good advice.  I thought I was bored with IP and went with a small general firm, still doing IP, but all kinds of other chit too.  It was kind of fun, but exact same problems as you describe.  You need a hook.  Plus, everything gets more predictable, including clients, billing, and payment.

And, I have never heard any better general advice than to fire your C clients.  Then fire your B clients.

When you get good results, at reasonable rates that clients can afford and actually pay for, that's its own best advertisement.  Fucking around with people who can't afford it, who probably also lie to you, and having every engagement end in some type of billing dispute not only kills your soul, but it's bad for business in so many ways, it's hard to list them all.

Ain't that the goddamned truth.  If I could fire my C clients I think I'd be the happiest person alive.

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

12 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Good advice. I’d find a few areas in which you excel, and focus on those. I’d skip accountants and call on banks and private equity funds. Where do you practice?

Houston

[crash_davis 23,096]

Boobs, copious amounts of boobs.

[South Austin 52,432]

[Sbbruin 21,827]

Just make sure to proofread any ad you want to place to avoid costly mistakes.

[TwiceHorn 31,435]

2 hours ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Ain't that the goddamned truth.  If I could fire my C clients I think I'd be the happiest person alive.

Shedding side areas, associated attorneys, and clients, can be a fearful thing, but it may be necessary.  And in the longer term, should pay dividends.

An example.  Not sure what kind of IP you're talking about (hardcore--patents or soft--trademark), but patent just doesn't really work in general practice firms unless you've got big ticket litigation (most biglaw firms) or a tech startup corporate practice (Wilson Sonsini).  It SEEMS like a useful adjunct to a general business practice (and someone who isn't full time soft-IP can be), but historically, it just doesn't work.  Either the patent lawyers load up with work and then the differences in billing structures become acute, or they're kind of hurting for work, or good work, and doing other stuff.

The fact of the matter seems to be that organizations have trusted patent counsel and trusted business counsel -- in different firms.  And that's probably true of other seemingly related areas.

You might do well to a) consolidate around a core practice or two and b) encourage the other practice groups to do the same and become a "referral network."

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

You do oil and gas work and if so, is it tied to title work?

No.  Drafting leases and related documents between mineral owners and oil companies.

[Handcruser 2,805]

Lots of good advice in here, but I’d start another thread titled “illegal marketing that works” just to cover all your bases.

[Handcruser 2,805]

Also:
You dont have a marketing problem. You have a leadership problem.

[Neonmoon 38,129]

9 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Also:
You dont have a marketing problem. You have a leadership problem.

[Dbeasy 15,040]

I do strategy consulting for companies that are struggling. Here is roughly what someone like me would do for your business. You can do this yourself.

1. Take inventory of all your past cases, and categorize them, including revenue generated.

2. Take inventory of the skills and capabilities of your best lawyers, and categorize them, including their desires.
  
4. Identify the best focused area that aligns with both your firms capabilities, successes, and is a growing attractive market segment. 

5. Build a plan to beat your competition in that segment.  That plan should be all encompassing - product, service, marketing, etc  

6. Execute that plan. 
 

I usually can get the process done in 1-5 calendar months, working part-time on it, depending upon the company and situation.

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

14 hours ago, Handcruser said:

Also:
You dont have a marketing problem. You have a leadership problem.

I've considered it and consulted with people inside and outside of my firm and I don't think that's it.  I've led this firm through some serious adversity since being thrust into this role, which at the time involved putting out a flaming pile of dogshit.  Shortly after I got us through crisis mode, one of our major rainmaking partners died in a tragic accident, so not only did I have to recover the business from that blow, I also tried to take care of his family as much as I could. It's been a very tough road, but we're still here.

[TwiceHorn 31,435]

2 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I've considered it and consulted with people inside and outside of my firm and I don't think that's it.  I've led this firm through some serious adversity since being thrust into this role, which at the time involved putting out a flaming pile of dogshit.  Shortly after I got us through crisis mode, one of our major rainmaking partners died in a tragic accident, so not only did I have to recover the business from that blow, I also tried to take care of his family as much as I could. It's been a very tough road, but we're still here.

I think he was taking the piss, as they say.

However, I am thinking seriously that you need to reevaluate attempting to be a "general practice" firm.  That works in smaller markets, and in some cases for primarily consumer-oriented lawyers (wills, family, criminal, stuff like that).  In my 30th year of practicing law, I don't think it works for business-oriented firms.  Focus is the name of the game, if not outright specialization.

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

I think he was taking the piss, as they say.

However, I am thinking seriously that you need to reevaluate attempting to be a "general practice" firm.  That works in smaller markets, and in some cases for primarily consumer-oriented lawyers (wills, family, criminal, stuff like that).  In my 30th year of practicing law, I don't think it works for business-oriented firms.  Focus is the name of the game, if not outright specialization.

Oh, I know. I probably shouldn't have responded.

You are exactly right about the marketing direction. That's what all of the marketing consultants I've dealt with have told me. That's the conventional wisdom of the legal marketing gurus in print. That's what friends and peers have told me. I haven't taken that step because when you aren't getting enough quality work, it's counterintuitive to cast a narrower net.  Also, I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the identity of our firm given the specialties of the individual lawyers in it. It's not a natural fit of practice areas, I'm afraid.  That may not matter, though it would be easier to market a firm with a single specialized practice area than marketing a small group of individual lawyers, each with their own specialties.

[Dbeasy 15,040]

10 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Oh, I know. I probably shouldn't have responded.

You are exactly right about the marketing direction. That's what all of the marketing consultants I've dealt with have told me. That's the conventional wisdom of the legal marketing gurus in print. That's what friends and peers have told me. I haven't taken that step because when you aren't getting enough quality work, it's counterintuitive to cast a narrower net.  Also, I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the identity of our firm given the specialties of the individual lawyers in it. It's not a natural fit of practice areas, I'm afraid.  That may not matter, though it would be easier to market a firm with a single specialized practice area than marketing a small group of individual lawyers, each with their own specialties.

If it makes you feel any better every company in every industry faces the same dilemma of cutting loose business in favor of focus. Do it wrong and it will kill the company. Execute it correctly and you will be amazed at the increases in efficiency and growth. Market analysts don’t know how to do that transition.

[Handcruser 2,805]

I've considered it and consulted with people inside and outside of my firm and I don't think that's it.  I've led this firm through some serious adversity since being thrust into this role, which at the time involved putting out a flaming pile of dogshit.  Shortly after I got us through crisis mode, one of our major rainmaking partners died in a tragic accident, so not only did I have to recover the business from that blow, I also tried to take care of his family as much as I could. It's been a very tough road, but we're still here.

It wasn’t meant to disparage your efforts and abilities. You’ve obviously (through your words) navigated and led your firm through a crisis or two. Feather in your cap and all of that.

But it is a leadership problem. I’m not implying you’re a bad leader - just that as the leader, this is your problem to solve. Sounds like you understand there is a problem (step 1) and you’re trying to formulate a navigable path to solve it (step 2).

Sorry if it came across the wrong way.

[Chewbacca 7,766]

On 8/23/2021 at 5:11 PM, Neonmoon said:

 

It works so well that others have copied it!

 

https://cdllife.com/2021/texas-hammer-truck-wreck-lawyer-sues-alabama-hammer-for-stealing-his-shtick/

[TwiceHorn 31,435]

2 hours ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Oh, I know. I probably shouldn't have responded.

You are exactly right about the marketing direction. That's what all of the marketing consultants I've dealt with have told me. That's the conventional wisdom of the legal marketing gurus in print. That's what friends and peers have told me. I haven't taken that step because when you aren't getting enough quality work, it's counterintuitive to cast a narrower net.  Also, I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the identity of our firm given the specialties of the individual lawyers in it. It's not a natural fit of practice areas, I'm afraid.  That may not matter, though it would be easier to market a firm with a single specialized practice area than marketing a small group of individual lawyers, each with their own specialties.

Here's an idea, perhaps.

Perhaps divide into practice groups that share office space, but only share profits among themselves, to include marketing themselves.  You preserve whatever referral and "synergy" effects you have as a unitary firm, but you don't have to ride herd over a disparate group.

Glast, Phillips & Murray in Dallas have done something like that for a number of years.  The lawyers basically pay rent and some overhead and that's it.  But they're banded together in their little practice groups and the groups often work together when that makes sense, but beyond that, they're pretty much on their own.

[DalTxHornFan 3,097]

2 hours ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Oh, I know. I probably shouldn't have responded.

You are exactly right about the marketing direction. That's what all of the marketing consultants I've dealt with have told me. That's the conventional wisdom of the legal marketing gurus in print. That's what friends and peers have told me. I haven't taken that step because when you aren't getting enough quality work, it's counterintuitive to cast a narrower net.  Also, I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the identity of our firm given the specialties of the individual lawyers in it. It's not a natural fit of practice areas, I'm afraid.  That may not matter, though it would be easier to market a firm with a single specialized practice area than marketing a small group of individual lawyers, each with their own specialties.

And there is no reason that your "go to market with image" can't be very different than the total universe of the matters that your firm actually ends up performing.  Whole Foods sells disposable diapers, too.  But I don't recall seeing them advertise that fact much.

Elevator pitch, and all.  Good luck.

[troph 24,781]

the only thing that has ever worked for me is networking.  I need to take care of good clients, they will refer.  I need 4-5 lawyers that refer work to me - and here is the key, I'm not full service so I'm not a competitor to a litigation shop so we refer back and forth to each other, sometimes even co-counsel cases.  identify who is sending you referrals, if you like the quality of their referrals cultivate that relationship.  for new ones, figure out what firms you can be a solution for - for me, I try to be a solution to a lawyer's problem of not knowing who to send work to.  Also, don't be afraid to shrink.  At my largest, I had 4 people working for me on a large book of business.  I've decided I want to transition out of law before I'm 55 (10 years away) and so my first step was to shrink my practice and drop the dead weight, now I'm a solo again and no overhead.  My revenue has shrunk by over 50% and my pay is almost the same.  overhead is a bitch.  but anyway, networking, figuring out how you position as a solution to a problem for other lawyers is critical.  maybe it's larger firms that send work to you, find good firms and people you know and cultivate those relationships.  and tell them what you want!  Then take care of those lawyers who send you matters.  volunteer work can help but that is a very, very long cycle and one that has not worked for me.  I've gotten nearly no work from my volunteer work and I've been on half a dozen boards over the last 10 years.

[RPM 26,315]

 

[RollLeft 5,040]

Why don't you just white knight a client by threatening legal action against an online community full of a bunch witty assholes.  That should put you on the map.

[Ojo Rojo 1,946]

15 hours ago, troph said:

the only thing that has ever worked for me is networking.  I need to take care of good clients, they will refer.  I need 4-5 lawyers that refer work to me - and here is the key, I'm not full service so I'm not a competitor to a litigation shop so we refer back and forth to each other, sometimes even co-counsel cases.  identify who is sending you referrals, if you like the quality of their referrals cultivate that relationship.  for new ones, figure out what firms you can be a solution for - for me, I try to be a solution to a lawyer's problem of not knowing who to send work to.  Also, don't be afraid to shrink.  At my largest, I had 4 people working for me on a large book of business.  I've decided I want to transition out of law before I'm 55 (10 years away) and so my first step was to shrink my practice and drop the dead weight, now I'm a solo again and no overhead.  My revenue has shrunk by over 50% and my pay is almost the same.  overhead is a bitch.  but anyway, networking, figuring out how you position as a solution to a problem for other lawyers is critical.  maybe it's larger firms that send work to you, find good firms and people you know and cultivate those relationships.  and tell them what you want!  Then take care of those lawyers who send you matters.  volunteer work can help but that is a very, very long cycle and one that has not worked for me.  I've gotten nearly no work from my volunteer work and I've been on half a dozen boards over the last 10 years.

This is what I have pretty much experienced myself. I just haven't done enough of it and not with the right focus. I once interviewed at another firm years ago.  One of the partners I was interviewing with had a very large book and good clients so I asked him, "What do you do?"  He laughed and said, "Hang out at bars, mostly."  I think I could do that.

[hornian 5,210]

On 8/31/2021 at 6:27 PM, troph said:

the only thing that has ever worked for me is networking.  I need to take care of good clients, they will refer.  I need 4-5 lawyers that refer work to me - and here is the key, I'm not full service so I'm not a competitor to a litigation shop so we refer back and forth to each other, sometimes even co-counsel cases.  identify who is sending you referrals, if you like the quality of their referrals cultivate that relationship.  for new ones, figure out what firms you can be a solution for - for me, I try to be a solution to a lawyer's problem of not knowing who to send work to.  Also, don't be afraid to shrink.  At my largest, I had 4 people working for me on a large book of business.  I've decided I want to transition out of law before I'm 55 (10 years away) and so my first step was to shrink my practice and drop the dead weight, now I'm a solo again and no overhead.  My revenue has shrunk by over 50% and my pay is almost the same.  overhead is a bitch.  but anyway, networking, figuring out how you position as a solution to a problem for other lawyers is critical.  maybe it's larger firms that send work to you, find good firms and people you know and cultivate those relationships.  and tell them what you want!  Then take care of those lawyers who send you matters.  volunteer work can help but that is a very, very long cycle and one that has not worked for me.  I've gotten nearly no work from my volunteer work and I've been on half a dozen boards over the last 10 years.

Good advice; but you’re telling me I have to find another business lawyer to refer to in less than 10 years? Girl!

(I originally typed “furk” but it autocorrected to girl, which works even better.)

[troph 24,781]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:28 AM, Ojo Rojo said:

This is what I have pretty much experienced myself. I just haven't done enough of it and not with the right focus. I once interviewed at another firm years ago.  One of the partners I was interviewing with had a very large book and good clients so I asked him, "What do you do?"  He laughed and said, "Hang out at bars, mostly."  I think I could do that.

Yeah that’s the whole golf and what not thing. Tailigating (sticking with today’s theme), happy hours whatever it is, turn strictly business relationships into business friendships and rinse and repeat. People think I’m an extrovert but I’m not, I’ve just learned that success marketing as a lawyer is 100% about relationship building. I’ve actually discovered that’s really the key to all marketing but it shows up in different ways. Then back to good work, solve the problem, do excellent work and keep at it. The cycle is probably a 3 year process starting from zero. But results can appear as early as 3-6 months imo.  When I started my own practice I spent 100% of my business hours time marketing and did the work at night and on weekends. I market less now but if I had to I’d just think about it like I was in college, what fun things do I want to do and who do I want to do them with.  And go from there. It’s not magic but it works.  Especially among the males of our species - very simple creatures and that’s a positive thing. Enjoy a positive experience, a laugh or two and then you’ve got what you need. If they turn out not to refer from that then move on. Keep the friendship but look for another match. It’s like dating, numbers game. 

[troph 24,781]

16 minutes ago, hornian said:

Good advice; but you’re telling me I have to find another business lawyer to refer to in less than 10 years? Girl!

(I originally typed “furk” but it autocorrected to girl, which works even better.)

Less than 3 if I have my way, but I won’t quit 100% but yeah I’m already halfway out. I got me a sugar momma and she lets me play with her money (kinda kidding - we both have had very lucrative few years and want to be investors mostly). Launching a self funded new company in 2 weeks !!  Speaking of networking my top referrer accidentally referred me an amazing contingency case that I then called him back and said dude you missed this and we ran it together. Friends for life and more good work will come from it. Still haven’t spent a dime on social media BS for lawyers. 

ps - gave your name to our financial advisor (more specifically your OG partner) she said she needed more family planning and divorce attoneys. Told us specifically we needed a cohabitation agreement… she’s might be a good referral for y’all over time.

Edited September 4, 2021 by troph