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Mafia buff thread

billfromlaketravis

By billfromlaketravis
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CHIEF

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5 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

My family played a huge part in the boot legging action in Texas. We have a big ass cellar/bunker on property around the dfw area where we kept the stills. Ill take pics next time I visit.

Mine too. Hill Wheatley made the best moonshine in the Bosque, Hill, Hood, and Somervell county area. I never could figure out why my Grandfather's younger brother didn't like his older sister's husband. Before my grandfather died, he told me it was because my Uncle Frank had stiffed his little brother when he smuggled 300 quarts of moonshine out to Sweetwater. Apparently it was pretty dangerous. I asked my grandfather why they didn't just build a still out in Sweetwater. He looked at me like I was an idiot and said "how hard do you think it would be to hide a still in Sweetwater. You can stand on a tuna can and see everything going on in three counties."

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Zepol87

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6 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

My family played a huge part in the boot legging action in Texas. We have a big ass cellar/bunker on property around the dfw area where we kept the stills. Ill take pics next time I visit.

and invite me when you go. That sounds pretty fucking cool

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Celery Man

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41 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I went to a Speakeasy in a strip mall in Frisco last night, so this thread hits close to home and I resemble all the mafia leaders a little bit, I think.

image.jpeg.bcc9edd0284273beb8c288a6713569c9.jpeg
 

or

image.jpeg.6e573e71a1604d4cffee9f4da95d6e08.jpeg

Massino sucks obviously. Carlo Gambino is obviously the most badass mobster ever but Chin Gigante has such a great story. From trying to kill Frank Costello to the whole insanity ruse.

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11835

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Carlo Gambino didn’t make John Gotti. It would have almost certainly would have happened, but Carlo died in 1976 before the books were opened up in 1977. Big Paul ironically made Gotti. 
 

That my friends, is a spotless resume for Carlo. 
 

Chin kept civilians around him. Huge mistake that lead to imprisonment. 
 

Massino. What a POS. He was terrified of getting the death sentence in the second most liberal state in the Union. Very high probability he would never have been executed. He was convicted in 2004. New York State outlawed the death penalty in 2007. Not even Texas can turn around executions in 3 years. 

Edited by billfromlaketravis
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DallasGatr

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Had an uncle that was a lawyer for the Gambino family in South Florida for years. Kind of took everything he said with a grain………Then the Miami riots happened and Aunty is screaming that all four corners of the property are covered with machine gun wielding tough guys. Add that to the fact that he was arrested three times (never convicted) for various mob related activities.

Loved his life, he was a great guy. Always said that the people he worked for never pushed the drugs. (Think pre-Gotti) He was good people.

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FartingMonk

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3 hours ago, DallasGatr said:

Had an uncle that was a lawyer for the Gambino family in South Florida for years. Kind of took everything he said with a grain………Then the Miami riots happened and Aunty is screaming that all four corners of the property are covered with machine gun wielding tough guys. Add that to the fact that he was arrested three times (never convicted) for various mob related activities.

Loved his life, he was a great guy. Always said that the people he worked for never pushed the drugs. (Think pre-Gotti) He was good people.

So is it really true the mob never sold drugs or is it based off of Godfather folk lore because a lot of other sources that would say otherwise. 

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MaybeACoordinator

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1 hour ago, FartingMonk said:

So is it really true the mob never sold drugs or is it based off of Godfather folk lore because a lot of other sources that would say otherwise. 

It is absolutely not true they as a whole never sold drugs. iIRC correctly Gotti and his buddies took out Paul Castellano because he was against selling drugs. Though some would have you think otherwise, this was rarely out of any principle but because they were just too risky. When a guy got caught oftentimes he'd be facing decades in prison and therefore more likely to rat out others. And it worked out that way very often and continues to do so today.

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MaybeACoordinator

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Somebody way upthread mentioned a Greek Mafia in Houston....there are some people who claim a shadowy Greek cabal pulls all the strings in Houston. It can reach Illuminati levels in some people. I will say this: they are very influential in the restaurant business, and when a restaurant like the Cleburne burns down like clockwork every five years, and is rebuilt bigger than before each time, and there is never, ever an arson investigation, that's because they've convinced everyone relevant of the existence of a terrible act of God known as Greek lightning.

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Celery Man

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I would love to hear about the Pappas being mobbed up or some shit.

 My assumption is “kinda” but I also assume “not really”. Too good at running restaurants.

Donnie Brasco was really enjoyable - any other books like that? Also painted the mobsters in a light that seems more true to life. Provincial, stupid, but cunning and ruthless.

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11835

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8 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

OG is a good podcast, but every other word is "but Detroit." Guy has a serious chip on his shoulder.

Yep. That would be my primary criticism of Bernstein. Don’t get him started on the Hoffa hit. He’s convinced it was a Detroit operation from cradle to grave, and the they filled the Genovese Family in later. 
 

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MaybeACoordinator

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56 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I would love to hear about the Pappas being mobbed up or some shit.

 My assumption is “kinda” but I also assume “not really”. Too good at running restaurants.

Being good at corruption can equal being good at restaurants....One of my aunts married a bigtime restaurant wholesaler. Lebanese dude, Maronite -- that whole tribe has had to mob up since the 1000 AD or some shit. Anyway I used to make some of his deliveries and you would be astonished at the level of filth in some of the best kitchens in town. You get to a level where you are an Alabama of the restaurant world and I am sure some arrangements are made with the health inspectors, who will come in your place and enjoy lunch on the house and then go and destroy some poor hapless taqueria for leaving out a tray of chips or something....It's not that you are more liable to get sick from those dirty kitchens -- those kitchen managers know what they can get away with without giving anyone food poisoning and ruining their rep. The fact is a lot of those regulations are bullshit.

I am pretty sure that is one corner the Pappas behemoth has learned to cut. As I understand it, they do not hire illegals because they can't. Haters turned them in and someone had the clout to actually get them raided. They got a slap on the wrist and went right back to it and got caught again, and they have been laying low ever since. So I guess that would argue against them being mobbed up. 

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FartingMonk

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15 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

It is absolutely not true they as a whole never sold drugs. iIRC correctly Gotti and his buddies took out Paul Castellano because he was against selling drugs. Though some would have you think otherwise, this was rarely out of any principle but because they were just too risky. When a guy got caught oftentimes he'd be facing decades in prison and therefore more likely to rat out others. And it worked out that way very often and continues to do so today.

But what about the French connection?  That thing ran from the 1930s until the 1970s.  And there are some huge names involved.  Like guys from the top of the commission.  I know a lot of people excuse it to where Capos would do it and they would just say as long as they got their cut a blind eye was had.

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MaybeACoordinator

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1 hour ago, FartingMonk said:

But what about the French connection?  That thing ran from the 1930s until the 1970s.  And there are some huge names involved.  Like guys from the top of the commission.  I know a lot of people excuse it to where Capos would do it and they would just say as long as they got their cut a blind eye was had.

Sounds about right, but remember in Goodfellas Big Paulie didn't want any part of it.

Sam Maceo was caught up in a nationwide conspiracy in the 1930s and the trials dragged on and on and were dropped circa 1944. Some believe the Pentagon got the feds to drop charges against certain mobsters -- notably Lucky Luciano -- for their assistance in the invasion of and management of Sicily during the war. I've also seen claims that's complete bullshit so IDK.

Incidentally, Sam Maceo and two other top bosses from across the county all died of "natural causes" in the weeks leading up to the first hearings of the Kefauver Commission, the first real federal crackdown on the mob. Or the first to be publicized...anyway, some believe those deaths were no coincidence. Maceo had cancer so it seems unlikely in his case unless he was talking about getting right with God or something -- then they might have hastened him along. 

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MaybeACoordinator

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Went looking for my Italian mob shows and ended up on this:

 

So far, pretty good. Montreal mob show, based on real shit. I've always thought the Gulf Coast mafia was underrated -- lots of people know about Marcello, and how the mob was invented in America in New Orleans, but not as many about Tampa and Galveston. Montreal....shit. You think of it as this city full of French pussies. First, the French aren't pussies, least of all French-Canadian outlaw bikers, and here you add the Italians, the Irish and the Haitians to the mix. 

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MaybeACoordinator

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Binged Season One of that Canadian mob show and can recommend. Not Sopranos level, but what is. Main character is Tig from Sons of Anarchy. Paul Sorvino is in it. It's modeled on Goodfellas in that it seems to be based on a book by the Tig character who does a bunch of voice overs. A bunch of flashbacks too. Eh I'd give a solid B and I grade harshly on mob shows. 

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El Diablo

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On 8/26/2021 at 6:47 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

@Harrison Bergeron and @lateshow get in here. I also expect Lobo to make an appearance to tell us all mobsters are regards. 

I'd recommend this podcast from Scott Bernstein. Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/original-gangsters-a-true-crime-talk-podcast/id1467014230

The episode from August 19, 2021 "Today's American Mafia Families" is fascinating. Bernstein and his co-host go around the country to discuss each city with mafia activity. He categorized each city into 4 categories : Thriving, active, on life support and defunct. Some highlights : 

- Buffalo : Thriving. This one was the most interesting city to me. Joseph Todaro is the reputed boss with his nephews running his operations on the street. Todaro is restaurateur, and chicken wing magnate. He's made millions legitimately, but the Buffalo FBI is convinced he's in the life and is working hard to put a case on him and his nephews. Todaro has appeared on popular Barstool Pizza Review channel on YouTube. Pretty funny watch if you have 10 minutes. 

- New York. Of course thriving, but the Gambinos and Genovese are the dominant families. Bernstein thinks the Lucchese, Colombos, and Bonanos are on life support. 

- Philly: Active to thriving. Skinny Joey Merlino is the boss. Despite living in Florida, Bernstein is convinced Merlino is still running things through emissaries. 

- Tampa/Miami: Open state, lots of mafia activity but the Trafficante Family is defunct. 

- New Orleans: Open city, but the Marcello Family is defunct. Bernstein believes the Gambinos are active there, kind of interesting. 

- Cleveland : Life support to active. This one surprised me. I thought the Cleveland Mafia died after the war with Danny Greene in 1977, but Bernstein believes some of the old Mayfield Road Crew still runs some gambling operations in Cleveland.

- Chicago: Quietly thriving. Bernstein says there's a group of guys in their 50s that run street operations while the much older are schooling them. He said the Outfit is much larger than most people think. Many members are currently unknown and not on law enforcement's radar. He said it's similar to Detroit in that many mobsters moved out to the suburbs during White Flight. 

Detroit: Thriving to active. Bernstein is from/based in Detroit, and I'd say he's an expert. He says it's an older family that probably has a shelf life of another 15-20 years, but their numbers won't be replenished by a large Italian American community. Very influential in legitimate businesses. Very difficult to prosecute because it consists of a very close circle of Italian families. No outsiders and they know how to stay out of the papers. 

- Los Angeles: Open city. The Dragna Family is very defunct. Bernstein thinks there's a lot of New York guys in LA doing their own thing. 

- St. Louis: Defunct. 

- Kansas City: Life support. 

- Milwaukee : Defunct. Bernstein believes the Outfit runs street operations. 

- Boston/Providence : Active. Bernstein believes the Providence faction of the Patriarca Family is on life support. Boston runs things now. 

- Springfield, Massachusetts: Active. Genovese faction, but operate with some autonomy. 

 

No mention of Las Vegas? 

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DonkeyCigars

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18 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Somebody way upthread mentioned a Greek Mafia in Houston....there are some people who claim a shadowy Greek cabal pulls all the strings in Houston. It can reach Illuminati levels in some people. I will say this: they are very influential in the restaurant business, and when a restaurant like the Cleburne burns down like clockwork every five years, and is rebuilt bigger than before each time, and there is never, ever an arson investigation, that's because they've convinced everyone relevant of the existence of a terrible act of God known as Greek lightning.

I believe the preferred nomenclature has always been “Jewish Lightning”. 

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Onboard 2.0

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14 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I would love to hear about the Pappas being mobbed up or some shit.

 My assumption is “kinda” but I also assume “not really”. Too good at running restaurants.

Donnie Brasco was really enjoyable - any other books like that? Also painted the mobsters in a light that seems more true to life. Provincial, stupid, but cunning and ruthless.

Havana Nocturne. The NY mob, and Cuba pre 1960 .  Great read about the mafia setting up the lavish casinos in Cuba, and it's confluence with the revolution, and Fidel.

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Gil Bang

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Apologize for the slight diversion:

I've long been interested in another type of "mob", the outlaw biker gangs.  Hell's Angels, Mongols, etc.


Several great books in that genre, including "Under and Alone".  

It's slightly-less-organized crime, mostly because many  of the criminals are dopers.  I don't think that the italians tolerate that much. 

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billfromlaketravis

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20 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Went looking for my Italian mob shows and ended up on this:

 

So far, pretty good. Montreal mob show, based on real shit. I've always thought the Gulf Coast mafia was underrated -- lots of people know about Marcello, and how the mob was invented in America in New Orleans, but not as many about Tampa and Galveston. Montreal....shit. You think of it as this city full of French pussies. First, the French aren't pussies, least of all French-Canadian outlaw bikers, and here you add the Italians, the Irish and the Haitians to the mix. 

I liked Bad Blood Season 1. I need to give Season 2 a try. 

Vito Rizzuto got a pretty real deal from the US government. They put him in Florence Supermax despite having health problems, and the fact that he was a Canadian citizen. He died about a year after he got out. 

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Harrison Bergeron

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7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Apologize for the slight diversion:

I've long been interested in another type of "mob", the outlaw biker gangs.  Hell's Angels, Mongols, etc.


Several great books in that genre, including "Under and Alone".  

It's slightly-less-organized crime, mostly because many  of the criminals are dopers.  I don't think that the italians tolerate that much. 

The OG podcast mentioned in the OP does a few episodes on the 1% gangs. I infered from a couple other episodes there might be selective cooperation.

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billfromlaketravis

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7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Apologize for the slight diversion:

I've long been interested in another type of "mob", the outlaw biker gangs.  Hell's Angels, Mongols, etc.


Several great books in that genre, including "Under and Alone".  

It's slightly-less-organized crime, mostly because many  of the criminals are dopers.  I don't think that the italians tolerate that much. 

I was kind of shocked by the OG podcasts on the Outlaws. One their VP's from Chicago claims they're not a criminal organization and won't go to war over turf or rockers. Kind of sounds like a drinking club that rides bikes and get into bar fights with a couple life long criminals mixed in. 

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Dennis Taylor

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7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Apologize for the slight diversion:

I've long been interested in another type of "mob", the outlaw biker gangs.  Hell's Angels, Mongols, etc.


Several great books in that genre, including "Under and Alone".  

It's slightly-less-organized crime, mostly because many  of the criminals are dopers.  I don't think that the italians tolerate that much. 

Under and Alone is good, a movie was supposed to be made but it hasn't panned out.

No Angel by Jay Dobbyns is good too

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8350

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1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I liked Bad Blood Season 1. I need to give Season 2 a try. 

Vito Rizzuto got a pretty real deal from the US government. They put him in Florence Supermax despite having health problems, and the fact that he was a Canadian citizen. He died about a year after he got out. 

Season 2 is not shaping up so well. They kill of basically everybody except Declan in a Godfather II-like montage in the first scene of the season, and then introduced new characters. It reminds me of Sons of Anarchy (not just because of Tig / Declan) but because they go way out of their way to "ethnicize" everything. Now they are bringing in the Canadian First Nations, as they are called up there. Looks like the big bads are this brother and sister from the N'drangheta in Naples (the chick is fucking impossibly, unbearably, hot; so hot she's hard to look at somehow) and the Mexican cartels. The actor they chose to play the cartel boss is a fat curly haired Samoan-looking dude who looks like he might have a big brother who plays for USC. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8350

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us

8 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Apologize for the slight diversion:

I've long been interested in another type of "mob", the outlaw biker gangs.  Hell's Angels, Mongols, etc.


Several great books in that genre, including "Under and Alone".  

It's slightly-less-organized crime, mostly because many  of the criminals are dopers.  I don't think that the italians tolerate that much. 

Great true story from a few years ago -- this dude in Austin took it upon himself to start a Hell's Angels chapter in Austin, which as you probably know, the Bandidos did not look on with appreciation. Nor did the Hell's Angels. They didn't claim him and told him he was on his own. So he continued to strut around Austin with a Hell's Angels vest until one day his head exploded in a restaurant parking lot.

(I didn't know they tried to start an aggy chapter too, lol)

 

 

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MaybeACoordinator

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If you click through the slideshow, Pike, the Bandido Prez, was married not to some skanky biker bitch, but a CPA for a large energy firm, and their two kids are UT grads. 

My aunt is a semi-retired CPA for Transco / Williams and she told us about 25 years ago, they were astonished to learn one their workmates was also married to a Bandido officer of some kind. They didn't know until the obit came out. 

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billfromlaketravis

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33 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Season 2 is not shaping up so well. They kill of basically everybody except Declan in a Godfather II-like montage in the first scene of the season, and then introduced new characters. It reminds me of Sons of Anarchy (not just because of Tig / Declan) but because they go way out of their way to "ethnicize" everything. Now they are bringing in the Canadian First Nations, as they are called up there. Looks like the big bads are this brother and sister from the N'drangheta in Naples (the chick is fucking impossibly, unbearably, hot; so hot she's hard to look at somehow) and the Mexican cartels. The actor they chose to play the cartel boss is a fat curly haired Samoan-looking dude who looks like he might have a big brother who plays for USC. 

Not sure why they veered there. There's a ton of source material out there like, I dunno, an ongoing, 16 year mafia war in Montreal. 

https://gangsterreport.com/mob-murder-helter-skelter-across-the-border-the-great-canadian-mafia-war-hit-list/

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Gil Bang

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2 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Under and Alone is good, a movie was supposed to be made but it hasn't panned out.

No Angel by Jay Dobbyns is good too

IIRC, Under and Alone was "optioned" by Mel Gibson, right about the time he went crazy.  It's a shame, because he would have been perfect for the lead. 

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MaybeACoordinator

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7 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Not sure why they veered there. There's a ton of source material out there like, I dunno, an ongoing, 16 year mafia war in Montreal. 

https://gangsterreport.com/mob-murder-helter-skelter-across-the-border-the-great-canadian-mafia-war-hit-list/

Yeah they cherry picked only a few of those for the show...I guess Declan is based on the Desjardins guy.

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billfromlaketravis

billfromlaketravis 11835

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Interesting. I’m listening to the June 28th episode of the OG podcast, and Burnstein says the Philly Family is under the most FBI scrutiny. Says anybody associated with Merlino is under constant surveillance. The Feds appear to have a Gotti like hatred of Merlino. 
 

He also said New York mobsters are under very little surveillance. 

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