Evangelical Christians

[Anastasis 23402]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Don't blame the media.  Please, don't.  This not some organized conspiracy against christianity.

 

[Anastasis 23402]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Great that you don't care about Dan Patrick.  But, the citizens of this state, being governed by an angry, fucking mean, self-proclaimed christian who vows to inflict his brand of christianity on everyone in the state...well, they kinda DO care.  And the young and intelligent ones see that as the face of christianity and rightly say "why in the fuck would I want ANYTHING to do with that?"

I would hope that the "young and intelligent ones" have old and intelligent parents to provide them some guidance and perspective. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Anastasis

[Sawbonz 27445]

35 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And people wonder why martyrdom is so important to Islam.

For all of you who never took logic in college, this is a textbook example of false equivalence: two groups of religious people died, therefore they are similar in other ways

[Brisketexan 104705]

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I would hope that the "young and intelligent ones" have old and intelligent parents to provide them some guidance and perspective. 

Many don't.

Others have parents who practice a style of Christianity that is or is closely related to fundagelicalism.

My wife works with these folks every. single. day.  The young "nones and dones" are growing, and it's NOT because they're stupid.   It's because they're smart, and they're paying attention.   They're watching the aggies whoop and grab their balls and saw the horns off of a school they don't even play, and engage in continued groupthink even though they know it kills people, and eyes-wide, they're saying "holy fuck, that's fucking awful and I want no part of it."

[SideSlip 35]

3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

This is a religion thread dipshit

Calm down.  Bro.

[phdhorn 6224]

He needs Jesus, and like right now.

[Anastasis 23402]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 Many don't.

Others have parents who practice a style of Christianity that is or is closely related to fundagelicalism.

 My wife works with these folks every. single. day.  The young "nones and dones" are growing, and it's NOT because they're stupid.   It's because they're smart, and they're paying attention.   They're watching the aggies whoop and grab their balls and saw the horns off of a school they don't even play, and engage in continued groupthink even though they know it kills people, and eyes-wide, they're saying "holy fuck, that's fucking awful and I want no part of it."

Once again, some perspective is indicated. Christian history is not measured in years or even decades. We come and we go. I don't like a lot of the current nonsense. I also don't think that the current nonsense compels towards the end Christianity. Dan Patrick gonna Dan Patrick. Texas gonna Texas. America gonna America. And the Earth will still revolve on its axes. In the grand scheme of things, our current exposure doesn't event warrant. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Anastasis

[Brisketexan 104705]

Once again, some perspective is indicated. Christian history is not measured in years or even decades. We come and we go. I don't like a lot of the current nonsense. I also don't think that the current nonsense compels towards the end Christianity. Dan Patrick gonna Dan Patrick. Texas gonna Texas. America gonna America. And the Earth will still revolve on its axes. In the grand scheme of things, our current exposure doesn't event warrant. 

And I already said that. I said that the gospels, and thus the faith, will survive.

But it would be better if we didn’t shit ourselves. Just because it will eventually wash off, doesn’t make it good to be covered in shit for a time.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I've talked about my very liberal almost 16 year old daughter's politics before but I've never posted about her religious beliefs.

Up until a year or two ago she would tell you she didn't believe in God and was right proud to say so.  Then she started going to a youth group with a friend - at first just for the social aspects.  A lot of her friends went and she didn't want to be left out.

At some point, something changed for her.  She did not grow up going to church and we are not religious but through this youth group she found faith.

She is still a liberal politically and wants to be a surgeon, so no science rejector here.  But she has found a way to fit her faith in with her political and intellectual beliefs.  

Here are two pictures from her Instagram - not of her, you dogs! - when she did the March For Our Lives.  One shows her sign and the other is her post explaining the bible verse that inspired her to march.

IF you can get some of the socially aware, smart kids to the RIGHT church that preaches the RIGHT message you will find a lot of them won't reject religion - they will embrace it.

But Brisket is right - most of what the younger generation has seen coming from the evangelicals is not appealing and drives them away.  It's a shame because they aren't the majority of christians but they are the loudest and the most visible and they are, unfortunately, the "face" of modern religion.

[F250 28706]

Interesting discussion. It's a similar discussion we started having at our church about 8 years ago. As previously mentioned in this thread, we Methodists get a number of people that stray into our doors, particularly Baptists.

One of the discussions back then was a lot of the younger people showing up were not interested in the culture wars and turned off by the marketing (pretend to be cool) of Evangelical churches. What was noticed was that many were drawn to the liturgy, sacraments and basic Christian orthodoxy. Many of the new younger people were attending "high church" services, no gimmicks just traditional services (basically Anglican).

Another thing was a lot of them were drawn to the idea of the social gospel. Things they can do to better the here and now. The young really respond to a message that emphasizes them to improve the world rather than plan for some eventual apocalyptic event.

 

[David Dennison 18664]

4 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

For all of you who never took logic in college, this is a textbook example of false equivalence: two groups of religious people died, therefore they are similar in other ways

Just one. They are martyrs.

[Sawbonz 27445]

Wrong, genius. One group kills themselves along with others; the other group was murdered for their beliefs 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Sawbonz

[F250 28706]

By the way, Rachel Evans has been writing about this topic for a number of years now. She is a former Evangelical who has found a home in the Episcopal church. I believe she is from Bama Chicks neck of the woods. I've heard her reference the Crimson Tide before but I don't hold it against her. Although I did go off on a mental "what if Colt didn't get hurt" tangent. The wounds were still fresh at the time.

 

https://rachelheldevans.com/blog/life-after-evangelicalism

[David Dennison 18664]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Wrong genius. One group kills themselves along with others; the other group Ian murdered for their beliefs 

Are you saying Muslims are not murdered for their beliefs?

Won't they be surprised.

[Sawbonz 27445]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Are you saying Muslims are not murdered for their beliefs?

Won't they be surprised.

Move those goalposts 

[David Dennison 18664]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

Move those goalposts 

No one is moving anything. You just stepped on your dick.

[Sawbonz 27445]

You are so full of shit. You were clearly trying to equate Christian martyrs with Muslims who commit murder in the name of Islam and die during the act. Otherwise, why would “martyrdom”, Christian, Islamic, or otherwise, be concerning?

[David Dennison 18664]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

You are so full of shit. You were clearly trying to equate Christian martyrs with Muslims who commit murder in the name of Islam and die during the act. Otherwise, why would “martyrdom”, Christian, Islamic, or otherwise, be concerning?

It explains why certain Muslims consider these people to be so important. 

[Sawbonz 27445]

Quote

Istishhad (Arabic: استشهاد‎) is the Arabic word for "martyrdom", "death of a martyr", or "heroic death".^[1] In recent years the term has been said to "emphasize... heroism in the act of sacrifice" rather than "victimization", and has "developed...into a military and political strategy", often called "martyrdom operations".^[2] One who martyrs themselves is given the honorific shahid.

They are important not for their deaths but for their waging of jihad. That is a fundamental difference between the two groups 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Sawbonz

[F250 28706]

9 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You are so full of shit. You were clearly trying to equate Christian martyrs with Muslims who commit murder in the name of Islam and die during the act. Otherwise, why would “martyrdom”, Christian, Islamic, or otherwise, be concerning?

 

[ndawg 1242]

Of the Muslims that die for their faith, what percentage are terrorists?

[Sawbonz 27445]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

 

Yeah you’re right

[David Dennison 18664]

1 minute ago, ndawg said:

Of the Muslims that die for their faith, what percentage are terrorists?

This is a very good question.

[Orca of Peace 109]

42 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This is a very good question.

a couple of presumptions   (1) they are dying for the faith alone or perhaps not (2) definition of terrorism is arbitrary. So this question does not have a definitive answer. 

[Rich Horns 2]

Lol you dumb shits actually believe this nonsense. It was all created by brilliant rich people like me to keep you rubes in line so we could pillage your wallets and women and have you afraid to do anything about it or else the invisible man in the clouds is going to punish you. What a bunch of morons. 

[Gatorubet 30137]

So - like - the second banning in Surly?

[ndawg 1242]

9 hours ago, Orca of Peace said:

a couple of presumptions   (1) they are dying for the faith alone or perhaps not (2) definition of terrorism is arbitrary. So this question does not have a definitive answer. 

And, it's not supposed to, really. The objective of the question is to challenge the evangelical perception of Muslims, particularly the belief that acts of terrorism comprise a significant majority of faith-motivated deaths among Muslims. Very few evangelicals I've met have the capacity to acknowledge what they have in common with many of other faiths. The world would be a whole lot safer if they did.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, F250 said:

Interesting discussion. It's a similar discussion we started having at our church about 8 years ago. As previously mentioned in this thread, we Methodists get a number of people that stray into our doors, particularly Baptists.

One of the discussions back then was a lot of the younger people showing up were not interested in the culture wars and turned off by the marketing (pretend to be cool) of Evangelical churches. What was noticed was that many were drawn to the liturgy, sacraments and basic Christian orthodoxy. Many of the new younger people were attending "high church" services, no gimmicks just traditional services (basically Anglican).

Another thing was a lot of them were drawn to the idea of the social gospel. Things they can do to better the here and now. The young really respond to a message that emphasizes them to improve the world rather than plan for some eventual apocalyptic event.

 

Can’t be true. I read 800 paragraphs from Brisket on how we‘re losing young people. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, David Dennison said:

No one is moving anything. You just stepped on your dick.

You totally moved the goalposts and are trying to shout it down insulting retorts. You’re a buffoon. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Rich Horns said:

Lol you dumb shits actually believe this nonsense. It was all created by brilliant rich people like me to keep you rubes in line so we could pillage your wallets and women and have you afraid to do anything about it or else the invisible man in the clouds is going to punish you. What a bunch of morons. 

I hear this nonsense a lot, and it’s totally illogical. Yeah, rich people started Christianity (laughable) to keep people in line. Just an asinine thought process. And you call us morons?  Lulz. 

[David Dennison 18664]

7 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I hear this nonsense a lot, and it’s totally illogical. Yeah, rich people started Christianity (laughable) to keep people in line. Just an asinine thought process. And you call us morons?  Lulz. 

You should read up on Constantine and the spread of Christianity throughout the Roman empire.

Edited May 21, 2018 by David Dennison

[Guest]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

You should read up on Constantine and the spread of Christianity throughout the Roman empire.

You should shove your mobile goalposts straight up your socialist ass. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

21 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

The truly sad thing is that the New Testament is almost entirely about matters that are aside and apart from scientific theory or discussion (yes, aside from the supernatural event of the resurrection).  Love God, love your neighbor as yourself; love and forgive your enemies, etc. etc. -- such principles are neither compatible nor incompatible with science -- they are aside and apart from it.

Yet....the battlegrounds of modern christianity are the pointless ones of either conflict with science (creationism.  Seriously, creationism), or of either supposedly great moral issues that  receive the barest of mention (if any) in the Gospels (seriously, giving a fuck about whether someone is gay or not is WAY down the list of subject matter in the Gospels -- being incensed about continuing poverty, now THAT'S a Gospel value....which modern fundagelicals actually couldn't give half a shit about, lip-service and half-assed missional work notwithstanding).

The naked truth of the Gospels is not only something that  we can hear and not  turn into a battleground, it's something that we all SHOULD care about and want to live.  But we're so busy focusing on arguing about the metaphorical shape of the table, and wood used to make it, and the seating arrangement, and who we get to exclude from the table....that we ignore the bounty sitting there right in front of us.

That battleground is largely brought to you by people on the left. My Baptist Church doesn’t discuss that bullshit. 

Yesterday the pastor my church discussed literal creationist beliefs. He brought up when he was younger some pastor said “you can’t be a Christian if you don’t believe the first 11 chapters of Genesis are historical facts.”  And his response was where was that said in the Gospel?

I don’t care about creationism.  I figure God did what he did. Doesn’t matter to me how. I’ve been to a lot of churches in my 41 years.  Texas Church of Christ and Baptist Churches. They don’t discuss creationism or gays.  

And I disagree that Christian evangelicals don’t care about poverty. No other group does as much to fill up food banks or help the poor.  

[David Dennison 18664]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

That battleground is largely brought to you by people on the left. My Baptist Church doesn’t discuss that bullshit. 

Yesterday the pastor my church discussed literal creationist beliefs. He brought up when he was younger some pastor said “you can’t be a Christian if you don’t believe the first 11 chapters of Genesis are historical facts.”  And his response was where was that said in the Gospel?

I don’t care about creationism.  I figure God did what he did. Doesn’t matter to me how. I’ve been to a lot of churches in my 41 years.  Texas Church of Christ and Baptist Churches. They don’t discuss creationism or gays.  

And I disagree that Christian evangelicals don’t care about poverty. No other group does as much to fill up food banks or help the poor.  

Unfortunately, food banks don't come anywhere close to meeting demand. The state has to do that because the market won't.

[David Dennison 18664]

14 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

You should shove your mobile goalposts straight up your socialist ass. 

WWJD?

[relapse98 634]

38 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

That battleground is largely brought to you by people on the left. My Baptist Church doesn’t discuss that bullshit. 

...

I’ve been to a lot of churches in my 41 years.  Texas Church of Christ and Baptist Churches. They don’t discuss creationism or gays. 

 

Not sure what baptist church you go to, but Ed Young at Second Baptist sure as shit discusses gays.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

54 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

That battleground is largely brought to you by people on the left. My Baptist Church doesn’t discuss that bullshit. 

Yesterday the pastor my church discussed literal creationist beliefs. He brought up when he was younger some pastor said “you can’t be a Christian if you don’t believe the first 11 chapters of Genesis are historical facts.”  And his response was where was that said in the Gospel?

I don’t care about creationism.  I figure God did what he did. Doesn’t matter to me how. I’ve been to a lot of churches in my 41 years.  Texas Church of Christ and Baptist Churches. They don’t discuss creationism or gays.  

And I disagree that Christian evangelicals don’t care about poverty. No other group does as much to fill up food banks or help the poor.  

My Baptist church did.  I was pretty devout as a kid.  Went to church 3x a week, including the youth choir,  through the 7th grade when I started to figure out some of that shit they were saying was about me.  And after figuring out it wasn't something I could fix about myself, I lost my devoutness. I still had to go every Sunday until I moved away from home due to religious parents, and by that point I was so disgusted by the type of Christianity I was exposed to that I never wanted to see the inside of a church again. 

To this day, I also know that if someone is anti-gay and pushing for legislation in the US to reinforce their worldview, they are either going to be a preacher or they are going to be working for those quasi-religious "pro-family" orgs that pander to Christians.  That is such an overwhelming negative that I have to work really hard to keep that from being the face of Christianity for me.  And oftentimes I don't work hard enough at it. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

WWJD?

Not move goalposts. And be indifferent as to whether he lived in a socialist state or not. I am not Jesus. I am not indifferent about that. 

[Rich Horns 2]

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

I hear this nonsense a lot, and it’s totally illogical. Yeah, rich people started Christianity (laughable) to keep people in line. Just an asinine thought process. And you call us morons?  Lulz. 

Yes, keep believing the bullshit. God bless people like you. People like my father get to repeatedly rape you and your entire family and you keep voting for the politicians we have in our pockets that keep letting it happen. This country is glorious. Stupid people who have no idea where the bullshit they believe in came from are certainly too stupid to check on what the politicians they vote in are doing to them. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Rich Horns said:

Yes, keep believing the bullshit. God bless people like you. People like my father get to repeatedly rape you and your entire family and you keep voting for the politicians we have in our pockets that keep letting it happen. This country is glorious. Stupid people who have no idea where the bullshit they believe in came from are certainly too stupid to check on what the politicians they vote in are doing to them. 

Ok

[Rich Horns 2]

1 minute ago, Rex Kramer said:

Not move goalposts. And be indifferent as to whether he lived in a socialist state or not. I am not Jesus. I am not indifferent about that. 

Yes, yes socialist state. Democrats are just trying to take your guns and give all your money to the poor, bro! Fuck the poor, they don't deserve it. My family deserves it and we thank you for your monthly contributions out of your paychecks. 

[Guest]

Just now, Rich Horns said:

Yes, yes socialist state. Democrats are just trying to take your guns and give all your money to the poor, bro! Fuck the poor, they don't deserve it. My family deserves it and we thank you for your monthly contributions out of your paychecks. 

A) I was responding to an admitted socialist. You were not involved in the conversation. Fuck off. 

B) I don’t have any guns. 

C) I have no clue what you’re blathering about. 

[Brian Fantana 6668]

That's a troll sock should probably just ignore it.

[deadshank 24651]

1 hour ago, relapse98 said:

 

Not sure what baptist church you go to, but Ed Young at Second Baptist sure as shit discusses gays.

What has he said?

[relapse98 634]

5 minutes ago, deadshank said:

What has he said?

You can watch at least one sermon of his here.

 

You can read a Q&A here.

Edited May 21, 2018 by relapse98

[David Dennison 18664]

3 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

You can watch at least one sermon of his here.

 

You can read a Q&A here.

Blaming it all on God is so cowardly.

[deadshank 24651]

12 minutes ago, relapse98 said:

You can watch at least one sermon of his here.

 

You can read a Q&A here.

Can't open the video.  Read the Q&A.  What's the big deal about the Q&A?  Did you expect something else?

[gsoda3 3237]

3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

You should read up on Constantine and the spread of Christianity throughout the Roman empire.

yeah all those rich upper crust christians getting burned alive, crucified, killed for sport, beheaded, stripped of all possessions and rights.... for two hundred years before constantine... doing a really good job looking after their best interests and keeping people in line. 

[relapse98 634]

8 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Can't open the video.  Read the Q&A.  What's the big deal about the Q&A?  Did you expect something else?

You need to go look at the post (which I quoted) in my reply.

Quote

That battleground is largely brought to you by people on the left. My Baptist Church doesn’t discuss that bullshit.

...

I’ve been to a lot of churches in my 41 years.  Texas Church of Christ and Baptist Churches. They don’t discuss creationism or gays.

It was asserted that Baptist churches, that he has attended, don't talk about that bullshit. Part of that bullshit being gays.

I found some documentation that Ed Young, pastor of the second largest baptist church in Houston, does discuss that bullshit.

Edited May 21, 2018 by relapse98

[David Dennison 18664]

4 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

yeah all those rich upper crust christians getting burned alive, crucified, killed for sport, beheaded, stripped of all possessions and rights.... for two hundred years before constantine... doing a really good job looking after their best interests and keeping people in line. 

Rich Romans and their emperor made Christianity fashionable.

No more martyrs.