Evangelical Christians

[DDD Dad 14332]

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26444]

1 hour ago, F250 said:

 

I think some would return but there will need to be some kind of apology. There was a lot of turmoil back then, a lot of people were hurt by the divisiveness. I am hopeful though, back then a lot of the youth spoke out against what was happening. However, the youth have no voice in the church but now those young people are the same people that are assuming control of the SBC as elders of the church.

 

"Christianity got over the difficulty of combining furious opposites, by keeping them both, and keeping them both furious."
- GK Chesterton

[Pancho 44757]

I’m guessing there’s a connection here

 

[Mole 4330]

On 6/26/2018 at 12:35 PM, Pescado_Rojo said:

Man, I don't know what to make of the new "woke" Baptist Church. 

They're associated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, which as has been mentioned broke with SBC. They allow female pastors and are struggling through figuring out same-sex marriage.  Their policy on SSM is contentious and currently pretty incoherent. 

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1610]

I'm late to the party on this one... I dont really give a shit what an "evangelical's" political persuasion is. I'm more concerned with when any swinging dick will ever provide credible, testable, repeatable evidence that shows why the shit they are pushing has any basis in fact. Meet the burden of proof or go the fuck away with the theological horseshit, and for damned sure keep it out of anything to do with the government.

Edited July 1, 2018 by HOOK'EMHOOAH

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

[Pancho 44757]

Get called out, storm off the set.  

 

[TwiceHorn 31449]

On 6/26/2018 at 2:41 PM, DDD Dad said:

 

Get thee behind me, Satan.

 

Also, somehow doesn't surprise me that Jeffress has taken to arena preaching.  There should be lions in that particular one.

Edited July 6, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[bularry1 23]

On 6/23/2018 at 9:39 AM, troph said:

Texas Republican Party doubled down on their “Biblical” views recently. Easy to sum up... God hates fags and trannies, and so do we.

Politicizing the Gospel might be the most heinous thing to happen in our country in my lifetime. Believe or don’t but if you do, stick the the red letter text in the New Testament, we will all be better for it.
 

sadly, all true.

 

the Dan Patrick Texas Republicans make my physically nauseous.  not even being sarcastic.  and i've voted Repub my entire adult life

[yaqdum 182]

23 hours ago, bularry1 said:

not even being sarcastic

indeed.  the gop has found the abyss and has flung itself hard and with true and reckless abandon.  all the while calling it the mountain.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

Dan Patrick deserves to be thrown off a cliff. He makes our entire state look like it's full of retards.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

Time for a necro bump on Resurrection Sunday. 

I'm gonna reread some of this. It has been a while 

[NWBuck 8552]

1 hour ago, NWBuck said:

Yup... I fully get that (that article is an important part of my doctoral work.  )

What's surprising to me is how quickly a group of folks who espoused values for being "in the world but not of the world" sold their souls to be "in the world with power to rule it". It's an interesting debate over end times, in some circles: Screw the world, 'cause we're going to heaven -vs- Getting the world ready for Jesus to come back and build heaven here.

 

17 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I could stand to dig deeper into this, but it would be a serious derailment.

Do we have an evangelical thread already?

Edit: I have several questions lined up as well as commentary. I'll save them for later. 

Just to give us a place holder.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

On 5/11/2018 at 1:42 AM, cactusflinthead said:

Hey Newdoc. I got all the Evangelical cred you might could ask for. SBC yo. I can quote Scripture and I have the Scofield in the new and old KJV plus others. Does that count? If I am a believer that has disavowed the stance of Jeffress and the son of Graham do I count? Can I now leave the Baptists and go unto  the Methodists or maybe even go all the way and be an Episcopalian? That's still Protestant right? 

Bring it on. let's dance

Since then I went to the Presbyterians. I haven't stopped calling myself an outlaw Baptist though. I do still see online and in the newspapers what motivated the creation of the thread.

On 5/11/2018 at 7:43 AM, atomheartbevo said:

The biggest difference between Baptists and Methodists, is the Methodists will say “hi” to each other in the liquor store. 

Still true. 

On 5/11/2018 at 7:48 AM, Guest said:

I love how “evangelical” has become a dirty word. 

Howdy Rex! 

On 5/11/2018 at 7:58 AM, atomheartbevo said:

It should, since so many sold out to hop on the Trump train.

My wife goes to a large Baptist church, which means I occasionally do.  Plenty of them, you can tell they know that Trump is not a good person, is not much of a Christian, etc., but they are too locked into team politics to critically analyze him.

edit: On the other hand, plenty of people I talk to 1-on-1 are not comfortable with Trump and acknowledge his flaws.   But getting them to say it publicly is impossible.  And this is a church with large immigrant populations (they have a couple of services for Spanish and Korean speakers), with a lot of members who spend time and/or money supporting missions in South America, Africa, and India.  

I got a look at the voting patterns in a county where I lived. At least one of the ministry staff at my Baptist church voted in the Democratic primary while I was there. Has it changed? Trump's numbers haven't been that far away from 37-42. I think the last number I saw for evangelicals of all colors was ~70. I'd like to drill into ethnic groups. And those into ages. The younger white evangelical is not as prone to hate on the gay. Sure, some do, but not as big a number as the 55+demos. The other ethnic groups show similar. I guess I should go check Pew again. 

I'm having a hard time articulating the idea that is in some circles that it's a representation of faith to deny the facts of our eyes in favor of a belief that is unseen. 

It's hinged upon in many sermons by citing, Hebrew 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." 

That's a license to deny science, to deny that the basic laws of nature apply. You are literally believing against what you're seeing. Believing into existence what you can't see.

It's what makes it easy for them to withstand against basic shit most of us take for granted. Vaccines are evil. Experts are dumb. My ignorance is as important as your education. (Poor rendering of Asimov)

I don't like that 'evangelical' has become a descriptor for willfully ignorant people. But, there it is. I don't know what the SBC will look like in the future. Or the Church of Christ. Or the AG, COGIC, UPC, or the UMC. We're seeing a division in the Anglicans. I suspect that there will be others. 

Those quotes were P1. I've got a lot more to review. 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

Yep. Right at 70. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/03/18/evangelical-approval-of-trump-remains-high-but-other-religious-groups-are-less-supportive/

Roughly seven-in-ten white evangelical Protestants (69%) say they approve of the way Trump is handling his job as president, according to the Center’s latest polling in January 2019. This is somewhat lower than Trump’s approval rating in the earliest days of his tenure – when about eight-in-ten white evangelicals (78%) approved of his job performance – but is in line with most polls conducted by the Center since the inauguration.

[Gil Bang 25944]

15 months ago?

[tx 3 putt 76905]

They sold their souls and betrayed this country to support a false prophet 

 

[Carl Spackler 3480]

3 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

Yep. Right at 70. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/03/18/evangelical-approval-of-trump-remains-high-but-other-religious-groups-are-less-supportive/

Roughly seven-in-ten white evangelical Protestants (69%) say they approve of the way Trump is handling his job as president, according to the Center’s latest polling in January 2019. This is somewhat lower than Trump’s approval rating in the earliest days of his tenure – when about eight-in-ten white evangelicals (78%) approved of his job performance – but is in line with most polls conducted by the Center since the inauguration.

Fucking morons

[tx 3 putt 76905]

id be curious to hear an evangelical's take on things 

[NWBuck 8552]

50 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

id be curious to hear an evangelical's take on things 

FWIW, I consider myself an ex-vangelical... Born and raised in a pastor's home, seminary trained and ordained, worked most of my life in evangelical contexts. I'd meet the Bebbington Quadrilateral, but might not define those terms the same as others.

So, I'm one of the ESA and Red Letter Christian and CCDA type of folks, and I think things could be a hell of a lot better. 

[UDontKnow 10444]

2 hours ago, NWBuck said:

FWIW, I consider myself an ex-vangelical... Born and raised in a pastor's home, seminary trained and ordained, worked most of my life in evangelical contexts. I'd meet the Bebbington Quadrilateral, but might not define those terms the same as others.

So, I'm one of the ESA and Red Letter Christian and CCDA type of folks, and I think things could be a hell of a lot better. 

Can you translate your post for someone that is not Christian and was not brought up in a Christian environment?

What are your current views and practices on proselytizing?

[DixonHur 11296]

Starting to understand why their forefathers were forced out of England

[Bama Llama 1450]

Eloi, meet Morlocks.  Imagine no religion, indeed. 

Jesus H. - wait.

[NWBuck 8552]

36 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Can you translate your post for someone that is not Christian and was not brought up in a Christian environment?

What are your current views and practices on proselytizing?

Yeah, my fault... I got a little inside baseball there. I'm sorry. 

There are a few posts on the first page of this thread that get into some of what I was talking about. But to answer your question... I personally don't believe in actively proselytizing as a first priority or goal. I know folks who do, who believe that they have found something life changing and hope giving that others need to know (or something folks should know to ensure that they are able to avoid something terrible). I can understand this: "one beggar telling another where they found bread"... Hell, we even see this when we talk about our favorite football teams, and that's only slightly life and death related. 

For me, the hope is that the way others experience me is winsome enough to encourage them to something deeper for themselves. If my actions don't reflect care and affirmation of the other person, or if they are not indicative of my own hope, then my words about foundational philosophies or purposeful arguments are meaningless. 

However, I personally am also interested in learning from others... I could be wrong, or there might be something I need to hear in another person's story. So my sharing my understandings is a part of a conversation rather than a debate or sales job. Again, this hopefully also acknowledges the other person as a fellow traveler, rather than just an element of a transaction. It seems like this might reflect more appreciation of their inherent dignity... Or that's the intent. 

So... Will I share my beliefs with others? Sure- and I'll "use words if necessary". Will I try to indoctrinate and convince them to my way of thinking as the only answer? Nope. That's not my understanding of my purpose in life or even my role in the equation. 

[Dnaguy 11943]

Episode 205: ‘For God and Country’
(podcast hyperlinked )

Listened to this National Review podcast after Morning Joe Scar. Had linked their 206 episode about the Coronavirus response debacle.... which was interesting because of how critical it was of Trump’s response.
This episode is anything but ... when it comes to the religious right. 
Boy howdy if this isn’t some shit.

Here’s the amazon description of the book ‘Dr.’ Ralph Reed is pimping:

 

Quote

Description

Product description

Donald Trump—Defender of Religious Freedom 

In 2016, many Christian leaders opposed candidate Donald Trump. He was a social liberal, and his vulgarity, divorces, affairs, and scandals made it impossible for him to defend Christian values in public life. Or so they thought. 

Trump nevertheless won an overwhelming majority of the Evangelical vote in 2016, as well as the Catholic vote. And in 2020, the idea that he can’t represent Christians is demonstrably false. He has been the most ardent and effective presidential defender of religious liberty and the pro-life cause since Ronald Reagan—whom he has even surpassed in many ways. 

In  For God and Country, Dr. Ralph Reed draws on his deep knowledge of American history, his unsurpassed experience as a political strategist, his personal dealings with President Trump and the First Family, and his moral commitment as a Christian to show why Catholics and Evangelicals should continue to support their unlikely champion. 

In  For God and Country, Reed reveals: 
  

• The sincerity of President Trump’s Christian faith—and why he has delivered policy victories when other pro-Christian presidents haven’t 
• Why Trump is the most pro-Israel president in American history
• How liberals hope to demoralize Christians—and thus defeat Donald Trump and reverse his pro-life, pro-family, pro–religious freedom policies
• Why Never-Trump Christians naively preach de facto political surrender

For God and Country is not just required reading for the 2020 election; it is required reading for every conservative Christian who loves America and wants to return it to Christian values. 

  
 

 

Review

"In  For God and Country, Ralph Reed dismantles liberal media falsehoods and provides a compelling analysis of why Evangelical Christians back Donald Trump—because his policies reflect their values and he is a champion for their beliefs. If you want to understand why Trump won in 2016 and will do so again in 2020, read this book." -- Mark Levin, host of The Mark Levin Show, host of Life, Liberty, & Levin on Fox News, and bestselling author 

"For decades, Evagelicals have wanted to defend their rights and answer their critics. In this terrific book, Ralph Reed shows them how. And he correctly argues they are right to support Donald Trump and his policies." -- Mark Meadows, congressman from North Carolina and former chairman of the House Freedom Caucus 

"As Ralph Reed makes clear in his brilliant new book, Christians stand with Trump because he stands for important biblical principles including the right to life and religious liberty. If the Left was surprised by the level of Evangelical support for Trump in 2016, their heads will explode in 2020 when they see even more Evangelicals rally around the most pro-life, pro-religious liberty, and pro-Israel president in history." -- Dr. Robert Jeffress, pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, and author of Courageous: 10 Strategies for Thriving in a Hostile World 

"Donald Trump may not have been my first choice for president (I was!), but I joined tens of millions of Evangelicals in supporting him. In this rollicking account, Ralph Reed shows how these God-fearing, patriotic voters made the difference for Trump in 2016—and will likely do so again in 2020." -- Mike Huckabee, former governor of Arkansas, host of Huckabee on the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), and bestselling author

About the Author

Dr. Ralph Reed Jr. is the chairman and CEO of Century Strategies, a public relations and public affairs firm. He has worked on eleven presidential campaigns, chaired the Georgia Republican Party, and served on the Evangelicals for Trump Coalition. Reed was the founding executive director of the Christian Coalition and founded and serves as the chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, a pro-family public policy organization with 2.2 million members and activists. He is the author or editor of seven bestselling books, and his columns have appeared in the  New York Times,  Wall Street Journal, and  National Review. He earned a B.A. from the University of Georgia and a Ph.D. in history from Emory University. He and his wife, Jo Anne, have four children and one grandchild and reside in Atlanta, Georgia.

 

 

[Brandywine 1316]

Trump said he was going to watch Robert Jeffries yesterday for Easter. I wonder if he actually did and if his ADD kicked in and he started his tweeting of vile and venom? 

[DixonHur 11296]

Saw this article today and thought it would fit in perfectly here...here's the bullet point version with the whole thing in the spoiler.

Could American Evangelicals Spot the Antichrist? Here Are the Biblical Predictions:

• The Antichrist will be the leader of a nation that is a military superpower with the ability to trample and crush the entire earth.

  • “The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.” - Daniel. 7:23

• The Antichrist will be a man who is exceptionally arrogant and will be known for giving boastful speeches.

  • “I could hear his boastful speech…” - Daniel 7:8, Revelation 13:5

• The Antichrist will be someone known for making a lot of public threats against people.

  • “…had a mouth like that of a lion.” - Revelation 13:2, Daniel. 7:4

• The Antichrist will cause people all over the globe to be filled with wonder and “follow” him.

  • “The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.” - Revelation. 13:3

• The Antichrist will be a political outsider with despicable character and a contemptuous personality who wins an election that no one expects him to win. 

  • “… a despicable person will arise… a man of contempt… to whom the royal honor has not been rightfully conferred. He will slip in when least expected and will seize the kingdom through flattery and intrigue.” - Daniel 11:21

• The Antichrist will give speeches where he speaks “great things” and then about things that are even “greater.”

  • “He had a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions…” - Daniel 7:20

• The Antichrist comes to power through collusion with a secret alliance who uses disinformation to help him win– even though he has a minority number of supporters.

  • “After an alliance is made with him he will practice deception, and he will go up and gain power with a small force of people.” - Daniel 11:23

• The Antichrist’s rise to power will seem like a miracle that God performed, tricking people into following Satan instead of God without even noticing.

  • “The arise in power of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie.” - 2 Thess. 2:9

  • “He did everything wrong, politically. He offended gays. He offended women. He offended the military. He offended black people. He offended the Hispanic people. He offended everybody! And he became president of the United States. Only God could do that.” - Franklin Graham

• As president, the Antichrist will immediately find ways to make himself and his friends richer– and he will do it in a way no president had ever done before.

  • “Then he will distribute among his followers the plunder and wealth of the rich—something his predecessors had never done.” - Daniel 11:24

• Once in power the Antichrist will reveal that his heart wants to make alterations to the “appointed times” that are in current laws.

  • “He will try to change the set times and the laws.” - Dan. 7:25

• The Antichrist will make fake news popular and will be a chronic liar. His followers will believe his delusions because they hate the truth.

  • “He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior… He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.” - Daniel 8:25, 2 Thess 2:10

• The Antichrist will reward those who are completely loyal with powerful positions and lucrative real estate deals.

  • “He will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will sell them land at a price.” - Daniel 11:39b

• The Bible says that we’ll be able to spot the Antichrist because he will give an arrogant public speech in the middle of his first term where he boasts of “great things” but also uses God’s name as a curse in the same speech.

  • “And there was given to him a mouth speaking of ‘great things’ and blasphemous words… and he opened his mouth saying terrible things and blasphemed the name of God.”  - Revelation 13:5-6

  • “They'll be hit so g--damn hard,” while bragging about bombing Islamic State militants. And Trump recounting his warning to a wealthy businessman: “If you don't support me, you're going to be so g--damn poor.”

• The Antichrist will draw strong support from many Christians as if they are willfully blind and outright delusional.

  • “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and appear to perform ‘great’ signs and wonders so as to lead astray, if possible, God’s own people. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction…” - Matt. 24:24, 2nd Thess 2:10

• The Antichrist will spend his first term in office having an ongoing feud with the leadership of the nation on his southern border.

  • “He will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South…” - Daniel 11:25

• The Antichrist will be so angry at the king to his south that he will decide to intentionally inflict harm on that ethnic group in retaliation.

  • “He will set himself against the people… doing much damage before continuing his journey.” - Daniel 11:28

• The Antichrist will be furious over “rumors and reports” that come from the east and north, and will fly into fits of rage as the reports surface. 

  • “But reports will trouble him from the east and north, and he will set out in a tremendous rage to destroy and wipe out many.” - Daniel 11:44

• The Antichrist will appear to receive a wound he can’t recover from, but will survive to put down the first attempts to remove him from office.

  • “[He] appeared to be fatally wounded, but the fatal wound was healed– and the whole world was amazed.” - Revelation 13:3

  • Ah! Well. Nevertheless

• The Antichrist will have the nation’s most powerful religious leader influencing the country for him. This leader will try to convince Christians that the Antichrist is “God’s pick” and that we need to support him.

  • “And then I saw a second beast come from the Earth who looked like a lamb but spoke like a dragon… and it deceived the inhabitants of the Earth…” - Revelation 13:11–12

• The Antichrist will see himself as being above everyone else, as if he had no need for God. He will eventually elevate himself as the God and King of Israel

  • “And he will exalt himself above all… so that he sets himself up in God’s own temple in Israel, proclaiming himself to be God.” - 2nd Thess 2:4, Rev 17

  • There really is a Tweet for every occasion....“Thank you to Wayne Allyn Root for the very nice words. “President Trump is the greatest President for Jews and for Israel in the history of the world, not just America, he is the best President for Israel in the history of the world...and the Jewish people in Israel love him....like he’s the King of Israel. They love him like he is the second coming of God...But American Jews don’t know him or like him. They don’t even know what they’re doing or saying anymore. It makes no sense! 

• The Antichrist will worship the god of border walls.

  • “He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. Instead of them, he will honor a god no one will have heard of before: the god of fortresses. And he will worship this god with a lot of money.” - Daniel 11:37-38

• The Antichrist’s most devoted followers will wear a sign of their allegiance to him on their foreheads.

  • “And they received a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads…” - Revelation 13

  • MAGA!

• But the people who truly know God and remain faithful, will firmly “resist” him.

  • With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him. - Daniel 11:32

 

 

Spoiler

Could American Evangelicals Spot the Antichrist? Here Are the Biblical Predictions:

I've reviewed every prophecy on the Antichrist, and what I read blew my mind:

• Benjamin L. Corey
• 213 Comments

 

Does the Bible predict the future with stunning accuracy as so many in the end-times camp have claimed?

I grew up in the rapture-me-outta-here end times movement, and have spilled no shortage of ink critiquing it– even poking a bit of fun at it. As a theologian I fall into a category of belief that sees biblical prophecies about “the end” as being events that have mostly been fulfilled in the past, but I try to hold that belief gently and recognize I could be wrong.

Many of my fellow Christians in America have warned me over the years of exactly that, often telling me: “I feel sorry for you, because when the Antichrist comes you’re not even going to recognize him!”

To honor those who have given me such warning, I decided to spend the past week studying the most significant biblical prophecies and descriptions typically believed by my conservative friends to refer the Antichrist. If my evangelical friends are correct, and if it’s entirely possible that the Antichrist is on the global scene today, I certainly wouldn’t want to be the only person in the room who didn’t recognize the Antichrist when I saw him.

In case you too are a bit rusty in the area of biblical predictions about the coming Antichrist and don’t want to be oblivious if such a person were to arise, consider me your chief antichristologist who is more than happy to help you out.

Here are the no-kidding-not-satire-prophecies and signs of the antichrist the Bible tells us to watch out for… and that blew my mind by the time I was done:

 

 

The Antichrist will be the leader of a nation that is a military superpower with the ability to trample and crush the entire earth.

 “The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.”

Daniel. 7:23

This verse helps us start by narrowing down the nations and times the Antichrist could come from. The passage directly states he is from a nation that was different from times before, in that it was powerful enough to crush and destroy the entire earth– likely a nuclear superpower. Revelation also speaks of the Antichrist and his prophet having the power to “call down fire from the sky,” which further supports this notion.

Thus, when considering the prophecy in light of the modern world, it most likely leaves Russia or the United States, as both have over 6,000 warheads with remaining nuclear nations having under a few hundred. Furthermore, Revelation 17:15 describes the Antichrist coming from a place where there are “multitudes of peoples, nations, and languages” which would most accurately depict a “melting pot” nation like the United States.

 

The Antichrist will be a man who is exceptionally arrogant and will be known for giving boastful speeches.

“I could hear his boastful speech…”

Daniel 7:8, Revelation 13:5

 

So, as you keep your eyes peeled for the Antichrist, be sure to keep in mind that it won’t be a quiet leader who is deceitfully humble and flies under the radar– The Bible says it will be someone who loves to give speeches where he boasts about himself.

 

 

The Antichrist will be someone known for making a lot of public threats against people.

“…had a mouth like that of a lion.”

Revelation 13:2, Daniel. 7:4

 

As we begin to assemble the biblical prophecies, Christians on guard should be looking for a king-like figure who loves to boast about himself, but who also loves to go around roaring like a lion– things like threats to his enemies and a constant verbal flexing of muscle.

 

 

The Antichrist will come from among 7 tall “hills” that each act as a “head.”

“And I saw a beast coming out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads, which stood for seven hills”

Revelation 13:1, Ch. 17

John described the Antichrist (beast) “rising up from the sea” as he looked out from the Island of Patmos in a supernatural vision. The Bible describes the beast as having 7 heads, which symbolized 7 “hills” that stood up high. Hills also are metaphorical for places of power in the Bible.

So, if the Antichrist were to come in the present age, we’d be most likely looking for an American president known for being exceptionally arrogant, boastful, and threatening others, but who also came from 7 tall “hills” or places of power… one of which would need to be somewhere in the vicinity of where John was looking out into the ocean where the vision occurred.

Huh… well this is a super weird coincidence:

 

 

Seven heads? Maybe like potential head-quarters?

Well, funny thing again: while Donald Trump owns at least ten skyscrapers that I’m aware of, apparently only seven of them are formally named Trump Towers:

Trump Tower, NYC

Trump International Hotel and Tower, Chicago

Trump Towers, Istanbul

Trump International Hotel and Tower, Toronto

Trump World Tower, New York

Trump Towers, Sunny Isles Beach

Trump Tower, Manila 

And this is a little bizarre, but in John’s vision he said that the 7 heads had horns on them– some had just one, some had two… kinda like those antennas on top.

Wow, and you know what? John’s vision also said that the seven heads all had someone’s name written across them. Interesting! 

And let’s not even open the can of worms regarding the building on 5th ave… Yeah, the same deal that was bailed out by Justice Kennedy’s son before Kennedy surprised everyone and retired– giving Trump what had been a swing vote on the Supreme Court. #PowerMove

Bummer of an address Jared! Glad you were able to offload that.

 

 

The Antichrist will cause people all over the globe to be filled with wonder and “follow” him.

“The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.”

Revelation. 13:3

This verse also speaks to the likelihood the coming of the Antichrist is more likely to be in the modern world instead of the ancient one. 2,000 years ago it would not have been possible for people all over the globe to become fascinated by a political leader, let alone “follow” them.

 

Okay, I get it…

Some predictions and prophecies can be like horoscopes: they can appear to apply to anyone.

And I’m with you… when you get into stuff like numerology and interpreting seven-headed beasts, it’s hard to know if something is an eerie coincidence, or just plain silly. 

I’d honestly started this post intending to be silly, and during my research began to find the coincidences and certain numbers happening to match a bit amusing the first few times. But at a certain point the coincidences added up or got too specific, and it wasn’t funny anymore– it was deeply unsettling.

And by the end? Well, stick with me as the prophecies grow more specific, and you’ll see why my mind was a bit blown– and why as a Christian my spirit was deeply unsettled by the the end of it: 

 

The Antichrist will be a political outsider with despicable character and a contemptuous personality who wins an election that no one expects him to win. 

“… a despicable person will arise… a man of contempt… to whom the royal honor has not been rightfully conferred. He will slip in when least expected and will seize the kingdom through flattery and intrigue.”

Daniel 11:21

When looking to identify the Antichrist, the Bible starts to help us with some really specific prophecies. Based on what the Bible predicts, a most likely scenario for the arrival of the Antichrist would be a candidate for president who came from the private sector (not of ‘royal’ background) being found with despicable morality along with a contemptuous personality, who campaigned on flattery and lies– but somehow went on to win an election no one expected him to win… leaving the country stunned.

 

 

The Antichrist will give speeches where he speaks “great things” and then about things that are even “greater.”

“He had a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions…”

Daniel 7:20

Starting to get weird now, isn’t it? This is about the point I got goosebumps and a little freaked out also.

Yes, in warning us of the Antichrist the Bible predicts in both Daniel and Revelation that when the Antichrist comes, he’ll not only be the contemptuous and arrogant political outsider who pulls an upset in the election– but warns us that he’ll specifically be speaking of “great” and “greater” things along the way.

 

The Antichrist comes to power through collusion with a secret alliance who uses disinformation to help him win– even though he has a minority number of supporters.

“After an alliance is made with him he will practice deception, and he will go up and gain power with a small force of people.”

Daniel 11:23

So, you know… according to God’s holy and infallible word and all, one of the other major signs to warn us of the arrival of the Antichrist would be an election where someone won with fewer supporters, and where it was also proven that an evil outside power meddled with the process to specifically put that person in office.

But I can’t imagine the country would turn a blind eye if that ever happened, especially for my evangelical friends who tell me we need to always be on guard for the arrival of the Antichrist.

 

 

 

The Antichrist’s rise to power will seem like a miracle that God performed, tricking people into following Satan instead of God without even noticing.

“The arise in power of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie.”

2 Thess. 2:9

Evil is evil, but evil is not stupid… or at least, Satan isn’t. When the time comes to make his power move in the human story, he’ll find a way to not only make evil palatable– he’ll try the ultimate bait and switch by making God himself seem responsible for this evil. What better way to get a hit in, than to do it and make it look like God actually did it?

When the Antichrist comes, be sure to look for powerful religious folk claiming it was a miracle from God: 

“He did everything wrong, politically. He offended gays. He offended women. He offended the military. He offended black people. He offended the Hispanic people. He offended everybody! And he became president of the United States. Only God could do that.”

Franklin Graham

False Prophet

 

 

As president, the Antichrist will immediately find ways to make himself and his friends richer– and he will do it in a way no president had ever done before.

“Then he will distribute among his followers the plunder and wealth of the rich—something his predecessors had never done.”

Daniel 11:24

In this verse the Bible continues down the path of helping us get more specific about the rise of the Antichrist so we won’t miss it when we see it: He says that the Antichrist will be unique from all other presidents before him in the way he will be able to use the presidency to instantly get richer and toss lots of money over to his friends.

While all modern presidents are wealthy, and politicians give kick-backs, Daniel indicates something will be different about this president and that he will uniquely profit off the presidency in a way that previous presidents never imagined. 

This prophecy could likely only be fulfilled if a rich business person were to win a deceptively influenced election, and then serve as president with some sort of business structure that got he and his friends richer and richer just from being president.

If such a thing were to ever occur, you might likely hear a government oversight body state something to the effect of: “The president has turned the government of the United States into a money-making operation for his family, his friends and himself.”

 

 

 

Once in power the Antichrist will reveal that his heart wants to make alterations to the “appointed times” that are in current laws.

“He will try to change the set times and the laws.”

Dan. 7:25

What’s fascinating is that the Bible never tells us he actually succeeds or does change the appointed cycles, but that he expresses wanting to change them. What would it look like to express an interest in changing laws around cycles and appointed times? It would likely be that the Antichrist will want to change elections, skip an election, or extend term limits, etc, thus what the Bible says of “intending to alter laws for appointed times…”

 

 

The Antichrist will make fake news popular and will be a chronic liar. His followers will believe his delusions because they hate the truth.

“He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior… He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.”

Daniel 8:25, 2 Thess 2:10

Daniel 8 and 2nd Thessalonians 2 are incredibly descriptive warnings to help us recognize the Antichrist. Predicting that under his rule “deceit will prosper” warns us to look for someone who calls the truth “fake news” and who is known for constantly lying.

In fact, the Antichrist lies so much that the Bible stops calling him the Antichrist and starts calling him The Liar– using the definite article for effect– as if he begins to personify fake news and lies.

 

 

The Antichrist will reward those who are completely loyal with powerful positions and lucrative real estate deals.

“He will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will sell them land at a price.”

Daniel 11:39b

No kidding: the Bible predicts the Antichrist will be someone who negotiates powerful real estate deals with his friends.

The Antichrist is someone in need of constant affirmation, so the Bible predicts he will use his position to surround himself with blind loyalists who honor and submit to him.

To spot the Antichrist as the Bible predicts, look for a president who gives high level positions away on the basis of personal loyalty. While all politics involve a level of this, the Bible calls the Antichrist a worthless shepherd’ so he will likely have a cabinet of leaders in disarray and incompetence, with many being blatantly unqualified or even a bunch of them going to jail.

If that’s not enough to help us identify the Antichrist, the Bible throws us a major bone: He’ll be a president experienced at negotiating land and property deals, and he’ll have access to plenty to buy and sell. 

While some prophecies are general enough to fit certain leaders here and there, thankfully the Bible give us some rather specific clues to also look for– like a rich and arrogant political outsider who happens to be in the business of negotiating land and property deals.

 

 

The Bible says that we’ll be able to spot the Antichrist because he will give an arrogant public speech in the middle of his first term where he boasts of “great things” but also uses God’s name as a curse in the same speech.

“And there was given to him a mouth speaking of ‘great things’ and blasphemous words… and he opened his mouth saying terrible things and blasphemed the name of God.” 

Revelation 13:5-6

I mean, if this were to happen all my end-times friends would spot it, wouldn’t they? Revelation 13 very specifically tells us that somewhere in the middle of his first three and a half years in office, the Antichrist will give a very specific and telling speech: he will arrogantly brag of his accomplishments and ‘great’ things, and will also use God’s name in a way considered to be blasphemy.

This would be exceedingly eye-brow-raising for any serious Antichrist hunter, were this to ever happen in a presidential speech… right?

 

 

The Antichrist will draw strong support from many Christians as if they are willfully blind and outright delusional.

“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and appear to perform ‘great’ signs and wonders so as to lead astray, if possible, God’s own people. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction…”

Matt. 24:24, 2nd Thess 2:10

Sorry, but I’m old enough to remember when revivals were for God and blasphemy was a serious sin.

 

 

The Antichrist will spend his first term in office having an ongoing feud with the leadership of the nation on his southern border.

“He will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South…”

Daniel 11:25

Creepy coincidence? The entire Antichrist narrative of Daniel 11 is situated around a conflict along the southern border where the Antichrist is wanting something that the king to his south wont give him. Based on the whole of Antichrist prophecies and the common thread of money and greed, it certainly appears to be money that he wants from the nation to his south…

The Bible predicts that negotiating a deal will be hopeless, as neither side is willing to budge. The Antichrist hates the leadership south of his border and hates his people. Not surprisingly, the Bible says they aren’t big fans of the northern king (v11:27). Scripture tells us that negotiations never get off the ground, as kings to the south don’t want to give the Antichrist anything.

It also says that the Antichrist will go down to the southern border as things heat up– there is a crisis where both sides have troops along the southern border– and that the Antichrist will return home with a large sum of money shortly after. 

Another interesting coincidence: in April 2019 Trump toured the southern border and returned home days later to the Pentagon awarding him $1 billion toward his border wall.

The Bible also says that even though the Antichrist will come home with a large sum of money, that he’s even more furious about things after.

Maybe the money wasn’t enough for what he wanted and didn’t know where the rest would come from? 

 

The Antichrist will be so angry at the king to his south that he will decide to intentionally inflict harm on that ethnic group in retaliation.

“He will set himself against the people… doing much damage before continuing his journey.”

Daniel 11:28

Yes, you’re tracking with me correctly: the Bible predicts the Antichrist will be an arrogant political outsider who talks about “great” and “greater” things, who wins an election where he has less supporters due to the election being tampered with, who then instantly gets rich off the presidency and spends his time in a feud with the president across from his southern border. 

And yes, the Bible actually says that after negotiations fail at the souther border he decides to get even by intentionally inflicting harm and distress on that ethnic group.

Get ready to have your mind blown with what Zechariah’s prophecy about the coming Antichrist says on this matter, especially in light of what Daniel tells us regarding the Antichrist’s retaliation along the border:

“There will be a leader over the land who will not help the ones who are dying.

He will not go looking for the young who got lost, or care for the children.

He won’t help the ones who are sick or broken, or even give nourishment to the hungry ones who are still healthy.”

– Zechariah 11:16-17

Children being ripped from their parents as a deterrent from crossing into the “northern kingdom,” refugees being locked in cages without adequate care, some dying in our custody, children still missing or given for adoption even though they weren’t orphans?

Yeah, the Bible references the “worthless shepherd” who will do that– AKA: the Antichrist.

Still need a few more warning signs from the Bible as to the identity of the Antichrist? Apparently God doesn’t want us to miss it, because the last few drive it all home:

 

 

The Antichrist will be furious over “rumors and reports” that come from the east and north, and will fly into fits of rage as the reports surface. 

“But reports will trouble him from the east and north, and he will set out in a tremendous rage to destroy and wipe out many.”

Daniel 11:44

That’s right: In the middle of the Antichrist’s feud along the southern border he will hear troubling “rumors and reports” that specifically come from the eastern and the northern parts of the country.

The Bible goes on to predict the rumors will “frighten” him and leave him so furious, that he has fits of rage and will want to destroy people over the reports.

 

 

The Antichrist will appear to receive a wound he can’t recover from, but will survive to put down the first attempts to remove him from office.

“[He] appeared to be fatally wounded, but the fatal wound was healed– and the whole world was amazed.” 

Revelation 13:3

And of course, when Trump squeaked by in the Russia investigation due to internal DOJ policy which doesn’t allow the indictment of a sitting president, everyone– most especially those who are too young to remember the OJ Simpson murder trial– was completely amazed he survived what very clearly seemed to be a fatal wound to his presidency.

 

 

The Antichrist will have the nation’s most powerful religious leader influencing the country for him. This leader will try to convince Christians that the Antichrist is “God’s pick” and that we need to support him.

“And then I saw a second beast come from the Earth who looked like a lamb but spoke like a dragon… and it deceived the inhabitants of the Earth…” 

Revelation 13:11–12

The Bible predicts the Antichrist will survive the near-fatal wound to his rule, but then goes on to tell us he will need the most powerful religious leader in the country to help him solidify support among the religious in order to stay in power– specifically around the 3 1/2 year mark.

3 1/2 year mark? That’s re-election season. Interesting!

The prophecy describes a political/religious alliance where the most influential religious leader in the country goes around speaking to large crowds, displaying any and all religious credentials he can muster, in order to generate support for the Antichrist rule to last more than just 3/12 years.

 

 

 

The Antichrist will see himself as being above everyone else, as if he had no need for God. He will eventually elevate himself as the God and King of Israel

“And he will exalt himself above all… so that he sets himself up in God’s own temple in Israel, proclaiming himself to be God.”

2nd Thess 2:4, Rev 17

However… it’s hard to imagine this actually happening. I don’t know if I’ve ever met a professing Christian who saw themselves as being so flawless or had zero reverence for God. Well, take that back– never mind the admission that he’s “never seen a need” to ask God forgiveness for anything, or saying, “Why should I repent if I haven’t done anything wrong?” just TODAY he did something that seemed unthinkable… 

Here’s Donald Trump, just as the Bible predicts, setting himself up like he’s the God and King of Israel:

Beyond words. This is what Antichrist looks like.

But you know what? He is not the God of Israel. He doesn’t worship or even know the God of Israel.

But are you ready for some Antichrist trolling about 2,600 years in the waiting?

Well, we know the Antichrist hates God and doesn’t worship him– but the Bible *does* actually let us in on a secret and tells us who the Antichrist does worship… and spoiler: it’s not actually Satan.

Drum roll please…..

 

 

 

The Antichrist will worship the god of border walls.

For real. The Bible actually says that.

 

“He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. Instead of them, he will honor a god no one will have heard of before: the god of fortresses. And he will worship this god with a lot of money.”

Daniel 11:37-38

You can’t even make this stuff up– yes, the Bible *actually* says that instead of worshipping the true God, the Antichrist will worship an unknown god of “fortresses.”

What does this word “fortress” literally translate to?

Border walls that secure a city or country, that’s what.

Yes, the Bible says the Antichrist will worship the god of border walls.

Some commentaries argue it’s not even referencing a real deity (though some think it was the ‘god of towers’ like a gate tower), but instead note that it is likely the Antichrist will be so obsessed with a border wall, worshipping it with a lot of money, that it functionally becomes his god.

Yup- trolling from long-since-dead-guys. Priceless!

 

 

The Antichrist’s most devoted followers will wear a sign of their allegiance to him on their foreheads.

“And they received a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads…”

Revelation 13

And we all thought it was going to be a barcode or chip….

And the final biblical prophecy on the Antichrist:

 

 

… But the people who truly know God and remain faithful, will firmly “resist” him.

With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

Daniel 11:32

Yup– even the name of our movement is mentioned in the Antichrist narrative.

…

So in the end, what do I believe theologically on the subject of eschatology after this research project?

I don’t know yet.

But what I do know is this: If the Antichrist comes, I’m not going to be the one guy in the room who doesn’t recognize him.

 

[Brisketexan 105095]

I'm not an "end-times" dude.  I think evangelical eschatology shit is just that, shit.

But for fuck's sake....IF one were to even contemplate believing in an anti-christ and an end of days, the world's superpower elevating one of the greatest lying narcissists in human history to a seat of god-like power, having him held up as God's anointed one by so-called "religious leaders" who are in it for financial gain (these people are worth hundreds of millions of dollars -- EACH), and having him lead humanity through a plague.....I mean, come the fuck on.  This timeline is full-on ridiculous.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Brisketexan

[DixonHur 11296]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm not an "end-times" dude.  I think evangelical eschatology shit is just that, shit.

But for fuck's sake....IF one were to even contemplate believing in an anti-christ and an end of days, the world's superpower elevating one of the greatest lying narcissists in human history to a seat of god-like power, having him held up as God's anointed one by so-called "religious leaders" who are in it for financial gain (these people are worth hundreds of millions of dollars -- EACH), and having him lead humanity through a plague.....I mean, come the fuck on.  This timeline is full-on ridiculous.

Yep, if the rapture were a snake it would have bit these fuckers on the nose

[BrickHorn 18218]

Uh, I’m no biblical scholar but I’m pretty sure The Revelation of John prophesied that the Antichrist would wear tan suits and eat fancy mustard.  

[DanTheHorn 4922]

On 7/1/2018 at 12:43 AM, Pancho said:

I’m guessing there’s a connection here

 

As they lose some they must create new ones.

[formermav43 4606]

On 5/11/2018 at 7:07 AM, formermav43 said:

Evangelical is a useless term these days. It’s completely divorced from its historical, theological meaning. 

As true as it was on the first page of the thread.

[pyrohornIII 4814]

15 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

They sold their souls and betrayed this country to support a false prophet 

 

What's amazing is he does no preaching, is not even pretending to be religious.  He just props up all the charlatans who preach prosperity gospel.  That and he makes bigotry, misogyny and greed acceptable, if not commendable.  That's the real power here, not religion.  Playing to the fears of white people afraid to lose power, afraid of change, afraid they might have to relinquish white privilege.    Religion is simply a tool to justify their actions.  And what could be more vague than the bible?

[F250 28767]

7 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Starting to understand why their forefathers were forced out of England

Those were not their forefathers. The Presbyterians have that lineage not the Evangelicals. Evangelicals are fairly new to the religious scene.

 

[formermav43 4606]

15 minutes ago, F250 said:

Those were not their forefathers. The Presbyterians have that lineage not the Evangelicals. Evangelicals are fairly new to the religious scene.

 

I wouldn’t say that. Evangelicalism certainly has some of its roots in Puritanism (and Presbyterianism for that matter).

[DixonHur 11296]

13 minutes ago, F250 said:

Those were not their forefathers. The Presbyterians have that lineage not the Evangelicals. Evangelicals are fairly new to the religious scene.

 

It was kind of a joke, but I was talking about the Pilgrims and Puritans.  

I thought the Presbyterians came from Scotland and Ireland, more than from England.

[BearSchlong 8083]

10 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

It was kind of a joke, but I was talking about the Pilgrims and Puritans.  

I thought the Presbyterians came from Scotland and Ireland, more than from England.

Scotland.  At my church we dedicate one Sunday a year to wearing Tartan and jamming to bagpipes.  Presbyterian church has splintered in recent decades, mine is still Presbyterian Church USA but all the right wingers left to go join Presbyterian Church of America cause they hate gays and women.

[F250 28767]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

It was kind of a joke, but I was talking about the Pilgrims and Puritans.  

I thought the Presbyterians came from Scotland and Ireland, more than from England.

True but they were not ousted out of Scotland, the Scots officially adopted Reformed theology earlier in the Reformation and went from Roman Catholicism to the Church of Scotland. They managed to skip most of the English Reformation where there was a transition from Roman Catholicism to Anglicanism and then the English Reformed separatists that eventually set sail for America.

[UDontKnow 10444]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Uh, I’m no biblical scholar but I’m pretty sure The Revelation of John prophesied that the Antichrist would wear tan suits and eat fancy mustard.  

Holy shit! I do those things!

[Brisketexan 105095]

3 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Scotland.  At my church we dedicate one Sunday a year to wearing Tartan and jamming to bagpipes.  Presbyterian church has splintered in recent decades, mine is still Presbyterian Church USA but all the right wingers left to go join Presbyterian Church of America cause they hate gays and women.

And lately, there's been a split off from PCUSA to "ECO" (evangelical covenant order of presbyterians) over the gay issue.  It's pathetic.

[BearSchlong 8083]

SIAP.  Not sure how accurate this is but I've always liked it.

 

[UDontKnow 10444]

7 hours ago, NWBuck said:

Yeah, my fault... I got a little inside baseball there. I'm sorry. 

There are a few posts on the first page of this thread that get into some of what I was talking about. But to answer your question... I personally don't believe in actively proselytizing as a first priority or goal. I know folks who do, who believe that they have found something life changing and hope giving that others need to know (or something folks should know to ensure that they are able to avoid something terrible). I can understand this: "one beggar telling another where they found bread"... Hell, we even see this when we talk about our favorite football teams, and that's only slightly life and death related. 

For me, the hope is that the way others experience me is winsome enough to encourage them to something deeper for themselves. If my actions don't reflect care and affirmation of the other person, or if they are not indicative of my own hope, then my words about foundational philosophies or purposeful arguments are meaningless. 

However, I personally am also interested in learning from others... I could be wrong, or there might be something I need to hear in another person's story. So my sharing my understandings is a part of a conversation rather than a debate or sales job. Again, this hopefully also acknowledges the other person as a fellow traveler, rather than just an element of a transaction. It seems like this might reflect more appreciation of their inherent dignity... Or that's the intent. 

So... Will I share my beliefs with others? Sure- and I'll "use words if necessary". Will I try to indoctrinate and convince them to my way of thinking as the only answer? Nope. That's not my understanding of my purpose in life or even my role in the equation. 

Interesting. And thanks for the explanation. I respect the "beggar-bread" analogy. It's a good reminder that some people are spreading the word because they truly believe that they are doing good for their fellow mankind. I believe they are misguided and frankly wish they would not do it, but I respect their intentions.

Having been on the other side of proselytizing efforts...especially during the 1st week of every semester on the 40 Acres (Thanks Mack? - I jest), it only came off as an attempt to denigrate my identity and existence as part of a concerted effort to exert control over me. It was comical at times to be questioned about faith just because it was not in a concept of one true God. That would eventually lead to questions about my desire for salvation and the possibility of my soul being damned to burn in hell. Eventually I learned to ignore and walk past such types. I am sure they found me rude in the way I dismissed them, but we all have to do things for our own self-preservation, right?

Edited April 13, 2020 by UDontKnow

[F250 28767]

26 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I wouldn’t say that. Evangelicalism certainly has some of its roots in Puritanism (and Presbyterianism for that matter)

Well Evangelicalism has roots in Roman Catholicism too but there is no lineage. Even if you were to use The Great Awakening as the establishment of Evangelicalism history it is tied to the Presbyterians and Methodists.

Evangelicalism as we know it now is only about 150 years old but yeah it does contain a mishmash of Reformed and Arminian theology without being descended from either group. It seems like they ordered a la carte from the Reformation menu, "I'll take 3 pieces of Calvinist TULIP with a side of Arminian free will and mix it with some homemade End Times eschatology."

[DixonHur 11296]

22 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

SIAP.  Not sure how accurate this is but I've always liked it.

 

As a direct descendant of Martin Luther, I'd like to apologise on behalf of the family for those Evangelical branches.

[NWBuck 8552]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

As a direct descendant of Martin Luther, I'd like to apologise on behalf of the family for those Evangelical branches.

No worries, man... Henry the VIII would have screwed it up eventually anyways (my branch comes out of the Anglican conundrum) 

[formermav43 4606]

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

Well Evangelicalism has roots in Roman Catholicism too but there is no lineage. Even if you were to use The Great Awakening as the establishment of Evangelicalism history it is tied to the Presbyterians and Methodists.

Evangelicalism as we know it now is only about 150 years old but yeah it does contain a mishmash of Reformed and Arminian theology without being descended from either group. It seems like they ordered a la carte from the Reformation menu, "I'll take 3 pieces of Calvinist TULIP with a side of Arminian free will and mix it with some homemade End Times eschatology."

I would use the First Great Awakening, and so would most religious historians, for that matter. There was a definite Puritan lineage to that movement through the Congregationalists.

At any rate, “Evangelicalism as we know it now” is nonsense anyway, because no one can even agree on what it currently means, as our disagreement indicates. 

[F250 28767]

37 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I would use the First Great Awakening, and so would most religious historians, for that matter. There was a definite Puritan lineage to that movement through the Congregationalists.

At any rate, “Evangelicalism as we know it now” is nonsense anyway, because no one can even agree on what it currently means, as our disagreement indicates. 

I mostly agree yet there are millions that identify as Evangelical and also happen to make up a significant political wing in our system. Religious Evangelicals are loosely defined but I don't think that is the case for Political Evangelicals.

[Brisketexan 105095]

44 minutes ago, F250 said:

I mostly agree yet there are millions that identify as Evangelical and also happen to make up a significant political wing in our system. Religious Evangelicals are loosely defined but I don't think that is the case for Political Evangelicals.

Again, in modern America, "Evangelical" has functionally zero meaning as a theological term.  It is entirely a political term now.

[formermav43 4606]

3 hours ago, F250 said:

I mostly agree yet there are millions that identify as Evangelical and also happen to make up a significant political wing in our system. Religious Evangelicals are loosely defined but I don't think that is the case for Political Evangelicals.

I’d agree with that. In fact, that’s part of the confusion with the meaning: even if we nail down what  it means historically and theologically (which is not necessarily the same to begin with), that group or groups and the political group are not coextensive.

[F250 28767]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Again, in modern America, "Evangelical" has functionally zero meaning as a theological term.  It is entirely a political term now.

Agree, it's a political view where political strategy informs the person rather than doctrine which would explain NRA Jesus.