Evangelical Christians

[NWBuck 8587]

Not new information, but pretty pointed nonetheless:

https://religionnews.com/2020/12/01/eric-metaxas-and-the-losing-of-the-evangelical-mind

Quote

Eric Metaxas, the author of biographies of William Wilberforce and Dietrich Bonhoeffer, has proclaimed that Donald Trump won the 2020 election “in a landslide.” As a result, Metaxas forecasts, many will be imprisoned for attempting to steal the election, an attempt that he calls “the most horrible thing that ever happened in the history of our nation.” Thankfully, “Jesus is with us in this fight.”

When a reputed evangelical public intellectual exhibits this behavior, it’s worth asking about the state of the evangelical mind. Recent proclamations by other evangelical Christians suggest a propensity to believe conspiracy theories on the origins of COVID-19, nefarious purposes underlying the coming vaccines, the climate change “hoax” and Tom Hanks leading a global pedophile ring.

How should Christians committed to thoughtful cultural engagement respond? When QAnon followers populate our church pews, how do we avoid losing hope for the Christian principle of integrating faith and reason? 

Evangelicals’ complicated relationship with conspiracy theories is probably not reducible to a single explanation, but reasons suggest themselves. A generation of evangelicals has been influenced by the wildly popular “Left Behind” series — end-times novels that used news headlines to fantasize about shady global networks. Conspiracy theories may appeal to white evangelicals as a way to make sense of a country that is less like them: less white, less rural, less old and less socially conservative.

 

[Biff Tannen 45743]

30 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Conspiracy theories may appeal to white evangelicals as a way to make sense of a country that is less like them: less white, less rural, less old and less socially conservative.

lulz

[UpperWestside 6190]

42 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Not new information, but pretty pointed nonetheless:

https://religionnews.com/2020/12/01/eric-metaxas-and-the-losing-of-the-evangelical-mind

 

The article asks Christians how to respond to all of this, especially if the people supporting the conspiracy theories go to your church. 
 

You pray for them. That’s it. All the rational thoughts in the world will not get a response other than anger and a dismissive attitude. If you don’t believe in God and think prayer is not an effective way to solve this issue find a friend who will pray in your place. You can try and talk to them about topics that are less volatile for their mind that is currently swept up in a cult movement.

[formermav43 4606]

59 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Not new information, but pretty pointed nonetheless:

https://religionnews.com/2020/12/01/eric-metaxas-and-the-losing-of-the-evangelical-mind

 

Almost as bad as his take on Bonhoeffer.

[SydneyCarton 48191]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

OK, so I came across this today and it was absolute gold.

But then I decided to look into Kenneth Copeland to see how blatant he was about grifting his "flock."  OMG, one of the first videos on his site is about how tithing will lead to prosperity.  It absolutely baffles me beyond comprehension how anyone could buy this BS for one second.  Carnies at least use a little trickier and slight of hand to grift you.  This is staight up- "give to me or God will smite you.  You don't want to be smoten, do ya?"  I knew he was a bad dude and a freak, but this is amazing.  Watch as much as you can stomach.

https://www.kcm.org/watch/tv-broadcast/the-tithers-top-10-0?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=CopelandNetwork

And he might be a billionaire 

[tx 3 putt 77450]

trump was their test and they failed. hell will be crowded with evangelicals 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Quote

How should Christians committed to thoughtful cultural engagement respond? When QAnon followers populate our church pews, how do we avoid losing hope for the Christian principle of integrating faith and reason? 

How should Christians respond? Like @UpperWestside, pray for them and then ask the minister to stop discussing politics from the pulpit or the church can talk to the IRS about paying taxes.

[TwiceHorn 31539]

13 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

How should Christians respond? Like @UpperWestside, pray for them and then ask the minister to stop discussing politics from the pulpit or the church can talk to the IRS about paying taxes.

I suspect that most evangelicals don't get their whacked beliefs from the pulpit so much as the various social things that they're involved with.  And even if they get it from clergy, too, it's probably not from the pulpit.  Evangelicals tend to cling to one another.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suspect that most evangelicals don't get their whacked beliefs from the pulpit so much as the various social things that they're involved with.  And even if they get it from clergy, too, it's probably not from the pulpit.  Evangelicals tend to cling to one another.

Depends upon the church. Plenty of pastors seem to cross that line when the spirit moves them.

[JimmyJames 12271]

Evangelical Christians have lost all credibility completely and forever with their support of trump. They might as well be a Jim Jones cult. Hope it was worth it.

[Biff Tannen 45743]

Seems like this belongs here.  Cross posted from the heavy music thread.

 

[bolverk 29727]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suspect that most evangelicals don't get their whacked beliefs from the pulpit so much as the various social things that they're involved with.  And even if they get it from clergy, too, it's probably not from the pulpit.  Evangelicals tend to cling to one another.

It gets preached directly from the pulpit. I witnessed it first hand growing up in a Baptist church, as well as the Sunday before this past election. My mom was staying with me for a few days after having eye surgery (lens replaced). She's been a member of the same congregation since 1977 and attends every Sunday. I felt bad for her and showed her how to stream the service on my laptop, and out of curiosity I wanted to hear what the preacher would say since the election was in a couple of days.

It was exactly like watching Fox News but imagine Sean Hannity preaching from the pulpit with him railing against socialism, that "Christianity is under attack" and they (the flock) had a Christian duty to protect this country. Now, granted, he never called out Biden or Democrats by name; he didn't have to when the messaging is the same as what they hear and see on their preferred cable teevee news station. It's a neat trick when your preacher can be a megaphone for an overtly partisan message without coming afoul of the IRS.

And it's a powerful reinforcement mechanism for the information bubble you live in when your preacher tells you that "they" or "those people" are working in cahoots with Satan, and therefore you have a moral, nay, religious duty to conquer your evil foes. ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIER!!!

It was the same bullshit garbage I was forced to listen to in silence for the first 17 years of my life, wishing that a different family would've adopted me as a baby.

Edited December 2, 2020 by bolverk

[Cacti 191]

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Plenty of pastors seem to cross that line when the spirit moves them.

That line was crossed well before my time, and I’m an old. Steering their flock in a certain political direction certainly isn’t limited to pastors who are Trump-supporting evangelicals.

[bolverk 29727]

2 minutes ago, Cacti said:

That line was crossed well before my time, and I’m an old. Steering their flock in a certain political direction certainly isn’t limited to pastors who are Trump-supporting evangelicals.

All the more reason to tax them all.

[tx 3 putt 77450]

2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Depends upon the church. Plenty of pastors seem to cross that line when the spirit moves them.

especially if there's some young ass involved 

[Beau Vine 54435]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I suspect that most evangelicals don't get their whacked beliefs from the pulpit so much as the various social things that they're involved with.  And even if they get it from clergy, too, it's probably not from the pulpit.  Evangelicals tend to cling to one another.

My daughter went with her best friend to the Baptist church in Wimberley one time when she was in high school.  And that time the sermon was about how Christians are persecuted for their religious beliefs.  About how the courts didn't allow them to discriminate against gays even though the Bible tells them that homosexuality is a sin.  She came home literally about as mad as I've ever seen her.  I was mega-proud. 

[UpperWestside 6190]

8 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

My daughter went with her best friend to the Baptist church in Wimberley one time when she was in high school.  And that time the sermon was about how Christians are persecuted for their religious beliefs.  About how the courts didn't allow them to discriminate against gays even though the Bible tells them that homosexuality is a sin.  She came home literally about as mad as I've ever seen her.  I was mega-proud. 

Good on you for raising your daughter to know when someone is preaching a message of hatred. I have mentioned this on here before, but I go to church in The Bronx and our pastor is a woman. She is politically-minded and while it is a Baptist church she makes sure it is a progressive one. She said to me before that we do not discriminate on who can walk through those doors as long as she is the pastor. She denies no one from being a member of the church and when we still had in-person services she would pray for Trump. She does not like him in any way, but we still prayed for him. 
 

I wish more pastors had the attitude of acceptance that she has. Kind of a funny story, but last December after service had ended I went to put on a Christmas sweater and it was one that had a quote on the front from the movie Christmas Vacation. The quote had a curse word or two in it and I had my long coat on that covered it up. She asked to read the sweater and she starts laughing at the quote(It was the one about Santa squeezing his fat white ass down the chimney and finding the jolliest group of assholes this side of the nuthouse). I knew I was in the right church at that moment!

[MissingInAction 25195]

They are brain washed from birth to follow authority without question. 

They worship authority in all its forms whether it be a deity, a cop, head of household, or some lard filled gas bag in the white house.

[Captainant 27791]

14 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

My daughter went with her best friend to the Baptist church in Wimberley one time when she was in high school.  And that time the sermon was about how Christians are persecuted for their religious beliefs.  About how the courts didn't allow them to discriminate against gays even though the Bible tells them that homosexuality is a sin.  She came home literally about as mad as I've ever seen her.  I was mega-proud. 

I grew up southern baptist, and it's incredible how central the thesis of "christians are the most persecution religion in America" is to their belief structure

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I grew up southern baptist, and it's incredible how central the thesis of "christians are the most persecution religion in America" is to their belief structure

Perhaps making the central story of Jesus a brutal persecution tale wasn’t the best decision.  

[NWBuck 8587]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Perhaps making the central story of Jesus a brutal persecution tale wasn’t the best decision.  

"Never forget in the story of Jesus, the hero was killed by the state."- RTJ

[NWBuck 8587]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

I grew up southern baptist, and it's incredible how central the thesis of "christians are the most persecution religion in America" is to their belief structure

And the levels of mental gymnastics that they go through to manufacture persecutions... They realize that they are supposed to be salt, light, "in the world but not of the world" and that kind of thing, so they ("we", if I'm honest) see things like wearing masks or not being able to pack into the megachurch that we only go to twice a year anyway as persecution, while sisters and brothers in Christ are being legitimately imprisoned or killed for their faith (not to mention the family members being disenfranchised for their gender and racial identities or choices for spouses).

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 hours ago, NWBuck said:

"Never forget in the story of Jesus, the hero was killed by the state."- RTJ

I recently watched a Frontline documentary on how Jesus became Christ. It tells the early days of the religion from a historian/scholar perspective.  Fascinating stuff.
 

 

something I found interesting:  A significant beef the Roman Empire had with the Jesus movement was how the early Christians wouldn’t participate in the collective sacrifices the populace made to the Emperor.  This was essentially a function of state sponsored capitalism merged with religion b/c the merchants were the ones complaining about the Jesus people to the local government for not buying enough to make sacrifices. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

There are two threads about evangelical Christians, one which specifically mentions the former President so I thought this article might be better placed here. Very thoughtful piece about the intersection of evangelical Christians, specifically white followers, and America at large, addressing not just the pandemic but also the reality of the lives they ignore in their zeal.

Some excerpts:

 

Quote

The more pushback Feucht receives, the more of a martyr he becomes to his followers. With long blond hair and a beard, he’s a white Jesus, nailing himself to the cross of pandemic for the legions of Americans who feel oppressed by the burden of keeping others alive.

Quote

White Christians are always preparing for a future tribulation. But for Americans of color, for women, for trans Americans, for other marginalized people, the tribulation is now. Mass death and violence are here now. And part of this disaster is a direct result of White Christians gathering together in defiance, preaching conspiracy, and not caring who lives or dies as a result.

 

[Mole 4333]

This one hits close to home. I once played a show with Sean Feucht. He was nice enough and put on a good show. Too many of my friends have followed him down the road of whatever it is that he's selling now. They appear to see themselves as some combination of super patriot and persecuted believer. It's some unholy mix of George Washington and Stephen from Acts.

Jesus taught his followers to lay down their lives ("no greater love" and all of that). The pandemic provided probably the greatest opportunity in generations for American Christians to live out the Gospel, but I've seen more and more of the Gospel being replaced by self-worship, cruelty, indifference to suffering, and self-proclaimed persecution.

I'm willing to give a lot of grace in failing to understand a once-in-a-century event. No one really knew what to do or how to act and there's so much unknown, but wrapping selfishness up in the veneer of spirituality while calling selflessness wickedness is a bridge too far. Acting so cruelly and so selfishly under the banner of Christ and then calling opposition to this selfishness wickedness -- wrapping this whole anti-gospel all up in the name of Jesus -- is just too much. It's not surprising, but it's heart-breaking.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

12 minutes ago, Mole said:

This one hits close to home. I once played a show with Sean Feucht. He was nice enough and put on a good show. Too many of my friends have followed him down the road of whatever it is that he's selling now. They appear to see themselves as some combination of super patriot and persecuted believer. It's some unholy mix of George Washington and Stephen from Acts.

Jesus taught his followers to lay down their lives ("no greater love" and all of that). The pandemic provided probably the greatest opportunity in generations for American Christians to live out the Gospel, but I've seen more and more of the Gospel being replaced by self-worship, cruelty, indifference to suffering, and self-proclaimed persecution.

I'm willing to give a lot of grace in failing to understand a once-in-a-century event. No one really knew what to do or how to act and there's so much unknown, but wrapping selfishness up in the veneer of spirituality while calling selflessness wickedness is a bridge too far. Acting so cruelly and so selfishly under the banner of Christ and then calling opposition to this selfishness wickedness -- wrapping this whole anti-gospel all up in the name of Jesus -- is just too much. It's not surprising, but it's heart-breaking.

Very well put. America (or at least the new American version of American religion) has never quite reconciled what to do with Hester Prynne but is sure somehow if they keep throwing stones at her, they'll be redeemed. It's their God given right apparently.

 

[pyrohornIII 4823]

This is shocking, right?

New study links evangelical Christianity to phallic insecurity in the United States

Quote

Phallic insecurity tends to be greater in regions of the United States that have a higher proportion of evangelical Christians, according to new research published in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion. The findings suggest that America’s evangelical subculture perpetuates insecurities about penis size.

For their study, the researchers compared the popularity of Google searches for “male enhancement”, “make penis bigger”, and similar phrases to the adherence rate for evangelical Protestants in each state. They found that as the proportion of evangelicals in a state increased, the relative frequency of Google searches for these “male enhancement” terms also increased.

https://www.psypost.org/2021/04/new-study-links-evangelical-christianity-to-insecurity-60461

[tx 3 putt 77450]

trump was God's test for evangelicals. they failed 

[atomheartbevo 89809]

1 hour ago, pyrohornIII said:

This is shocking, right?

Nope, if you told me evangelicals had tiny dicks, like really tiny, we are talking 6 inches or less, I would not be surprised at all.

[MissingInAction 25195]

Easy with that 6 inches or less talk.

[Willfully Horn 8050]

2 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Easy with that 6 inches or less talk.

That’s his shtick.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Willfully Horn
Spelling

[WhatTheBuck 28801]

2 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

trump was God's test for evangelicals. they failed 

They failed with Reagan, Falwell, Robertson, Graham, Starr, George W. Bush, Palin et al. long before that. 

[tx 3 putt 77450]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

They failed with Reagan, Falwell, Robertson, Graham, Starr, George W. Bush, Palin et al. long before that. 

 

God figured he'd give them a hanging curve ball to prove themselves. Swing and a miss !

[Asithappens 974]

I guess that evangelicals have always worshipped at the altar of ignorance (see Inherit the Wind, great movie). But now it seems that hypocrisy and bigotry are taking the center stage, as well. And they are ok with that b/c they think that's what their god wants.

You can't tell these people anything. 

[atomheartbevo 89809]

9 hours ago, Asithappens said:

I guess that evangelicals have always worshipped at the altar of ignorance (see Inherit the Wind, great movie). But now it seems that hypocrisy and bigotry are taking the center stage, as well. And they are ok with that b/c they think that's what their god wants.

You can't tell these people anything. 

They don't think about God or being a Christian at all when it comes to politics - it's all about team politics owning the libs.

[Gatorubet 30317]

They don't think about God or being a Christian at all when it comes to religion.

fify

[Beau Vine 54435]

 

I don't even know which thread to post this in, other than ALL OF THEM!!!

 

 

[Beau Vine 54435]

HOLD THE PHONE... it's a LTISD school board candidate:

 

[Anastasis 23484]

On 12/2/2020 at 4:38 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I recently watched a Frontline documentary on how Jesus became Christ. It tells the early days of the religion from a historian/scholar perspective.  Fascinating stuff.
 

 

something I found interesting:  A significant beef the Roman Empire had with the Jesus movement was how the early Christians wouldn’t participate in the collective sacrifices the populace made to the Emperor.  This was essentially a function of state sponsored capitalism merged with religion b/c the merchants were the ones complaining about the Jesus people to the local government for not buying enough to make sacrifices. 

LM White was (and I assume still is) a professor at UT.  His Rise of Christianity course was great. 

[Anastasis 23484]

17 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

 

I don't even know which thread to post this in, other than ALL OF THEM!!!

 

 

Cray cray. 

[Orale 1087]

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

LM White was (and I assume still is) a professor at UT.  His Rise of Christianity course was great. 

I took an elective on Christianity in the early 2000's. It was held in the big auditorium in Jester East. If it's the same course you're referring to, it was indeed fascinating and the instructor was very engaging. I realized that semester how little I knew of actual Christian history.  

[Anastasis 23484]

7 minutes ago, Orale said:

I took an elective on Christianity in the early 2000's. It was held in the big auditorium in Jester East. If it's the same course you're referring to, it was indeed fascinating and the instructor was very engaging. I realized that semester how little I knew of actual Christian history.  

We might have been in the same class. 

 

ETA: Just checked my grade report, it was Fall 1999. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Anastasis

[DonkeyCigars 143]

 

[Sbbruin 21894]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

HOLD THE PHONE... it's a LTISD school board candidate:

 

But she's a Christian woman of God.

[gsoda3 3283]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:33 PM, UpperWestside said:

The article asks Christians how to respond to all of this, especially if the people supporting the conspiracy theories go to your church. 
 

You pray for them. That’s it. 

disagree.  when a member of the body of Christ offends you you're supposed to go to them.  when they err in doctrine you're supposed to go to them.  lovingly of course.  when you offend someone you're supposed to do the same.  

On 12/1/2020 at 7:45 PM, formermav43 said:

Almost as bad as his take on Bonhoeffer.

which parts don't you agree with?

[washparkhorn 9939]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

HOLD THE PHONE... it's a LTISD school board candidate:

 

Texas our Texas. All hail the Nutter State.
 

[WhatTheBuck 28801]

48 minutes ago, Orale said:

I took an elective on Christianity in the early 2000's. It was held in the big auditorium in Jester East. If it's the same course you're referring to, it was indeed fascinating and the instructor was very engaging. I realized that semester how little I knew of actual Christian history.  

Almost 2,000 years after the religion was invented. Hundreds of thousands of years after humans evolved from their more primitive ancestors. Was the point ever raised that at least Moses was a Jew and Mohammed was a Muslim? Christianity is unique in the fact that their main prophet was never actually a member of their religion. How crazy is that?

Jester East does sound like the appropriate venue for that class. 

[WhatTheBuck 28801]

3 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

when a member of the body of Christ offends you you're supposed to go to them.  when they err in doctrine you're supposed to go to them.

What does that even mean? Cite the scripture and tell me what “go to them” means in a practical sense. If I’m a medieval Catholic and I burn a Protestant leader at the stake, did I “go to them?” (Lovingly, of course.)

['stache 21879]

Meh, I just don't care anymore. Religion as a major driver in society is going to die off with the olds. Yeah, there will still be churches and people who attend and believe this crap, but it is fading fast among the younger generations, and the political power held by these groups will diminish substantially, if not entirely. I don't associate with people like this, I'm sure some of my acquaintances are into this nonsense, but we don't talk about it, and if it came up I'm 100% less likely to ever follow up with that person, because I truly believe that people like this are bad people. I don't care about niceties on the surface, or giving money or time to your church's chosen causes, the base of this type of thinking is cruel and hateful, no matter how they try to dress it up as something different. 

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

3 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

HOLD THE PHONE... it's a LTISD school board candidate:

 

She fucked around and found out.....