To__ Orlan_o - _efensive Coor_inator

[Viper 12112]

seemed to be backed up by one of the explayers on twitter that mentioned they always taught them to hit and didn't bother teaching to tackle. would explain all the injuries

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

12 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

Did any one else catch Orlando saying in this week's presser that the proper way to tackle is to put your shoulder into the other guy? What about the wrapping up part? We have seen plenty of shoulder tackles that don't stop jack shit this year. Now we know from the horses mouth why it is happening so often.

Maybe the question was phrased as “what’s the best way to make sure your DBs keep getting stingers?”

[DanTheHorn 4966]

8 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Scipio has been harping on this for a while.  He claims the staff does not teach/reinforce proper tackling fundamentals.  

One would think kids know by now but I have seen a team go from being very sure tacklers under one coaching staff to sucking as tacklers under another in a period of a few months. Tackling in my view is like math you have to do it properly everyday to keep it sharp.

Edited October 25, 2019 by DanTheHorn

[Treefidy 1469]

Back in the stone ages we were taught that the first guy form tackles and the second guy puts his hat on the ball to knock it loose.  

They are skipping the form tackle and move straight to try to cause a turnover with the current targeting rules modifying to shoulder instead of hat.  

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119]

The DBU shirts this year, of all years, is unbelievably embarrassing at this point. 

[Llewelyn Moss 210]

1 hour ago, bschoolprof said:

Scipio has been harping on this for a while.  He claims the staff does not teach/reinforce proper tackling fundamentals.  

He has said he doesn’t have inside/exact knowledge of how they’re teaching. He bases it on the [entirely reasonable] inference from the rash of identical DB stinger/shoulder/arm injuries. And a tweet from PJ Locke this season saying they were taught to launch like a missile. 
 

So Scip is right, however he’s arriving at his conclusions—whatever they’re being taught ain’t working. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Llewelyn Moss

[Dbeasy 15092]

Did any one else catch Orlando saying in this week's presser that the proper way to tackle is to put your shoulder into the other guy? What about the wrapping up part? We have seen plenty of shoulder tackles that don't stop jack shit this year. Now we know from the horses mouth why it is happening so often.

No no no. You’re confused. He was talking about that technique for this guy:

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 hour ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

Without a huge talent advantage, GDGD was exposed in 2010 and at Iowa. Likewise, Watson did well with 2001 Colorado pushing our shit in with an awesome oline and stable of running backs and with Teddy Bridgewater against AAC competition.

Note, I’d still take GDGD over Watson. Im just saying their differences are mostly amplified by circumstance.

 

That game is consistently misremembered. CU only had like 330 yards of offense, scored on defense and was gifted extra possessions by our turnovers and Dak Pearson getting mindless on punt. 

They won. We flat gifted it then. 

[bschoolprof 6272]

1 hour ago, DanTheHorn said:

One would think kids know by now but I have seen a team go from being very sure tacklers under one coaching staff to sucking as tacklers under another in a period of a few months. Tackling in my view is like math you have to do it properly everyday to keep it sharp.

Yep - I liken it to infield practice for baseball players.  All players at a competitive level know the basics of fielding.  But it needs to be reinforced constantly.  If you never work on it as a team, there will be lots of errors.  That's on the coaches.  

[Augustus 3061]

Poor tackling form/effort is by far the most baffling thing to me about today's college game.

It just doesn't get any more fundamental than proper tackling technique.

But in every game you see kids totally disregarding every aspect of it.

Which means it simply isn't being taught/practiced.

I'll never get it.

[Auto Driller 2506]

So Mack was right? It's an epidemic?

[Augustus 3061]

1 minute ago, Auto Driller said:

So Mack was right? It's an epidemic?

On a Walking Dead scale.

[Gene Parmesan 4014]

Poor tackling is an NFL issue as well.  I think it's just limited practices and limited contact in those practices. 

[Valmy77 13273]

55 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

The DBU shirts this year, of all years, is unbelievably embarrassing at this point. 

Not really. The DBU stuff is not anything officially done by the school nor is it anything the fans really get into.

[Eskimohorn 5642]

Watson never covered the spread with Bridgewater at QB and also managed 7 points with that same CU team earlier that season.

Between 1980-2010, only one Texas team was ever shut out. Greg Davis’s offense against OU, with two of the greatest offensive players in Texas history.

Again, let’s not say Greg Davis was not a beneficiary of circumstances. He’s better than Watson but not light years. His stench lingered for years since he left the cupboard bare at every position going into 2011, especially QB where Harsin relied on Ash/Case McCoy.

[Eskimohorn 5642]

That game is consistently misremembered. CU only had like 330 yards of offense, scored on defense and was gifted extra possessions by our turnovers and Dak Pearson getting mindless on punt. 
They won. We flat gifted it then. 

CU ran for 223 yards and had 4 rushing TDs. That season they got much better towards the end. The Texas D had trouble as well and Phillip Geigger ran into the punter.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

20 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

CU ran for 223 yards and had 4 rushing TDs. That season they got much better towards the end. The Texas D had trouble as well and Phillip Geigger ran into the punter.

 

Yes. They had 223 yards rushing after we gifted them extra possessions through turnovers etc.  it’s not like we couldn’t stop them all game. We couldn’t stop from turning the ball over. 

[Huckleberry 33096]

1 hour ago, Augustus said:

Poor tackling form/effort is by far the most baffling thing to me about today's college game.

It just doesn't get any more fundamental than proper tackling technique.

But in every game you see kids totally disregarding every aspect of it.

Which means it simply isn't being taught/practiced.

I'll never get it.

It's even worse than just bad tackling meaning your team does poorly. We have had a rash of guys putting their eyes down and leading into a big hit with the top of their head. We've been lucky so far that stingers and shoulder problems are the issues we're dealing with. We're going to have somebody break their neck if this shit doesn't get fixed. Playing better football is one thing, but this is actually a bigger and more important deal than just that.

[HornsOverIthaca 2335]

1 hour ago, Augustus said:

On a Walking Dead scale.

I’ve seen walkers do better swarm tackling.

[American Swindle 102]

Orlando needs to teach em' what we teach our 5th graders, jeebus

 

 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119]

1 hour ago, Valmy77 said:

Not really. The DBU stuff is not anything officially done by the school nor is it anything the fans really get into.

Good to know the actions of football players, while on the field, on game day, can’t embarrass the football team in any way.

[bschoolprof 6272]

On his podcast, Scipio contrasted our (apparent) tackling philosophy with that of Grinch at OU, who has said publicly he does not want his defenders trying to launch themselves at the ball carrier - the primary goal is to get they guy on the ground, not make a big hit.  He wants his guys physical in getting off blocks, but under control when tackling.  

[Hard Times 302]

14 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

Orlando needs to teach em' what we teach our 5th graders, jeebus

 

 

Overshown was textbook on his solo tackle against Kansas, and he's one of the youngest, least experienced guys out there. Are our guys being untaught what they learned in HS by Orlano?

[Rhinotx 500]

10 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

On his podcast, Scipio contrasted our (apparent) tackling philosophy with that of Grinch at OU, who has said publicly he does not want his defenders trying to launch themselves at the ball carrier - the primary goal is to get they guy on the ground, not make a big hit.  He wants his guys physical in getting off blocks, but under control when tackling.  

Big hits get on ESPN and occasionally a fumble but the cost is missed tackles and injuries.

[Ricky Butler 2732]

15 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

On his podcast, Scipio contrasted our (apparent) tackling philosophy with that of Grinch at OU, who has said publicly he does not want his defenders trying to launch themselves at the ball carrier - the primary goal is to get they guy on the ground, not make a big hit.  He wants his guys physical in getting off blocks, but under control when tackling.  

I listened to that as well. Thoughts on Orlando not wanting to build out the support staff on defense like we did on offense? It seems indefensible. (sorry for that) If Herman and Beck can take input from Fedora and Coleman, WTF Todd?

[NeverMarryAStripper 21921]

28 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

Good to know the actions of football players, while on the field, on game day, can’t embarrass the football team in any way.

I don't think he was talking about the KU game

[Valmy77 13273]

27 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

Good to know the actions of football players, while on the field, on game day, can’t embarrass the football team in any way.

Ok you never specified who was supposed to be embarrassed. I thought you meant it was embarrassing for us. You never said who so I got confused.

But it certainly is embarrassing for our defensive backs.

[DixonHur 11375]

26 minutes ago, Hard Times said:

Overshown was textbook on his solo tackle against Kansas, and he's one of the youngest, least experienced guys out there. Are our guys being untaught what they learned in HS by Orlano?

Yes.  That's the only explanation I can think of for why our defensive players seem to play their best as true freshmen.

[Augustus 3061]

44 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

On his podcast, Scipio contrasted our (apparent) tackling philosophy with that of Grinch at OU, who has said publicly he does not want his defenders trying to launch themselves at the ball carrier - the primary goal is to get they guy on the ground, not make a big hit.  He wants his guys physical in getting off blocks, but under control when tackling.  

Don't know if most notice this, but the number of defenders that get so easily juked out of their shoes today is significantly higher than it was many years ago.

And it comes right down to breaking down correctly and executing a solid form tackle, instead of going for the launch/sportscenter hit.

[HornsOverIthaca 2335]

The people I knew who unlearned the most stuff in college did it by drinking a lot of fluids and getting plenty of rest.  Then college went away.

[Augustus 3061]

I really don't understand why guys like Bill Snyder are the exception and not the rule.

It's just so painfully simple.

Execution, fundamentals, no penalties.

 

[Walden Ponderer 12639]

1 minute ago, Augustus said:

I really don't understand why guys like Bill Snyder are the exception and not the rule.

It's just so painfully simple.

Execution, fundamentals, no penalties.

Klieman appears to be in the same mould. Maybe the secret is to come from the most boring places, and dress poorly.

[Augustus 3061]

3 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Klieman appears to be in the same mould. Maybe the secret is to come from the most boring places, and dress poorly.

Hadn't thought of that. You might be onto something.

[bschoolprof 6272]

49 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

I listened to that as well. Thoughts on Orlando not wanting to build out the support staff on defense like we did on offense? It seems indefensible. (sorry for that) If Herman and Beck can take input from Fedora and Coleman, WTF Todd?

Yes, I thought that was troubling as well.  I assumed the lack of defensive analysts was due to Herman just not having his eye on the ball with respect to defense and caring more about offense.  If it's really due to Orlando overtly expressing an aversion to independent criticism/feedback, and Herman acquiescing to this, then holy shit that's an indictment of both of them.  

[hayden_horn 11365]

hey guys, this is a radical idea, i know, but what if orlando would have his linebackers MUG? 

will that work?

[Jkwellborn 6741]

I thought he was talking leaping to grab the legs and roll.

[shakahorn 1645]

12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

hey guys, this is a radical idea, i know, but what if orlando would have his linebackers MUG? 

will that work?

<triggered>

[Post Oak 20272]

1 hour ago, bschoolprof said:

On his podcast, Scipio contrasted our (apparent) tackling philosophy with that of Grinch at OU, who has said publicly he does not want his defenders trying to launch themselves at the ball carrier - the primary goal is to get they guy on the ground, not make a big hit.  He wants his guys physical in getting off blocks, but under control when tackling.  

Big hits are the most overrated thing in football.  

 

[dcar00 14365]

16 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

hey guys, this is a radical idea, i know, but what if orlando would have his linebackers MUG? 

will that work?

maybe but I will be pissed and stunned if we do.

[hayden_horn 11365]

Just now, Post Oak said:

Big hits are the most overrated thing in football.  

 

Alligator rolls for the win, right?

[Augustus 3061]

Just now, hayden_horn said:

Alligator rolls for the win, right?

It works pretty damned well for alligators.

[Augustus 3061]

My personal preference is the lion/leopard/cheetah technique.

Come up behind, swat their ass/legs out from under them, then break their necks.

[Guest Lobo]

Has a defensive coordinator ever earned $300 for every yard his defense gave up over a 13-game season?   Because That’s the kinda bank this all star is heading towards.  It’s impossible we’re this gullible.  

Edited October 25, 2019 by Lobo

[JBJ 3665]

3 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Poor tackling is an NFL issue as well.  I think it's just limited practices and limited contact in those practices. 

Rule changes as well.  Football is inconsistent in how collision rules are enforced against a tackler and ball carrier. 

Rugby tackling is fun and all, but not when the ball carrier is allowed to knock the piss out of you.  Imagine rugby being played like this and then complaining about a tackling epidemic:

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

1 hour ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Klieman appears to be in the same mould. Maybe the secret is to come from the most boring places, and dress poorly.

Hey man, there's nothing to do in Kansas except practice form tackling, punt fair catching  and working on snap counts.

[Jkwellborn 6741]

Big hits are the most overrated thing in football.  
 

Not really.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

hey guys, this is a radical idea, i know, but what if orlando would have his linebackers MUG? 

will that work?

Might cut down on injuries if the guys are running into brick walls from 1 yard away versus 10.

[Llewelyn Moss 210]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

The Locke quote also seems to match up with some things the coaching staff has said.  I forget if it was Herman or Orlando, but in one of the press conferences they talked about how we were missing tackles because our guys were “throwing” too early and therefore not generating enough power on impact.

That is what you say if you’re teaching guys to launch for hits and not make a traditional tackle.  Head up, wrap with your arms, and run through the impact doesn’t seem to be the plan.

The traditional tackle, or what I was taught 20 years ago, isn’t necessarily best practice anymore, I don’t believe. With Carroll and the Seahawks, we know they introduced the rugby-style tackling. And the last two years, Texas had some of the better tackling in the Big 12.

I don’t really have a point except to say that “breaking down” doesn’t really work anymore, especially as offenses design ways to get shifty fast dudes in space. You have to be aggressive. Breaking down in the open field just gives guys a two-way go, which is a death sentence. But as an alternative—again, whatever is being taught to the defense isn’t working this year. 
 

I will add, though, that the DBs have often avoided missed tackles this year by also taking bad angles, which is good of them. 

[TXpride 550]

Doesn't Call have a designated tackling coach? Their defense has been solid under Wilcox. Replacing one of our two WR coaches and/or Warehime with someone who can teach propper tackling technique might be beneficial (in addition to firing Orlando, of course).

[gmr548 16616]

I don't want to take away from the bashing of how the staff teaches, or doesn't teach, tackling because I agree with it. But when it comes to tackling being worse across the sport, I think two things are largely to blame:

1.) Modern offenses place a much bigger emphasis on both getting their guys the ball in space, often with numbers advantages, and creating assignment/ positioning conflicts for defenders. It's a lot harder to tackle Devin Duvernay once he gets going on the perimeter and can cut any way he wants than it is to tackle some tailback in the box out of the I. Similarly, if a slant freezes a LB on a RPO, they aren't bringing nearly as much momentum if/when they meet the RB in the box. They are just trying to recover and get to the spot at all.

2.) As the game has evolved and gotten more pass heavy, more DBs are involved in making first contact. This is both because defenses are playing more DBs and, with the ball going to the perimeter or downfield more often, DBs are the ones there. DBs are not as good of tacklers as LBs, not much else to that.

I do think there's probably something to the less physical practice thing but I also think it's both overblown by fat old dudes and a net positive for the game in terms of health/safety.

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