To__ Orlan_o - _efensive Coor_inator

[ruitxn 298]

17 hours ago, Js1 said:

 

Great. You might fill in great at Mt. Vernon next year.

Edited November 7, 2019 by ruitxn

[Tex Long 4401]

1 minute ago, ruitxn said:

 

Tell it again.

[6th Street 6413]

Man I bet KSU can't wait to light up that Orlando defense. Probably know every single call before the snap too. 

[Eskimohorn 5635]

3-2-7 can pay off against big12 offenses. A healthy BJ Foster, Caden Sterns, Chris Brown and Overshown could serve as enforcers and allow for multiple looks, allow Brandon Jones to makes plays, and Jalen Green, Cook, and Jameson to grow into their corner roles. Ossai could roam around and wreak havoc.

Well that scenario is long gone. None of those guys are healthy enough. And our linebackers arent good. We needed to go 4-down and allow our line to make the plays and take pressure off the secondary for run contain.

[Ghost of Shag 2614]

4 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

3-2-7 can pay off against big12 offenses. A healthy BJ Foster, Caden Sterns, Chris Brown and Overshown could serve as enforcers and allow for multiple looks, allow Brandon Jones to makes plays, and Jalen Green, Cook, and Jameson to grow into their corner roles. Ossai could roam around and wreak havoc.

Well that scenario is long gone. None of those guys are healthy enough. And our linebackers arent good. We needed to go 4-down and allow our line to make the plays and take pressure off the secondary for run contain.

So we should play 12, you say?

Orlando still couldn’t scheme that to our advantage.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Ghost of Shag

[DixonHur 11339]

The 3-man front isn't the issue...lots of teams have success with it.  The problem is what he has them doing at the snap.  Dropping your best rusher into coverage while blitzing people from 15 yards off the LOS is not sound football.  We end up with too few people in coverage and zero pass rush, so you're asking inexperienced players to cover a spread offense for 4+ seconds.  

[Dbeasy 15068]

The British High Command still has an unshakable faith in the Dunkirk battle plan. “ Can’t make changes out of panic. Eventually what's going to end up happening is these soldiers are going to show up and kill huge.”

[Dbeasy 15068]

The British High Command still has an unshakable faith in the Dunkirk battle plan. “ Can’t make changes out of panic. Eventually what's going to end up happening is these soldiers are going to show up and kill huge.”

[SA-KC_Horn 1295]

Fuck you Todd.

Get your mind right. 

[George Clooney 378]

22 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Man I bet KSU can't wait to light up that Orlando defense. Probably know every single call before the snap too. 

Yeah most of the QBs we’ve played this year know what’s coming in most situations, especially third and long. Burrow straight up said he knew we’d play zero coverage on 3rd and 17, so he just had to elude one of the extra rushers long enough to where Jefferson would be open.

[FloridaHorn 4766]

17 hours ago, Js1 said:

 

This is Orlando doubling down. My guess is his dumbass thinks the kids will rise to the challenge, but he is an idiot for thinking so. Being stubborn can win you some fights, but it will get you knocked the fuck out a few times also.

[hookem48 4700]

16 hours ago, Pimphand said:

Coaches who try to fit players to their scheme rather than the scheme to fit the players are typically dogshit

Name the coaches who don't recruit players for their scheme

[Fondren & Main 6725]

1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

The 3-man front isn't the issue...lots of teams have success with it.  The problem is what he has them doing at the snap.  Dropping your best rusher into coverage while blitzing people from 15 yards off the LOS is not sound football.  We end up with too few people in coverage and zero pass rush, so you're asking inexperienced players to cover a spread offense for 4+ seconds.  

I agree with this.  NO MORE WACO BLITZES!

[horngasm2020 116]

welp the good news is Mensa will be gone quicker than I thought.

[General Specific 3262]

Or I don’t know Todd, order the 0 Blitzes from Amazon Prime today and the package will at least get to DKR on time!

 

That would be better than what we are doing now!!! /s

[Horn80 6129]

19 hours ago, Js1 said:

 

Show him the door.  Show him the door.

[Js1 85408]

50 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

Name the coaches who don't recruit players for their scheme

Shouldn't you scheme around who you have when you come into a new job while you work on recruiting your guys for your scheme?  Or, I dunno, scheme for a conference of real athletes and offenses and not G5 chumps? 

[Paper_jam 831]

21 hours ago, Js1 said:

 

[Longboard Horn 40333]

Change up the defense. This 3-4 set isn’t working. At least a 4-2-5 would be more effective, efficient and fun to work with. 

[HtownHorn 14724]

4 hours ago, hookem48 said:

Name the coaches who don't recruit players for their scheme

If that's the case then Texas should be recruiting 3x350LB DL and quick and athletic LBs. They are doing neither.

[hookem48 4700]

3 hours ago, Js1 said:

Shouldn't you scheme around who you have when you come into a new job while you work on recruiting your guys for your scheme?  Or, I dunno, scheme for a conference of real athletes and offenses and not G5 chumps? 

Who the fuck doesn't start implementing their scheme immediately? (it's why they were hired)What do you think a coach is going to do, wait 3 years before they implement their system? Recruiting the fuck out of the top DBs in the country isn't recruiting for the Big 12?  I get it, we all hate what's going on right now and no one hates the 3 man line more than me but you guys are just talking fucking stupid now. 

[gmr548 16580]

Change up the defense. This 3-4 set isn’t working. At least a 4-2-5 would be more effective, efficient and fun to work with. 

Texas doesn't run a 3-4.

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[gmr548 16580]

I'm not defending Orlando at all but three down vs four down is a meaningless debate. The four down look would be the same DL that's out there now with Ossai lined up wide as the fourth DL. Whether or not he puts a hand on the ground doesn't matter - 3 DL with Ossai at B backer is functionally the same thing if you utilize him in the mold of a typical three-down rush LB.

The problem is the utilization of Ossai and the pressure that puts on the DBs when you ask them to

1.) Cover B12 receivers without sending your best pass rusher at the QB, and;

2.) Fill the void left in the pass rush by sending multiple DBs, thereby giving the offense a more favorable position in terms of both simple numbers and personnel in coverage.

Ossai should be playing the edge on the vast majority of snaps. A 3-2-6 with Ossai on the edge, Mitchell/Dele at the middle LB, and some extra run support and occasional pressure from the NB and Joker spots could contain the run and be functional against the pass. Orlando makes defense much harder than it should be.

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[Dbeasy 15068]

I'm not defending Orlando at all but three down vs four down is a meaningless debate. The four down look would be the same DL that's out there now with Ossai lined up wide as the fourth DL. Whether or not he puts a hand on the ground doesn't matter - 3 DL with Ossai at B backer is functionally the same thing if you utilize him in the mold of a typical three-down rush LB.

The problem is the utilization of Ossai and the pressure that puts on the DBs when you ask them to

1.) Cover B12 receivers without sending your best pass rusher at the QB, and;

2.) Fill the void left in the pass rush by sending multiple DBs, thereby giving the offense a more favorable position in terms of both simple numbers and personnel in coverage.

Ossai should be playing the edge on the vast majority of snaps. A 3-2-6 with Ossai on the edge, Mitchell/Dele at the middle LB, and some extra run support and occasional pressure from the NB and Joker spots could contain the run and be functional against the pass. Orlando makes defense much harder than it should be.

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I’ve been typing the same comment in surly this entire season. The issue is not 3 man vs 4 man, it’s utilizing a 4 man rush more consistently with Ossai as that fourth person. They can mix in dB or lb blitzes or the occasional fourth man coming from those positions, but if you actually chart the number of plays where they bring the two de’s, the DT and Ossai, it’s a fairly small percentage of snaps. It should be much much higher. If they would just do that more of the time and then mix in exotics, they would be much better.

Why is it important to rush Ossai more often? He has the size to beat OL and get to the QB, along with the other three DL. When you bring LB’s and CB’s as the fourth rushers, you are relying on confusion as the basis for getting to the QB. They aren’t goi g to overpower an OL. Right now, opposing teams just sit back with their five OL and wait for Texas to either rush three, which is a disaster, or rush three with a CB or LB, and they get caught up at the line, or rush too late. This is really elementary stuff and that’s what scares me about Orlando. It’s like he doesn’t get the basics and gets lost in the gadgetry.

[JBJ 3655]

Ossai's not our best pass rusher.  He's the third best as a LB and there's a couple safeties better as well.  This is a bizzare myth that some $995er fabricated out of thin air, and people parrot on this board.  Stop listening to Howe for football insight.

He belongs in coverage because that's what he is actually good at.

Edited November 8, 2019 by JBJ

[ClubWhatever 12145]

We have a bunch of G5 coaches.  What else can you say. 

[dcar00 14269]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

I'm not defending Orlando at all but three down vs four down is a meaningless debate. The four down look would be the same DL that's out there now with Ossai lined up wide as the fourth DL. Whether or not he puts a hand on the ground doesn't matter - 3 DL with Ossai at B backer is functionally the same thing if you utilize him in the mold of a typical three-down rush LB.

The problem is the utilization of Ossai and the pressure that puts on the DBs when you ask them to

1.) Cover B12 receivers without sending your best pass rusher at the QB, and;

2.) Fill the void left in the pass rush by sending multiple DBs, thereby giving the offense a more favorable position in terms of both simple numbers and personnel in coverage.

Ossai should be playing the edge on the vast majority of snaps. A 3-2-6 with Ossai on the edge, Mitchell/Dele at the middle LB, and some extra run support and occasional pressure from the NB and Joker spots could contain the run and be functional against the pass. Orlando makes defense much harder than it should be.

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3 tite is the problem.  3 tite is different than a 3-4 or 3-3 or 3-2.  we don't have the skill to run this 3 tite when teams attack the edge.  adjust.

Edited November 8, 2019 by dcar00

[Dbeasy 15068]

Ossai's not our best pass rusher.  He's the third best as a LB and there's a couple safeties better as well.  This is a bizzare myth that some $995er fabricated out of thin air, and people parrot on this board.  Stop listening to Howe for football insight.
He belongs in coverage because that's what he is actually good at.

This is such a bizarre comment I don’t even know where to start. No one said Ossai was our best rusher. Arguing a safety is a better pass rusher than a larger lineman/lb makes no sense. It’s comparing apples to oranges. I’ve never heard Howe ever on any topic. Obviously you have. He is absolutely not best in coverage. He is large and heavy, not small and fast. Your entire take on the situation is 100% wrong.

[gmr548 16580]

3 tite is the problem.  3 tite is different than a 3-4 or 3-3 or 3-2.  we don't have the skill to run this 3 tite when teams attack the edge.  adjust.

Texas has proven it can take away the inside run using three players. That's a W from a schematic standpoint. You should have the numbers to effectively set the edge.

If the back 8(!) can't properly set the edge and contain opponents outside running game, moving one or both of the DEs out to a 5 tech and having them do it just opens you up to getting gashed inside, because the second and third level are not going to play inside runs with any better fundamentals.

Now, the unsound play vs the run is absolutely on the coaches, but it isn't an alignment issue.





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[El Squared 1802]

So if it’s not an alignment issue, but a “ fundamental “ issue, who is responsible.?

Going out on a limb here, but 8 games into the season, the fucking $1.7 mil DC , DOHrlando, should shoulder at least part of the blame.Did he watch any of the games or just squint when the D was on the field.

Ridiculous, even without the embarrassingly pathetic national stats which there really isn’t an excuse or rationalization for.

Edited November 8, 2019 by El Squared

[bschoolprof 6263]

13 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Now, the unsound play vs the run is absolutely on the coaches, but it isn't an alignment issue.
 

Go back and watch OU's outside runs in the 2nd half of that game and reassess.  

Edited November 8, 2019 by bschoolprof

[JBJ 3655]

22 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

He is large and heavy, not small and fast. Your entire take on the situation is 100% wrong.

 

You don't watch him play.  I don't care if he is ten feet tall and developed a vengeful hate for QBs after one killed his parents made him watch as his sister was raped.  He covers way better than he rushes.

[Jkwellborn 6708]

because the second and third level are not going to play inside runs with any better fundamentals.

In reality, this coaching staff probably can’t teach for shit. A real one though? Sure, spread them out a little to make it harder to get to the edge.

[Dbeasy 15068]

You don't watch him play.  I don't care if he is ten feet tall and developed a vengeful hate for QBs after one killed his parents made him watch as his sister was raped.  He covers way better than he rushes.

 

Well, you do raise a fair question. His rushing of the QB, when he does rush, hasn’t been great. Typically that fourth rusher is a little bigger than Ossai. The BBacker in this defense is by definition a tweener, a little smaller than a typical DE and a little slower than an outside LB. I love Ossai. He was my favorite recruit in his class. Yet, right now he’s a little too slow to hang with receivers in coverage but not quite big enough to deliver a consistent rush. That seems like a personnel usage issue that falls right on Orlando. Where do you put a guy like Ossai but still get consistent QB pressure. Right now we are failing at both coverage and pressure.

[gmr548 16580]

Go back and watch OU's outside runs in the 2nd half of that game and reassess.  

Yeah, poor phrasing. I was speaking to the alignment of the DL specifically.

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[gmr548 16580]

So if it’s not an alignment issue, but a “ fundamental “ issue, who is responsible.?
Going out on a limb here, but 8 games into the season, the fucking $1.7 mil DC , DOHrlando, should shoulder at least part of the blame.Did he watch any of the games or just squint when the D was on the field.
Ridiculous, even without the embarrassingly pathetic national stats which there really isn’t an excuse or rationalization for.

Oh I'm not defending him. It's absolutely on the DC. I was just addressing the folks that think a 4DL alignment or even just splitting the existing 3 DL wider is the answer.

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[dcar00 14269]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

Texas has proven it can take away the inside run using three players. That's a W from a schematic standpoint. You should have the numbers to effectively set the edge.

If the back 8(!) can't properly set the edge and contain opponents outside running game, moving one or both of the DEs out to a 5 tech and having them do it just opens you up to getting gashed inside, because the second and third level are not going to play inside runs with any better fundamentals.

Now, the unsound play vs the run is absolutely on the coaches, but it isn't an alignment issue.





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yes I know.  I'm not sure what your point is as it relates to what I said.

[Fondren & Main 6725]

54 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

Well, you do raise a fair question. His rushing of the QB, when he does rush, hasn’t been great. Typically that fourth rusher is a little bigger than Ossai. The BBacker in this defense is by definition a tweener, a little smaller than a typical DE and a little slower than an outside LB. I love Ossai. He was my favorite recruit in his class. Yet, right now he’s a little too slow to hang with receivers in coverage but not quite big enough to deliver a consistent rush. That seems like a personnel usage issue that falls right on Orlando. Where do you put a guy like Ossai but still get consistent QB pressure. Right now we are failing at both coverage and pressure.

He seems comparable to K’Lavon to me.  I’m also pretty sure that Derrick Johnson couldn’t cover CeeDee fucking Lamb.

[CurlyDumps 4476]

Guys. The scheme is sound.

[Jkwellborn 6708]

He seems comparable to K’Lavon to me.  I’m also pretty sure that Derrick Johnson couldn’t cover CeeDee fucking Lamb.

Derrick Thomas couldn’t cover CeeDee Lamb.

[Victor Lazlo 1777]

9 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Guys. The scheme is sound.

[GotThatFire 166]

 All those injuries to our last line of defense was a season killer. Just let it go 

[EastTexan 662]

9 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

 

Well, you do raise a fair question. His rushing of the QB, when he does rush, hasn’t been great. Typically that fourth rusher is a little bigger than Ossai. The BBacker in this defense is by definition a tweener, a little smaller than a typical DE and a little slower than an outside LB. I love Ossai. He was my favorite recruit in his class. Yet, right now he’s a little too slow to hang with receivers in coverage but not quite big enough to deliver a consistent rush. That seems like a personnel usage issue that falls right on Orlando. Where do you put a guy like Ossai but still get consistent QB pressure. Right now we are failing at both coverage and pressure.

I'm sure Orlando has tinkered with position of different players to get the best alignments and combinations. (Actually not really certain he has done this) 

Shit like this is done in spring and summer 2adays.

 I ain't seeing it.

 

[LTtxfan 49249]

9 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Guys. The scheme is sound.

 

      Not sound the way Orlando is calling plays...

[Jkwellborn 6708]

 All those injuries to our last line of defense was a season killer. Just let it go 

No, the last line of defense has been a season killer.

[Dbeasy 15068]

He seems comparable to K’Lavon to me.  I’m also pretty sure that Derrick Johnson couldn’t cover CeeDee fucking Lamb.

This is what has me so confused. All these programs by definition use guys like Ossai and K’Lavon in that BBacker role. Ossai is the perfect guy for that role. Yet I can’t figure out how some defenses are using it effectively but we struggle.

Johnson played MLB in college where the extra size worked to his advantage in plugging the middle. The MLB does get exposed quite as often in coverage either.

[Fondren & Main 6725]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

 

This is what has me so confused. All these programs by definition use guys like Ossai and K’Lavon in that BBacker role. Ossai is the perfect guy for that role. Yet I can’t figure out how some defenses are using it effectively but we struggle.

Johnson played MLB in college where the extra size worked to his advantage in plugging the middle. The MLB does get exposed quite as often in coverage either.

 

DJ played Will not Mike.  And Orlando is a dumbass.  You may be remembering Aaron Harris as the stud Mike.

[Burt Macklin 19038]

14 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

If that's the case then Texas should be recruiting 3x350LB DL and quick and athletic LBs. They are doing neither.

You don't want 3 350LB DL in our scheme.  We've been targeting the right guys to our system. Our ability to actually sign them has been a different story.  You want a big nose and then 2 DEs who ideally are big enough to play the run but also athletic enough to get to the passer. Bama's last 3 1st round DL are Quennin Williams (6'3, 300), Da'Ron Payne (320 lbs) and Jonathan Allen (6'3, 300 lbs).  That's pretty much the ideal 3 down lineman for the 3 tite.  We have Coburn as the clear NT with guys like Sweat and Ojomo behind him. Then we've been recruiting guys like Leal, Collins, Broughton, etc. the last two years at DE. Ojomo has the versatility to play all 3 spots but those are all ideal 3 tite DL that would be stout against the run and rush the passer. 

Orlando's recruiting has been shoddy due to lack of offers, but when he does identify targets, it's been guys like Gary Johnson, Floyd, Gbenda and Tillman who are all great fits for LBs in our scheme.  Identifying the right type of guys to recruit to our scheme has not been the issue.

13 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

 

I’ve been typing the same comment in surly this entire season. The issue is not 3 man vs 4 man, it’s utilizing a 4 man rush more consistently with Ossai as that fourth person. They can mix in dB or lb blitzes or the occasional fourth man coming from those positions, but if you actually chart the number of plays where they bring the two de’s, the DT and Ossai, it’s a fairly small percentage of snaps. It should be much much higher. If they would just do that more of the time and then mix in exotics, they would be much better.

Why is it important to rush Ossai more often? He has the size to beat OL and get to the QB, along with the other three DL. When you bring LB’s and CB’s as the fourth rushers, you are relying on confusion as the basis for getting to the QB. They aren’t goi g to overpower an OL. Right now, opposing teams just sit back with their five OL and wait for Texas to either rush three, which is a disaster, or rush three with a CB or LB, and they get caught up at the line, or rush too late. This is really elementary stuff and that’s what scares me about Orlando. It’s like he doesn’t get the basics and gets lost in the gadgetry.

 

We definitely need to correctly use our B-backer more and it would help things, but we don't have the guys ready to play to have a good pass rush no matter what. Utilizing Ossai more would help, but neither he nor anyone else on our defense are great pass rushers, so we'd still have a lot of issues even using a 4 man rush. Orlando did use Ossai more as a rusher against TCU and we still got very little pass rush.  We have no one from the 2015 -17 classes that can be effective as an outside rusher, so while simplifying the defense and bringing 4 more would help, we'd still have quite a bit of trouble.

13 hours ago, JBJ said:

Ossai's not our best pass rusher.  He's the third best as a LB and there's a couple safeties better as well.  This is a bizzare myth that some $995er fabricated out of thin air, and people parrot on this board.  Stop listening to Howe for football insight.

He belongs in coverage because that's what he is actually good at.

This is pretty over the top.  Ossai showed promise as a rusher in 2018. He's not a 10 sack per year guy right now, but he probably is our best rusher by default. He's definitely the best pass rushing LB we have.  Mitchell being a good situational blitzer is not the same as a being a good pass rusher.

The other problem is that Ossai's usage doesn't allow him to grow as a pass rusher. He hasn't been getting the reps all offseason or this season to improve as a rusher. He probably is our best off ball LB right now, but that doesn't mean that's his best usage long-term. 

12 hours ago, dcar00 said:

3 tite is the problem.  3 tite is different than a 3-4 or 3-3 or 3-2.  we don't have the skill to run this 3 tite when teams attack the edge.  adjust.

This isn't true at all. We have the skill to run the 3 tite, and it actually fits our personnel quite well if Orlando was doing a better job with the scheme/coaching.  Our deficiencies on the edge are due to schematic choices by Orlando/poorly coached defenders, not a lack of skill. When healthy, having guys like Ossai and BJ Foster to man the C gaps while safeties like Chris Thompson or Brandon Jones play downhill is pretty much ideal and safety being the strength of our team (again, when healthy) fits the 3 tite well.

12 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

Go back and watch OU's outside runs in the 2nd half of that game and reassess.  

It's still a combo of alignment and coaching. In the two runs you posted from the 4th quarter of the OU game, one was alignment but it was also on a counter play so they got to the weak side with extra men, which OU does to a lot of teams.  The other play was Brandon Jones playing Nickel while the run went straight to him in the C gap. For a reason I still can't figure out at all, he decided to move inside and go after the lead blocker who otherwise would have been taken by the pursuing ILB while Jones is completely unblocked to stop the runner for a minimal gain.  

The alignment does seem to be getting worse lately. The last 2 and a half weeks, Orlando has been aligning us terribly for defending the edge. Against Kansas, they motioned a TE or H-back most plays and we wouldn't even shift our alignment to account a new strong side on the play. His coaching has gotten worse and worse as the year goes on. He's completely lost at this point.

11 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

 

Well, you do raise a fair question. His rushing of the QB, when he does rush, hasn’t been great. Typically that fourth rusher is a little bigger than Ossai. The BBacker in this defense is by definition a tweener, a little smaller than a typical DE and a little slower than an outside LB. I love Ossai. He was my favorite recruit in his class. Yet, right now he’s a little too slow to hang with receivers in coverage but not quite big enough to deliver a consistent rush. That seems like a personnel usage issue that falls right on Orlando. Where do you put a guy like Ossai but still get consistent QB pressure. Right now we are failing at both coverage and pressure.

Ossai's 6'4, 245 and he moves plenty well for an OLB.  Von Miller is pretty much a prototypical OLB and he's 6'3 250 right now but he played lighter in college. Size isn't why Ossai isn't delivering a consistent rush. He needs more reps to become a better pass rusher, but he's not getting them. Ossai can be at least solid right now as either a Rover or a B-backer, but instead Orlando's been playing him as a big nickel, which is just unfair to Ossai and doesn't make any sense either. 

[Dbeasy 15068]

DJ played Will not Mike.  And Orlando is a dumbass.  You may be remembering Aaron Harris as the stud Mike.

 

 

 

 

 

He lined up in both periodically.

 

[Fondren & Main 6725]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said: