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Machinator

By Machinator
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TreatyOak
TreatyOak
Bevo14
Bevo14

That's impressive. It didn't look like our players knew what Texas was doing pre-snap

Burt Macklin
Burt Macklin

Y’all are fucking idiots. Without the two muffed points, the D might not have even given up 20 points and we held an explosive OSU offense to 5.5 YPP while forcing 2 turnovers and being given some bad

gmr548

gmr548 16681

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I only saw PPG and YPG, but apparently we were better in the S&P advanced whatever. Both did give up less yards and points, for whatever that's worth. Remember the point I was arguing was that you said the "only" hope was the out-talent and out-recruit the modern spread. Iowa State had 1 4-star recruit between 2014 and 2018. TCU, who has a much better defensive reputation, doesn't recruit on our level, yet performs better, or in the same league as us (as in 2017). I don't agree with that "hope". I think it's just flat undercoaching on our campus, especially with our talent.

 

 

TCU isn't a fair comparison. Patterson is a generational defensive mind/coach. They've also shown signs of coming down to earth, relatively speaking. Lincoln Riley has handled them at OU. Ohio State put 40 on them, though that was probably a function of fatigue.

 

That said, I do think there should be more willingness to learn from them. Also when they offer some tweener safety, there's your rover prospect that we can never seem to find. They always pull those guys out of nowhere and make them the best spread busting LBs around.

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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Machinator

Machinator 32102

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6 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Who? Can you quote it? I can’t find it.

Ah, it was in the other thread about our defense. I had conflated the two.

On 9/11/2019 at 4:27 PM, horngasm19 said:

what can Orlan_o even say to recruits?

"I haven't been able to defend the forward pass for 3 years and none of my idiotic blitzes have ever worked, but come play for me?"

There was also some discussion about how TCU and Iowa State were better than us every year Orlando has been here when in 2017 the differences were not substantial (Except our anemic offense put an added burden on the defense).

Anyway, I'm not defending Orlando and I don't like the trendlines this season, but I do think there's some wiggle room between "he's clueless against the spread" and "stay the course, our guys are just inexperienced and will get better when with time".

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Slacks

Slacks 7034

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Will Muschamp is the last Texas DC I remember being able to deliver consistent results, even during the 2010 debacle. His defenses seemed more vanilla, while enjoying being aided by legendary athletes.

the coaches have to coach these players in a better way, or the coaches have to recruit better players.

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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5156

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2 hours ago, Snacks said:


the coaches have to coach these players in a better way, or the coaches have to recruit better players.
 

We had dominant line play from our 4 DL scheme, with talented edge rushers. We had great linebackers (Muckleroy, Acho, Robinson). Our DBs were young, but athletic and coached by Akina. Not to give TO a pass, but we really are in a talent/experience  trough.

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RoyalBevo21

RoyalBevo21 913

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1 hour ago, USNALonghorn said:

We had dominant line play from our 4 DL scheme, with talented edge rushers. We had great linebackers (Muckleroy, Acho, Robinson). Our DBs were young, but athletic and coached by Akina. Not to give TO a pass, but we really are in a talent/experience  trough.

Meh, other than LB the talent level is fine. Our problem is a technique/experience issue. I have faith in the staff to get this turned around I think the ceiling is a defense ranked in the 70's in total yards allowed which should be more than enough to win/compete in the Big 12. Just need to dial down the exotic shit. Practice tackling and man coverage every fucking day and let the youngsters just play and not have to think too much. Sure they'll give up some big plays here and there. But they're talented enough to make a lot of stops as well. 

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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5156

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17 minutes ago, RoyalBevo21 said:

Meh, other than LB the talent level is fine. Our problem is a technique/experience issue. I have faith in the staff to get this turned around I think the ceiling is a defense ranked in the 70's in total yards allowed which should be more than enough to win/compete in the Big 12. Just need to dial down the exotic shit. Practice tackling and man coverage every fucking day and let the youngsters just play and not have to think too much. Sure they'll give up some big plays here and there. But they're talented enough to make a lot of stops as well. 

Agree with all except the man coverage part. Isn’t zone far more effective at stopping the modern spread?

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RoyalBevo21

RoyalBevo21 913

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28 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

Agree with all except the man coverage part. Isn’t zone far more effective at stopping the modern spread?

Yes and no, you can't just sit back in zone. You'll get picked apart as there's always a hole in the zone. I'd like to see us run some cover 2 man (corners and LBs are in m2m with 2 safeties up top playing deep halves) Caden Sterns is a prototypical center fielder and can cover a lot of ground. Unfortunately our current corners need some help over the top when in man coverage. I was dumbfounded TO did essentially nothing to help out our young corners against LSU.

Edited by RoyalBevo21
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squeegeedegg

squeegeedegg 724

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Hell, if Ossai and McCulloch swapped roles on the 3rd and 17, and if Coburn doesn't try to get cute acting like he's Dwight Freeney spinning around in front of the guard and instead collapses the pocket even half a yard... then that play call works and works big.  Little things make all the difference in football, but aggressive defense is always best defense.   Fix these little things and learn from mistakes, and suddenly the stats will stop looking horrifying.

We're liking the offense sure, but it's clear Herman/Beck are struggling with not having Andrew Beck anymore, and same can be said for TO not having Gary Johnson and to a lesser extent Kris Boyd.   

Just imagine the hordes of Cajuns spewing spittle out of their crawfish-holes if they lost the game due to throwing the ball on 2nd down and again on 3rd and 17 with a lead and their vaunted ESSS-ERRR-SEEE defense sitting on the sideline.  As far as bad playcalls go, that's a bad one.  But it worked so they're all getting worked up on fermented crab and filling up their jizz canteens

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squeegeedegg

squeegeedegg 724

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12 minutes ago, RoyalBevo21 said:

Yes and no, you can't just sit back in zone. You'll get picked apart as there's always a hole in the zone. I'd like to see us run some cover 2 man (corners and LBs are in m2m with 2 safeties up top playing deep halves) Caden Sterns is a prototypical center fielder and can cover a lot of ground. Unfortunately our current corners need some help over the top when in man coverage. I was dumbfounded TO did essentially nothing to help out our young corners against LSU.

That's a good point, but I think both safeties started dedicating more help to the outside corners early in the 2nd quarter which resulted in the middle being easily exploited on the first LSU touchdown.  This made it even easier on Burrow as now neither the corners could stick with their man nor could the safeties cut off the middle of the field throwing lanes.  I love Ossai, but his backpeddal is simply too slow, same for McC.  It seems like adjustments in the secondary actually just made things easier for a smart qb like Burrow.   Jones and Sterns just made themselves non factors trying to help both the corners and the LBs

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RoyalBevo21

RoyalBevo21 913

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22 minutes ago, squeegeedegg said:

That's a good point, but I think both safeties started dedicating more help to the outside corners early in the 2nd quarter which resulted in the middle being easily exploited on the first LSU touchdown.  This made it even easier on Burrow as now neither the corners could stick with their man nor could the safeties cut off the middle of the field throwing lanes.  I love Ossai, but his backpeddal is simply too slow, same for McC.  It seems like adjustments in the secondary actually just made things easier for a smart qb like Burrow.   Jones and Sterns just made themselves non factors trying to help both the corners and the LBs

True. That game really exploited our LBs. I know he's still young, but after watching the film Adeoye is a JAG out there. Poor in coverage, below average against the run. Really missing Gary Johnson in the middle. I know it's asking a lot at this point, but we've got to get athletic at LB before this defense can be elite.

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Slacks

Slacks 7034

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"we've got to get athletic at LB before this defense can be elite."

 

we've been saying this since forever. 2006.

 

I'm not sure we've ever recruited the lb positions consistently well... we need to convert some HS safeties and TEs to LB... and let them learn the position over a couple years... do this with 1 or 2 every year... then you have ATH to choose from for LB, S, and TE, in addition to the pure players at those positions.

 

 

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RoyalBevo21

RoyalBevo21 913

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5 hours ago, Snacks said:

"we've got to get athletic at LB before this defense can be elite."

 

we've been saying this since forever. 2006.

 

I'm not sure we've ever recruited the lb positions consistently well... we need to convert some HS safeties and TEs to LB... and let them learn the position over a couple years... do this with 1 or 2 every year... then you have ATH to choose from for LB, S, and TE, in addition to the pure players at those positions.

 

 

Texas HS coaches need to get their shit together. Defenders from Texas aren't prepared for college ball. Their techniques and tackling are typically pretty weak. 

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Yesh

Yesh 961

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On Texas Gameday they had a segment on the pass defense and Griffin showed some plays where we were in zone and guys were getting out of position.  Best case is it takes a loss for the guys to understand to do their assignment and trust each other, and seeing it on film they can get it corrected.  Worse case is the coaches aren't capable of communicating the concepts.

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BurdineBandit

BurdineBandit 823

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On 9/14/2019 at 7:15 AM, Snacks said:

"we've got to get athletic at LB before this defense can be elite."

 

we've been saying this since forever. 2006.

 

 

Point taken, but it hasn't been that long. Keenan Robinson. Emmanuel Acho. Jordan Hicks. (Dare I throw Malik in there). We've had some solid LBs that could move and had instincts in the box, they just come along way too rarely. We gotta hit on some more prospects for sure though. I'm glad somebody else is seeing that Ossai is a liability when we ask him to take steps backwards. His usage there makes him look a bit more like Anthony Wheeler than Gary Johnson. Where he should be playing off the edge closer to the line. It's ironic that a dude with 2 INTs still seems slow in coverage to me though.

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gmr548

gmr548 16681

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Point taken, but it hasn't been that long. Keenan Robinson. Emmanuel Acho. Jordan Hicks. (Dare I throw Malik in there). We've had some solid LBs that could move and had instincts in the box, they just come along way too rarely. We gotta hit on some more prospects for sure though. I'm glad somebody else is seeing that Ossai is a liability when we ask him to take steps backwards. His usage there makes him look a bit more like Anthony Wheeler than Gary Johnson. Where he should be playing off the edge closer to the line. It's ironic that a dude with 2 INTs still seems slow in coverage to me though.

Ossai isn't a great coverage LB from an athletic standpoint, but his instincts and pursuit in coverage are miles ahead of Wheeler. I do agree that Ossai shouldn't be dropped into coverage just for the sake of getting cute, though, which is sometimes the case. The defensive unit has an overall lack of his skill set in terms of setting the edge and getting after the QB. He's shown the kind of ability to do this things that no one else on the roster, and this defense should be playing to his strengths more than it does.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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JBJ

JBJ 3782

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40 minutes ago, gmr548 said:


Ossai isn't a great coverage LB from an athletic standpoint, but his instincts and pursuit in coverage are miles ahead of Wheeler. I do agree that Ossai shouldn't be dropped into coverage just for the sake of getting cute, though, which is sometimes the case. The defensive unit has an overall lack of his skill set in terms of setting the edge and getting after the QB. He's shown the kind of ability to do this things that no one else on the roster, and this defense should be playing to his strengths more than it does.

I understand your reasoning here, but he has 3 INTs in 3 games.  One was tipped, but the other two are examples of great underneath coverage.

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sushihorn

sushihorn 3248

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1 hour ago, gmr548 said:


Ossai isn't a great coverage LB from an athletic standpoint, but his instincts and pursuit in coverage are miles ahead of Wheeler. I do agree that Ossai shouldn't be dropped into coverage just for the sake of getting cute, though, which is sometimes the case. The defensive unit has an overall lack of his skill set in terms of setting the edge and getting after the QB. He's shown the kind of ability to do this things that no one else on the roster, and this defense should be playing to his strengths more than it does.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

One thing that I hadn't noticed until rewatching the LA Tech game is that the bigger DEs hamstring Orlando somewhat in terms of creating defensive chaos.  He can still bring DBs on the blitz.  But it's a lot less effective dropping a 290+ lb DE (Roach) or a 300 pounder (Sweat) into the slant-curl zone than it was previously with smaller DEs.  Of the 4 guys frequently playing at LOS, Ossai is now the only one with the quickness to really play that role, which makes the coverage and rush schemes more predictable than in the past.  It's probably the one downside of Yancy getting these guys so bulked and ripped.

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Thiefery

Thiefery 5108

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I just finished watching the Flim Study link that was posted.  The play calling itself wasn't bad, just the execution.  There seems to be a wide gap in communication from the LB's and the safety in regards to the middle of the field.  WRs are easily finding the open spots and a competent QB like Burrow feasted on that. Like it was mentioned before, the secondary will continue to get better as the units gel together.  It will be a good sign if the defense can keep Okie light under 28 points

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19222

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2 hours ago, JBJ said:

I understand your reasoning here, but he has 3 INTs in 3 games.  One was tipped, but the other two are examples of great underneath coverage.

Ossai only has 2 INTs and both came off tipped balls. The third one you’re referencing was called back, and he did a nice job dropping into the flat on that one, but he’s not an ILB. He’s an edge defender with good mobility. He did a terrible job dropping into middle zones against LSU. He constantly bit on the RPO and did a poor job getting depth in his drops, so there was a ton of space in front of our safeties. 

Using Ossai to drop as much as he does, so he can try to surprise the offense with who’s rushing is orlando’s exact problem. He’s focusing too much on winning play calls instead of using his best pass rusher to actually consistently rush the passer.

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staboner

staboner 5068

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7 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Okie Lite gashed us hard on the QB zone read the exact same way last year with their senior QB who supposedly 'wasn't a runner'. Nothing's changed.

i fucking know its coming. shit orlando come on man. 

and his run blitzes work too. 

and he then forgets to use them lord. 

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