To__ Orlan_o - _efensive Coor_inator

[BornOrange1955 77]

The defense missed 21 tackles and that's Orlando's fault??? Does he run missed tackling drills? Doubtful. So I'm blaming the players for that. When I look at OU vs Texas I only see elite talent on one side of the field. Almost every year. As much as I hate to admit it, they are a better "program". Recruits know it. Herman still has a lot of work to do.

[Laga4 1270]

12 minutes ago, BornOrange1955 said:

The defense missed 21 tackles and that's Orlando's fault??? Does he run missed tackling drills? Doubtful. So I'm blaming the players for that. When I look at OU vs Texas I only see elite talent on one side of the field. Almost every year. As much as I hate to admit it, they are a better "program". Recruits know it. Herman still has a lot of work to do.

Orlando is in charge of the defense so yes it is his fault. 

It's not like we don't have players that are not capable of learning to tackle.

If Orlando can't put together a staff that can teach the most basic thing a defense does then yes it is his fault. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Laga4

[Dbeasy 15534]

The defense missed 21 tackles and that's Orlando's fault??? Does he run missed tackling drills? Doubtful. So I'm blaming the players for that. When I look at OU vs Texas I only see elite talent on one side of the field. Almost every year. As much as I hate to admit it, they are a better "program". Recruits know it. Herman still has a lot of work to do.

Missed tackles is also an indication of opposing players being in the open field more often, hence tougher tackles to make.

[Thiefery 5108]

Defense was gassed by the 4th quarter.. Offense had no rhythm and kept the defense off the field for about two minutes before punting the ball back to ou for the majority of the game.  It was an overall shit show, that said the defense needs to show improvement from the players that are captains, starters, and backups thrusted into these starting positions. We can get better

[bschoolprof 6340]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

 

Missed tackles is also an indication of opposing players being in the open field more often, hence tougher tackles to make.

 

This. Many of the “poor angles” we take and missed tackles are a function of a blown assignment or an unsound alignment leading to offensive players having the ball with literally no one around them. For example, it’s a lot easier for a LB or safety to make a tackle when a DE holds the edge and forces the RB to stutter step and come back inside. 

They are also a function of a defensive staff that does not emphasize tackling and pursuit fundamentals in practice. Yes, these are skills these players learned in middle school, but they will erode if not reinforced consistently. Even MLB players need to practice grounders. 

[6th Street 6656]

I'd expect Orlando and at least 2 position coaches to be gone at the end of the year. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5854]

14 hours ago, Elmer_Fudd said:

Ash and Aranda at the top of the list?  Any other names?

Get Jay Bateman and don't look back. 

[NowThis 931]

9 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

I'd expect Orlando and at least 2 position coaches to be gone at the end of the year. 

tougher for Herman to unload Orlando than it was for Mack to unload Greg Davis.  The friendship is too much imo and Herman isn't the fire type of guy, is he?

What is Herman's record of letting people go?

[Wally Pryor 5389]

Did Babers count Ossai's whiff as two missed tackles on the play below?    He should.   

On his off Saturday off I could envision Brown painting Sally's toenails and cackling about a tackling epidemic in America. With a good exhibit on display in the Cotton Bowl that Ossai attempt was the worst of the worse. 

 

 

[LurkingHorn 1092]

10 hours ago, Thermos H. Christ said:

Why is it that every time we have a new DC our defense kicks ass? Diaz year one,, Robinson turnaround, Bedford year one, Orlando year one...

j guess what I’m saying is name Chris Ash interim DC right now and then hire whoever next year and keep them on a short leash.

Because offenses in this conference will figure you out if you are married to your scheme. It's worse if your scheme basically gives the offense a free 7 yards just based on alignment. 

[LTtxfan 49922]

15 hours ago, Elmer_Fudd said:

Ash and Aranda at the top of the list?  Any other names?

Probably 2 on Tom's list...

Rutger's buyout needs to be finalized before Ash will consider taking a DC job.... Also Urban might want Ash to join his staff if Urban gets hired at USC...

 

 

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/10/07/buyout-could-have-rutgers-paying-fired-chris-ash-until-2023/

Buyout could have Rutgers paying fired Chris Ash until 2023

By Kevin McGuire.   Oct 7, 2019

Rutgers has officially moved on from Chris Ash as head coach, but they aren’t exactly off the hook with him just yet. In fact, he may be on the payroll for another few years.  As reported by NJ.com, Rutgers still owes Ash a total of $8.47 million that was due on his remaining contract. In 2017, Ash signed a new contract that ran through the 2022 season and expired in Feb. 2023. Rutgers originally hired Ash on a five-year deal in 2015 that would have expired after the 2020 season, which would have saved the school a good amount of money in the long run. As it stands, the school owes Ash for three-and-a-half unpaid seasons of work.

Of course, there could always be some negotiation between the two sides as they go their separate ways. If Ash happens to take another job, Rutgers wouldn’t necessarily be off the hook for his bi-weekly payments either. Rutgers would simply be required to pay the remaining difference between what he is owed under the Rutgers contract and the pay he receives from any potential new contract he receives elsewhere.  But, according to NJ.com, Ash and Rutgers will have to agree on a separation agreement. While Ash is entitled to the full amount owed to him under his contract, it is always possible a lower buyout fee may be agreed to as the process plays out.

If you were Ash, it’s not the worst thing in the world to take some time off and collect those paychecks from Rutgers, but odds are he will return to a football program as a defensive coordinator at some point before he is considered for another head coaching position in the near future.

[Dbeasy 15534]

tougher for Herman to unload Orlando than it was for Mack to unload Greg Davis.  The friendship is too much imo and Herman isn't the fire type of guy, is he?
What is Herman's record of letting people go?

These guys are on one year contracts. It will be easier to let them go than to sign them for 2-3 years knowing they might not be the answer.

[ChickenSandwich 9927]

1 hour ago, BornOrange1955 said:

The defense missed 21 tackles and that's Orlando's fault??? Does he run missed tackling drills? Doubtful. So I'm blaming the players for that. When I look at OU vs Texas I only see elite talent on one side of the field. Almost every year. As much as I hate to admit it, they are a better "program". Recruits know it. Herman still has a lot of work to do.

Our scheme seems to ALWAYS rely on 1-1 tackles. Rarely do we have multiple bodies around the football to make plays. 
 

The signs were there during Ok St and WV in regards to run defense. We had Ossai or others making one on one tackles in space to often save a huge gain. So happy that WV decided to stop running the ball

[Burt Macklin 19222]

2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Our scheme seems to ALWAYS rely on 1-1 tackles. Rarely do we have multiple bodies around the football to make plays. 
 

The signs were there during Ok St and WV in regards to run defense. We had Ossai or others making one on one tackles in space to often save a huge gain. So happy that WV decided to stop running the ball

It’s not scheme-specific. Against teams like OSU and OU that have QBs that are run threats, good traditional running games, and 1st round WRs, any defense will be hard pressed to have multiple people in position To make the play.

That’s kind of the entire point of a spread offense and we face some of the bets every single year. Your guys have to make their tackles. There’s no other answer. 

[Rhinotx 506]

Most likely would be dumping Warehime to free a spot and hiring Ash. Naviar is Co-DC and Safeties coach I would think that Ash would be an upgrade but I don't see him getting released.

[TXs 229]

This game was the final straw for me on TO. the signs have been there, but there's no redemption here on out. No.1 in missed tackles, we looked 2 seconds slower out there over evaluating everything. He might as well play 4 man down when half the time he has a LB or DB blitzing from 10 yards back. 

Fucking Grinch made OU's defenders (who are largely dogshit and wouldnt have one starter on our team except for Murray) look like Bama smashing a D3 school. They didnt do anything exotic other than fly to the ball and stunt.

His refusal to change is reminiscent of Diaz, with Greg coming in and overnight having us be leaps and bounds better just by playing sound simple defense.

Fuck you TO, i hope you find a "promotion" this offseason.

[ClubWhatever 12277]

10 minutes ago, TXs said:

This game was the final straw for me on TO. the signs have been there, but there's no redemption here on out. No.1 in missed tackles, we looked 2 seconds slower out there over evaluating everything. He might as well play 4 man down when half the time he has a LB or DB blitzing from 10 yards back. 

Fucking Grinch made OU's defenders (who are largely dogshit and wouldnt have one starter on our team except for Murray) look like Bama smashing a D3 school. They didnt do anything exotic other than fly to the ball and stunt.

His refusal to change is reminiscent of Diaz, with Greg coming in and overnight having us be leaps and bounds better just by playing sound simple defense.

Fuck you TO, i hope you find a "promotion" this offseason.

Avatar checks out

[Slacks 7035]

This is it right here. Every DC thinks they have to dazzle the shit out of opposing OCs with exotic pressure.

No. You get the guys comfortable with basic football first (align and tackle). Then you get them to be experts at recognition and angles.

Then you tell them to do it really fast. Do your job fast and sound. Defense. Easy.

Gary Patterson isnt exotic. Nick Saban isnt exotic.

Strategically, the defensive staff should operate in one of two ways... both if you can execute, but if not, just one of:
*Find the offenses weak point(s) and exploit them, or
*Understand the offenses top priorities/strengths and limit them.

Don't guess. Prepare and execute.

[Slacks 7035]

wtf? quote didnt embed...

[HtownHorn 15243]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

yeah, using yards given up is a terrible measure for the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness by a defense - this isn't 1970.

advanced statistics give us a much better view of how good or bad generally a defense is and includes things like backing out garbage time (who cares if you give up a 75 yard drive with your 2nd and 3rd teamers out there in a game when you are up 40 points?), adjusting for the quality of offenses you play (getting smoked by OU is different than getting smoked by San DIego State), and the tempo of said offenses (Army and Washington State play at drastically different speeds)

S&P+ has the Texas defense at #66 (#5 offense)

FEI has the Texas defense at #48 (#8 offense)

there are plenty of reasons to shit on Orlando and plenty of ammo to do so - but using antiquated statistics for measuring how actually good or bad a defense is is a poor way to do so. shit on Texas for being #66 overall in defense - when they should be better.

there is a reason we don't use batting average or RBI to represent how actually good or bad a player was in Baseball anymore, it is the same way in football...

I shit on Orlando because I saw Ossai 40 yards down the field in coverage on Lamb. That should never happen in a defense that wants to keep Lamb from getting the ball 40 yards down the field.

[ATLLonghorn 1085]

Look on the bright side, only San Jose State, Florida and Oregon have more interceptions than we do this year and that is something that is totally and completely sustainable!

[HtownHorn 15243]

2 hours ago, BornOrange1955 said:

The defense missed 21 tackles and that's Orlando's fault??? Does he run missed tackling drills? Doubtful. So I'm blaming the players for that. When I look at OU vs Texas I only see elite talent on one side of the field. Almost every year. As much as I hate to admit it, they are a better "program". Recruits know it. Herman still has a lot of work to do.

It's Orlando's fault because the kids are out of position trying to make these tackles. Usually playing 2-3 yards behind and running out of control because they are the only defender in the area and once they whiff on that tackle there is nothing but 20 yards of green in front of the opposing offensive player.

[TexasEd 8251]

Sitting in the stands the 2 things that stood out to me was that when Texas threw a pass there was a defender on the receiver.  When OU threw a pass they were open by 5 yards or more the majority of the time and we had to close the gap after the reception.  The difference was striking.  The second was that we did not set the edge on the runs, OU got around the line and was not turned inside until 10 yards down field, if ever.

Both of those things contribute to the missed tackles.  OU was playing in space and making open field moves all game.

[Slacks 7035]

The defense missed 21 tackles and that's Orlando's fault??? Does he run missed tackling drills? Doubtful. So I'm blaming the players for that. When I look at OU vs Texas I only see elite talent on one side of the field. Almost every year. As much as I hate to admit it, they are a better "program". Recruits know it. Herman still has a lot of work to do.

bs.
if we flipped players and staff, we still lose that game. Riley would go nuts with Duvernay Johnson, Burt, Ingram, RoJo, Sam...

and we have the better talent of defense...

running a tackling drill doesn't mean you're running it right. leading the world in missed tackles falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff. they are the teachers and leaders. no excuses.

[SuckitKevin 979]

Let me preface this by saying I love BJ Foster. Foster needs to sit until his shoulder is better. Having a shoulder injury when your best attribute is thumping the shit out of people renders his effectiveness as minimal. We would be better off starting a 4th stringer than relying on a guy who physically can’t get it done right now.

[Dbeasy 15534]

Despite complaining about Orlando I’m still not on the fire Orlando bus. He’s coached well enough to get us into the Big 12 championship last year and I bet we make it again this year. He runs a multiple look where he puts Ossai down in the dirt occasionally. All he needs to do is show that look a lot more often than putting Ossai back as a roaming linebacker. Put Mitchell in the middle with six DB’s and you have your defense against the spread for 65-70% of the snaps. Use the remaining 30-35% of the snaps for blitzes and 3 man fronts (but please limit 3 man rushes to a few snaps; it leaves the QB too much time).

 

Against more conventional offenses run five DB’s with Mitchell and Ayodele or McCullough (if not injured) if you believe you need more beef to take on gaps.

 

[Bevo 13832]

51 minutes ago, Snacks said:

bs.
if we flipped players and staff, we still lose that game. Riley would go nuts with Duvernay Johnson, Burt, Ingram, RoJo, Sam...

and we have the better talent of defense...

running a tackling drill doesn't mean you're running it right. leading the world in missed tackles falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff. they are the teachers and leaders. no excuses.

We are giving wide receivers too much space. This fault lies both on the DBs and the lack of a pass rush. But, it is extremely difficult to tackle in space when the WR or running back is at full speed and able to make cuts at full speed.

[GreenspointTexas 9933]

Imma laugh my ass off at this thread a year from now

[Rhinotx 506]

9 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Despite complaining about Orlando I’m still not on the fire Orlando bus. He’s coached well enough to get us into the Big 12 championship last year and I bet we make it again this year. He runs a multiple look where he puts Ossai down in the dirt occasionally. All he needs to do is show that look a lot more often than putting Ossai back as a roaming linebacker. Put Mitchell in the middle with six DB’s and you have your defense against the spread for 65-70% of the snaps. Use the remaining 30-35% of the snaps for blitzes and 3 man fronts (but please limit 3 man rushes to a few snaps; it leaves the QB too much time).

 

Against more conventional offenses run five DB’s with Mitchell and Ayodele or McCullough (if not injured) if you believe you need more beef to take on gaps.

 

Outside of OU nobody is remotely as talented as us. Getting to the B12 championship should not be a high bar.  

[ClubWhatever 12277]

57 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

Sitting in the stands the 2 things that stood out to me was that when Texas threw a pass there was a defender on the receiver.  When OU threw a pass they were open by 5 yards or more the majority of the time and we had to close the gap after the reception.  The difference was striking.  The second was that we did not set the edge on the runs, OU got around the line and was not turned inside until 10 yards down field, if ever.

Both of those things contribute to the missed tackles.  OU was playing in space and making open field moves all game.

As seen on TV, but the all 22 view makes it even more apparent.  Either way it's obvious and infuriating. 

[HtownHorn 15243]

9 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Despite complaining about Orlando I’m still not on the fire Orlando bus. He’s coached well enough to get us into the Big 12 championship last year and I bet we make it again this year. He runs a multiple look where he puts Ossai down in the dirt occasionally. All he needs to do is show that look a lot more often than putting Ossai back as a roaming linebacker. Put Mitchell in the middle with six DB’s and you have your defense against the spread for 65-70% of the snaps. Use the remaining 30-35% of the snaps for blitzes and 3 man fronts (but please limit 3 man rushes to a few snaps; it leaves the QB too much time).

 

Against more conventional offenses run five DB’s with Mitchell and Ayodele or McCullough (if not injured) if you believe you need more beef to take on gaps.

 

Nah, give me a 4 man front of Roach, Coburn, Bimage, and Graham. Put Ossai and Mitchell at LB. Then a 5 man secondary of Cook, Jamison, Overshown, Jones, and Brown. Rest Foster until he is healthy. Then you have 5 spots in the secondary and can rotate Cook, Jamison, Green, Foster, Overshown, Brown, Jones, and Sterns when everyone is healthy.

You have a 3 man rotation of Mitchell, Ossai, and Adeoye at LB, working in Hobbs who has looked really physical on STs lately.

At DL you have the 4 above plus Jones, Sweat, Carson, Wilbon, and Giles.

You have the perfect personnel to run a really good 4-2-5, but Orlando is too stubborn to give it a look. Probably because he can't teach it.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13133]

Why is this dude married to the 3 man front? I don't get it. It doesn't work, obviously. Herman isn't stupid, but come on. Someone with more knowledge on Orlando than me (which is a shit ton) fill me in. Has he always used this formation?

[USNALonghorn 5156]

Because apparently he’s really committed to stopping the RPO.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13133]

2 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

Because apparently he’s really committed to stopping the RPO.

Have his defenses always had trouble tackling? 

[Dbeasy 15534]

Nah, give me a 4 man front of Roach, Coburn, Bimage, and Graham. Put Ossai and Mitchell at LB. Then a 5 man secondary of Cook, Jamison, Overshown, Jones, and Brown. Rest Foster until he is healthy. Then you have 5 spots in the secondary and can rotate Cook, Jamison, Green, Foster, Overshown, Brown, Jones, and Sterns when everyone is healthy.
You have a 3 man rotation of Mitchell, Ossai, and Adeoye at LB, working in Hobbs who has looked really physical on STs lately.
At DL you have the 4 above plus Jones, Sweat, Carson, Wilbon, and Giles.
You have the perfect personnel to run a really good 4-2-5, but Orlando is too stubborn to give it a look. Probably because he can't teach it.

Brown is out. Bimage is too small to be heavy in the rotation.

[Jkwellborn 7011]

Nah, give me a 4 man front of Roach, Coburn, Bimage, and Graham. Put Ossai and Mitchell at LB. Then a 5 man secondary of Cook, Jamison, Overshown, Jones, and Brown. Rest Foster until he is healthy. Then you have 5 spots in the secondary and can rotate Cook, Jamison, Green, Foster, Overshown, Brown, Jones, and Sterns when everyone is healthy.
You have a 3 man rotation of Mitchell, Ossai, and Adeoye at LB, working in Hobbs who has looked really physical on STs lately.
At DL you have the 4 above plus Jones, Sweat, Carson, Wilbon, and Giles.
You have the perfect personnel to run a really good 4-2-5, but Orlando is too stubborn to give it a look. Probably because he can't teach it.

He evidently can’t teach the defense he trots out weekly either.

[LTtxfan 49922]

7 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Why is this dude married to the 3 man front? I don't get it. It doesn't work, obviously. Herman isn't stupid, but come on. Someone with more knowledge on Orlando than me (which is a shit ton) fill me in. Has he always used this formation?

Herman's preferred defense is a defense with a 3-man front.  Aranda recommended Orlando to Herman.  

Time for Orlando to adapt and fix this shitty defense or Herman needs to find a new DC.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13133]

1 minute ago, LTtxfan said:

Herman's preferred defense is a defense with a 3-man front.  Aranda recommended Orlando to Herman.  

Time for Orlando to adapt and fix this shitty defense or Herman needs to find a new DC.

What does Aranda use? I'm seriously curious 

[HtownHorn 15243]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

Brown is out. Bimage is too small to be heavy in the rotation.

 

Bimage is 6'2" 270. That is not small to play the DE position. If Brown is out then you have Estell and Adimora to also play the 3rd safety spot.

[JBJ 3782]

5 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

What does Aranda use? I'm seriously curious 

Aranda copied Orlando's defense, as did Kirby Smart and now Nick Saban.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13133]

1 minute ago, JBJ said:

Aranda copied Orlando's defense, as did Kirby Smart and now Nick Saban.

Well fuck it, we're all stupid. Let's keep Orlando. 

[HtownHorn 15243]

10 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

What does Aranda use? I'm seriously curious 

Aranda uses a 3 man front, but Chaisson rushes the passer more than he tries to cover an elite WR 40 yards down the field. Aranda also doesn't blitz from all over. The LSU defense has 14 sacks and 6 INTs, but only give up 317.5 YPG in total defense. They also only give up 55% completions and under 100 yards rushing a game. Proving you don't need exotic blitzes from all over when you have elite talent on defense. Texas has very good talent overall, but elite talent in the secondary. The scheme and coaching are the biggest issues.

Edited October 14, 2019 by HtownHorn

[Burt Macklin 19222]

22 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Nah, give me a 4 man front of Roach, Coburn, Bimage, and Graham. Put Ossai and Mitchell at LB. Then a 5 man secondary of Cook, Jamison, Overshown, Jones, and Brown. Rest Foster until he is healthy. Then you have 5 spots in the secondary and can rotate Cook, Jamison, Green, Foster, Overshown, Brown, Jones, and Sterns when everyone is healthy.

You have a 3 man rotation of Mitchell, Ossai, and Adeoye at LB, working in Hobbs who has looked really physical on STs lately.

At DL you have the 4 above plus Jones, Sweat, Carson, Wilbon, and Giles.

You have the perfect personnel to run a really good 4-2-5, but Orlando is too stubborn to give it a look. Probably because he can't teach it.

Lol this is far and away from “perfect personnel” for a 4-2-5. Ossai is the only above average edge rusher on this team and in your ideal defense you have him playing off ball LB. The 4-2-5 you just described would still have a ton of issues with getting pressure and would get killed on the back end. 

The problems in this defense don’t stem from 3 man vs 4 man. His defense can easily function as either if he uses Ossai as a true B-backer like he did with Bowser at UH.

18 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Why is this dude married to the 3 man front? I don't get it. It doesn't work, obviously. Herman isn't stupid, but come on. Someone with more knowledge on Orlando than me (which is a shit ton) fill me in. Has he always used this formation?

Again, it’s not 3 man vs 4 man. The 4 man front wouldn’t magically work with our personnel and coaching deficiencies. The NFL is split almost 50-50 in 3 man vs 4 man front. Neither one is a silver bullet.

5 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

What does Aranda use? I'm seriously curious 

You posted about how we would beat LSU for months this offseason and then watched the game and you still don’t know if they use a 3 man or 4 man front?
Wow. That actually seems very on brand for you. 

They run 3 down linemen and use their B-backer to rush the passer most of the time, so they’re a 3 man scheme that functionally operates as 4 man often. Orlando can (and has in the past) do this exact same thing pretty easily. The biggest problem for Orlando as compared to Aranda is he doesn’t have at least one CB he can leave on an island every single year, like Aranda has. When you have a shut down CB, like Holton Hill or Stingle/Greedy Williams for Aranda, then it essentially lets your defense play with an extra man that you can use to rush most plays. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 13133]

1 minute ago, Burt Macklin said:

Lol this is far and away from “perfect personnel” for a 4-2-5. Ossai is the only above average edge rusher on this team and in your ideal defense you have him playing off ball LB. The 4-2-5 you just described would still have a ton of issues with getting pressure and would get killed on the back end. 

The problems in this defense don’t stem from 3 man vs 4 man. His defense can easily function as either if he uses Ossai as a true B-backer like he did with Bowser at UH.

Again, it’s not 3 man vs 4 man. The 4 man front wouldn’t magically work with our personnel and coaching deficiencies. The NFL is split almost 50-50 in 3 man vs 4 man front. Neither one is a silver bullet.

You posted about how we would beat LSU for months this offseason and then watched the game and you still don’t know if they use a 3 man or 4 man front?
Wow. That actually seems very on brand for you. 

They run 3 down linemen and use their B-backer to rush the passer most of the time, so they’re a 3 man scheme that functionally operates as 4 man often. Orlando can (and has in the past) do this exact same thing pretty easily. The biggest problem for Orlando as compared to Aranda is he doesn’t have at least one CB he can leave on an island every single year, like Aranda has. When you have a shut down CB, like Holton Hill or Stingle/Greedy Williams for Aranda, then it essentially lets your defense play with an extra man that you can use to rush most plays. 

We would have beaten LSU if Ingram didn't miss that pass. Regardless, Washington seems to be the main issue on defense. No need to talk shit, we're all pissed. 

[Dbeasy 15534]

Aranda and Orlando D is very similar. Agree that Aranda has better DB’s right now for coverage especially given the injuries.

 

Edit: although I still wonder why Jamison and Cook aren’t yet better. Yes they are sophomores, but they were really highly rated guys.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13133]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

Aranda and Orlando D is very similar. Agree that Aranda has better DB’s right now for coverage especially given the injuries.

Washington reminds me of Clay Jennings, except he can recruit. We have good, young DB's, but they seem lost all the damn time. Their tackling, or lack thereof, is beyond words at this point. 

[JBJ 3782]

8 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Well fuck it, we're all stupid. Let's keep Orlando. 

Kind of correct.  Everyone is following Kirby Smart's lead in the SEC, while Orlando, Okst, WVU, Patterson, OU are all adapting from Heacock.

The only old-school defensive minds I can name that are refusing to change are Dantonio (Mich St) and his disciple Narduzzi (Pitt).  They don't play much spread and get destroyed when they have to.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13133]

1 minute ago, JBJ said:

Kind of correct.  Everyone is following Kirby Smart's lead in the SEC, while Orlando, Okst, WVU, Patterson, OU are all adapting from Heacock.

The only old-school defensive minds I can name that are refusing to change are Dantonio (Mich St) and his disciple Narduzzi (Pitt).  They don't play much spread and get destroyed when they have to.

Dantonio will never change. He's had success with his defense, so in his mind nothing is wrong. Do Narduzzi and Dantonio run the exact defense?

[Burt Macklin 19222]

1 minute ago, Spider2YBanana said:

We would have beaten LSU if Ingram didn't miss that pass. Regardless, Washington seems to be the main issue on defense. No need to talk shit, we're all pissed. 

Washington’s development/coaching hasn’t been good at UT, but the issues go deeper than that.

Orlando’s scheme isn’t that big of an issue, IMO. The scheme has worked really well for him in years’ past and has worked really  well for other good defensive coaches. The most glaring problem is the lack of development. All of our DBs, not just CBs, have been atrocious playing the ball in the air. Pretty much our entire defense has struggled with the concept of outside contain for two years now. We have guys blowing assignments often. Orlando’s play calls have generally put guys in position to make plays, but they’re not executing, which still ultimately falls on Orlando. 
 

he’s also done a poor job with personnel usage. Roach should’ve been a DE last year, instead of wasting his junior year at LB, where he was never going to work out. Foster should’ve been kept at Joker all offseason. Nickel is a waste of his talents. We’re now playing Jones at Nickel, who fits the spot well, but practiced all offseason at Boundary safety. Orlando has wasted a lot of development time by throwing guys all over the defense, instead of letting them master the intricacies of their craft. That showed up in a lot of ways against OU. 
 

Personnel is part of the problem and a lot of that stems from the shit Charlie left this staff from the 16 and 17 classes, but there’s been too many development/coaching issues to blame personnel at this point. I’m not on the fire Orlando is bus, but I’ve been saying since LSU that this defense needs to show progress and development over the season to keep his job. Right now, his performances seems to fluctuate based on the offense’s ability to exploit his known weaknesses rather than progress by our defense. That will need to change pretty drastically in order to believe he can be the DC of a team good enough to make playoff/win a title. 
 

All the fire Orlando talk seems pretty pointless though, IMO. I just don’t buy that Herman will fire Orlando or shake up the defensive staff. At most, I could see him canning/placing one of Mehrhime at another school and hiring a defensive position coach in their place.

9 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Aranda and Orlando D is very similar. Agree that Aranda has better DB’s right now for coverage especially given the injuries.

 

Edit: although I still wonder why Jamison and Cook aren’t yet better. Yes they are sophomores, but they were really highly rated guys.

Green played more QB than CB in HS, so he was always going to be really raw, and a lot of guys who play CB all the way through HS still struggle to adapt to the college games until their third years. Jamison played slot wr, S, and CB in HS, so he also wasn’t likely to be ready to play right away, but this staff really fucked JP by wasting his first year at slot WR. He’s got great instincts and aggressiveness and we’ve seen him develop a lot over the last few games. It’s hard not to believe that he’d already be a solid CB for us this year if he spent all last year at the position. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 13133]

2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Washington’s development/coaching hasn’t been good at UT, but the issues go deeper than that.

Orlando’s scheme isn’t that big of an issue, IMO. The scheme has worked really well for him in years’ past and has worked really  well for other good defensive coaches. The most glaring problem is the lack of development. All of our DBs, not just CBs, have been atrocious playing the ball in the air. Pretty much our entire defense has struggled with the concept of outside contain for two years now. We have guys blowing assignments often. Orlando’s play calls have generally put guys in position to make plays, but they’re not executing, which still ultimately falls on Orlando. 
 

he’s also done a poor job with personnel usage. Roach should’ve been a DE last year, instead of wasting his junior year at LB, where he was never going to work out. Foster should’ve been kept at Joker all offseason. Nickel is a waste of his talents. We’re now playing Jones at Nickel, who fits the spot well, but practiced all offseason at Boundary safety. Orlando has wasted a lot of development time by throwing guys all over the defense, instead of letting them master the intricacies of their craft. That showed up in a lot of ways against OU. 
 

Personnel is part of the problem and a lot of that stems from the shit Charlie left this staff from the 16 and 17 classes, but there’s been too many development/coaching issues to blame personnel at this point. I’m not on the fire Orlando is bus, but I’ve been saying since LSU that this defense needs to show progress and development over the season to keep his job. Right now, his performances seems to fluctuate based on the offense’s ability to exploit his known weaknesses rather than progress by our defense. That will need to change pretty drastically in order to believe he can be the DC of a team good enough to make playoff/win a title. 
 

All the fire Orlando talk seems pretty pointless though, IMO. I just don’t buy that Herman will fire Orlando or shake up the defensive staff. At most, I could see him canning/placing one of Mehrhime at another school and hiring a defensive position coach in their place.

Green played more QB than CB in HS, so he was always going to be really raw, and a lot of guys who play CB all the way through HS still struggle to adapt to the college games until their third years. Jamison played slot wr, S, and CB in HS, so he also wasn’t likely to be ready to play right away, but this staff really fucked JP by wasting his first year at slot WR. He’s got great instincts and aggressiveness and we’ve seen him develop a lot over the last few games. It’s hard not to believe that he’d already be a solid CB for us this year if he spent all last year at the position. 

Thanks. I appreciate you breaking that down for me.