2018-19 Texas Longhorns thread

[txhorns 2,409]

21 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

If I were making a college team based on players from each year my picks would go like this:

 

1.Isaiah Taylor

2.Cam Ridley

3.Matt Coleman

4.Kerwin Roach ‘18

5.Kerwin Roach ‘16

6.Jericho Sims

7.Javan Felix 

8.Kamaka Hepa

9.Connor Lammert

10.Prince Ibeh 

11.Dylan Osetkowski 

12.Eric Davis ‘16

13.Gerald Liddell 

 

Ridley and Coleman were close; Sims and Roach ‘16 were close; they were all fairly close after that.

7 players from the first team, 6 from next year’s. I rate the 2016 team as having the top 2 players, 3 of the top 5 players, and 4 of the top 6 players. I think that it was the superior team. And that’s why I think that our ceiling next year would somewhat mirror our 2015 output. I don’t find this upcoming roster as inspiring as some.

 

The problem with your rankings are the injuries.  Our 2016 team would have been much better with a healthy Taylor and Ridley.  With them healthy we probably would have made the Sweet 16.  So if you think this year's ceiling is the same as that year's then our ceiling this year is Sweet 16.

The other problem is that the 2016 team is based off what they actually did whereas the 2018-19 team is based off projections.

[Machinator 32,099]

Injuries are part of the game though. Obviously, freak events like cancer are completely out of left field, but you can always count on important players missing a few games or even getting knocked out at inopportune times, like Bamba with his turf toe last year. That's why depth matters. I think we have it in the backcourt, but the frontcourt is a major concern.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Injuries happen but it's also why Derka is drastically overvaluing the '15-16 roster. 

The best two players he listed had significant injuries. Ridley played 13 games and Taylor was probably 70% at best to end the season with plantar fasciitis. Taylor probably shouldn't have even been playing to end the year. 

The '15-16 roster already had very limited NBA talent and the 2 best players listed weren't healthy. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by texasstrong12

[txhorns 2,409]

Injuries absolutely happen.  When they do happen you have to adjust your expectations accordingly.  It also can change how a coach is viewed.  For the most part a coach cannot prevent injuries from happening.  It'swhat the cosch and his team do after the injuries that matter most.  

Shaka lost his best player in his first year.  His second best player was severely limited by an injury as well.  Those injuries changed the outlook of that team.  They also changed what the perceived ceiling of that team should have been.  

[texasstrong12 4,668]

15 minutes ago, txhorns said:

Injuries absolutely happen.  When they do happen you have to adjust your expectations accordingly.

Yup. I've been saying this is the biggest key to success not just in basketball but also football. We need to stay healthy. 

You can say "injuries happen" but we've been very unlucky with injuries in recent years. Even dating back to Barnes last year when Isaiah Taylor broke his wrist. I think 3 out of the last 4 years we've lost our best player for significant periods of the season. 

Like I said, injuries happen but this is terrible luck. Taylor (broken wrist), Ridley (broken foot)/Taylor (plantar fasciitis), and Jones (cancer)/Roach (broken wrist)/Bamba (turf toe). That's just a bad run of luck over the last 4 years. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by texasstrong12

[immortal13 4,059]

3 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Your mom has been goo’d.

Lulz

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Y’all have valid points about injuries,  but something that always gets overlooked with that roster is how deep it really was. Reason being that a lot of that depth was either not used (Jordan Barnett, Prince Ibeh) or misused (Holland with his lack of usage and trust, Mack being a precursor to DO, shooting really bad shots over and over with no changes, or Kendal Yancy, who should have been groomed as a catch-and-shoot guy but was also forgotten). Not a lot of teams have Tevin Mack, Jordan Barnett, Prince Ibeh, Demarcus Holland type guys just filling up seats down at the end of the bench. A better coach would have utilized that roster more effectively. Just for starters Barnett and Yancy should have gotten some of Mack’s minutes/shots. And there’s no excuse for Holland not to have a role on that team.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Goo Punch

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

2 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Well said, and I don’t disagree with any of that enough to rebut it. My outlook on the team and roster is pretty similar to yours. The thing for me is that I’d still take Shaka’s first team over this one, particularly for its depth, variety, and senior players. That team was more varied and more experienced, and yet we finished with a season fairly similar to the one we’ve projected for next year. You’ll have to give me your thoughts on a comparison of the two rosters, but if we neither one of us thinks that our upcoming team has a markedly better roster than Shaka’s first team, then we might be looking at our current projection becoming more of a ceiling.

Do you think losing Ridley for 20+ games had anything to do with how that team finished?

[Hook'Em0608 96]

23 hours ago, Cameltoe said:

Losing your best 3-pt shooter halfway through the season with a roster lacking other 3-pt threats isn't very conducive to scoring.

I'm located somewhere between you and the fire Shaka crowd, but you have to admit, we've been as bad on offense under Shaka (or worse) than the end of the Barnes era. We've wasted some pretty elite defenses with really bad scoring. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

1 hour ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yup. I've been saying this is the biggest key to success not just in basketball but also football. We need to stay healthy. 

You can say "injuries happen" but we've been very unlucky with injuries in recent years. Even dating back to Barnes last year when Isaiah Taylor broke his wrist. I think 3 out of the last 4 years we've lost our best player for significant periods of the season. 

Like I said, injuries happen but this is terrible luck. Taylor (broken wrist), Ridley (broken foot)/Taylor (plantar fasciitis), and Jones (cancer)/Roach (broken wrist)/Bamba (turf toe). That's just a bad run of luck over the last 4 years. 

It wasn't due to injury,  but at the time of his suspension Mack was our best player in the 16-17 season.  

[Goo Punch 4,275]

10 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Do you think losing Ridley for 20+ games had anything to do with how that team finished?

Of course it did, but his injury happened in time for the team to adjust and move forward. The team probably had a higher ceiling with him healthy, but that doesn’t mean that they reached their ceiling without him.

In 2002 we lost an absolute two way stud in Chris Ownens and yet we still took a young and mostly unspectacular team to the very brink of the Elite 8. That’s a team that responded and grew after a major injury. Ridley’s team still won 5 games against opponents ranked in the top 17 after he went down, and played competitively in road games in Norman and Kansas. They then of course went 0-2 in the postseason as the favored team in both games. That team did not reach its potential and that’s even after the Ridley injury.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Goo Punch

[Cameltoe 114]

2 hours ago, Hook'Em0608 said:

I'm located somewhere between you and the fire Shaka crowd, but you have to admit, we've been as bad on offense under Shaka (or worse) than the end of the Barnes era. We've wasted some pretty elite defenses with really bad scoring. 

If that's true, and I'm not sure that it is, I'd chalk that up to youth. We were decimated after 2016 and we're still rebuilding from that. Investing in the one-and-dones Allen and Bamba wasn't great for the long term but we had to take on talents like that.

The good news is reinforcements are one the way. Coleman looked really good for a true freshman last year and I thought Sims looked promising too. This year my gut tells me the freshmen will be pretty good, but i'll admit it's too early to say. The news about Hepa is cool, and most scouting reports have Ramey and Liddel either higher or as high as Hepa. Hayes is a nice wildcard and so is Cunningham.

[Cameltoe 114]

Pomeroy team offense, Texas Longhorns last 6 years:

2013 - 174th (Barnes)

2014 - 61st (Barnes)

2015 - 47th (Barnes)

2016 - 49th (Smart)

2017 - 177th (Smart)

2018 - 89th (Smart)

So over Barnes's last 3 years we averaged 94th in the nation in offense. Under Shaka's first 3 years we averaged 105th. A little worse for Shaka, but they both get failing grades here. But let's give credit to Shaka who hasn't really been through a whole cycle of recruiting his freshmen and seeing them grow up. I know I sound like a broken record but building a program can take time and Shaka's tenure so far is an example of that. I see the program on a upward trajectory right now, and that's really the most important thing.

[Machinator 32,099]

Fall 2018 can't get here soon enough. Both of our major men's revenue sports for that season have major questions surrounding those programs, and I think they're going to get answered in a big way with the upcoming seasons. I'm tired of all the back and forth and projections, but it's just early June.

[ChickenSandwich 9,836]

4 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Y’all have valid points about injuries,  but something that always gets overlooked with that roster is how deep it really was. Reason being that a lot of that depth was either not used (Jordan Barnett, Prince Ibeh) or misused (Holland with his lack of usage and trust, Mack being a precursor to DO, shooting really bad shots over and over with no changes, or Kendal Yancy, who should have been groomed as a catch-and-shoot guy but was also forgotten). Not a lot of teams have Tevin Mack, Jordan Barnett, Prince Ibeh, Demarcus Holland type guys just filling up seats down at the end of the bench. A better coach would have utilized that roster more effectively. Just for starters Barnett and Yancy should have gotten some of Mack’s minutes/shots. And there’s no excuse for Holland not to have a role on that team.

But it wasn’t deep. The guys you cite as depth were not used on Barnes way to being fired. They never were a contributing piece. Their biggest contributions (Prince) came under Shaka. 

So was it “depth” or Shaka finally getting some production from player who had done basically nothing up to that point. 

Both DO and Sims are already past Sr Prince. Ridley was a four min wonder who was always more potential and inspiration than productive. Those 13 games with Shaka were the peak of his career. 

The evidence shows that these guys only really became the “depth” you credit them for under Shaka

[Cameltoe 114]

Cleare + Ibeh + injured Ridley + Lammert == Deep Frontcourt

Derka math.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Anyone who keeps using Ridley’s injury as evidence that the 2016 didn’t have depth is simply advertising their own stupidity. I can’t believe I even have to explain that. A player getting injured in the middle of the season has absolutely nothing to do with the depth of the team going into the season. 

[Revolution512 1,487]

On 6/8/2018 at 12:32 AM, Goo Punch said:

If this is re: signing Forte to get Smart it’s still total nit picking. You act like we were alone in passing on Forte as a means to an end, when that’s what essentially every other school in the running did as well. This decision did not doom Tecas basketball, the prior recruiting class and ensuing mass exodus did.

That decision put Texas in the CBI the next season, a place it would’ve never sniffed with Smart on the roster. The mass exodus likely doesn’t occur and even if it does we still have sophomore Smart on the roster. It was a head scratcher of a decision, we all talked about it while it happened. 

Holland was a guard who had no real skill. Below avg ball handler, shooter, passer. Always hustled and played defense though. In all honesty, he should’ve never been recruited here. But I appreciated his effort and contribution to the program. 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

There are literally dozens of things which led more to the downfall of program than not signing Marcus Smart and Phil Forte. We aren’t talking about missing out on Kevin Durant here, we’re talking about a completely typical recruiting situation which ended up not going in our favor. 

[Revolution512 1,487]

Did I call it the downfall of the program? We decided against taking a lottery pick, that’s not a typical recruiting situation. It’s the colossal fuckup most people thought it was. 

But yes, in the end, just one of many reasons Rick is no longer here.

[Cameltoe 114]

If you compare recruiting classes Shaka has brought in to what Rick brought in his last 5 years here I think it's pretty clear we've taken a step up as a program in that department.

[immortal13 4,059]

Are you shitstains going to argue about Rick Barnes for all eternity? Start a seperate fucking thread for this mindless debate. Most of us don't give a fuck

[Cameltoe 114]

2 hours ago, immortal13 said:

Are you shitstains going to argue about Rick Barnes for all eternity? Start a seperate fucking thread for this mindless debate. Most of us don't give a fuck

Yeah you only give a fuck about dissing Shaka while he's the coach of the Longhorns. Maybe you should be a Rick fanboy like Derka and follow his Tennessee adventures. They are a better team than us, you'd prolly like them more.

[ausjala 101]

On 6/8/2018 at 8:07 PM, txhorns said:

I lied to you fuckers. Here's my quick side by side comparison based off what we had during conference play vs what we are projected to have this year

PG - Taylor vs Coleman - push - a healthy Taylor wins it here but he wasn't healthy

SG - Felix vs Long - Felix - I take Felix for now because we knew he could shoot.  Both are undersized.  Long is simply an unknown at this point.  A healthy Jones would win this in a landslide.

wing - F Roach vs S Roach - 2019 Roach - Roach played starter minutes for the 2015-2016 team.  Senior Roach is better.

PF - Lammert vs DO - DO - Lammert was simply too limited.  DO has the potential to be good if playing the role he is actually suited for

C - Ibeh vs Sims - push for now - Ibeh was a great shot blocker but very me everywhere else.  Sims will be a great rebounder.  As of right now they are both just dunks on offense.  If Sims develops some offensive moves he wins this easily.

backcourt bench - EDJ/Yancey/Mack/Holland/Croaked vs Ramey/Febres/Liddell - 2016 - 2016 wins this right now because of experience and shooting.  2018 is just too unknown right now but has a ton of potential.

front court depth - Cleare (lol) vs Hepa/Hayes/Cunningham/Hamm - 2018 - do I really need to explain this?

"Mr. txhorns meet Mr. Shit. Mr. Shit meet Mr. txhorns." There you go, introduced. So please don't lie to us again.

[immortal13 4,059]

7 hours ago, Cameltoe said:

Yeah you only give a fuck about dissing Shaka while he's the coach of the Longhorns. Maybe you should be a Rick fanboy like Derka and follow his Tennessee adventures. They are a better team than us, you'd prolly like them more.

Shaka is a bum and Rick is long gone. It' that simple. Aguing over who was the better coach is moronic. 

[Machinator 32,099]

 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

I just sent you into the 1,000 Club. Congratulations.

[Machinator 32,099]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c18iff8eLRs

Link to stream of the game. Hepa is wearing 12. I missed the first quarter, but apparently he played a good chunk of it.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

My mom’s friend made me a scrapbook and the UT page brought back some awesome basketball memories:

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Also, someone was standing 10 feet away from Mike Hackemack and couldn’t even fit that monster into the picture.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

3 hours ago, Machinator said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c18iff8eLRs

Link to stream of the game. Hepa is wearing 12. I missed the first quarter, but apparently he played a good chunk of it.

He didn't start, but he was among the first group off the bench in the first qtr. He missed a layup off of a nice cut down the lane. The earlier report about him talking and being demonstrative on defense was proven true. Outside of his initial playing time in the 1st, he didn't get back into the game until maybe the last 3 or 4 minutes of the 4th. He had a strong post up, and immediately called for the ball. Once he got it he backed his man down into the middle, and then made a good drop step move over his right shoulder and  scored the bucket.  

Edited June 11, 2018 by Catdaddyhorn

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Review from some guy who watched the game:

[Cameltoe 114]

How about a link to an actual box score?

[texasstrong12 4,668]

The minutes are being divided where everybody gets about 10-15 minutes a game. 

Hepa has 2 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, and 1 block in about 10 minutes of play. I didn't watch the first game but Hepa is the best rebounder on this US team based solely on watching this game. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Holy shit, 70-8 without conceding a point for 12+ minutes!

[texasstrong12 4,668]

There's been a lot of talk about Hepa being more a wing/stretch big on here. He might certainly be that but he's going to get minutes at the 5. 

He's really bulked up and he's dominating on the boards. 10 boards in 13 minutes of play. 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

I want him getting minutes at the 5 assuming we're doing it because it's working, and not out of desparation. I'd love to see

 

Coleman

Roach

Best Shooter

Sims

Hepa

 

and we run

[texasstrong12 4,668]

The US is playing Hepa at the 5. 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Hepa's final stat line: 

4 points (2/7 shooting), 11 rebounds (5 offensive), 2 assists, 2 blocks, 1 steal, 1 turnover in 18 minutes of play. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by texasstrong12

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Andrew Jones is working out with the team again. 

[immortal13 4,059]

32 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Andrew Jones is working out with the team again. 

Awesome to hear

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Great news.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

Also DO posted a shirtless photo on IG recently and he looks much better; easily in better shape than he was last season- my guess is still medication- it makes the most sense to me.

 

Im only going to say this once because I really, really, really don't want to get my hopes up-

 

Dulan could be good this year. I know- I said the same shit about EDJ. I said that her simply gone through a sophomore slump and that he would rebound as a junior to at least if not exceed his freshman performance- didn't happen. But DO actually does have some real skill, he just sucks during games- those of you who were on shaggy a decade ago will remember NWGS- Nervous White Guy Syndrome- every hooper alive knows a white guy or three who's Pete Maravich in the driveway and Dylan Osetkowski when the lights come on. This is how a guy with his skills can suck so bad.

I'm going to predict anything- I expect nothing more from DO than what I saw last year- but it could happen. I know that he can hoop if he wants to; but he has to really really want to. Based on mothijgmore than following him on IG I don't think he has that undying love for the game, that hunger, that passion- I think he'd rather watch Netflix with his chick than hoop, and I think that shows on game day. I don't think he has it mentally- I think he's soft. It's harsh, but it's my opinion. That said, I'm also if the opinion that if he cold somehow turn it on for games, forget the spotlight, and just hoop, that he could be a poor man's Georges Niang. Yes, I just said that.

 

Dylan, I've been drinking, and I swear to god that if you make me look bad here I will never forgive you. Connor Lammert 4 Lyfe. No Ragrets.

[ChickenSandwich 9,836]

Dylan was never that bad last season.  The role he was forced into was inefficient and didn't play to his strengths within the team.  With no other real options on offense, he was forced into the role and wore down as the season went on.  The talent and skills are clearly there if allowed to play to his comfort and usage level. 

We needed him to be the chucker last season.  He had the mental capacity to not be destroyed by the negative, ex. if you asked Roach to do the same thing you may break him.

DO took one for the team last year and got shit all over for it.  We were a better team with him on the floor vs not.  He is the most capable big man we have had not counting the one and dones in the last 4 years

Go big DO, hoping you have enough help to see what you really have

Edited June 13, 2018 by ChickenSandwich

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

10 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Dylan was never that bad last season.  The role he was forced into was inefficient and didn't play to the strengths of the team.  With no other real options on offense, he was forced into the role and wore down as the season went on.  The talent and skills are clearly there if allowed to play to his comfort level. 

We needed him to be the chucker last season.  He had the mental capacity to not be destroyed by the negative, ex. if you asked Roach to do the same thing you may break him.

DO took one for the team last year and got shit all over for it.  We were a better team with him on the floor vs not.

Go big DO, hoping you have enough help to see what you really have

The Duke game was the perfect illustration of this.  He still shot too many 3s, but his overall role in that game is what you want him to have.  Rewatching that game really gave me sense of what we missed out in losing Jones for the season.  Jones was a much better decision maker than I gave him credit for.  We probably win that game if not for 2 fouls Bamba picked up due horrible decisions by both Coleman and Dylan. One of Bamba's fouls came on the inexplicable decision by Coleman to go behind his back against the top of a 2/3 zone and the other bad foul came when Dylan tried to lob it to Bamba on a 2 on 1 in the lane.  Duke makes their run with Bamba on the bench nursing his foul trouble. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Catdaddyhorn

[texasstrong12 4,668]

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/06/hepa-feature.aspx

"Hepa said he mostly plays center for the national team with some time at forward, too."

Self on Hepa: 

“But, in the time that we’ve been together, I’ve been so impressed with his basketball IQ. I think he’s well beyond his years for most 18-year-olds. The more you coach him, the more you like him and the more you trust him. So, I certainly think he’ll have a big role on this team. I know that Texas will enjoy having him in their program.”

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by texasstrong12

[Cameltoe 114]

Well those are some pretty classy comments from Self. Looks like it's more likely Hepa's gonna be an instant contributor than not.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

6 minutes ago, Cameltoe said:

Well those are some pretty classy comments from Self. Looks like it's more likely Hepa's gonna be an instant contributor than not.

Right, because he got 11 rebounds in a game where his team was up 45-0 and had his coach said diplomatic things about him.

 

Reading between the lines it actually seems like he's going to need some work before he's a consistent contributor at Texas, which should be the expectations we have for essentially every freshman we ever sign. The people hitching their wagons need to the Hepa train need to slow down; there's nothing about this kid that, to this point, says that he deserves this much premature adulation. 

 

(Premtuare adulation, lol)

Edited June 14, 2018 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4,275]

There are lots of reasons for Texas fans to feel that way- the overwhelming majority of freshmen basketball players aren't consistent contributors. That's why they have an All-Newcomer Team instead of an All Freshman team within the conference. Hepa looks like he's going to be good at Texas, but the way his name is flying around with everyone insisting that he's going to be this guy we count on as a freshman is too much. The transition from Barrow>>Oregon>>Big XII is a tough one with a steep learning curve. Anyone who is *counting on* any of our freshmen to be a consistent contributor is setting themselves up for disappointment.