2018-19 Texas Longhorns thread

[cafe society 2840]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 4:51 PM, realgreggym said:

I'm not being rude to you but let me tell you what depressing really is. Its winning the conference the last game of the season, getting back to campus around midnight and the tower wasn't even lit. A couple of parents were so upset that they called DKR at home and demanded that the tower be lit orange. About 20 minutes later it was. That's depressing. Not some exhibition on a Wednesday when most students are focused on the football team having the season thats developing.

BTW, I just rechecked the email that the T Association had sent me an others and it said that only the first 3000 in line when the doors opened would be admitted on a first come basis. FWTW,

Wow, I never heard that story before, that sucks.  Do you think - if I am right on the season - that the slow start the team got off to had anything to do with it?

[realgreggym 832]

café, great question. Our slow start didn't play into this. We played one of the toughest non conference schedules in the country and with a couple of exceptions, most of the games were extremely competitive. The problem was DKR. He was a great football coach but as an AD, he could care less about us. He probably wouldn't have known that we were conference champs until the next morning when he went into his office. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

my dad has told me plenty of stories about that team and some of the other teams from that era. told me about texas playing in the ucla tournament, and after being down by about 15 at half time texas goes on a 7-0 run to start the second half, so wooden calls timeout, benches walton and the entire rest of the starting five, and ucla's backups proceeded to get the lead back up to 25+ in about five minutes.

he told me about how Larry Robinson was the last player cut by the Celtics who wanted to then send him over to Europe and call him back in a year or two. apparently Larry Robinson became something of a folk hero in Sweden, being this giant, black american basketball star in the land of blonde hair and pale skin, and when the C's called him back the next year he said, "no thanks, i've got it pretty made over here in sweden." he ended up marrying a swedish girl and making tons of money, and jedi really enjoyed living and playing in europe, sort of similar to travis mays' story.

he he told me a story about texas playing u of h, (i wanna day in the postseason), and u of h comes out pressing and is causing texas problems and the cougars have a decent lead. leon black (he was the coach then, right?) tells everyone to just get down the court and let harry larrabee bring the ball up and break the press by himself, which does. this changes the whole game, and texas goes on to win fairly handily. after the game (and apparently this is caught in camera), larrabee jogs over to dwight davis, a power forward for u of h, and extends his hand and says, "good game", to which davis replies, "fuck you." and larrabee is like, "sorry, what?" davis- "i said fuck you." lol, that one made me laugh. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Goo Punch

[realgreggym 832]

Your Dad is correct. He should have a lot of stories since he was part of the sports media back then.  Larry was drafted I believe in the 5th round but was the last cut because he had bad knees. He hurt his knee in our last non conference game against OU and missed his entire JR conference year. Came back the next year and was conference MVP. He was probably the best player in the SWC in the 70s. We recruited his brother Ronnie but ultimately he went to NMSU because he didn't want to be known as Larry's little brother. He did go to Sweden and as of a couple of years ago, he was still there and I hope that has lived and will continue to live a great life. He's a good guy.

As far as the UH story goes, that was the first round of the NCAAs and that game was in Las Cruces. That was literally a 1-16 battle. We had to win a playoff game I think against SMU to win the conference. UH was considered to be a final four team in Los Angeles I believe that year.. They had Dwight Jones and Dwight Davis who were both NBA lottery picks. The game started and we couldn't break their press. Jimmy Blacklock was our starting point guard but couldn't break their trap.

We were down by something like 11 points and Coach Black called a time out and put in Larrabee. Harry was probably 5'10 and slow as molasses but UH couldn't contain him. We fought our way back and near the end of the game if I remember, we took the lead. Near the end, there was a jump ball between Harry and either David or Jones. and damn if Harry doesn't get the tip. Robinson came up huge that game and out played the entire UH frontcourt on one leg. The rest is also true. I remember the media telling us that if we didn't go and just forfeited the game, the final score would be 2-0 instead of the ass whipping that UH was going to give us.

The lesson to be learned is that can never count out any team or any player because you don't know his heart . Any team on any given day can beat any other team and thats why you don't sell any opponent short.  Thats what UH did and they paid a big price.

[cafe society 2840]

My dad and I watched that game on our tenuous UHF antenna in Ft Worth.  Larry Robinson was a beast and if he had not had injury issues could have had a long, successful NBA career.  I remember his freshman year - when frosh weren't eligible for varsity - watching him torch TCU for I think 63 at Daniel Meyer after the varsity game.  And yes, Dwight Davis was a bitch after that game in Las Cruces, he said something to Larrabee and refused his handshake.  Ugly.  But my dad and I enjoyed that team tremendously.  Thanks, RGG.

[realgreggym 832]

café, Larry's freshman team had better attendance than the varsity did.. There were a couple of other kids on that frosh team that left school or the team would have been even better. Very few know that freshman were not eligible to play varsity until 72.

I would have loved to see Larry's high school team in Hobbs play the Wheatley teams in those years. No 3 point shot and no shot clock and yet those teams felt bad if they didn't score at least 100 every game.

[Goo Punch 4275]

yeah, i heard that robinson's high school in new mexico was ome of the 5 or so best ha basketball programs in the nation at the time, and that they would regularly score 100 in a game, which is just ridiculous. 

[Bitterwhiteguy 153]

21 hours ago, Lobo said:

The consensus seems to be from all the sites that Michigan State is markedly better than UCLA, not by a lot.  But noticeably better.  I'd like to think we'll upset UNC out of the gate in Las Vegas, but for those of us planning around family and the Kansas football game on T+1 Friday, I'm gonna assume it's us playing UCLA at 3:00p-CST, right after the Kansas football game ends actually.  

Something to consider: not everyone is factoring in the loss of two of UCLA's incoming freshmen to season-ending injuries. Shaq's son Shareef (heart surgery) and Tyger Campbell (ACL) were expected to contribute and are both out for the year. They're also going to be without a redshirt junior for the first couple months with a foot injury; this UCLA squad is going to be worse than many expect.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Bitterwhiteguy

[Braff Zacklin 13415]

These are great posts. Much better than the usual bickering and name calling. Genuinely appreciate the insights.

[Machinator 32097]

 

[HRSchenker 2259]

Are season tickets all digital now or will I receive physical tickets? Haven't seen anything in the mail.

[Machinator 32097]

BWG breaks down the backcourt: https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2018/10/22/17912900/the-2018-texas-backcourt-eli-long-courtney-ramey-andrew-jones-matt-coleman

[Blotto 23432]

Is BWG under the impression that if your jokes are absolutely not funny you need to use twice as many per article? 

[Bitterwhiteguy 153]

35 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Is BWG under the impression that if your jokes are absolutely not funny you need to use twice as many per article? 

The goal is triple, but it doesn't always work out.

[realgreggym 832]

café, since you seem to remember those prehistoric times, here's something that shows how strange recruiting can be. As mentioned Larry played at Hobbs NM which was a national power back in the day.  Coaches from all over the country descended on Hobbs but not to see Larry. Hobbs had a 6'9 white kid I think his name was Kyle Williams who every one wanted. Our coaches go to see Kyle and they see this skinny black kid who was unstoppable. All the other coaches were infatuated by Williams. Our coaches started recruiting Larry and since I believe he was born in Lampasas, he had no problem coming to Austin.

Kyle wound up going to Kansas State and played for the legendary Jack Hartman. Johnny Moore is another great story.

[PantsTent 2002]

5 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

Are season tickets all digital now or will I receive physical tickets? Haven't seen anything in the mail.

Don't think so.  But yeah, seems they usually arrive by now.

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

this is good exposure:

 

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[SA-KC_Horn 1293]

So basically we're dooooomed this upcoming season.

I've neglected basketball since the end of our tournament run. What am I missing this season that we are being rated so low? I am assuming because the lack of an inside presence?

 

[Machinator 32097]

1 minute ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

So basically we're dooooomed this upcoming season.

I've neglected basketball since the end of our tournament run. What am I missing this season that we are being rated so low? I am assuming because the lack of an inside presence?

 

I don't put too much stock into subjective preseason rankings (note that KenPom loves Texas), but from an outsider's perspective, we're essentially running it back minus a top 5 NBA draft pick (and with Andrew Jones' status still up in the air) while adding a freshman class that doesn't have any obvious day-1 star talent.

[Machinator 32097]

3 minutes ago, Cashcar said:

Agree on not putting too much stock into the rankings. I do like the KenPom is high on us though. Personally, I think Hepa classifies as freshman star talent. He was elite in the Pacific NW hoops scene his final two years of HS. I think he gets a lower ranking than deserved based on his early years in Alaska. He brings alot of skill to the table, and I am expecting him to play important minutes this year. I tend to agree with BWG’s review of our frontcount, and his opinion on Hepa as a player. 

Also I thik Eli Long being eligible to play is going to be very helpful. He will take some pressure off Coleman at PG from time to time and shot 38% from 3 at Mount St. Mary’s his sophomore season. If Andrew Jones, by mid-season can play at 75% of his former self (while maintaining his outstanding 3 point shooting), Texas has a high quality guard rotation.

I can see it with Hepa (I'm a huge fan of him as a prospect and multi-year player), but I'd like to see how he holds up on defense and how quickly his shooting translates to the college game. What we've seen with our two standout frontcourt signees under Shaka is that they were able to make an impact on defense immediately due to their freakish physical talent before their offensive game eventually developed by the time conference play came around.

And yeah, the guard rotation is good, with both depth and experience. This roster sets up nicely for a run if we can find some consistent shooting.

[Goo Punch 4275]

15 minutes ago, Cashcar said:

Agree on not putting too much stock into the rankings. I do like the KenPom is high on us though. Personally, I think Hepa classifies as freshman star talent. He was elite in the Pacific NW hoops scene his final two years of HS. I think he gets a lower ranking than deserved based on his early years in Alaska. He brings alot of skill to the table, and I am expecting him to play important minutes this year. I tend to agree with BWG’s review of our frontcount, and his opinion on Hepa as a player. 

Also I thik Eli Long being eligible to play is going to be very helpful. He will take some pressure off Coleman at PG from time to time and shot 38% from 3 at Mount St. Mary’s his sophomore season. If Andrew Jones, by mid-season can play at 75% of his former self (while maintaining his outstanding 3 point shooting), Texas has a high quality guard rotation.

yep. this season is more about coaching than any other. shaka's best season at Texas we had a deep, talented team with a similar makeup to this one. I still question whether or not this team has more talent (Ridley, Ibeh, Lammert > Sims, DO, bench, and Taylor, Felix, EDJ, Roach, Holland, Yancy > this year's guards w/o Jones), but these are Shaka's guys and the bulk of ourajor contributors have been playing together for awhile now. I don't think I could justify ranking Texas anywhere near where KenPom has ya (which as catdaddy pointed out is a bit skewed because their computers are counting Jones as a fully healthy player), but i could see us reaching that high by season's end.

 

also, great avatar. who is it? 

[Goo Punch 4275]

14 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I can see it with Hepa (I'm a huge fan of him as a prospect and multi-year player), but I'd like to see how he holds up on defense and how quickly his shooting translates to the college game. What we've seen with our two standout frontcourt signees under Shaka is that they were able to make an impact on defense immediately due to their freakish physical talent before their offensive game eventually developed by the time conference play came around.

And yeah, the guard rotation is good, with both depth and experience. This roster sets up nicely for a run if we can find some consistent shooting.

agree with you re: Hepa. he's got all the talent in the world, but it'll take him a year of experience and physical growth before he's able to consistently be a contributor. I could see him becoming an All American by the time he's done here, and the idea of him and Hayes being together for 3+ years sounds great. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

[realgreggym 832]

16 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

I need to lend him my burnt orange tie.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

17 hours ago, realgreggym said:

I need to lend him my burnt orange tie.

he'd only need it for another year

[Machinator 32097]

 

[cafe society 2840]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 10:23 AM, SwanderedTalent said:

he'd only need it for another year

Horseshit.  Unless the team completely shits the bed this year, he will be here at least through 2019-2020.  CDC isn't one to make snap judgements, he will want to evaluate Shaka longer than that.

[Goo Punch 4275]

6 minutes ago, cafe society said:

Horseshit.  Unless the team completely shits the bed this year, he will be here at least through 2019-2020.  CDC isn't one to make snap judgements, he will want to evaluate Shaka longer than that.

we really really need to make some statements this year. become a legit top 25 team, finish top 3/win 12+ games in conference play, win at least one tournament game, and most of  all become a team that is unquestionably competent/proficient offensively.

your premise is that cdc is too sharp to let shaka go after having only been the ad for two years. i have a different take. i think that cdc is sharp enough to make a move if, say a billy donovan became available and shaka was still failing to take care of the above criteria. shaka is fine as long as he takes care of that stuff, but to act like he's untouchable or something is wrong. he can't afford to keep signing highly rated recruiting classes while producing mediocre/disappointing results year after year. he hasn't done anything of import in three years at texas. that has to change. 

[cafe society 2840]

All I am saying is that I know how CDC operates, and unless we tank, Shaka won't get fired after this season.  You are debating what should happen;  I am saying what will happen, IMO, of course.  

[Goo Punch 4275]

25 minutes ago, cafe society said:

All I am saying is that I know how CDC operates, and unless we tank, Shaka won't get fired after this season.  You are debating what should happen;  I am saying what will happen, IMO, of course.  

no, no i'm not. i'm very clearly talking about what i think cdc would do if we were once again mediocre and the right name was available. because what *should* happen is we *should* have fired him already and backed up the brinks truck for donovan, hoiberg, or musselman, or anyone else who cdc thinks can actually get the job done. 

it's still crazy to me that there are so many people like you who talk about shaka like he's not been an epic disappointment so far. we fired rick barnes who *never* had a three year stretch even close to this bad, keeping in mind that shaka's best year by a mile was with rick's players. hell, let's be real, forget his w/l record, and throw out all of the excuses about injuries- you have to go all the way back to bob weltlich to find a team as utterly incompetent as our last two. if shaka were the head football coach and had two seasons as pathetic as these last two (so something like 3-9 followed by 6-6 with a loss to a mountain west team in a third rate bowl game) he'd be burned in effigy and cursed at in public, and yet our fans coddle and protect him like he's your child or something. it's totally mystifying, and we do not need to "tank" for shaka to be fired. another mediocre season and his seat is very hot. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Goo Punch

[cafe society 2840]

I haven't offered up an opinion on Shaka, only on what I believe CDC will do in the short-term.  Shaka has been an enormous disappointment to me and wasn't on the short list of coaches I preferred when Barnes was fired.

[Goo Punch 4275]

fair enough. i shouldn't have assumed your position on shaka based on the sentiments of others.

[Red Five 40652]

We'd need a repeat of 2016 for Smart to be fired and even that might not do it. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

40 minutes ago, Red Five said:

We'd need a repeat of 2016 for Smart to be fired and even that might not do it. 

why? why do you believe shaka smart is untouchable? i'm not saying that he will definitely get fired with another mediocre season, especially considering the dearth of available candidates who would actually take the job. but you don't believe that there's any scenario where we underperform again and the trigger gets pulled with the right candidate available? what if musselman takes nevada to the final four this year while texas finishes 6th in the league and goes one-and-done in the tourney. nevada loses everyone after this season, and musselman is just about the only college coach available who qualifies for the job and who would actually leave where he's currently at. in that scenario you say there's a 0% chance we make the move? what if billy donovan or fred hoiberg is available? 0% chance? i disagree.

[vin2basketball 10]

4 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

no, no i'm not. i'm very clearly talking about what i think cdc would do if we were once again mediocre and the right name was available. because what *should* happen is we *should* have fired him already and backed up the brinks truck for donovan, hoiberg, or musselman, or anyone else who cdc thinks can actually get the job done. 

it's still crazy to me that there are so many people like you who talk about shaka like he's not been an epic disappointment so far. we fired rick barnes who *never* had a three year stretch even close to this bad, keeping in mind that shaka's best year by a mile was with rick's players. hell, let's be real, forget his w/l record, and throw out all of the excuses about injuries- you have to go all the way back to bob weltlich to find a team as utterly incompetent as our last two. if shaka were the head football coach and had two seasons as pathetic as these last two (so something like 3-9 followed by 6-6 with a loss to a mountain west team in a third rate bowl game) he'd be burned in effigy and cursed at in public, and yet our fans coddle and protect him like he's your child or something. it's totally mystifying, and we do not need to "tank" for shaka to be fired. another mediocre season and his seat is very hot. 

So 2016 was def bad - but you consider the 2017 team worse than 2012-13 when we went 16-18 and lost to fucking Chaminade? Worse than Penders' last year when we went 14-17. Or 92-93 when we went 11-17?

Last year's team had it's share of struggles sure and there are micro level things that were bad decisions (not putting in Sims against Duke or against anyone till Bamba went down, etc), but the context of an NBA-prospect shooting guard (and basically our only good 3 point shooter) going down has to give some margin for error.

Texas isn't a Kansas/Kentucky/Duke type program that can just survive the loss of their best offensive player without a hitch. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 minute ago, vin2basketball said:

So 2016 was def bad - but you consider the 2017 team worse than 2012-13 when we went 16-18 and lost to fucking Chaminade? Worse than Penders' last year when we went 14-17. Or 92-93 when we went 11-17?

Last year's team had it's share of struggles sure and there are micro level things that were bad decisions (not putting in Sims against Duke or against anyone till Bamba went down, etc), but the context of an NBA-prospect shooting guard (and basically our only good 3 point shooter) going down has to give some margin for error.

Texas isn't a Kansas/Kentucky/Duke type program that can just survive the loss of their best offensive player without a hitch. 

i agree for the most part. injuries have hit shaka's teams especially hard for whatever reason. it's a legitimate factor when taking out performance into account. but it doesn't excuse the sheer inept nature of our teams the last two years. last year wasn't as shambolic as the year before, but the basketball acumen of our team as a whole was just terrible.

i will say though that you are right that the 2012-13 team qualifies as an equally inept team. i must have erased them from my memory as i was racking my brain for ineptitude. what that team and our recent teams have in common is that the talent on the roster was way too good for us to have been so terrible. two total traveshamockeries.

[vin2basketball 10]

3 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

why? why do you believe shaka smart is untouchable? i'm not saying that he will definitely get fired with another mediocre season, especially considering the dearth of available candidates who would actually take the job. but you don't believe that there's any scenario where we underperform again and the trigger gets pulled with the right candidate available? what if musselman takes nevada to the final four this year while texas finishes 6th in the league and goes one-and-done in the tourney. nevada loses everyone after this season, and musselman is just about the only college coach available who qualifies for the job and who would actually leave where he's currently at. in that scenario you say there's a 0% chance we make the move? what if billy donovan or fred hoiberg is available? 0% chance? i disagree.

That being said I do agree with this. If and only if there is a great option out there, and if and only if Texas does not win 21-22 regular season games and 1+ tourney games or more tourney games with fewer regular season wins then I could see CDC make the move

[vin2basketball 10]

1 minute ago, Goo Punch said:

i agree for the most part. injuries have hit shaka's teams especially hard for whatever reason. it's a legitimate factor when taking out performance into account. but it doesn't excuse the sheer inept nature of our teams the last two years. last year wasn't as shambolic as the year before, but the basketball acumen of our team as a whole was just terrible.

 i will say though that you are right that the 2012-13 team qualifies as an equally inept team. i must have erased them from my memory as i was racking my brain for ineptitude. what that team and our recent teams have in common is that the talent on the roster was way too good for us to have been so terrible. two total traveshamockeries.

I do think he's dumb for running a read and react offensive system - it's great for creating NBA prospects and less so for actually scoring points in the college game. 

I think it sort of works if you have elite, NBA one-and-done prospect guard who can shoot or an experienced guard who has drilled in the system for ages (Isaiah Taylor was in his first season in the system and Javan Felix was.... limited). You also need shooters off the ball.

I disagree with the choice of the system - in the college game it reduces your margin for error because it requires you to either recruit at an insanely high level or develop across multiple years and then hit the pot of gold in your tourney run once every 3-4 years.

It also requires you to consistently roll out an elite defense which Shaka has done so far at Texas so I'll assume for a second he can continue to maintain that

This season with Coleman and his year in the system on ball, Long, Roach, (fingers crossed) AJ1, Febres?, and Osetkowski spacing him with an athletic rim runner in Sims he may finally (again knock on wood) have the offensive personnel to make his system work and Texas *could* have a big season.

But even there I wish he didn't run this system - it gives him no margin for error if those "shooters" don't turn out be league average or if Coleman stops hitting long twos at an unsustainable rate etc. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

39 minutes ago, vin2basketball said:

So 2016 was def bad - but you consider the 2017 team worse than 2012-13 when we went 16-18 and lost to fucking Chaminade? Worse than Penders' last year when we went 14-17. Or 92-93 when we went 11-17?

Last year's team had it's share of struggles sure and there are micro level things that were bad decisions (not putting in Sims against Duke or against anyone till Bamba went down, etc), but the context of an NBA-prospect shooting guard (and basically our only good 3 point shooter) going down has to give some margin for error.

Texas isn't a Kansas/Kentucky/Duke type program that can just survive the loss of their best offensive player without a hitch. 

You mean Banks. Sims fouled out that game. 

[vin2basketball 10]

1 minute ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

You mean Banks. Sims fouled out that game. 

I do mean Banks - good catch

[Machinator 32097]

2 hours ago, vin2basketball said:

I do think he's dumb for running a read and react offensive system - it's great for creating NBA prospects and less so for actually scoring points in the college game. 

I think it sort of works if you have elite, NBA one-and-done prospect guard who can shoot or an experienced guard who has drilled in the system for ages (Isaiah Taylor was in his first season in the system and Javan Felix was.... limited). You also need shooters off the ball.

I disagree with the choice of the system - in the college game it reduces your margin for error because it requires you to either recruit at an insanely high level or develop across multiple years and then hit the pot of gold in your tourney run once every 3-4 years.

It also requires you to consistently roll out an elite defense which Shaka has done so far at Texas so I'll assume for a second he can continue to maintain that

This season with Coleman and his year in the system on ball, Long, Roach, (fingers crossed) AJ1, Febres?, and Osetkowski spacing him with an athletic rim runner in Sims he may finally (again knock on wood) have the offensive personnel to make his system work and Texas *could* have a big season.

But even there I wish he didn't run this system - it gives him no margin for error if those "shooters" don't turn out be league average or if Coleman stops hitting long twos at an unsustainable rate etc. 

I think the idea is that at Texas, we have the capability to recruit at a level such that that telling players "we play offense like NBA" is a compelling enough pitch to land those sorts of prospects. What we really needed were transfers who could bridge the gap between the departure of Taylor/Felix and when Shaka's prized recruit (Coleman) was ready to lead the offense.

And  yes, the shooting is probably the bigger issue. It needs to improve this year or, quite simply, we're not going to achieve our program goals.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Machinator

[Machinator 32097]

Might be worth starting a separate "predictions and expectations" poll thread, but I think it's very fair to expect a top 4 finish in conference with at least one tournament win. Looking at the previous five seasons that would put us in the neighborhood of 22-23 total regular season wins and 10-11 conference wins, which is quite reasonable. For all our faults last season, coaching or otherwise, if Andrew Jones doesn't have cancer, we reach those win totals.